Sacagawea 1 Posted February 12, 2015 (edited) So right now there is this massive gap between civilian weapons and military ones. Many people go from Mosin to AK very quickly, and there is no real system in place to prevent that, besides other players, which can easily be avoided by going to a low pop server. So i say we flush out the "police" tier. Right now there is one weapon which exclusively spawns at police stations, the mp 5, and that is awesome. The problem is there is only the one, and its so rare that mostly civilian guns spawn in these buildings. If instead we changed it so that police stations spawned specifically police guns (sks, mp5, pump shotty, new shotguns, new smgs, new pistols, etc.) which were in between military and civilian we could have a nice transition from, for example, a sporter to an ump 45 to an m4. This would add a nice curve, civilian to police to military. The problem would then be getting people to follow it, and not go right for military bases. So to counter that we would need to add more police building, a police headquarters (the tower in novo?) some new prisons, maybe change the civilian barracks into a police one, and then crank up the amount of zombies at military bases as much as the game can handle. That way a lone fresh spawn with an ax cant waltz into northwest and grab all the loot his little heart could ever desire just by going to an empty server. This would require some time as the zombie spawning systems are very early on still. I do recognize this idea is somewhat similar to the "security" gear thread but I think this post fleshes it out more, as its own distinct tier and not just a few new weapons. Edited February 12, 2015 by Sacagawea Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rags! 1966 Posted February 12, 2015 Many people go from Mosin to AK very quickly, and there is no real system in place to prevent that Yes there is. Private Shard servers. Where you can't server hop for the best gear without competition. Plus, you have to find both a magazine and the matching AK for it. In the weeks that I've played exclusively on private shard servers, I have come across a single Kalashnikov report in the distance. Just one. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sacagawea 1 Posted February 12, 2015 Yes there is. Private Shard servers. Where you can't server hop for the best gear without competition. Plus, you have to find both a magazine and the matching AK for it. In the weeks that I've played exclusively on private shard servers, I have come across a single Kalashnikov report in the distance. Just one. But that only solves the problem for that sever, not the game as a whole. We dont want to regress to the mod days where public hive servers were rarer than as50s. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rags! 1966 Posted February 12, 2015 But that only solves the problem for that sever, not the game as a whole. We dont want to regress to the mod days where public hive servers were rarer than as50s. It's a solution for everybody who plays on private shards servers. And that's me and all the smart people. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sacagawea 1 Posted February 12, 2015 (edited) It's a solution for everybody who plays on private shards servers. And that's me and all the smart people. But alot of people dont like to be tied do e to one server, in case it loses it player base, shuts down, needs maintenance Etc Edited February 12, 2015 by Sacagawea Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
IkaikaKekai 1957 Posted February 12, 2015 There's no system in place to prevent that because there shouldn't be. There's nothing in real life that prevents you from an AK being your first gun, or 'you need X hours with a 10/22 before you can upgrade to an AR platform.' If your lucky you'll find an AK as your first gun. I tend to avoid the military automatics but that's personal preference. If I find an AKM and magazine before I find a sporter and mag I'm gonna use the AK till I find another weapon. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gibonez 3633 Posted February 12, 2015 I thought this was already a thing ? I thought police loot was only in police stations meanwhile military bases had military loot. The only reason loot has been sorta mixed across different loot locations was due to lack of variety but as time goes on an variety increases there will be a separation between military , police, and civilian loot. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sacagawea 1 Posted February 12, 2015 I thought this was already a thing ?I thought police loot was only in police stations meanwhile military bases had military loot.The only reason loot has been sorta mixed across different loot locations was due to lack of variety but as time goes on an variety increases there will be a separation between military , police, and civilian loot.Well police stations have one unique gun, im saying we expand that and remove the civilian gun spawns from police buildings Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sacagawea 1 Posted February 12, 2015 There's no system in place to prevent that because there shouldn't be. There's nothing in real life that prevents you from an AK being your first gun, or 'you need X hours with a 10/22 before you can upgrade to an AR platform.' If your lucky you'll find an AK as your first gun. I tend to avoid the military automatics but that's personal preference. If I find an AKM and magazine before I find a sporter and mag I'm gonna use the AK till I find another weapon.In real life there is, try waltzing into a military base and taking a gun. You will be shot. Likewise its not as much for realism as it trying to add more depth and progression to each life. If military bases were actually difficult to loot it would help with the endgame problem we currently have. FinNaly it may be a long shot but giving players a comman ememy and goal could help improve cooperation and reduce kos. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
netzzwerg 9 Posted February 12, 2015 I like the idea. Variation is always fine and this may create some different ways of progression. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Chaingunfighter 917 Posted February 12, 2015 It should really be mixed.Of the weapons in-game, I'd prefer it go like this:Civilian-only Spawns: Crossbow, P1, Derringer, Magnum, LongHorn, CR527, Sporter-22, Repeater, Blaze 95, Mosin 9130, IZH-43.Civilian & Police Spawns: MP-133 Shotgun.Civilian, Police, & Military Spawns: Makarov, SKS (limited in mil spawns.)Police & Military Spawns: AKM, AKS-74U, CR75, 1911, PM73 RAK (could also be East crashsite only)Military-only Spawns: AK74, RDG-5 Grenade.East Crashsite-only Spawns: AK101, MP-133 Shotgun with pistol grip.West Crashsite-only Spawns: Steyr AUG Automatic Rifle, M4A1, FNX-45, Amphibia S, Flashbang, M67 Grenade.Shipwreck-only: Flare Gun.Obviously that's up to some variation, but right now I think most of the guns are general enough that they are either clearly civilian, crashsite, or general enough that they'd be used by both the military and police. We definitely should have some specialized police only weapons and more ones that are only a general military spawn. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sacagawea 1 Posted February 12, 2015 It should really be mixed.Of the weapons in-game, I'd prefer it go like this:Civilian-only Spawns: Crossbow, P1, Derringer, Magnum, LongHorn, CR527, Sporter-22, Repeater, Blaze 95, Mosin 9130, IZH-43.Civilian & Police Spawns: MP-133 Shotgun.Civilian, Police, & Military Spawns: Makarov, SKS (limited in mil spawns.)Police & Military Spawns: AKM, AKS-74U, CR75, 1911, PM73 RAK (could also be East crashsite only)Military-only Spawns: AK74, RDG-5 Grenade.East Crashsite-only Spawns: AK101, MP-133 Shotgun with pistol grip.West Crashsite-only Spawns: Steyr AUG Automatic Rifle, M4A1, FNX-45, Amphibia S, Flashbang, M67 Grenade.Shipwreck-only: Flare Gun.Obviously that's up to some variation, but right now I think most of the guns are general enough that they are either clearly civilian, crashsite, or general enough that they'd be used by both the military and police. We definitely should have some specialized police only weapons and more ones that are only a general military spawn.I agree, a disticnt variation between civilin, military, and police would go a long way towards adding variation into the game Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
IkaikaKekai 1957 Posted February 12, 2015 In real life there is, try waltzing into a military base and taking a gun. You will be shot. Likewise its not as much for realism as it trying to add more depth and progression to each life. If military bases were actually difficult to loot it would help with the endgame problem we currently have. FinNaly it may be a long shot but giving players a comman ememy and goal could help improve cooperation and reduce kos.I'm not talking about walking onto an active military base and grabbing something from the armory. Maybe I'm spoiled because I'm an American, but I can walk to a gun store and buy a military type rifle (I live in Hawaii and we have laws similar to the assault weapon ban, but I can still go out and buy an AK, and through questionable or downright illegal means get a full auto kit for it). In the Zombie Apoc, no one's gonna be around to guard an armory or police station. That and we're well past the point of outbreak, its possible looters raided the armories and such and took their new found weapons home to defend their land before they eventually succumbed. That aside keep in mind we don't even have HALF the weapons we're eventually gonna get (we don't even have half the weapons that have assets made for them, they've showed off models of the Garand, what looks like a K98, and several others). The police tier as you call it will get fleshed out, it'll just take time, which is why we're in an alpha. We're going to have a pyramid of guns, the lower tier and majority will be civilian guns, next tier will be police/special weapons, with the golden crown being the much sought after military weapons. But even then Police and Military weapons start to blur the line. (Again I'm probably biased/have an American Viewpoint) The 'standard' Police weapon is usually a civilian weapon held to higher standards (customized for accuracy/reliability) and uniform, you don't want 1/3rd of the police force walking around with .45 ACP, .357/.38, and 9mm side arms. SWAT or other tactical teams will usually have weapons that are equal to or just a step below a Military Special forces team. I'm not harping on the idea of a new 'tier' of weapons, I was criticizing the idea that there should be some sort of system in place so you don't go from a single shot break action shotgun to an AA12 (god forbid that's ever added to Vanilla). It'll get 'fixed' eventually. It's like someone coming on and saying 'they should add a vehicle other than the one truck we have'. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sacagawea 1 Posted February 12, 2015 (edited) I'm not talking about walking onto an active military base and grabbing something from the armory. Maybe I'm spoiled because I'm an American, but I can walk to a gun store and buy a military type rifle (I live in Hawaii and we have laws similar to the assault weapon ban, but I can still go out and buy an AK, and through questionable or downright illegal means get a full auto kit for it).In the Zombie Apoc, no one's gonna be around to guard an armory or police station. That and we're well past the point of outbreak, its possible looters raided the armories and such and took their new found weapons home to defend their land before they eventually succumbed.That aside keep in mind we don't even have HALF the weapons we're eventually gonna get (we don't even have half the weapons that have assets made for them, they've showed off models of the Garand, what looks like a K98, and several others). The police tier as you call it will get fleshed out, it'll just take time, which is why we're in an alpha. We're going to have a pyramid of guns, the lower tier and majority will be civilian guns, next tier will be police/special weapons, with the golden crown being the much sought after military weapons. But even then Police and Military weapons start to blur the line. (Again I'm probably biased/have an American Viewpoint) The 'standard' Police weapon is usually a civilian weapon held to higher standards (customized for accuracy/reliability) and uniform, you don't want 1/3rd of the police force walking around with .45 ACP, .357/.38, and 9mm side arms. SWAT or other tactical teams will usually have weapons that are equal to or just a step below a Military Special forces team.I'm not harping on the idea of a new 'tier' of weapons, I was criticizing the idea that there should be some sort of system in place so you don't go from a single shot break action shotgun to an AA12 (god forbid that's ever added to Vanilla). It'll get 'fixed' eventually. It's like someone coming on and saying 'they should add a vehicle other than the one truck we have'.Im saying it should just be difficult to go from break action shotty to AA12 (which i would personally love to have in the game) just for the sake of progression and depth, so you dont just jump from worst to best without some sort of challege or middle point. And for the record im also American, from connecticut, and the laws here are more restrictive after Sandy hook and all Edited February 12, 2015 by Sacagawea Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Chaingunfighter 917 Posted February 12, 2015 I'm not talking about walking onto an active military base and grabbing something from the armory. Maybe I'm spoiled because I'm an American, but I can walk to a gun store and buy a military type rifle (I live in Hawaii and we have laws similar to the assault weapon ban, but I can still go out and buy an AK, and through questionable or downright illegal means get a full auto kit for it). In the Zombie Apoc, no one's gonna be around to guard an armory or police station. That and we're well past the point of outbreak, its possible looters raided the armories and such and took their new found weapons home to defend their land before they eventually succumbed. That aside keep in mind we don't even have HALF the weapons we're eventually gonna get (we don't even have half the weapons that have assets made for them, they've showed off models of the Garand, what looks like a K98, and several others). The police tier as you call it will get fleshed out, it'll just take time, which is why we're in an alpha. We're going to have a pyramid of guns, the lower tier and majority will be civilian guns, next tier will be police/special weapons, with the golden crown being the much sought after military weapons. But even then Police and Military weapons start to blur the line. (Again I'm probably biased/have an American Viewpoint) The 'standard' Police weapon is usually a civilian weapon held to higher standards (customized for accuracy/reliability) and uniform, you don't want 1/3rd of the police force walking around with .45 ACP, .357/.38, and 9mm side arms. SWAT or other tactical teams will usually have weapons that are equal to or just a step below a Military Special forces team. In a lot of places you'd be surprised how similar the military and police are in terms of equipment. I mean, here in the United States there's already a lot of controversy over giving police departments MRAPs and armor handed down from the US (mainly from those who are overly worried that better protection for cops means we're becoming a police state, but I digress.) In Africa, Asia, and South America (and Mexico for a notable North American example) it's extremely common for police officers to openly wear AKs and other assault rifles. Eastern Europe is not really any different save for the fact you'll also have a standard patrol force likely included, but for the most part the cops get a lot of hand me down AKs and re-painted military vehicles and the largest difference is their legal abilities are different to those of the military. In the U.S. we just have that "tier" of patrol cops who are armed with a sidearm, and sometimes a shotgun or semi-automatic rifle in their car, as opposed to other countries who either go full out or don't arm regular patrol cops with firearms at all. But basically with the amount of firearms we have now you wouldn't really see that much distinction in loot spawns at police stations vs military ones; the rifles that spawn make sense. Once we get more dedicated military rifles like the SVD or FN FAL I'd presume they will only spawn at military spawns, but for now what we have works (Except for the MP5-K. That shouldn't be a police spawn.) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
IkaikaKekai 1957 Posted February 13, 2015 Im saying it should just be difficult to go from break action shotty to AA12 (which i would personally love to have in the game) just for the sake of progression and depth, so you dont just jump from worst to best without some sort of challege or middle point. And for the record im also American, from connecticut, and the laws here are more restrictive after Sandy hook and allThe 'challenge' as you put it (aside from other players) is under construction and being tweaked. Sure you can just spawn in, run to the nearest airfield and grab a machine gun and top tier military gear. But that's all you'll have, an AK, some Gorka clothes, not to mention an empty stomach and dry bladder. There shouldn't be some some arbitrary system where 'I need to get X kills with a hunting shotgun before I can use an AA12.' If you find an AK in a garage that someone abandoned because they preferred the mosin or SKS or whatever they found, then good for you, you lucked out. The challenge will only increase. Right now you need food and water. Food's gonna get harder to come by, and you'll need to worry if someone took a shit in that river you just drank from because you didn't find any purifier tabs and don't have a means to boil water. Zombies will be harder/easier to deal with depending on your play style. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sacagawea 1 Posted February 13, 2015 The 'challenge' as you put it (aside from other players) is under construction and being tweaked. Sure you can just spawn in, run to the nearest airfield and grab a machine gun and top tier military gear. But that's all you'll have, an AK, some Gorka clothes, not to mention an empty stomach and dry bladder. There shouldn't be some some arbitrary system where 'I need to get X kills with a hunting shotgun before I can use an AA12.' If you find an AK in a garage that someone abandoned because they preferred the mosin or SKS or whatever they found, then good for you, you lucked out.The challenge will only increase. Right now you need food and water. Food's gonna get harder to come by, and you'll need to worry if someone took a shit in that river you just drank from because you didn't find any purifier tabs and don't have a means to boil water. Zombies will be harder/easier to deal with depending on your play style. Well if you got that lucky good for you. That wouldnt be the only way around the system either. You couls sneak in, or have a friend bait Away the zombies, or even just rush the place eith a mob of ffresh spawns with axs. Any od which would be more fun than the cureent walk in and take what u find Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
emuthreat 2837 Posted February 14, 2015 I mean, here in the United States there's already a lot of controversy over giving police departments MRAPs and armor handed down from the US (mainly from those who are overly worried that better protection for cops means we're becoming a police state, but I digress.) I'll bite. Try googling "wrong address, no-knock warrant." Flashbangs should definitely be a police spawn item, but maybe only in the larger cities. I'd like to see a stun gun or taser added. That cattle prod just takes up too much space. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Chaingunfighter 917 Posted February 14, 2015 I'll bite. Try googling "wrong address, no-knock warrant." Flashbangs should definitely be a police spawn item, but maybe only in the larger cities. I'd like to see a stun gun or taser added. That cattle prod just takes up too much space.Wasn't really intended as bait, just to make a point that police forces using effective military-esque equipment is common on the world stage. And it wouldn't really make a difference whether they had the equipment or not, it's just more effective at keeping them safe. All that would be different is you'd have corrupt/bad cops breaking into people's houses and shooting people with non military weapons and situations where good cops/ones who are trying to stop a legitimately bad situation are much more poorly equipped and have to put their lives on the line. The political validity of no-knock warrants and keeping police officers safer are two completely different ideas. Back on topic, I can agree with having flashbangs be a police spawn. Perhaps they should add larger police stations for Cherno and Novo that would accommodate tactical teams and thus allow for high tier equipment spawning so the smaller ones can still be a good place to find weapons but aren't just an easy way to grab an AK or MP5. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
byrgesen 1341 Posted February 14, 2015 I think its a great suggestion, and i think it might be something already in the works (at least a bigger variety of weapons is) But at the same time, shouldnt the "Global Loot Economy" not solve this issue pretty well?As far as i understand, the whole point of it, is to control the amount of loot, so the better it is, the fewer there will be.It should also affect all servers on the public HIVE, when its finished. Combine that with at least twice as many new weapons, and all of a sudden it becomes really difficult to find a good one. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stielhandgranate 480 Posted February 14, 2015 In real life there is, try waltzing into a military base and taking a gun. You will be shot. Likewise its not as much for realism as it trying to add more depth and progression to each life. If military bases were actually difficult to loot it would help with the endgame problem we currently have. FinNaly it may be a long shot but giving players a comman ememy and goal could help improve cooperation and reduce kos. You would probably be apprehended by base security before being mowed down by gunfire. Also the bases are abandoned. There is no security to stop you from picking up an abandoned rifle. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
emuthreat 2837 Posted February 15, 2015 Wasn't really intended as bait, just to make a point that police forces using effective military-esque equipment is common on the world stage. And it wouldn't really make a difference whether they had the equipment or not, it's just more effective at keeping them safe. All that would be different is you'd have corrupt/bad cops breaking into people's houses and shooting people with non military weapons and situations where good cops/ones who are trying to stop a legitimately bad situation are much more poorly equipped and have to put their lives on the line. The political validity of no-knock warrants and keeping police officers safer are two completely different ideas. Back on topic, I can agree with having flashbangs be a police spawn. Perhaps they should add larger police stations for Cherno and Novo that would accommodate tactical teams and thus allow for high tier equipment spawning so the smaller ones can still be a good place to find weapons but aren't just an easy way to grab an AK or MP5.Yeah, bad tangent there. Just recently ran across a story about a baby that got flashbanged in a play pen because of poor intel; which brought me to the topic of flashbangs and other tactical gear. Riot gear perhaps, maybe even a ballistic shield. Or even trollier, rubber bullets. Never use a loaded magazine from a police staion without first checking what's inside, it could be nerfed for LTL engagements. "Yessssss! Finally a mag for my MP5k, let's run to Cherno and tear 'em a new one.... What happened?!? I dumped the whole thing into that guy's back from point blank?" Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gibonez 3633 Posted February 15, 2015 Militaryakmak74ak101/ak74maks74um67rg grenadecr 75fnx 45Police Stationmp 133mp 133 pistol grippm 63 rakmp5kmakarovcz75stun buttonCivilian Derringerp1makarovcz 527mosindouble barreled shotgunm1911ruger 22repeaterblazelong horncrossbow Helicopter / dynamic lootm4auggrenadesexplosivesfnx 45Western Military vests and helmetsAccessories for western firearms Something like this makes sense to me considering whats currently available in game. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
General Moon 6 Posted February 15, 2015 This idea is brilliant, to add a varity of medium-powered submachineguns and ARs found in police locations. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Chaingunfighter 917 Posted February 15, 2015 Militaryakmak74ak101/ak74maks74um67rg grenadecr 75fnx 45Police Stationmp 133mp 133 pistol grippm 63 rakmp5kmakarovcz75stun buttonCivilian Derringerp1makarovcz 527mosindouble barreled shotgunm1911ruger 22repeaterblazelong horncrossbow Helicopter / dynamic lootm4auggrenadesexplosivesfnx 45Western Military vests and helmetsAccessories for western firearms Something like this makes sense to me considering whats currently available in game.FNX-45 and M67 should really be west crashsite only - there's no real reason the CDF would have them (maybe M67s but I feel like the RGD-5 better represents the "East" grenade while the M67 represents the "West" one.) You also forgot the Amphibia, which is reasonably included as West crashsite loot.Regular MP-133 should also be included with regular civilian loot, while the pistol grip variant stays fine as is (should be removed from the West helicopter crashsites, though. Don't know why it spawns there.) And if they move the PM73 to police stations then the MP5K would be better off as crashsite loot as well. It's not end-game tier but it makes more sense that way. The AK-101 still, IMO, only makes sense as a special forces (East crashsite) weapon. AK-74M still falls under that category if they change it in the future. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites