Clarification on "Base Building"

[blunce 991]

What I'm hoping for is sandbag bunkers, log fences, trenches, gardens, water collectors, barbwire coils, canopies, roadblocks, etc.

 

More so established camps opposed to building an entire multistory structure from the ground up.

[Freshmen 28]

 water collectors

 

 

 

Absolutely a must have

[Barbosa1955 15]

What good is a "fortress" when you can't pick it up every Tuesday and lose all your loot and the fortress? So you can start rebuilding it Wednesday?

[Caboose187 (DayZ) 3036]

So... regardless of what you believe, this post has no information in it. You dont even list why you feel that way. It makes this come across like some kid throwing a tantrum over nothing.

Reading comprehension fail there huh?  It has no information because I'm asking for information.  If you think I'm throwing a tantrum over it you are very mistaken there sir.

[Bororm 1156]

I want base building and barricading, there's no reason we can't have both.

 

I personally don't see how you can really secure a camp site with just some fences or whatever, like the devs have mentioned.  At least not while still keeping things "realistic."  Cut barb wire/fence, ransack tents, done.  You aren't going to be able to hide anything as the mod has shown, the map is just too small for that, so the notion of securing a camp site without more permanent sorts of structures/construction doesn't make sense.  A tent is a horrible way to store stuff, all it takes is any sharp object to open.

 

So walls and basic wooden structures etc would at least feel more believable in securing your stuff.

 

To the people saying they don't want it to be "minecraft" or "epoch" or whatever, no one's forcing you to make a base so what's the issue?  Point of a sandbox is you should be free to do what you like, and adding more tools/options as long as they are believable is a good thing.

[fcbm 27]

I would like the base building to be like a mixture between Rust and The Forest.  Rust in the sense that the buildings are 100% customizable.  The Forest in the sense that buildings dont take much resources but the chopping and moving of that wood would take alot of effort, and absolutely no skybases like you see in Epoch or Rust.

 

I also could live with a scaled down version of the "base building" in Arma 3 Wasteland.  Like if i could find sandbags, and tents and other such items and move them around.

[rickyriot 1009]

Barricading is probably the level it will go to just now. So putting planks (or metal if it's introduced) over doors and windows of existing buildings to provide a level of cover and protection.

The question of course would be just how secure is that? We have crowbars in the game and I can assure you no amount of nails, wood and/or metal will stop a determined person with a crowbar (at least in real life anyway).

I would like to see some way of creating bases, but I appreciate Caboose's dislike of Epoch, and while I actually like Epoch I can see how it becomes more of a resource management game than a survival one.

The things I think that need to be introduced (or current items used) to make base building/barricading possible are:

• Wooden planks - presumably from cutting down trees, perhaps the introduction of a wood saw similar but larger to the hacksaw.
• Metal sheeting - if you could salvage this from the existing sheds this would be nice, but other than that sheets of corrugated iron would be the thing.
• Sand bags - we have all the things necessary for this, imo, as we have a spade and a burlap sack. Individual sand bags might be a bit of a faff though, so some way to group them would be nice.
• Razor/Barbed wire - I am guessing this would need to be a loot item as I can't see how to craft it. Ideally you would need to find specialised gloves to deploy, remove it, and to remove it you would also need pliers. The gloves aspect is important as, like real life, you should be able to steal other's wire but only if you are equipped correctly (gloves/pliers). Touching wire without gloves would cause you to bleed.
• Nails - pretty straight forward. To be used for nailing wood to other wood or perhaps covering doors/windows of existing buildings. Nails however would offer little protection to a crowbar.
• Bolts - these would be used for combining the metal sheeting, to use them you would need to have the wrench. Bolt would also offer much more protection to a crowbar.
• Lockable storage - ultimately you need something that can store your valuables. Like an ammo box or protector case but with the ability to lock it. Ideally a little bigger but not to the extent you can keep large weapons in it. 

[DeatHTaX 1217]

I would be fine with barricading and basebuilding in DayZ, but all I want:

 

A: There is a way to salvage heavy duty doors and drag them to your designated building. 

B: People can't spawn inside your building, which would require some sort of item inside the building to keep it "occupied" status or something. 

C: A way to secure houses or buildings that doesn't necessarily allow any ol' person with a worn lockpick to come in and trash all your stuff. I think it would be a good idea to require multiple lockpicks to undo a personally secured door. (unless you're the owner)

D: Additions to make it a fully self-sustainable compound, i.e. water collectors, farming plots, item storage

E: Item storage that is SECURABLE. In other words you could bury it, put it in some sort of lock box that is a world loot item, store it in a locked vehicle, etc.

[Lazlobob (DayZ) 0]

Obviously, at first it will be simple mechanics like most other things. Things like: fences, traps, barricading, etc. (like everyone has already said). However, I don't think it will stay like that forever, and if it does then (IMO) the devs would be really making a mistake.

Think about it, say your group has a camp site that is fenced. By this I mean there is some sort of basic fencing surrounding your camp (it could be scavenged metal/wood, pallistades, wooden boards, etc). Let's say this time it's wood. So you have created crude wooden walls around your camp. Is it really that far fetched to go from wooden walls to roofs? Thereby, making buildings and once we have buildings why limit then to just sheds (like mentioned above)? What's stoping us from building cabins, houses, forts, etc.? I'm not saying this would be fast, because it's not. Nor am I even mentioning the problems with destruction (since I would prefer to see it ingame before comenting on that).

If you want to be realistic here would it take serious time for a group to build a fort? Of course. Would it be faster to just build a shed or better yet just a wall? Most certainly. But what's stoping us, what invisible hand is preventing us from creating them? Hmmm?

For me DayZ is a challenge that never stops and unlike other games it's actually realistic. If i have walls around my camp I'm going to want buildings inside of them. I'm going to want to keep expanding, keep building, keep discovering, and thereby continue to survive. Why limit our future to some super basic model, when it has the potential to be like everything else in DayZ?

[MountGreen 20]

 

To the people saying they don't want it to be "minecraft" or "epoch" or whatever, no one's forcing you to make a base so what's the issue?  Point of a sandbox is you should be free to do what you like, and adding more tools/options as long as they are believable is a good thing.

 

 

 

The problem is epoch wasn't believable. It got incredibly stupid and very immersion-breaking very quickly. It was like: "hmm just sneaking through the zombie infested lands of 'oh look, someone has created a skyfortress of sandbag structures impenetrable to zombies, I'm safe.'" :P It ruins the game a little bit for everyone who likes the feeling of realism.

[MountGreen 20]

You ever see those wooden sheds, the ones with the single door and the window? I hope we can build something like that. The square ones could fit a single cot, a woodstove, and some shelving/storage space, while the long ones could hold maybe 4 bunks (double stacked) a woodstove, and some storage.

 

Personally, I would think building structures like these (if they are allowed) should be very end-game and time consuming, in order to prevent just random huts popping up all over the map in stupid places.

[MountGreen 20]

The one problem with all this is I don't quite see the point. What are you going to do with your base once it's built? If it's just a store for loot I'm far happier having a stash someplace or a tent. If it's a base of operations does barricading not serve this purpose better? For example I quite like holing up in Green Mountain and protecting/travelling from that location and so all I need to barricading for a pretty solid setup. Also from a realism point of view, I don't think post apocalypse survivors would bother making their own buildings when so many lie empty for the taking? For these reasons, I personally don't see why player built structures (beyond bushcraft type A-frames etc) should be in the game at all.

 

By the way I don't mean this as an attack on the concept, if anyone wants to dispute me on a point feel free :P

[Whyherro123 2283]

Personally, I would think building structures like these (if they are allowed) should be very end-game and time consuming, in order to prevent just random huts popping up all over the map in stupid places.

Why? They aren't that difficult to build; they don't have insulation, they aren't on a ground-pad, and they probably aren't all that waterproof.

 

Should they take time and effort? Of course, but I am sure that even I, with my limited carpentry experience, can build one of those in a day or so. 

 

And, the materials for basebuilding are EVERYWHERE in the game world. Stacks of seasoned boards, pallets of concrete, pallets of bricks, even slabs of concrete for the ambitious. There is no reason beyond artificial "balancing" (snort) that we wouldn't be able to use them.

 

Also, the point of building new "buildings" (sheds, lean-tos, etc) in the woods and avoiding already-built houses is simple: people will get to the pre-built ones eventually. If there is a road leading somewhere, eventually, someone will take that road. 

Edited January 14, 2015 by Whyherro123

[nexventor 429]

The one problem with all this is I don't quite see the point. What are you going to do with your base once it's built? If it's just a store for loot I'm far happier having a stash someplace or a tent. If it's a base of operations does barricading not serve this purpose better? For example I quite like holing up in Green Mountain and protecting/travelling from that location and so all I need to barricading for a pretty solid setup. Also from a realism point of view, I don't think post apocalypse survivors would bother making their own buildings when so many lie empty for the taking? For these reasons, I personally don't see why player built structures (beyond bushcraft type A-frames etc) should be in the game at all.

 

By the way I don't mean this as an attack on the concept, if anyone wants to dispute me on a point feel free :P

 

So just cause it is not your play style, it shouldn't be in the game? Entitled much? 

[sneakydudes 278]

So just cause it is not your play style, it shouldn't be in the game? Entitled much? 

I really cant wait for this to be added to the game. Have some cool clan vrs clan battles, and or holdouts of bandits etc...

 

sounds like loads of fun for some of us.

[chickenmcfuggits 49]

Some kind of structure for masking the light from your campfire at night would be nice.

[nexventor 429]

I really cant wait for this to be added to the game. Have some cool clan vrs clan battles, and or holdouts of bandits etc...

 

sounds like loads of fun for some of us.

 

It was super cool in the mod, I expect to be even better in SA. The only things that can ruin it is balance ie the amount of time it takes to build a wall to the amount of time it takes to destroy it and admins! 

[MountGreen 20]

 

So just cause it is not your play style, it shouldn't be in the game? Entitled much? 

 

Wow, I didn't mean that mate calm down.

 

I just currently don't see what it would add and I'm interested in what you think it will. If it suits your play style, how so? What role would the bases play?

 

This post was meant to be a discussion and my views aren't set in concrete

[Bororm 1156]

 

The problem is epoch wasn't believable. It got incredibly stupid and very immersion-breaking very quickly. It was like: "hmm just sneaking through the zombie infested lands of 'oh look, someone has created a skyfortress of sandbag structures impenetrable to zombies, I'm safe.'" :P It ruins the game a little bit for everyone who likes the feeling of realism.

 

 

I agree with that part, but that's simply because it was badly implemented.  I trust the dayz team to keep things "grounded" in this case.

 

The people I'm referring to are the ones who simply don't want building/construction just because they personally don't enjoy it.  The people saying "if I wanted to play minecraft, I'd play minecraft" it's the equivalent of people saying "if you wanna shoot people go play cod."  This game's a sandbox and has room for everything.

 

 

Wow, I didn't mean that mate calm down.

 

I just currently don't see what it would add and I'm interested in what you think it will. If it suits your play style, how so? What role would the bases play?

 

This post was meant to be a discussion and my views aren't set in concrete

 

 

I can't speak for him, but bases add all kinds of stuff.  They help form communities.  By giving you a "permanent" home you are compelled to play a single or at least limited amount of servers.  This creates community in the broader sense that players become regulars on a server.

 

Beyond that it creates communities in the literal in game sense that base building usually takes a group of individuals to create and maintain.  This creates team work on a basic level.  There's possibilities for small settlements (there's precedence in other games for this, we already see this to a degree on RP dayz servers as is).

 

Giving people a sense of permanence creates interesting scenarios, both peaceful and for pvp.  If you know where an enemy's base is, there's opportunity for feuds and rivalries to be created which for some people are the funnest forms of pvp as they carry more weight.  In ultima online, fighting people at their houses was a huge part of the game and tons of fun.  Assaulting and defending bases on a very basic level is extremely fun besides.

 

They also create the opportunity for RP or more peaceful scenarios such as trading or places to help out other players.  This gives those who aren't necessarily into pvp something to do.  They'll nearly assuredly be attacked at some point, but assuming you have a strong enough group it leaves room for individuals to pursue whatever they're into while others guard.

 

It gives long term goals for those who want them.  As it stands, you gear up and go die, repeat.  Bases don't build and stock themselves and will likely be constantly in turmoil unless a group is strong enough, creating endless potential for things to do.

 

All of this is if you decide to take part in it, it's not forced on anyone.

Edited January 14, 2015 by Bororm

[MountGreen 20]

Why? They aren't that difficult to build; they don't have insulation, they aren't on a ground-pad, and they probably aren't all that waterproof.

 

Should they take time and effort? Of course, but I am sure that even I, with my limited carpentry experience, can build one of those in a day or so. 

 

And, the materials for basebuilding are EVERYWHERE in the game world. Stacks of seasoned boards, pallets of concrete, pallets of bricks, even slabs of concrete for the ambitious. There is no reason beyond artificial "balancing" (snort) that we wouldn't be able to use them.

 

Also, the point of building new "buildings" (sheds, lean-tos, etc) in the woods and avoiding already-built houses is simple: people will get to the pre-built ones eventually. If there is a road leading somewhere, eventually, someone will take that road. 

I understand that IRL they aren't too difficult to make but aren't you a little bit worried about how they get used? If everyone can make one with minimal game hours suddenly you get huts cropping up all over like rust and it CAN end up looking stupid and unrealistic. I understand it actually isn't difficult to build things like that I just worry about the affect it has on gameplay.

 

Sorry that's what I was trying to get it didn't make it clear :P

[Whyherro123 2283]

I understand that IRL they aren't too difficult to make but aren't you a little bit worried about how they get used? If everyone can make one with minimal game hours suddenly you get huts cropping up all over like rust and it CAN end up looking stupid and unrealistic. I understand it actually isn't difficult to build things like that I just worry about the affect it has on gameplay.

 

Sorry that's what I was trying to get it didn't make it clear :P

I never said it would take "minimal game hours" (If that is what you meant") I said that I could probably build one in a day or so. That is in an environment where I am perfectly safe, well fed, hydrated, and can concentrate on my work without having to worry about bandits or infected. Also, all the supplies would be either available, or easily transportable by vehicle (which can transport A LOT more that someone carrying them, or even by sled/wagon.).

 

In Day Z, this most likely wouldn't be the case. You have to both work on the structure, keep an eye out for those bandits, stop to cook and eat, tend to your farm, as well as make numerous trips back and forth to towns to get supplies......OR, you could barter for supplies from a roaming trader, which in and of itself would lead to communities springing up around trade route crossroads.

 

So, no, it would take a while, even with a groups. At least in my mind....

[nexventor 429]

Wow, I didn't mean that mate calm down.

 

I would have to be excited to calm down, I'm not even mildly aroused ;)  

 

I just currently don't see what it would add and I'm interested in what you think it will. If it suits your play style, how so? What role would the bases play?

 

Somewhere you can call home, being creative and designing your own base is a HUGE appeal to a lot of players. It's realistic, it adds to the game, it adds things to do instead of just KoS'ing all the time (and personally the only reason I play is to KoS) so it's got to be a winner for all those PvE types if I am saying that, they might live a little longer if I am distracted.

 

And then there is the raiding... Probably some of the best gaming experiences in my entire life. There literally isn't anything quite like stalking players back to their bases only to end up having some of the most epic fire fights imaginable where winner literally takes all. Taunting people from their own bases is also fun!

 

 

This post was meant to be a discussion and my views aren't set in concrete

 

You just got to remember the game is for everyone and your posts just seemed "me, me, me". Whenever an idea is posed I always ask myself this one question, "how will this negatively effective game play". If it I can't find a reason, then I have no problem with it. For example someone suggested companion animals, now to me, I have no interest in that whatsoever. HOWEVER, I could not come up with any legitimate negative attributes, so meh, they can have it if the dev's see value in it. Some people just like to say NO for the sake of saying NO. 

 

The problem is epoch wasn't believable. It got incredibly stupid and very immersion-breaking very quickly. It was like: "hmm just sneaking through the zombie infested lands of 'oh look, someone has created a skyfortress of sandbag structures impenetrable to zombies, I'm safe.'" :P It ruins the game a little bit for everyone who likes the feeling of realism.

 

As Borom said it got stupid as it was poorly implemented but also because admins could spawn in what they wanted when they wanted. A base would take a normal player fucking weeks to build something significant, an admin could do it in a few hours. Once an admin attacked our very very basic base, we annihilated him. 5 mins later he was back at our base with an Apache helicopter LOL! 

[Caboose187 (DayZ) 3036]

Base building removes the realism. All it does is turn the game into a clan vs clan warfare match. I trust the devs to do the right thing and the modders to do the wrong thing. Epoch is garbage and that's what a large chunk of the playerbase wants and I guarantee it won't be part of the base game. I will play a vanilla dayz until there is no vanilla left and move on to something that doesn't suck.

[Whyherro123 2283]

Base building removes the realism. All it does is turn the game into a clan vs clan warfare match. I trust the devs to do the right thing and the modders to do the wrong thing. Epoch is garbage and that's what a large chunk of the playerbase wants and I guarantee it won't be part of the base game. I will play a vanilla dayz until there is no vanilla left and move on to something that doesn't suck.

1) No, it doesn't. Allowing players to build massive fortresses that would collapse under their own weight? Yes, no realism. Allowing players to build shacks, rough walls, and small compounds with a lot of work, time, and materials invested? Pretty much realistic, both in the sense of what would be possible and what would likely actually happen.

2) Clan vs clan warfare is pretty realistic. Human beings are tribal by nature.

3) Your opinion. And I know you know that old phrase about opinions......

[scriptfactory 620]

Clan vs. clan warfare sounds great for private shards. It can't come soon enough. Doing raids and protecting bases is fun as hell. Making a cabin in the middle of nowhere with traps for offline defense, in-door agriculture and electrical generators sounds pretty survival to me. Hell, they could let us use pets as an off-line defense method, too. Bears and dogs protecting our property. Who would be against that?