Any plans for 3PP immersion?

[sneakydudes 278]

The only way to properly gauge how 1PP servers would fair in popularity is to force 1PP on all players in a build. Say, .54, all players could only see in 1PP. I wonder if DayZ would lose players....or would the current player base adapt ? I'd love to see a trial like this. I think it would change gameplay for the better. This 'tomb raider" style camera, in my opinion, ruins immersion.  

I think it would lose players, as the ratio currently gives some headaches. The 3rd person allows them to smooth the turning.

 

However there is a fix for 3rd person...

that's render your left and right when up close to a wall, and zoom closer if prone to the ground. This would avoid so many problems.

[Rags! 1966]

I would really, really like Hicks to give his two cents on this topic. 

[Weedz 1105]

3pp is only even in the engine to make it easier to control troops on ARMA. Was never meant to be the mode you play in while controlling yourself. But again, the new majority of players in the game want it to be as easy as possible, don't want the intensity that comes with rounding a corner and having a shotgun or zombie right in your face that you didn't magically already know was there, and will do and say whatever they can to keep it the way it is. Rocket almost made the SA 1pp only before it came out but now that he's basically gone I see no hope of even any tweaks to the camera. Also the 3pp we have in this game is not even close to the same as most 3pp shooters where the camera is right over your shoulder not 15 feet in the air above and behind you.

 

I still say the best solution would be to remove the ability to ADS on 3pp servers and see how the baddies like it then. Shouldn't be a problem right because "3pp is so much superior and you can't even play the game in 1pp" so why would you need to use your sights?

Edited February 11, 2015 by Weedz

[Artyom_DayZ 6]

There is not a single thing wrong with playing in 3pp. I am more comfortable with it, and DayZ is a survival game. If surviving means using what I can to my advantage, I will do so. 3pp is to my advantage, so I will use it if it means surviving. 

[zeotrope 76]

I think it would lose players, as the ratio currently gives some headaches. The 3rd person allows them to smooth the turning.

 

However there is a fix for 3rd person...

that's render your left and right when up close to a wall, and zoom closer if prone to the ground. This would avoid so many problems.

What ratio ? Are you talking about the fov (can be altered in menu) ? Not sure what you mean about 'smooth the turning' and headaches. 

 

Take away the choice of 3PP for a short time and ask for feedback.

 

My reasoning is this. You are occupying an enclosure with a wall just higher than your head. You can simply stand close to the wall and see, without risk, all inbound players. The approaching players do not have this advantage and are handicapped because of this. Now, I hear the argument in regards to 'tightening' the camera in certain circumstances etc. But why? Why would you want a floating camera behind your head in the first place ? What is realistic about that ? Is this not a survival simulation ?

Players who need to see around an obstacle should be at risk to do so. At least make the general population trial the 1PP to see the outcome. There may be a lot of converts once they get used to it. It's a real shame most 1st Person fans are forced (like me) to play on 3rd Person Servers just because most if not all of the full servers are 3PP. And while on these servers, I will use the exploit of the magical cam only because I would be severely disadvantaged if I did not do so. It's just a shame such a great game is bogged down with such an 'arcade' type game mechanic than lends nothing to the true atmosphere of the genre. 

Edited February 11, 2015 by Zeotrope

[jedslather 4]

I do not play 3PP just boring. So no 3PP for me please.

[chompster 171]

Its showing support for both 3PP and 1P how hard is it to understand that? Its not flaming its just merely supporting both.

Again, how does that add anything? No one was saying one is better than the other(in this thread) so "showing support for both" really doesn't mean anything.

 

OP is trying to see if it's possible to add more to the 3PP mode to make it more immersive and less wall-hacky.

[Jex 1104]

I just upgraded my PC. What has this got to do with anything?

 

Well, now that I can run at high graphics settings from pretty much the lowest, and track-ir runs so smoothly, being in 1pp has taken on a new level of immersion. I liked the ability to look at my AV when the graphics were shit, for some reason but now that I have a rig that can kick out decent graphics, wow! I can't stand 3pp now (I gave up playing 3pp servers ages ago anyway because of the exploit). It's so much less immersive - with the graphics up at high it makes me want to see through my avatar's eyes.

[hekp 223]

 

Again, how does that add anything? No one was saying one is better than the other(in this thread) so "showing support for both" really doesn't mean anything.

 

OP is trying to see if it's possible to add more to the 3PP mode to make it more immersive and less wall-hacky.

The thread was already going into 1pp master race convo. again. So I said I like both. You called people who prefer the-not-your-mode scrubs.

Thanks for you opinion.

 

Dynamic FOV... Yknow when it starts zooming in? It's like one of those dreams where you're keep falling and you cant do anything to stop it.

Beside blur&bloom this is usualy the first  thing i turned off in every game so far.

 

Shoulder/different view would be the best bet, but you will never nullify 3p peeking. Which, imo, is not really a must since it's avail. to everyone.

And it seems the majority of the playerbase is not against it. Sure, it is easier stalk/track and attack your target, but its also easier to spot and run from the attacker.

Remember, you're all on the same ground here.

 

Ive played other games where you have this dynamic FOV. Once you get close to a wall or a corner, the camera will zoom in yes, but that doesnt mean you cant abuse the 3p view.  Not to mention there is tons of tricks to fool the camera not zooming in. I guess what im saying is that people will always find a way around.

 

Any kind of FOW implementation just opens up tons of questions regarding the possible issues. It could very well be terrible, something like todays zombies(yes, placeholders, i know); spot a player 400m away in the halway on 9th floor, yet they fail to spot you some 20m away. Would you really want that? actual invis. players?

 

Wouldnt that make it more arcadish, thanks to this cloaking device mechanic? Wouldnt that make allot of people rage, thinking they got killed by a cheater?

And speaking of cheaters, wouldnt that give them yet another mechanic they could possibly abuse ?

 

Returning to FOW&FOV... does that mean devs would have to define every object (windows for example) whether is transparent or not?

How much of a chance would you get to spot someone behind bushes? I guess the engine would have to take my angle of view in calculation..constantly.

You very well know it only takes an axe handle sticking out to spot entire player - would fow, in this case made him completely invis. ?

What if theres only a couple of pixels sticking out? Where would you draw this fine line of invis and visable players?

 

Personaly i think there would be tons of issues that would not improve you gaming experience.

And dont get me wrong please, i wouldnt mind a different camera angle with a smaller max possible fov. It's forced FOV and the idea of FOW im against.

Edited February 12, 2015 by halp

[Jex 1104]

 

Shoulder/different view would be the best bet, but you will never nullify 3p peeking. Which, imo, is not really a must since it's avail. to everyone.

And it seems the majority of the playerbase is not against it. Sure, it is easier stalk/track and attack your target, but its also easier to spot and run from the attacker.

Remember, you're all on the same ground here.

 

Not if the attacker is hiding behind a rock. Once you know someone is there, it's very easy to stay hidden in 3pp whilst keeping an eye on your prey.

 

What 3pp does is makes it easier for the people that love to KOS and harder for the people that are trying to play the game and survive and aren't interested in finding people to just shoot at.

[hekp 223]

Oldschool servers are usualy full aswell.

 

 

Not if the attacker is hiding behind a rock. Once you know someone is there, it's very easy to stay hidden in 3pp whilst keeping an eye on your prey.

 

What 3pp does is makes it easier for the people that love to KOS and harder for the people that are trying to play the game and survive and aren't interested in finding people to just shoot at.

This is way too situational. I've already killed snipers on veresnik, comming from bottom of the hill and they were the agressors.

You need to know how to use your camera and your surroundings. Its pretty much a tactical shooter in 3pp when it comes to cqc.

Better positioning and awarness will bring you on top. What you mentioned is on pair with 3pp scouting thru windows which indeed is cheap, but imo not gamebreaking.I do agree you're in big advantage there since u decide when to make contact.

 

I play mostly as a survivor and ill have to disagree with the KOS thingy.

Its practicly impossible for me to die unless i literally bump into another player or beg to get a shot, dancing on tripple yellow.

3pp or not, KOSers are mostly blind and search for a quick action. With 3pp giving you this powerfull vision tool, you only get more chances of survival when being chased by these headless creatures that lust for blood.

 

Just yday i greeted a guy who in return pulled out his shotgun and started chasing me. It took me one bush for him to ran by and get bowed down.

I often see groups of players, hit the ground and let them pass me.

Outside private shards, i dont find any more KOSers on 1pp than on 3pp. It's really no art to lie behind a rock and shoot people in 1pp either.

It's easier to camp in buildings because people cannot corner check whilst in 3pp you get the opposite. I find it allot easier to stalk in 1pp than to run away/hide.

Edited February 12, 2015 by halp

[lordopeth 274]

I never been a fan of 3rd person in DayZ because of the cam abuse.  Being able to see in rooms, over walls with out exposing yourself is sorta lame. 

But I love playing in 3PP because I like looking at the character.

 

I always thought a good way to combat this was to..

If using the ALT key to turn your head and look around,  It would immediately zoom to FPP (like you are using your eyes) then you can look around. Release the key..zooms back out.

 

EIther way I don't care.. I'll just stick to FPP.. :)

[IgnobleBasterd 161]

 

Full disclosure; I admit that I am a frustrated 1PP player due to severely low pops on 1PP servers, making them less attractive even to me (and I WALK everywhere to increase the immersion - FYI: it's about 14 minutes from Kamyshovo to Elektro), unfortunately I absolutely cannot stand 3PP.

 

Before Dean left (actually before the Alpha dropped I believe), he was talking about modifying 3PP to make it less of an "exploit" in order to get the best of both worlds: players could see their characters, while making combat/spotting more realistic in a 3PP world.

 

I believe some of the thoughts at the time were:

• the faster your character moves the tighter the camera squeezes in
• the closer your character gets to a wall, etc., the camera also tightens
• when your character crouches and prones the camera zooms in progressively
• inventory menu would put you into 1PP (like ads)

 

I've seen the video in which characters in blind spots wouldn't render (and I believe the Devs responded that this is too intensive for the DayZ engine) but I'm not really interested in what they do, I'm more curious if they have any plans along these lines? I haven't seen anything to this effect in the road map and I'm curious if it's just something the Devs are no longer interested in now that Dean is gone?

 

I was hoping the last SurvivorGamez would have inspired more players to try 1PP servers but not even a blip. 1PP is increasingly becoming a "niche" for those people who want to play an apocalypse survival sim. Unfortunately for them it's also losing the threat of other players.

 

 

Knowing that 1PP players are in the vast minority I understand that something like this isn't a priority for Devs, but I believe that thinking along these lines might make 3PP a better experience for everyone.

 

SeeJayPee/RAIGPrime

 

I, for one, think that 3PP should just be removed. I can't really understand why it is there in the first place, when the game is supposed to be realistic. "Hey, I'll just hide behind a wall so I can see other players coming and surprise-pop out and kill them".

[hekp 223]

And by doing this your gain would be.... ?

 

 

"Hey, I'll just hide behind a wall so I can see other players coming and surprise-pop out and kill them".e

 

Just, dont.

Edited February 12, 2015 by halp

[Jex 1104]

Oldschool servers are usualy full aswell.

 

This is way too situational. I've already killed snipers on veresnik, comming from bottom of the hill and they were the agressors.

You need to know how to use your camera and your surroundings. Its pretty much a tactical shooter in 3pp when it comes to cqc.

Better positioning and awarness will bring you on top. What you mentioned is on pair with 3pp scouting thru windows which indeed is cheap, but imo not gamebreaking.I do agree you're in big advantage there since u decide when to make contact.

 

I play mostly as a survivor and ill have to disagree with the KOS thingy.

Its practicly impossible for me to die unless i literally bump into another player or beg to get a shot, dancing on tripple yellow.

3pp or not, KOSers are mostly blind and search for a quick action. With 3pp giving you this powerfull vision tool, you only get more chances of survival when being chased by these headless creatures that lust for blood.

 

Just yday i greeted a guy who in return pulled out his shotgun and started chasing me. It took me one bush for him to ran by and get bowed down.

I often see groups of players, hit the ground and let them pass me.

Outside private shards, i dont find any more KOSers on 1pp than on 3pp. It's really no art to lie behind a rock and shoot people in 1pp either.

It's easier to camp in buildings because people cannot corner check whilst in 3pp you get the opposite. I find it allot easier to stalk in 1pp than to run away/hide.

 

Except that's a very subjective post and whilst you may not use it in a cheap way, practically everyone else is and people do hide behind things and then pop out when you're in the open. I prefer to play games where if they can see me, I can see them or if I'm in combat with my friends, we can move up without having the magic camera to view our movements.

 

The biggest part though is immersion. Why do people want a 3rd person perspective? Why do u feel you need an invisible camera floating above your head. The game plays perfectly fine in 1pp too. There's no more motion sickness than any other FPS that people seem to play perfectly well. I just don't get the need to play with a crutch when you can view things through your eyes and everything is just so much more like being there :)

[wasnu (DayZ) 392]

there was an video someone posted in this forum, but i cant find it anymore (sorry).

 

There was 3rd person view with all the things you can do here, look over walls, around egdes and so on, BUT you cant see enemys while doing that.

The enemys pop up when they are in line of sight, not before.

 

This video was amazing and its for me the only solution for that "cheating" problem.

But when i remember right, one of the devs said, this will not work with dayz SA.

 

if someone is here with better skills in "forum searching" please try to find that vid.

[IgnobleBasterd 161]

And by doing this your gain would be.... ?

 

 

Just, dont.

Oh, but I do. Why? Because I can. The solution is simple: remove 3PP.

[hekp 223]

 

 

Except that's a very subjective post and whilst you may not use it in a cheap way, practically everyone else is and people do hide behind things and then pop out when you're in the open

Oh no, I use it in every cheap way possible to get a better idea of whats going on when im trying to survive. I expect every survivor i meet is doing the same.

I simply see it as a gameplay mechanic that is avail. to everyone. I understand however that many dislike this due to their personal believes on how the game should be played.

 

I've played far too many mp games where i was playing by my own rules, where I intentionaly made it harder for me, because the use of some game mechanics/styles didn't feel rewarding whatever the achievment followed.From ganking players in mmos to AVPing some dust2 spawn kills or using premium ammo in wot for that "edge" in pen.

 

I understand that many prefer 1st person shooters, but there are people who like the third person aswell.

 

Personaly, i enjoyed both 1st person(cs,quake,dod,ro etc) and 3rd person (gtaVMP,JustCause2MP,APB:Reloaded etc) shooters.

Whilst cs was allot more skill intensive when it comes to aiming and muscle reflexes, crossair & burst control, APB was all about outplaying an opponent, using the cover and not exposing yourself whilst scaning in 3rd person.

 

I simply see 1pp and 3pp as two quite different gameplay modes (which they are). Both have their advantages/disadvantages, offer different gameplay/experience and I can play whichever i feel like playing more at that momment.I play both.You are right about the immersion; 1pp wins hands down.

 

 

 

 I just don't get the need to play with a crutch

Because it already looks like it when you're standing  :D

Edited February 12, 2015 by halp

[Caboose187 (DayZ) 3036]

The moment I can't find a 1pp server with 20+ players on it is the moment I stop playing.

[Tiger205 48]

"muh superior gamemode/immursion": the thread.

[raigprime 47]

This got hijacked into the usual 1PP v 3PP and no one answered the question, so I am assuming no one knows if there are any plans to modify 3PP to limit the camera "exploit."

[Caboose187 (DayZ) 3036]

This got hijacked into the usual 1PP v 3PP and no one answered the question, so I am assuming no one knows if there are any plans to modify 3PP to limit the camera "exploit."

To answer your question, no. the forms will explode if they took away the all seeing eye.

[IgnobleBasterd 161]

This got hijacked into the usual 1PP v 3PP and no one answered the question, so I am assuming no one knows if there are any plans to modify 3PP to limit the camera "exploit."

Or they could just remove 3PP altogether? I don't see the problem.

[zeotrope 76]

Developers ! Please remove 3rd Person on a trial basis. 

[nexventor 429]

It saddens me that 3PP is even a thing but I suppose it is just demonstrative of the entire gaming industry where people have become so used to being spectators in games that they can't handle any real challenge. 

 

Hicks has discussed this many times and the Dev's will NOT be removing 3PP so it is pointless discussing that. I doubt very very much that any changes will be made to 3PP, it will be left up to the modding community.