When will the Sway be fixed?

[gibonez 3633]

The idea that you can find two identical weapons in the game and have one of them perform randomly greatly worse than the other one is a shitty game mechanic that has no place in DayZ. 

 

Guess what that is how real life works. although the variances in a bad rifle and a bad rifle among newer production guns is very small.

 

A top shootng hunting rifle for example will group  sub 1 moa while a poorly machined one within the same rifle line might group at 2 moa its only a difference of 2 inches.

 

However for something like a Mosin that accuracy varies alot.

[Rags! 1966]

Guess what? 

 

It's a video game. Real life isn't a video game. Not everything in real life belongs in a video game, and having rifles of the same condition and make vary greatly in accuracy is not a real life truth that should make its way into Chernarus. 

 

You can try and dress up shitty mechanics all you'd like under a pretense of "realism" but at the end of the day to have somebody simply happen to grab the short end of the stick without even telling them until it's too late is just bad game design. 

 

Let us hope that you never aspire to the career of a video game designer or producer. Or perhaps there is a market for games where there is a dice roll with every step you take that could cause you to fall and break your character's leg. You could make that game.

 

Every step you take, dice roll for ankle damage. 

 

Your character might just be wandering around and catch malaria because they got bit by a mosquito. Dice roll every ten seconds for malaria mosquitos.

 

Let's have another random dice roll for if you have diabetes and require insulin as well. Diabetics won't be too well off in the apocalypse. Dice roll for diabetes upon spawning.

 

The game isn't real enough, yet. No, we have to go further. There's a dice roll every single time you fire a weapon as well. Guns can jam in real life. Even pristine ones. Dice roll for weapon malfunction. 

 

That is...assuming your ammunition even works. You know sometimes those pesky things just won't fire off. Dice roll for ammunition malfunction. 

 

So really, it's not about who's the overall better player. The other guy killed you because his gun randomly was better than your identical gun. He just got the better dice roll. He wins. You lose. That's life. Too bad.

 

 It's not about who is sneakier, smarter, more skilled, more intuitive, more clever...it's really about who has the luckiest dice. 

[xalienax 621]

Guess what that is how real life works. although the variances in a bad rifle and a bad rifle among newer production guns is very small.

 

A top shootng hunting rifle for example will group  sub 1 moa while a poorly machined one within the same rifle line might group at 2 moa its only a difference of 2 inches.

 

However for something like a Mosin that accuracy varies alot.

I'm not really sure how bad some of the 'peak wartime production' rifles were. i have heard stories of parts not fitting other rifles because they were so poorly made. on the other hand my own 91/30 (dated to 1939) performs quite well. even at 200yds fired by someone with no formal training what so ever. the two other mosin rifles i have had to opportunity to fire on the range one date unknown, and the other 1943; neither were markedly 'better' or 'worse' then mine. the only noteworthy difference in the 1943 (that i could discern) was a less finely finished stock and the butt-plate has some weirdness around the edges as if it had been stamped or just poorly finished (could be damage over the years too i suppose?)

 

admittedly my knowledge of the exact production methods is a bit lacking (and btw if you have any sites that have actually good in-depth information that'd be really cool too)

[gibonez 3633]

I'm not really sure how bad some of the 'peak wartime production' rifles were. i have heard stories of parts not fitting other rifles because they were so poorly made. on the other hand my own 91/30 (dated to 1939) performs quite well. even at 200yds fired by someone with no formal training what so ever. the two other mosin rifles i have had to opportunity to fire on the range one date unknown, and the other 1943; neither were markedly 'better' or 'worse' then mine. the only noteworthy difference in the 1943 (that i could discern) was a less finely finished stock and the butt-plate has some weirdness around the edges as if it had been stamped or just poorly finished (could be damage over the years too i suppose?)

 

admittedly my knowledge of the exact production methods is a bit lacking (and btw if you have any sites that have actually good in-depth information that'd be really cool too)

 

Well the quality of war time production Mosins did vary dramatically due to how swiftly they were needed and the availability of parts but one other huge factor to add into why the mosins accuracy would vary substantially is time.

 

Say that you have 10  sks rifles or 10 mosins and you have 10 different people shoot them over the course of 40 years those rifles will all be in different condition especially when you factor in that these rifles typically fire corrosive ammo.

 

 

A variance in accuracy for weapons especially military surplus weapons and older military weapons makes sense and is realistic.

 

End result is each weapon pickup has more personality.

[xalienax 621]

Well the quality of war time production Mosins did vary dramatically due to how swiftly they were needed and the availability of parts but one other huge factor to add into why the mosins accuracy would vary substantially is time.

 

Say that you have 10  sks rifles or 10 mosins and you have 10 different people shoot them over the course of 40 years those rifles will all be in different condition especially when you factor in that these rifles typically fire corrosive ammo.

 

 

A variance in accuracy for weapons especially military surplus weapons and older military weapons makes sense and is realistic.

 

End result is each weapon pickup has more personality.

Indeed i would like to see less 'pristine' weapons about. that said the variation between 2 'pristine' weapons or 2 'worn' weapons (or any 2 weapons of the same 'condition status') should be fairly small - but the variation between a pristine and a worn makes a lot of sense. 

 

Im OK with small variations that make sense realistically. accurate-to life ballistics would be win IMHO. even on current era fire arms, if you take 2 brand new guns and fire them into 2 targets under identical situations (such as from bench in an indoor range) you can still see slight variations in the grouping. now within the ranges that given weapon is designed to engage within, this would typically be a non-issue, but it does me trying to engage at the outer limits of it's effective range may become problematic. especially as you said in the case of a surplus military weapon that could have seen decades of use and been subjected to all kinds of conditions and perhaps poorly maintained.

 

and this last one, directed at other posts in this thread- the mosin is NOT a sniper rifle. it wasn't originally built/designed as a sniper rifle. it was designed to be a robust and reliable weapon that the average infantryman could learn to use quickly and be effective with at mid range and also to remain operable/not sieze in the freezing Russian winter. yes there were variants fitted with scopes at the factory, but this does not changes the fact that the base rifle was never originally intended for the precision and consistency typically expected of a 'sniper' weapon.

[gibonez 3633]

Indeed i would like to see less 'pristine' weapons about. that said the variation between 2 'pristine' weapons or 2 'worn' weapons (or any 2 weapons of the same 'condition status') should be fairly small - but the variation between a pristine and a worn makes a lot of sense. 

 

 

Yea so long as it sticks to reality the variations would be fine.

 

However if such a system is added hopefully simply using a weapon repair kit does not automatically make the weapon a super accurate weapon.

 

Ideally I would like two statuses for weapons. Weapon condition and Weapon cleanliness.

 

Weapon condition refers to non changeable mechanical condition of the firearm , things like pitted barrels , bad rifling affecting the weapons ultimate accuracy

Cleanliness referring how dirty the firearm is with dirty guns losing accuracy but a cleaning kit fixes that.

[rybec 339]

Just because your particular mosin is accurate does not mean most are.

Of course, but the general view on them is that they're an awful rifle that's poorly made and fit only for a slav potato farmer.

I like to show that good ones exist. It's like saying Norinco or Century Arms products are awful when you can have very good examples and very poor examples. My mosin just happens to be from a time when you wanted to produce as fast as possible to meet logistic requirements.

[SaveMeJebus 164]

Every little life detail doesn't need to be simulated in game and its stupid to assume it ever will be.  Some people would be content to add so much BS the game would actually be more of a chore to (do I dare say) play.  Anyways, back to the OP there is a definite pattern in the sway that one can get a feel for after a bit but I too hope they tame it down eventually.

[therandomredstone 432]

After more things are added to the game like stamina, and such.. There will be a lot to determine whether or not your aim should be steady. For instance, if you haven't really moved for the past two hours (like hanging out at green mountain on DayZRP ;) ) and you are nice and toasty, well fed, haven't seen a zed in awhile.. Then your aim would be amazingly steady. But if it's night.. and you just killed a zed, ran 300 meters to a shed in a field, and can't seem to get a fire starting.. Then you could say that any "visit" from human or undead.. could easily place the odds against you.

[Whyherro123 2283]

Guess what? 

 

It's a video game. Real life isn't a video game. Not everything in real life belongs in a video game, and having rifles of the same condition and make vary greatly in accuracy is not a real life truth that should make its way into Chernarus. 

 

You can try and dress up shitty mechanics all you'd like under a pretense of "realism" but at the end of the day to have somebody simply happen to grab the short end of the stick without even telling them until it's too late is just bad game design. 

 

Let us hope that you never aspire to the career of a video game designer or producer. Or perhaps there is a market for games where there is a dice roll with every step you take that could cause you to fall and break your character's leg. You could make that game.

 

Every step you take, dice roll for ankle damage. 

 

Your character might just be wandering around and catch malaria because they got bit by a mosquito. Dice roll every ten seconds for malaria mosquitos.

 

Let's have another random dice roll for if you have diabetes and require insulin as well. Diabetics won't be too well off in the apocalypse. Dice roll for diabetes upon spawning.

 

The game isn't real enough, yet. No, we have to go further. There's a dice roll every single time you fire a weapon as well. Guns can jam in real life. Even pristine ones. Dice roll for weapon malfunction. 

 

That is...assuming your ammunition even works. You know sometimes those pesky things just won't fire off. Dice roll for ammunition malfunction. 

 

So really, it's not about who's the overall better player. The other guy killed you because his gun randomly was better than your identical gun. He just got the better dice roll. He wins. You lose. That's life. Too bad.

 

 It's not about who is sneakier, smarter, more skilled, more intuitive, more clever...it's really about who has the luckiest dice. 

1) If you are sprinting through a grass-covered/root-strewn field or hillside, then yes, you should have the possibility to sprain/break your ankle. Don't want that to happen? Walk. Easy fix, and it just might slow down the constantly-sprinting playerbase.

 

2) Don't want to catch malaria (even though malaria is mostly a tropical/semi-tropical disease)? Stay out of the swamps, and stay within/impregnate your clothing with campfire smoke, or use bugspray. I do agree with  you on this, however.

 

3) In reality, those with chronic diseases requiring regular medication would be among the first to die. Sad but true. So, your point is not very applicable to Day Z, especially if the game takes place even a couple of months 'after the end", as insulin has to be kept refrigerated. 

 

4) Yes, firearms jam, which I would LOVE to see implemented. To avoid this, fire in semi-auto or short bursts, and clean your weapon regularly.

 

5)Yeah, and? It is realistic. Sometimes you just get a shit draw. Pull the charging handle and try again. Problem solved.

 

Remember, Day Z was originally intended to be the "anti-game". The devs are trying for as much realism as possible, and "authenticity" when not. Sprinting everywhere, with fully-automatic-firearms-that-never-jam blazing? Not all that authentic.

[Whyherro123 2283]

The mosin was actually weapon of choice for quite a few snipers in WW2 (not western forces) and of course there is going to be variation between trigger/bore/bolt action out of any guns but I thought that is what the weapon condition in game covered.   If you think technology and age are the main determining factor for any weapons accuracy your definitely mistaken.

The Soviet doctrine called them "snipers", but they were actually more like modern day "Designated Marksmen".

 

Designated Marksmen usually use an accurized version of their countries Service rifle, fitted with various optics, and operate as a member of their squad/unit, as opposed to a sniper that uses a personalized and purpose-built bolt-action, and operates from a fixed location and with a specially-trained spotter.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Designated_marksman

[Knight_Solaire 4]

I realize that its a video game; but unless you've done anything even remotely related to combat shooting then you should please just stop talking.

 

The sway is actually pretty damn good in my opinion.

 

Your breathing plays a huge factor in shooting (accurately anyway). I challenge any of you to load up with the same amount of gear that your player is carrying into a real life scenario. Sprint 50 yards and then attempt to maintain a 6 inch shot group at 100 yards. I'd be willing to bet money that you couldn't.

Edited March 16, 2015 by Knight_Solaire

[Dagwood 680]

I realize that its a video game; but unless you've done anything even remotely related to combat shooting then you should please just stop talking.

The sway is actually pretty damn good in my opinion.

Your breathing plays a huge factor in shooting (accurately anyway). I challenge any of you to load up with the same amount of gear that your player is carrying into a real life scenario. Sprint 50 yards and then attempt to maintain a 6 inch shot group at 100 yards. I'd be willing to bet money that you couldn't.

I'll bet money on that

[aasand 92]

 

The game isn't real enough, yet. No, we have to go further. There's a dice roll every single time you fire a weapon as well. Guns can jam in real life. Even pristine ones. Dice roll for weapon malfunction. 

 

That is...assuming your ammunition even works. You know sometimes those pesky things just won't fire off. Dice roll for ammunition malfunction.

Do want! Damaged weapons, mags and ammunitions should have a chance of jamming.

Edited March 16, 2015 by aasand

[lucianpin 80]

hi

im just wondering

i'm not sure if it is intentional for the ridiculous sway or not but i find its almost impossible to become completely still while using a gun anymore

and if it isn't intentional when will this be fixed? because its pretty hard to kill anybody with the weird sway 

Thanks

just buy at least 3200 DPI mouse and lower sensitivity to 0.121... from the file settings and you will be amazed how you can compensate for the weapons sway.

[Finchtastic 50]

I think it's by design, I mean.. who can realistically hold a perfectly straight and still aim? without aid of a bipod or mounting the weapon stationary? especially after exercise such as running or even under intense fear of something ravaging you to death. Willing to bet you or anyone for that matter, would not be able to hold a steady aim.

 

Yes it's a game and people always use that "but games aint real life" card, that's fair enough I guess.. however in this case, on this game.. I would prefer that aiming and shooting, especially with magnified scopes to be hard to do.

Have you ever ran a competition drill?  People do that all the time.

[NuckFuts 265]

Have you ever ran a competition drill?  People do that all the time.

 

You got me fella, I don't even know what a competition drill is  :lol:

 

I could guess, but I would probably be wrong, please feel free to enlighten me.

[Rags! 1966]

Do want! Damaged weapons, mags and ammunitions should have a chance of jamming.

 

Damaged ones, yes. Pristine/worn weapons and ammunition should never jam, as this give the player the incentive to keep his gear in as optimal a state he can. 

[Whyherro123 2283]

Damaged ones, yes. Pristine/worn weapons and ammunition should never jam, as this give the player the incentive to keep his gear in as optimal a state he can. 

Nope. Automatic weapons should still have a chance to jam, especially when fired in fully-cyclic fashion. Should "pristine" gear have a lower chance of jamming, due to the weapon being cleaner? Of course. But there should never be a jam-free firearm, unless the weapon is literally incapable of jamming, like a break-open double-barrel shotgun or a revolver.

 

So, it should feasibly go (in order of jam "potentiality", from lowest to highest. Factor in firearm "condition" and the chances for jams/malfunctions increases):

• jam free firearms: double barrel shotgun, revolver, Longhorn, Blaze (due to the ammunition either not being "cycled" by the firearm, or being extracted by the user as opposed to automatic action)
• user-dependent firearms: double-barrel shotgun, all bolt-action firearms, lever action repeater (the "cycling" and extraction of cartridges is prompted by the user, through muscle action)
• Automatic firearms fired on semi-auto: all automatic pistols, all assault rifles, all SMGs, the Sporter, etc (the weapon automatically cycles in fresh cartridges and extracts spent ones. This means the process can be impeded by gas/deposit buildup)
• Automatic firearms fired on full-auto: as above, but taken up to eleven.

NOTE: jams aren't really the end of the world. You just yank the charging handle to eject the jammed round, or, failing that, remove the magazine, eject the jammed round, and load the magazine again. And if you want to severely lessen the chances of jamming in the first place, clean your firearm regularly and fire in semi-auto or short bursts rather than "spray n' pray". Problem solved, with numerous nods to realism and authenticity.

[gibonez 3633]

Heck even bolt actions jam.

 

Would be nice if a bad conditioned mosin got a sticky bolt and the player could not eject the round until he right clicked the weapon and and animation played with him banging the bolt to release it.

[SaveMeJebus 164]

The Soviet doctrine called them "snipers", but they were actually more like modern day "Designated Marksmen".

 

Designated Marksmen usually use an accurized version of their countries Service rifle, fitted with various optics, and operate as a member of their squad/unit, as opposed to a sniper that uses a personalized and purpose-built bolt-action, and operates from a fixed location and with a specially-trained spotter.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Designated_marksman

Yes I realize this all, and one of the soviets with the highest kill count did so with nothing more than iron sights yet he was referred to frequently as a "Sniper" It's just stupid to split hairs about what to call something at the dawn of its own age ..... they were the snipers of THAT time, that is what there was.  I'm sure no actual military sniper would shit on their own heritage by calling any of the people from that day anything BUT sniper unless they were too arrogant for their own good.  Hell, the movie Enemy at the gates is about a mosin carrying sniper

 

**and now u made me derail the thread again  :P  SORRY

Edited March 16, 2015 by SaveMeJebus

[rybec 339]

I challenge any of you to load up with the same amount of gear that your player is carrying into a real life scenario. Sprint 50 yards and then attempt to maintain a 6 inch shot group at 100 yards. I'd be willing to bet money that you couldn't.

You got me.

I'll admit right now I wouldn't be able to stand carrying an oversized hiking pack filled with bags of rice, multiple vests and sets of clothing with anything you can think of stuffed into the pockets stuffed into more clothing and vests with an equivalent of a spam can of rifle ammunition thrown around inside (all this on my back)

with ammunition and first aid kids stuffed into my pants and yet another vest that I'm actually wearing with more ammunition bulging from the pockets, a fire axe on my back, maybe some more bags of rice inside of my vest somehow, a helmet and some soaked boots.

I'm sure I've missed things.

[sockem123 6]

IMO that huge, circular weapon sway is stupid and shouldn't happen like it does

But of course, it's still a WIP

Edited March 17, 2015 by Sockem123

[Jex 1104]

I think it's by design, I mean.. who can realistically hold a perfectly straight and still aim? without aid of a bipod or mounting the weapon stationary? especially after exercise such as running or even under intense fear of something ravaging you to death. Willing to bet you or anyone for that matter, would not be able to hold a steady aim.

 

Yes it's a game and people always use that "but games aint real life" card, that's fair enough I guess.. however in this case, on this game.. I would prefer that aiming and shooting, especially with magnified scopes to be hard to do.

 

Those guys who ski for a hundred miles can! They do it in the Olympics.

[Jex 1104]

I disagree, nothing feels worse in an FPS than dying because of RNG.

 

So you disagree with bullet dispersion even though it happens in RL?