MELEE! grrrrrrRRRRR!

[crazykage 1063]

Months I have been away, playing other, FUNCTIONAL games for a change of pace.

 

I come back to see whats new, and I find THIS:

 

MELEE is somehow WORSE???? HOW? How have you devs failed to fix this, THIS, a simple, CORE CONCEPT that should have been in place FROM THE BEGGINNING, like SO many other aspects, STILL missing from this game *COUGHmapandcompasssimultaneouslyCOUGH*.

 

This game is in ALPHA, right? hold on lemme check *goes looks at another thread YEP, first random thread I checked had some nob head spouting THIS IS ALPAH!! (insert pic of Leonidas). Isnt the alpha stage where this kind of thing is supposed to be done? ya know, the BASIC framework?

 

How is it that at this stage of development, we are not only STILL missing key features that should be a basic aspect of the game from the beginning, like using a map and compass TOGETHER, something that could be done in arma 2, the dayz mod, AND arma 3, yet STILL is not a part of THIS game (especially when proper navigational tools are ELEMENTRY to basic outdoors survival)? How is it that melee, while admittedly not perfect to begin with (yet still functional), is now worse than it was a few months ago, which even then, was worse than it was in the beginning??? And where the HELL are the fire axes??? The only weapon that might give me a chance against these rutheless hordes is NOWHERE in sight, even on servers that have PILES of loot, I cant find one (not really mad about the loot piles. that's a bug, cant be mad about that. THAT sort of thing is to be expected). Every other weapon I have tried is either TOTALLY useless, or has some bizarre, arbitrary hit point that I cant seem to accurately find. I mean, I stabbed a zed in the head with a pitchfork like 12 times or so before she went down. I then bled to death because of how many times she wacked me, but at this stage I had given up trying to dodge AND attack, and just decided to test the weapon.*PSST! itsuseless

 

I feel that at this point I reaaaaaally question the development of this game, and the decision making that has gone into it. No, I don't believe that they see it as a cash cow to be milked for all its worth before abandoning. THAT I don't buy. But frankly, I think you guys have your priorities twisted. I mean, the basic concept was ALL there for you to grab from:

 

1.  arma 3 has an EXCELLENT inventory system that is BOTH user friendly AND realistic, but instead, we get a clunky, arbitrary, UNREALISTIC system of boxes where a single pocket in my jeans can hold ONLY 4 pens, OR an entire ammo box (somehow), which btw is somehow the same size and volume as a single pistol. ABSOLUTELY arbitrary and nonsensical, AS WELL as detrimental to gameplay overall.

 

2. The ability to use a map WITH my compass was a feature already available in arma 2 and the mod, and was carried over into arma 3. WHY for FUCKS sake was this not put into place from the beginning in standalone???? How is it that NOBODY on the team thought this should be a feature? "Hey, we got maps, and we got compasses, we should probably make sure they can be used together like before."

 

3. Ballistics. I can see that this has been drastically adjusted, but haven't had a chance to test it at longer ranges yet, so I don't know how MUCH better it is, but it IS much better. YET! from the beginning we had that random nonsense spread, when, in arma 2 and now 3, there was already a system in place that very accurately simulated realistic ballistic projectile behavior. I mean, arma 2 was CREATED for the MILITARY!!!! It HAD to have something like that. So why wasn't it "ported over"?

 

and that's just the TIP of the iceberg. Now I get it, some things might have been a programming conflict or something. I know that the game's engine is not the same as arma 2 OR 3's. But even if the CODE couldn't work, you could have at least copied the concept. But instead, you have taken something that only needed some improvement, and instead decided to rebuild it from the ground up!

 

Its like if you owned a sweet, beautiful Dodge Viper RT10, but it had really shitty, ugly rims. All you had to do was replace the rims with something that had a nice chrome finish. HELL, you could even have added SPINNERS, although that might have been a bit much. But instead, you took off the old rims, and tried to reinvent the god dammed WHEEL! Now your sweet viper is on a set of squarish concrete blocks that are HELL to drive on.

 

lots of cool new items tho. I guess..... Now if I could just survive as a fresh spawn long enough to find a decent melee weapon that wont miss the target that is RIGHT IN FRONT OF ME, and wont take 40 HITS TO KILL THE BASTARD, I MIGHT be able to enjoy using them....

 

to summarize a mostly scathing critique that may have come off as a bit ragey, Nice work, cool new stuff, but for the love of god, GET THE CORE MECHANICS FIXED, PLEASE!!!! I want SO badly to enjoy this game....
 

[becker44 22]

Bet you're a lot of fun to have around during the holidays.......................sigh........................

[byrgesen 1341]

I almost stopped reading after the first sentence mate.

 

Months I have been away, playing other, FUNCTIONAL games for a change of pace.

 

 

 

I mean, arma 2 was CREATED for the MILITARY!!!! It HAD to have something like that. So why wasn't it "ported over"?

 

That is simply not true, VBS is created for military contracts, Arma is a game, ment as entertaintment.

VBS is created by Bohemia Interactive Simulations (BISim), Arma/ToH/ToM/DayZ is created by Bohemia Interactive Studios (BIS), its not the same company and they most certaintly dont share alot of content.

 

 

 But instead, you have taken something that only needed some improvement, and instead decided to rebuild it from the ground up!

 

You already answered every question you made, by your own statement here, basicly mate.

Edited November 17, 2014 by Byrgesen

[alsmir 255]

Sorry to say that, but your post will be either moved to rants topic or completly deleted.

 

What I've lerned so far on SA forums:

You can praise the game all you want. You can say that it's great, the best etc.

You cannot say it's sh*t, because "alpha, disclaimer", you can't say the progress is slow, because "not true!" or similar great argument. You can't say the developers are doing anything wrong, because "you don't know how alpha works".

 

Get ready, you will be bashed by multiple white knights, some of them registered on these forums just a few months ago, but they are experts on SA. They can offend you, insult you, but if you say anything back to them mods will react and hide your posts + give you warning points.

 

If you don't like the game yet, come back in few months. Don't bother arguing why you don't like it - it's pointless.

 

Edit: Lol, disclaimer posted already.

Edited November 17, 2014 by Alsmir

[byrgesen 1341]

Sorry to say that, but your post will be either moved to rants topic or completly deleted.

 

What I've lerned so far on SA forums:

You can praise the game all you want. You can say that it's great, the best etc.

You cannot say it's sh*t, because "alpha, disclaimer", you can't say the progress is slow, because "not true!" or similar great argument. You can't say the developers are doing anything wrong, because "you don't know how alpha works".

 

Get ready, you will be bashed by multiple white knights, some of them registered on these forums just a few months ago, but they are experts on SA. They can offend you, insult you, but if you say anything back to them mods will react and hide your posts + give you warning points.

 

If you don't like the game yet, come back in few months. Don't bother arguing why you don't like it - it's pointless.

 

Edit: Lol, disclaimer posted already.

 

That is not true either.

Provide constructive feedback and suggestions for improvement and the thread will stay.

Provide a rant and demand stuff left and right, like a small child, and it will be "graveyarded".

Theres plenty of evidence to show this. More then enough debates about crucial gameplay mechanics or functions, both involving critisism and constructive feedback.

 

But as far as im concerned, the OP made a giant rant and demands left and right, with false facts spread all over the post.

Much of what he has mentioned has already been adressed by the devs and explained why its like this atm.

This post is pure evidence of "not following development, but still knowing everything".

[kakysas666 191]

Yep melee have been broken for the past 12 months now and never fixed, just patched a little sometimes it is made worse, sometimes even more worse. For now I got used to it almost unless I am using a shovel or other item against zombies.

[Mor (DayZ) 57]

Yep melee isn't very good in Dayz atm.

 

3. Ballistics. I can see that this has been drastically adjusted, but haven't had a chance to test it at longer ranges yet, so I don't know how MUCH better it is, but it IS much better. YET! from the beginning we had that random nonsense spread, when, in arma 2 and now 3, there was already a system in place that very accurately simulated realistic ballistic projectile behavior. I mean, arma 2 was CREATED for the MILITARY!!!! It HAD to have something like that. So why wasn't it "ported over"?

By 'random nonsense' are you refer to dispersion or swing? as far as I know Dayz ballistics model overall is based on the same concepts you'd see in arma2\3 (with few adjustments like adding hitHealth\hitBlood\hitShock etc, although no one knows how it works) Edited November 17, 2014 by Mor

[svisketyggeren 662]

. Isnt the alpha stage where this kind of thing is supposed to be done? ya know, the BASIC framework?

 

 

No...alpha is when u add lots of broken stuff to the game, nothing is supposed to be done...beta is when stop adding code and u fix it all. Secondly none of that matters...there is no industry standard/rule set that dictates how someone should develop their game.

There can also be different reasons why something isnt fixed at a certain point in time...if u add one part of a system, there is no point in fixing it before the whole system is in place. U try to avoid fixing it twice.

 

Stop making dramaqueen posts, use ur commonsense and relax like real men do.

Edited November 17, 2014 by svisketyggeren

[crazykage 1063]

becker44, on 17 Nov 2014 - 07:31 AM, said:

Bet you're a lot of fun to have around during the holidays.......................sigh........................

tons!

 

I stopped reading after the first sentence mate.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

That is simply not true, VBS is created for military contracts, Arma is a game, ment as entertaintment.

VBS is created by Bohemia Interactive Simulations (BISim), Arma/ToH/ToM/DayZ is created by Bohemia Interactive Studios (BIS), its not the same company and they most certaintly dont share alot of content.

you stopped reading, eh? guess not.

 

I know its alpha. Christ. I get that! But how long has this gone on? the game is still fundamentally flawed, and NOT because of bugs like ladders or falling through stairs, or piles of loot, but because the core concepts haven't been properly emplaced OR thought out. in fact, MANY of them are POORLY thought out. I know full well what alpha means, and I don't expect the game to be playable, at least not completely. I am questioning some basic design and concept decision making here. Does it make sense to YOU that 4 pens equal the same amount of "volume" as an ammo can??? OR that an ammo can can fit in your fukin PANTS POCKET?!?!? (hot news tip: I have an ammo can JUST like the one in game, and it DOESNT fit into my pocket.).

 

As for that last bit, I didn't know that. thanks for informing me.

 

 

Sorry to say that, but your post will be either moved to rants topic or completly deleted.

 

What I've lerned so far on SA forums:

You can praise the game all you want. You can say that it's great, the best etc.

You cannot say it's sh*t, because "alpha, disclaimer", you can't say the progress is slow, because "not true!" or similar great argument. You can't say the developers are doing anything wrong, because "you don't know how alpha works".

 

Get ready, you will be bashed by multiple white knights, some of them registered on these forums just a few months ago, but they are experts on SA. They can offend you, insult you, but if you say anything back to them mods will react and hide your posts + give you warning points.

 

If you don't like the game yet, come back in few months. Don't bother arguing why you don't like it - it's pointless.

 

Edit: Lol, disclaimer posted already.

I know all this. I expect nothing more. or less, depending on how you look at it. Im not here for them. Im here for ME. And the devs, on the supremely off chance one of them happens to read it, AND give a shit.

[crazykage 1063]

Byrgesen, on 17 Nov 2014 - 07:43 AM, said:

 

 

 

 

But as far as im concerned, the OP made a giant rant and demands left and right, with false facts spread all over the post.

Much of what he has mentioned has already been adressed by the devs and explained why its like this atm.

This post is pure evidence of "not following development, but still knowing everything".

Rant? yes. false facts? what is false? melee is broken, worse than the "worse than before", 4 pens take up the same inventory space as an ammo can (if that's not arbitrary, I don't know what is), I STILL cant use a compass WITH my map, AND all of this is due to decision making at the development level that is essentially focused on adding fashion items instead of building the basic framework for a game that is a remake of a game that was a very nearly perfectly functional MOD of another game, attempting to rebuild and reinvent, fixing what wasn't broken. So what was "false", exactly?

 

EDIT: im not trying to come off as a hater here people. I am honestly critiquing what "I" see to be problems from my perspective. I don't hate the developers. I don't want my money back. AND I DO believe that at the very least, this game has the POTENTIAL to be one of the greatest, legendary games that will go down in HISTORY. But not at this rate...

 

Edited November 17, 2014 by Crazykage

[byrgesen 1341]

you stopped reading, eh? guess not.

 

I know its alpha. Christ. I get that! But how long has this gone on? the game is still fundamentally flawed, and NOT because of bugs like ladders or falling through stairs, or piles of loot, but because the core concepts haven't been properly emplaced OR thought out. in fact, MANY of them are POORLY thought out. I know full well what alpha means, and I don't expect the game to be playable, at least not completely. I am questioning some basic design and concept decision making here. Does it make sense to YOU that 4 pens equal the same amount of "volume" as an ammo can??? OR that an ammo can can fit in your fukin PANTS POCKET?!?!? (hot news tip: I have an ammo can JUST like the one in game, and it DOESNT fit into my pocket.).

 

As for that last bit, I didn't know that. thanks for informing me.

 

Thats why i edited it to "almost" stopped reading ;)

Im not trying to get into a fight here or shit on your parade mate, but it certaintly seem like you havent followed development in the past couple of months, and therefor dont understand why it is what it is atm.

I agree, theres a TON of issues in the game right now, and the more stuff they put into it, the more the game breaks.

I also agree that many of the topics you brought up, are important topics, worth discussing, but its more the way you deliver the message.

 

When i read your post, it looks and feels like you are yelling at a person for doing something stupid, but you are however not providing alot of solutions, that would improve the conversation :)

 

 

Basicly it comes down to this:

Most of what they already had for Arma, didnt fit DayZ very well and had very limited functions, in terms of survival, persistance and the whole MMO genre they are going for.

So insted of working on the code they already had, they decided to throw most of it away and start from scratch, so they could develop a product with VERY specific needs and features, hence they are called it a "new engine".

Now i agree, that some things didnt have to be done like this, but on the other hand, it would be hard to justify selling a game, thats basicly a "2.0" version of a free mod. They have to do alot more to actually make it worth the money they want for it.

This approach also opens up for A LOT of new stuff for the future. The ability to fully re-create functions and make them interact with other functions/mechanics, in a much more effecient and "safer" (thnk exploits) way, is truly what the game needs.

Much of the hacking and cheating we had in the mod, and still have in Arma, is possible because of the simple fact, that the client has control over the server and can tell it what to do. So many of the old functions relies 100% on this "relationsship" and since they are trying to move as much as possible to the server, and give the client as little "power" as possible (think regular MMO, like wow for example) many of the current functions, simply would not work in the game any longer.

 

As far as im concerned, this is the correct route to go down through, but it will bring alot of issues with it. Hopefully they can overcome these issues, through development. I also believe this is why they keep saying its gonna take a LONG time before its done (last i heard was Hicks saying that its at least a year and a half from RC client).

[Evil Minion 943]

Not commenting on the OP because its presented in a way that makes me not want to read it.

What I've lerned so far on SA forums:

You can praise the game all you want. You can say that it's great, the best etc.

You cannot say it's sh*t, because "alpha, disclaimer", you can't say the progress is slow, because "not true!" or similar great argument. You can't say the developers are doing anything wrong, because "you don't know how alpha works".

People like to moan or rage about everything and people tend to be clueless about things indeed. This has nothing to do with fanboyism but with keeping down stupid and pointless hatemongering for the sake of being a jerk. Some people seem to to seek for excuses to insult others and their work. They do so in an utterly unconstructive and arrogant way. Often the subject was already discussed in some length as well but as the main intention of those people is to flame they do not even bother looking for it.

 

Other people get fed up with this constant barrage of uneducated bullshit and thats where the "Alpha!" comments come from - and sometimes they hit legitimate criticism as well. But this is not and what you are complaining about is caused by such posts.

[kichilron 8550]

If you have a problem with how the development is being approached, you have a problem with getting your information.

 

It was advertised that this is how the development is going to be approached and this information is out there. It is not the developer's fault - it is your fault for not understanding this simple fact. I would rather have them build the basis of the game with content and mechanics and then fix whatever was broken instead of fixing everything, breaking everything by adding new content and then having to fix it all over again. This will increase the Development time by atleast 25-30%.

 

I suggest you go out, search for this information and when you come back, please do not rant anymore.

 

And to whoever says that constructive criticism isn't allowed - get your information and facts straight as well. Ranting will not be allowed, as it won't lead anywhere and is wasting everyone's time. Criticism however is heard as long as it's constructive.

 

 

 

DayZ's engine is being developed - we could have chosen to not give consumers the option to take part in the design of the systems by withholding the Early Access but we chose instead to allow folks to participate (with heavy warnings on potential issues, etc in the Steam store). Just because you are given the choice to participate in the process earlier than would traditionally ever be allowed does not make the development process suddenly "super slow" - you've just never really been given access this early.

I'm confident this has allowed us to dynamically design the gameplay and mechanics of DayZ as well as engage the community for feedback and ideas far more than ever would have been possible prior to Early Access.

Additionally, there is nothing "criminal" here - and money in does not equal a suddenly rushed product. We will stick to our 2.5 to 3 year development cycle as planned - if you're not happy with that.. Well, you're entitled to that opinion I suppose, but it won't change anything.  :)

 

 

Despite what you may choose to believe, DayZ has been in principle development for a little over a year now. You may have wanted "the mod with some polish and security fixes" but this is not what we chose to put out, nor is it what we represent the title as on the Steam store.

It was decided that rather than produce a beefed up version of the mod that DayZ would instead start from the ground up with source access to the base engine, the time and manpower to take this and create a new and proper engine designed around what the vision and scope of DayZ should be, and expand greatly upon the systems and simulation powering that experience.
This has and will allow us to support and extend the world and gameplay of DayZ to the scope that the DayZ development team endeavored to do from the beginning, and lay a proper foundation for DayZ to support both the service (the hybrid MMO side of DayZ) and the platform (User generated content via mods/steamworks) past 1.0.

The duration of the development cycle, and fair warning that gameplay and the experience will be rocky and problematic during the Early Access period is openly communicated, and in many situations aggressively branded (even to the point of discouraging purchasing of the title for those unwilling to deal with the potential gamebreaking issues during this phase).

I'm sorry you feel you are not getting the experience your purchase in the Steam store offered - but I am confident we communicate both the state of the development , and the type of product offered in the Steam store as well as our external communications.

 

There is information out there. You can search for it. You can do it. Do it.