Should scopes in dayz have the ability to zero?

[Jex 1104]

There were plenty of good mods in arma 2 that had zero'ing, MOA and windage (with wind indicator)

[CJFlint 357]

My motivation is really from the point of view of the person sniping not the victim. See my post above this for how I came up with the idea. Not saying snipers are the boggie man, I don't mind being sniped and snipers should always be in dayz. I just want some challenge in taking my shots.

 

Everyone has there nests....and knows ranges to key structure (fireststions, hospitals, schools) or up at NWA I know, from my nest, which hanger I have to throw the zeroing up and just use centre scope. The thing with milldots (thnking DMR from the mod here) was that it was a little harder to track a moving target with a milldot than full horizontal line. No resting that line on his head and waiting for him to run into the shot...there were often times you could lead, fire and realise it was slightly high or slightly low. That's much less likely happen when your zeroing is where it should be and you use that horizontal line :)

I am pretty defencive about this subject, becuase if you remember the mosin basicly got 3 direct nerfs already. Bipod was taken away, sway was added (although not a bad thing), then the damage nerf. Also the fire axe can not be painted anymore which is a camo nerf. Also the mosin rap was taken out, which is another camo nerf targeting players who use the mosin. The added the ghillie suit yes BUT its like winning the loto geting one...most players dont even bother...So yes the devs are def trying to limit the abiltys of the overwatch or "sniper" style players....There zero doupt in my mind. I pretty much been running withe the mosin almost every life in this game, since I have been playing it, it def has been nerfed a 3 times already directly. Also 2 indirect nerfs as well. It in my eyes as been already heavy handed nerfed.

 

The reason for this is simple, QQing. Its the people bitching about hackers and bitching about these sneaky "snipers". So they water down the game....so what next....after the mosin...what will we bitch about then and have watered down to cator to our self centered short comings? AKM players...sks players? Then what after that ? This type of shit wrecks games....I have seen it happen.

 

Im not directing this at you, I understand what your saying....but I see how people respond....more nerfs..The only way I would be happy with this zeroing idea is if it applied to ALL weapons....every dam one of them...were it would be a factor.

Edited December 11, 2014 by CJFlint

[WindMillStalker 10]

It would be cool if the player would have to manually zero the rifle and scope.

 

 

Make sniping into a proper skill instead of picking up a scoped rifle and put the pipper on the target. Work that rifle first. Get it aligned, zero it properly.

 

 

Then windage. Plx. 

[Karmaterror 982]

I am pretty defencive about this subject, becuase if you remember the mosin basicly got 3 direct nerfs already. Bipod was taken away, sway was added (although not a bad thing), then the damage nerf. Also the fire axe can not be painted anymore which is a camo nerf. Also the mosin rap was taken out, which is another camo nerf targeting players who use the mosin. The added the ghillie suit yes BUT its like winning the loto geting one...most players dont even bother...So yes the devs are def trying to limit the abiltys of the overwatch or "sniper" style players....There zero doupt in my mind. I pretty much been running withe the mosin almost every life in this game, since I have been playing it, it def has been nerfed a 3 times already directly. Also 2 indirect nerfs as well.

 

The reason for this is simple, QQing. Its the people bitching about hackers and bitching about these sneaky "snipers". So they water down the game......so? what next....after the mosin...what will we bitch about then and have watered down to cator to our self centered short comings? AKM players...sks players? Then what after that ? This type of shit wrecks games....I have seen it happen.

 

Im not directing this at you, I understand what your saying....but I see how people respond....more nerfs..The only way I would be happy with this zeroing idea is if it applied to ALL weapons....every dam one of them...were it would be a factor.

 

I see what you mean with all the nerfs, however I think they wanna turn the mosin into the enfield of the SA. Im sure we will get a better rifle that takes a bipod and guillie wrap, SVD maybe? Im sure they said the LRS wont go on the mosin in the end so it wont be our sniper rifle.  

 

How would you feel about no zeroing if we had a fully fledged sniper rifle in game that could mount all accessories and was good on the accuracy?

[CJFlint 357]

I see what you mean with all the nerfs, however I think they wanna turn the mosin into the enfield of the SA. Im sure we will get a better rifle that takes a bipod and guillie wrap, SVD maybe? Im sure they said the LRS wont go on the mosin in the end so it wont be our sniper rifle.  

 

How would you feel about no zeroing if we had a fully fledged sniper rifle in game that could mount all accessories and was good on the accuracy?

My concern is becuase of all the "KOSing" which I will admit, is sometimes pretty out of control...and down right mean. Many players who are victoms of KOSing are get pissed about it....It really its kind of a dick move to shoot a player that really is posing no threat. Your just running around minding your own biz and bang "your dead". It causes so much QQing. I'm worried they will limit the hell out of guns like that, becuase of KOS ass hats. They reality is these people who do this "KOS" are normally armed with guns like the AKM or M4. More skilled players prefer the mosin in reality.  

 

I agree the mosin is not really the most ideal long range rifle in the RL. But really its the only one in the game right now, and untell the add a new one, I don't wanna see it nerfed any further until the new rifles come into the game. Looks like the CV is getting a scope and the new alaskan rifle is coming as well as the SVD later one....I think. I just hope they dont limit the hell out of it compared to every thing else. I would also be fine with zeroing IF it aplys to ALL guns that it would have an effect on...I would be just fine with that. Meaning guns that shot over a 100 meters. But the longer range it will have to be taken into account more so....thats fine.

Edited December 11, 2014 by CJFlint

[WolfgangErikson 127]

I've don't have much experience in-game with the scopes and rifles. How does the zeroing currently work? Is it automatic?

 

I would like to see the need to manual sight in rifles when a new scope is attached. Also, I would think you you want the center point of your scope to hit at 400 yards, you could sight it in manually by shooting at targets and making the appropriate adjustments. Similarly, if you would rather have it sighted in at 200, you find a target at that distance and do the same process. 

Edited December 11, 2014 by WolfgangErikson

[CJFlint 357]

I've don't have much experience in-game with the scopes and rifles. How does the zeroing currently work? Is it automatic?

 

I would like to see the need to manual sight in rifles when a new scope is attached. Also, I would think you you want the center point of your scope to hit at 400 yards, you could sight it in manually by shooting at targets and making the appropriate adjustments. Similarly, if you would rather have it sighted in at 200, you find a target at that distance and do the same process. 

In the RL its adjusting you windage and elevation...when I was in the service we all had a personal rifle issued, each time we "zeroed", windage was setting that that varyed from riflemen to riflemen and we marked the iron sights with a pen...each riflemen and the rifle settings was different so, you always used the same rifle..no rifle was the same, they all were slightly different..When it comes to realism, we could be opening really boring not so fun pandora box, of techical specs. Becuase the reality is high powered rifles are complex, its a sceince. But this is a game lol so that will be going to far.....so dayz I don't think wind is even a factor in game yet. The mosin currently requires to figure out your range either using they map, or using a range finder. But wind currently is not a factor. So really the only thing you have to worry about is range......dayz guns as far as function and mechanics are really simplified and in some cases unrealistic compared to RL..To be honest....do we really need them to be completly realistic? I don't think so.....dont forget about the fun factor lol

 

My agrument is if your going to add zeroing and stuff like windage, it has to be across the board, not just targeting guns like the mosin. LOL it would cut down on KOS, becuase most kosers arn't the brightest, they prob will not bother trying to figure it out. LOL

Edited December 11, 2014 by CJFlint

[WolfgangErikson 127]

In the RL its adjusting you windage and elevation...when I was in the service we all had a personal rifle issued, each time we "zeroed", windage was setting that that varyed from rifle men to rifle men and we marked the iron sights with a pen...each rifle men was different so, you always used the same rifle....But this is a game lol so that will be going to far.....so dayz I don't think wind is even a factor in game yet. The mosin currently requires to figure out your range either using they map, or using a range finder. But wind currently is not a factor. So really the only thing you have to worry about is range......dayz guns as far as function and mechanics are really simplified and in some cases unrealistic compared to RL..

 

Yeah, I'm cool with wind not being a factor in a the game, that gets a bit too nitpicky. Range should definitely be a factor though. I understand how zeroing rifles work IRL and am glad some of it is implemented in game. Does the in-game ranging require adjusting the scope? Are the iron-sights pre-marked? I guess I'm OK with iron sights being marked already.

 

I guess my real questions is how do the scopes work? Is the center already sighted in? Do they require adjustment to fire accurately and at the desired distance? I would hope that is the case.

[CJFlint 357]

Yeah, I'm cool with wind not being a factor in a the game, that gets a bit too nitpicky. Range should definitely be a factor though. I understand how zeroing rifles work IRL and am glad some of it is implemented in game. Does the in-game ranging require adjusting the scope? Are the iron-sights pre-marked? I guess I'm OK with iron sights being marked already.

 

I guess my real questions is how do the scopes work? Is the center already sighted in? Do they require adjustment to fire accurately and at the desired distance? I would hope that is the case.

Yes they do. The LRS scope and PSO are most effected I think, becuase there longer range. My hot key is page up or page down....lol its by 100 meter each...if that tells you anything about realism...lol pretty simplified...but its a game. What I do is use the dayz tv map. So like if for expample I deside to shot out of one the APT really building down cherno...the ist thing I do is figure out were exactly I am on the map, then start measuring distances off of serveral land marks to get a ruff idea of ranges...that way If I see some one I can set my range on the fly with out having to dick around with the map. Now with the range finder, its just a matter of you aiming it then pressing F and it will give you your range. Then you can set your scope. When sway was added your sights move around allot, this effected even more by avatar health and shooting stance. So you gotta time it just right....much of the time you only wound players...if there able to run off. Sometimes you dont hit anyone, thats not nec a fail though....they are supressed by you shooting at them....they become really leary. Geared players take 2 to 3 shots too take down Im not kidding. Last time I shot a geared player I fired at him 4 times, so several hits, honestly I did not stick around to see if he died. Prob did....who cares.

 

I also love to shot animals from really far away I will confess, its kind of fun, but sometimes I cant find them to get the meat off of them  :D

 

Back a few pathces ago, the mosin was just deadly, it had no sway, it had the bi pod....I mean you could post up some were and cap like 5 or 6 players in one session. It was OPed and a one shot deal. Now your lucky to wound someone.

Edited December 11, 2014 by CJFlint

[anotherdeadhero 71]

I think the LRS, PSO and PU....along with the super rare m4 scopes should be left as is. Although rarity is a whole nother debate....But no nerfs.....lets not even get into that bull shit were, were nerfing and balancing shit all the time....if it really needs then do it....otherwise stop complaining about it. I hate have my game dumbed down and nerfed.....saw this patch nerfed camo, can't paint fire axes....mosin rap is gone....all because the ghillie suit was added...which most are not even going to go after. So really we took one step forward, 2 back ward....Its true

 

I played a game MMO game once that started catoring to forums nerf this nerf that QQers once, they started all these bull shit nerfs every patch....the game went belly up  after a year of that. Then sony dropped it, now there barely clinging on to life. The sad part was the game was really a rich epic game for the 1st few years..it really was..The silent majority packed there shit and left quicker then you can blink when started in with the BS nerfs.. The reason is the people on the forums were really only a small % of the huge base many of them did not rep the base as hole, only there own selfish short comings ..the scary thing was the devs starting taking them serous......and when you start catoring to bull shit you piss off the silent majority...its true. Quite frankly I never thought I say this, but I starting to see the same thing here.

 

I can see if these scopes are all over the place......or like before when the mosin had no sway, and there was no damage nerf....and it had the bi pod....thing was deadly....but not now..come on really? It takes more then one shot to kill a reasonbly geared player at range with it now....with sway...thats not always easy....not like players that like the mosin get a free ride.....Give me a fucking break with this shit!

 

I hate nerfs when there just not needed.

 

Hey guys, they got rid of the hacker threat for the most part.......so WTF now "snipers" or over watch players  are the new boogie man on the forums? Really? Guys serously hang in there private shards are coming....with that the bandit crap and kos crap will go down. No need for the nerfs. I really starting to think kos ass hats need to tone it down a notch. Fuckers are the ones causing all this QQ!

spot on man, i have seen it happen to a few games as well and i feel like this game is heading in the same direction, i don't even play it anymore and if they keep heading down this path of listening to the people who shout the loudest they will ruin this game, i have no doubts about that.

[PongoZ 127]

I like how zeroing is described in this thread as a feature.

Zeroing would be a requirement,  You find a scope, you find a gun, you put the scope on the gun, a zombie starts running at you and you pull the trigger and miss the zombie...

Because you did not zero the weapon and scope. 

In the above scenario, it should take some shots to zero your optics.  You would not dream of mounting that scope until you are in a situation when you can spend 20 rounds and 30 minutes to zero it. 

The quality of the zero would reflect how far you want to shoot it. if you leave the weapon shooting groups 2cm low right at 100 meters, it will be missing along way at 600m. 

 

So yes there should be zeroing in the game, but it is nothing to do with setting your scope to 600m and hitting dead on...lol its to do with setting up your weapon and optics so that they will work and you understand where they shoot.

[Karmaterror 982]

I like how zeroing is described in this thread as a feature.

Zeroing would be a requirement,  You find a scope, you find a gun, you put the scope on the gun, a zombie starts running at you and you pull the trigger and miss the zombie...

Because you did not zero the weapon and scope. 

In the above scenario, it should take some shots to zero your optics.  You would not dream of mounting that scope until you are in a situation when you can spend 20 rounds and 30 minutes to zero it. 

The quality of the zero would reflect how far you want to shoot it. if you leave the weapon shooting groups 2cm low right at 100 meters, it will be missing along way at 600m. 

 

So yes there should be zeroing in the game, but it is nothing to do with setting your scope to 600m and hitting dead on...lol its to do with setting up your weapon and optics so that they will work and you understand where they shoot.

 

Hehe as I said not very knowledgeable on guns, I did know it held some realistic merit, but not how exactly. Maybe I described it as a feature as most games its not there, the arma series was the first where I encountered it. 

 

Im starting to understand how it should function a bit now, so not entirely against it....just a more realistic implementation that doesn't allow for a quick 3 button press and centre scope shots allllll the time.

 

I like the idea of having to find somewhere quiet and actually set your scope and rifle up with some practice shots at a tree. Am I right in thinking then once its zeroed in you still have to account for drop, or are there still settings for range when its calibrated?

[CJFlint 357]

spot on man, i have seen it happen to a few games as well and i feel like this game is heading in the same direction, i don't even play it anymore and if they keep heading down this path of listening to the people who shout the loudest they will ruin this game, i have no doubts about that.

Yep....I think the worst is when devs and game companys lose connection with there base...you know what I am talking about you have seen it too. Dayz SA I think is not as bad, becuase there so many streamers, people on the forums ect. But still theres a large number that say nothing. I see signs of this type of bs though...I really do. The one thing they got going for them is this alpha....but you only can use that card so many times. They should be really careful when it comes to forums feed back too....I am not joking there are many who cry nerf, becuase of the own selfish short comings. There on this forum...I seen them. You have to be able to tell, legit gripes from just BS self centered QQ.

 

Heres the thing there are times when stuff really is out of balance, and stuff needs to get toned down....I think the devs should be careful with this though. I will admit the mosin did need to be toned down a few monthes back, but not as heavy handed as they did it. If you shoot a geared player, to be really honest its allot of times you just wound them. It just the truth...KOS my ass try WOS LOL. You know .51 I pretty much cofirmed the devs are cracking down on a play style....which I dont like. The ghillie suit was added (super duper rare to find netting) and they took out more camo options that were easier to ubtain for overwatch players.....This stinks. So really there not doing anyone who prefers scout/sniper or over watch playstyle a favor by adding the ghillie suit and realeasing .51 in its state. In fact they nerfed our play style even further and to cover it up a little they added the uber rare ghillie suit....you will have better luck finding a smersh vest or a M4. I kind of feel like this play style is under attack.

 

Zeroing windage ect ect....again I think if it were across the board, it would be a good add. For every weapon that is effected by it. Thats really the only way I would go for it.

Edited December 11, 2014 by CJFlint

[AlphaDogMeat . 493]

Yep....I think the worst is when devs and game companys lose connection with there base...you what I am talking about you have seen it too. Dayz SA I think is not as bad, becuase there so many streamers, people on the forums ect. But still theres a large number that say nothing. I see signs of this type of bs though...I really do. The one thing they got going for them is this alpha....but you only can use that card so many times. They should be really careful when it comes to forums feed back too....I am not joking there are many who cry nerf, becuase of the own selfish short comings. There on this forum...I seen them. You have to be able to tell, legit gripes from just BS self centered QQ.

 

Heres the thing there are times when stuff really is out of balance, and stuff needs to get toned down....I think the devs should be careful with this though. I will admit the mosin did need to be toned down a few monthes back, but not as heavy handed as they did it. If you shoot a geared player, to be really honest its allot of times you just wound them. It just the truth...KOS my ass try WOS LOL. You know .51 I pretty much cofirmed the devs are cracking down on a play style....which I dont like. The ghillie suit was added (super duper rare to find netting) and they took out more camo options that were easier to ubtain for overwatch players.....This stinks. So really there not doing anyone who prefers scout/sniper or over watch playstyle a favor by adding the ghillie suit and realeasing .51 in its state. In fact they nerfed our play style even further and to cover it up a little they added the uber rare ghillie suit....you will have better luck finding a smersh vest or a M4. I kind of feel like this play style is under attack.

 

Some people won't be happy till they're running round dressed in animal skins and using flint axes and arrowheads, because everything else is either "too easy" or "OP".

 

Still, I'd like to see the V3S as a Flintstone-style car.  Just once.

[CJFlint 357]

Some people won't be happy till they're running round dressed in animal skins and using flint axes and arrowheads, because everything else is either "too easy" or "OP".

 

Still, I'd like to see the V3S as a Flintstone-style car.  Just once.

Yeah true :D Exactly!

 

You know what patch I thought had the perfect loot count......was .49...shit was rare...so regardless it leveled the playing feild, evened things out...no nerfs needed....We were freezing our balls off but god dammit it was a good challenge.....Weather mechanics were abit wonky but after a while it grew on me. I think it just needed a little tweaking .50 either there was too much loot or too little lol The weather system was def more summer...I liked the patch over all it really was a good one. Now the "hackers" boogie men are gone...so I really think they could balance the game better by adjusting loot count then nerfing stuff....I really hope that nerfing and just flat out taking things away.does not become the new norm.

 

I also think before anymore mechanics like zeroing or windage gets added, fix the stuff thats already there, and put some of it back the way it was...

Edited December 11, 2014 by CJFlint

[B4GEL 175]

 In fact they nerfed our play style even further and to cover it up a little they added the uber rare ghillie suit....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HQoRXhS7vlU

[Pandema 352]

Done. Now remove zeroing.

 

 

Still waiting on that long rifle scope with mill dots/any sort of marking to make an appearance.

 

PSO and ACOG shouldn't have had zeroing to begin with, years of having the center be ~100m has made it impossible for me to use those stupid things.

[anotherdeadhero 71]

Some people won't be happy till they're running round dressed in animal skins and using flint axes and arrowheads, because everything else is either "too easy" or "OP".

 

Still, I'd like to see the V3S as a Flintstone-style car.  Just once.

Make that blunt axes and bent arrows so you cant tell where it will hit when you reslease it, then were on the right tracks.

[-Gews- 7443]

PSO [...] shouldn't have had zeroing to begin with

 

Hmmm, wonder what this thing does...

 

[gibonez 3633]

I saw this comment by a dev on reddit, replying to people complaining about the plans to have the vehicles use manual transmission and i thought it was relevant here: 

 

"We are promoting player skills, if you want to drive that vehicle you need to know how to operate it. Doesn't matter at all if it takes some time to get used to it."

 

This is a good sign in regards to their design vision, hopefully they'll apply the same way of thinking to the shooting mechanics.

 

Great news hopefully they take the same approach to the shooting mechanics and not only add mil/moa turrets but full blown ballistic simulation like in this video.

 

 

The effect on gameplay would be amazing since firefights would last much longer.

[Pandema 352]

Hmmm, wonder what this thing does...

 

 

Don't you know?

 

You turn that knob and the gun dispenses vodka. 

[PongoZ 127]

Hehe as I said not very knowledgeable on guns, I did know it held some realistic merit, but not how exactly. Maybe I described it as a feature as most games its not there, the arma series was the first where I encountered it. 

 

Im starting to understand how it should function a bit now, so not entirely against it....just a more realistic implementation that doesn't allow for a quick 3 button press and centre scope shots allllll the time.

 

I like the idea of having to find somewhere quiet and actually set your scope and rifle up with some practice shots at a tree. Am I right in thinking then once its zeroed in you still have to account for drop, or are there still settings for range when its calibrated?

 

Yes, but its not called zeroing. Its called range compensation. You can certainly get range compensating turrets for the elevation settings of your scope. But they are very very weapon and ammo specific. And the farther the shot has to go the more specific they become.

I actually just ordered one for the Leopold on my Sako yesterday. I had to say the Calibre and actual round used its muzzle velocity and ballistic coefficient, height of the centre of the scope above the centre of the bore and the altitude and temperatures I typically shoot at. 

Since its for a hunting rifle I would imagine some of that environmental stuff would not come into play too much cause I will not shoot an animal at over 400 anyway but what the hey. 

[AdrtySanchez 0]

Done. Now remove zeroing.

 

I think zeroing should stay in for most weapons (all on which it makes sense) but get an animation so you cannot just quickly switch between distances. Scopes with markings should then have the advantage of being more flexible at the cost of being slightly harder to use.

They shouldn't remove zeroing for one simple reason...it isn't realistic or authentic.I OWN a scope very similar to the the LRS and I can zero it(and I can adjust the magnification or zoom from 3x-9x),however keep in ming it doesn't say 100-1000 meters. In fact it says nothing,zeroing is adjusting elevation and windage which should be added instead of removing anything. If I can find the game I'm thinking of it was a military sim tat I used to play where you had to do that by watching the grass or a flag or even smoke to adjust for windage,and its an older game from 2002 or so it was very similar to arma or the battlefield series in the sense the maps were huge,tons of vehicles and just all out warfare.

 

Removing zeroing from other scopes like the acog or red dot isn't realistic either,as I own one of both aswell(in case you're wondering I have these on my AR-15 and my MK17 SCAR) and guess what,they too have windage and elevation adjustments. Even iron sights have these adjustments,I'm not sure about the pso or PU though. I saw someone make mention about the recoil being unrealisitc,my question there is...have you ever fired one of these before? Mosin,M4,akm etc? I have and the recoil is very close,more so on the mosin and M4.

 

So if you don't like zeroing all I can say is deal with it,it's realisic.Again it doesn't show the range but if you know how to use these tools it's actually very easy to do with little effort. However I do agree mildots need to be implemented,as almost all modern scopes have them.

[chekovp 89]

Removing zeroing from other scopes like the acog or red dot isn't realistic either,as I own one of both aswell(in case you're wondering I have these on my AR-15 and my MK17 SCAR) and guess what,they too have windage and elevation adjustments. Even iron sights have these adjustments,I'm not sure about the pso or PU though. I saw someone make mention about the recoil being unrealisitc,my question there is...have you ever fired one of these before? Mosin,M4,akm etc? I have and the recoil is very close,more so on the mosin and M4.

 

So if you don't like zeroing all I can say is deal with it,it's realisic.Again it doesn't show the range but if you know how to use these tools it's actually very easy to do with little effort. However I do agree mildots need to be implemented,as almost all modern scopes have them.

 

This isn't really the type of zeroing that is being discussed here. Red dot and ACOG sights are zero'd when first acquired and periodically to confirm the zero. These aren't sights that you on the fly adjust your zeroing.

 

I'm not for or against removing zeroing, I think every sight should reflect it's real life counter part. 

 

And for the guy that said he was used to having an ACOG zero'd to 100m. Most ACOG's, especially military spec ACOG's are meant to be zero'd at 300m, hence the 4, 5, and 6 markings under the center.

[ob1korobi 125]

OK OK im guessing the model we have in now would zero IRL....as they do things pretty realistically. But should a zeroing model be included at all?

 

I would like to see 2 types of scope, the DMR from the mod....no zeroing but a RMB zoom. And a fixed LRS with higher dfault zoom but still no zeroing.

 

I feel like (while realistic) its just gonna make sniping way to easy. Why not make us have to account for bullet drop always, make us learn the milldot ranges ect.

 

So what do you guys think is better for dayz gameplay....zeroable or none zeroable ? :)

 

Zeroing is an option. If you don't want it, don't use it.  You still have to dial in your optic. If anything that takes more time.  When you use the mil dots you are accounting for bullet drop. When you adjust a scope by zeroing, you are accounting for bullet drop. Raising the barrel and using the vertical cross-hair is easier and faster for me but zeroing might be easier for someone else.