Eating and drinking system - Please, just give it up.

[Whyherro123 2283]

That's the issues.  Survival takes work, followed by, "DayZ is not suppose to be a second job!!"  These forums will constantly get flooded with complaints about the difficulty until either the developers fold or they just give those people the finger, which is what I'm hoping for.

Pretty much. From this thread, I am getting the feeling like people want to be able to PvP without worrying about surviving. "Canned food shouldn't be hard to find!""Why am I so cold?!" etc.

 

PvP should feasibly be the end game. It signifies that you have progressed beyond hand-to-mouth existence, and start looking outward, for control of the environment, to start to rebuild society, etc. Look at it from a realistic aspect: not everyone would be able to afford to go fight that clan of bandits. Instead, a group of farmers sponsors a group of soldiers, paying them (in food, fuel, etc) for protection. Eventually, if a farmer saves up enough bartering material, they can trade for a gun and some ammunition, and join the soldiers.

 

Unfortunately, I never see that happening. Too many people focus on the KILLING, not the SURVIVING. Too much "run to the closest gun spawn:, not enough "how am I going to survive till tomorrow".

 

In my perfect Day Z, loot wouldn't respawn. Eventually, the only gear would come from what you grow, what you make, etc. (food is grown on farms/taken from animals, clothing is patched together from old pieces/woven from new cloth, bullets and firearms are made in small shops, etc). This, by its very nature, would cause people to bunch together in support of industry and agriculture. PvP would be organized, and over resources, like fuel depots, industrial parts, etc etc, not merely for the "hell of it".

Edited October 21, 2014 by Whyherro123

[Whyherro123 2283]

There is a difference between survival and needing 2000 calories in one meal to stop being hungry. 

 

Is that surprising ? That people have jobs, schools and lives and cannot spend insane amount of hours in game to cook food, patch clothes and pretty much have an entire live in game ? 

Mate, I am pretty sure I can eat a pigeon, some green beans, and a potato or two and be good for a while. It is called "forage as you go". See an edible plant, pick it an eat it. See a rabbit or pigeon, kill it and save it for later. If you eat all the pumpkins in a garden, you probably won't be hungry.

[Caboose187 (DayZ) 3036]

Pretty much. From this thread, I am getting the feeling like people want to be able to PvP without worrying about surviving. "Canned food shouldn't be hard to find!""Why am I so cold?!" etc.

 

PvP should feasibly be the end game. It signifies that you have progressed beyond hand-to-mouth existence, and start looking outward, for control of the environment, to start to rebuild society, etc. Look at it from a realistic aspect: not everyone would be able to afford to go fight that clan of bandits. Instead, a group of farmers sponsors a group of soldiers, paying them (in food, fuel, etc) for protection. Eventually, if a farmer saves up enough bartering material, they can trade for a gun and some ammunition, and join the soldiers.

 

Unfortunately, I never see that happening. Too many people focus on the KILLING, not the SURVIVING. Too much "run to the closest gun spawn:, not enough "how am I going to survive till tomorrow".

 

In my perfect Day Z, loot wouldn't respawn. Eventually, the only gear would come from what you grow, what you make, etc. (food is grown on farms/taken from animals, clothing is patched together from old pieces/woven from new cloth, bullets and firearms are made in small shops, etc). This, by its very nature, would cause people to bunch together in support of industry and agriculture. PvP would be organized, and over resources, like fuel depots, industrial parts, etc etc, not merely for the "hell of it".

Unfortunately loot, at least some needs to respawn otherwise a fresh player will never actually make it.  

 

There is a difference between survival and needing 2000 calories in one meal to stop being hungry. 

 

Is that surprising ? That people have jobs, schools and lives and cannot spend insane amount of hours in game to cook food, patch clothes and pretty much have an entire live in game ? 

Big deal if you can't do insta create shit.  Dean with it.  That's how the game is suppose to be.  It's meant to be hard and grueling.  Rust seems to be the game that people want and it's being redone for those who want flashy colors, quick loot, and a simplistic crafting system.  

[General Zod 1118]

Mate, I am pretty sure I can eat a pigeon, some green beans, and a potato or two and be good for a while. It is called "forage as you go". See an edible plant, pick it an eat it. See a rabbit or pigeon, kill it and save it for later. If you eat all the pumpkins in a garden, you probably won't be hungry.

In real life yes, but currently, you need a shit tonne of calories to get energized

Big deal if you can't do insta create shit.  Dean with it.  That's how the game is suppose to be.  It's meant to be hard and grueling.  Rust seems to be the game that people want and it's being redone for those who want flashy colors, quick loot, and a simplistic crafting system.  

Seems like we have two camps here, 

Camp we want easy things

Camp we want to spent 10 hours a day in game surviving. 

 

They won't make it gruelling they won't make things take ages, because they won't make the game for that 10% of no life hardcore survival crowd. Simply because MAJORITY of people does not have time to a second life online.  

[Caboose187 (DayZ) 3036]

In real life yes, but currently, you need a shit tonne of calories to get energized

Seems like we have two camps here, 

Camp we want easy things

Camp we want to spent 10 hours a day in game surviving. 

 

They won't make it gruelling they won't make things take ages, because they won't make the game for that 10% of no life hardcore survival crowd. Simply because MAJORITY of people does not have time to a second life online.  

First off it doesn't take 10 hours to survive so that's thrown out the window.

Second, the most time anything takes so far is at most 10 minutes and that's cooking.  They may have even tweaked it so it's shorter.  

 

Again, Rust seems to be more your cup of tea.  It has simplistic gameplay.

[Whyherro123 2283]

Unfortunately loot, at least some needs to respawn otherwise a fresh player will never actually make it.  

 

Big deal if you can't do insta create shit.  Dean with it.  That's how the game is suppose to be.  It's meant to be hard and grueling.  Rust seems to be the game that people want and it's being redone for those who want flashy colors, quick loot, and a simplistic crafting system.  

 

In that case, the newspawn goes to the closest settlement and asks for work. "Sure, you can cut firewood/pick crops/operate this lathe for XXX credits/goods/yadda yadda yadda per hour/per unit produced", says the overseer.

 

Newspawn works for pay, gets enough money/good/credits to pay for supplies, and signs onto a merchant caravan as a guard. He saves the money he makes from this job (as well as the money he makes from selling dead bandit's equipment), and buys his own caravan. Since he worked with the clan producing X, they give him good prices on their stock. He roams Chernarus, selling his goods and making a tidy profit. Boom, freshspawn to entrepreneur.

 

Don't think it is possible? Look at EVE. People spend DAYS sitting there mining ore, all for a corporation (clan in EVE). Eventually, they make enough cash to buy a bigger ship, then a bigger one, eventually becoming a major player in their Corp. If EVE can do it, so can Day Z (technically)

[General Zod 1118]

First off it doesn't take 10 hours to survive so that's thrown out the window.

Second, the most time anything takes so far is at most 10 minutes and that's cooking.  They may have even tweaked it so it's shorter.  

 

Again, Rust seems to be more your cup of tea.  It has simplistic gameplay.

Don't know what rust is, nor do I care. 

Now your argument out of the window, I don't want simplistic gameplay, but I don't want a overly time consuming one either. I play SC2 which is all but simplistic, so I don't mind hard games, but I do mind games that take a lot of time for little gain. 

[Abram_ 40]

I think it's mostly fine as it is. I've downed dozens of times and have yet to starve or Freeze to death. Though I've come very close. Actually my third person exp character is currently "freezing" for about 4 minutes before my game crashed and i had to go to work... :/ im not to optimistic. Though i am in Novo....

In any case, the eating and drinking is a big party of the game. Wouldn't be the same without it. Play another game if you want it easy.

[sachad 1016]

Something I pondered... Should hunger and malnourishment be two seperate things? I mean, it's easy to fill your stomach with anything remotely edible to stop you from feeling hungry, but that does not necessarily mean you're eating the right thing. 

[Whyherro123 2283]

Something I pondered... Should hunger and malnourishment be two seperate things? I mean, it's easy to fill your stomach with anything remotely edible to stop you from feeling hungry, but that does not necessarily mean you're eating the right thing. 

Yes. You can eat all the canned beans in the world, but your teeth will fall out due to nutrient deficiencies. Having agriculture would allow you to meet nutritional demands.

[sachad 1016]

Bring back scurvy!

[Whyherro123 2283]

Bring back scurvy!

YESSSSSSSSSSSSS

 

Although, technically, there are plenty of plants that provide vitamin C. Like Pine needles, dandelions, etc.

Edited October 22, 2014 by Whyherro123

[Ham_Sandwich27 108]

Pretty much. From this thread, I am getting the feeling like people want to be able to PvP without worrying about surviving.

Now show me ONE post where anyone said anything even remotely like that. If people didin't want to worry about surviving, they wouldn't be playing DayZ. You're taking comments suggesting that the hunger/thrist should be toned down and twisting that to mean those people don't want any survival mechanics whatsoever because that's the only position you can argue against, and that's an idiotic way to argue.

People are syaying that having to eat every half an hour is over the top, not that they don't want to have to eat at all, and you know it. Stop with the bullshit straw-man arguments.

Edited October 22, 2014 by Ham_Sandwich27

[UKA Harrysoon 67]

Going from moderately peckish to dying of starvation in the span of 30 minutes is over the top, but being able to sprint none-stop for 10km in 40 mins isn't? Obviously the hunger system is relative to the average length of time per gaming session. 

Edited October 22, 2014 by Euphobia

[General Zod 1118]

Yes. You can eat all the canned beans in the world, but your teeth will fall out due to nutrient deficiencies. Having agriculture would allow you to meet nutritional demands.

And should it be like you guys praise realistic, hard and gruesome ? Waiting weeks or months for you plants to grow ? 

Because right now we have apples, oranges, zucchini, bananas and berries. This will combined with canned fish cover all you mineral and vitamin needs. 

Edited October 22, 2014 by General Zod

[UKA Harrysoon 67]

And should it be like you guys praise realistic, hard and gruesome ? Waiting weeks or months for you plants to grow ? 

Because right now we have apples, oranges, zucchini, bananas and berries. This will combined with canned fish cover all you mineral and vitamin needs. 

 

If vitamins are what they're concerned about then there's even multi vitamins in game too.

[anderswhk 23]

Can anyone confirm/deny that getting Hydrated+Energized combo has a positive effect on your need to eat? I seem to remember having played for many hours without dropping to hungry or thirsty.

[St. Jimmy 1631]

Can anyone confirm/deny that getting Hydrated+Energized combo has a positive effect on your need to eat? I seem to remember having played for many hours without dropping to hungry or thirsty.

At least well energized is still far from maximum energy limit so that's why you don't see the hungry status very quickly. That's why always eat when it's possible. In experimental it's bit harder I think.

[Whyherro123 2283]

And should it be like you guys praise realistic, hard and gruesome ? Waiting weeks or months for you plants to grow ? 

Because right now we have apples, oranges, zucchini, bananas and berries. This will combined with canned fish cover all you mineral and vitamin needs. 

Oranges, Kiki, and Bananas shouldn't even be in the game, as they are all tropical/semi-tropical fruits. How exactly did they get to Chernarus if there is no international trade?

 

Also, where did you think those apples, zucchini and berries came from? That grocery store that stayed open during the Apocalypse? No, somebody grew them. I have no idea how the devs plan on implementing agriculture, but, no, I don't expect crops to take weeks/months of real-life time to grow. That would be asinine, and detrimental to the game and experience. I do expect, however, that a random starting survivor will have little to no chance to grow food on their own, and would have to rely on foraging/scavenging, at least until they join as group. Pre-Industrial Agriculture is difficult. No machines to break up the ground (although I would expect them to made eventually), no "artificial" (which is how modern farms get such HUMONGOUS yields) fertilizers, and we (read: most modern people) have little experience with agriculture. The only ones who could feasibly make agriculture other than subsistence farming work is large, organized groups, with division of labor.

[anderswhk 23]

At least well energized is still far from maximum energy limit so that's why you don't see the hungry status very quickly. That's why always eat when it's possible. In experimental it's bit harder I think.

 

What i meant is, say that Energized + Hydrated grants you 100% of whatever stat they affect. Going from 100% to 90% feels like it takes longer, than going from 50% to 40%. In other words, hunger level degrade at a slower pace. Once you eat that 1 piece of food that takes you over "the edge" into Energized, you would assume it would take the same time for the Energized icon to disappear, as it takes when you have the hungry icon, eats something so it goes away, only to have Hungry return.. If that makes any sense. I have a hard time explaining this.

 

Thats what it feels like at least, i could be wrong.

Edited October 22, 2014 by anderswhk

[General Zod 1118]

Oranges, Kiki, and Bananas shouldn't even be in the game, as they are all tropical/semi-tropical fruits. How exactly did they get to Chernarus if there is no international trade?

 

Also, where did you think those apples, zucchini and berries came from? That grocery store that stayed open during the Apocalypse? 

Well lets remove all canned food them, there is no international trade, lets remove weapon and item re spawn, there is no trade, no new items are coming. Once server is cleaned up it's stays empty. 

[Whyherro123 2283]

Well lets remove all canned food them, there is no international trade, lets remove weapon and item re spawn, there is no trade, no new items are coming. Once server is cleaned up it's stays empty. 

 

Uh, yes? That is what I would eventually like. It is both realistic, and would add atmosphere to the game.

 

Server starts out full of loot. As people pick it up/use it, it doesn't respawn, with the exception of fruits, vegetables, and animals (AKA agriculture/animal husbandry). This would drive people to use improvised weapons with retrievable/craft-able ammunition (bow/crossbow), melee weapons, and be VERY conserving with firearm ammunition. If you find the materials, you can make new ammunition, and maybe even actual firearms and clothing (those "lathe" buildings would be great!). This would cause groups to form up, both in the form of industry ( food plantations, industrial centers, trading caravans, etc), and in bandits that attack those centers (Bandits knock over a caravan for supplies, attack and hold a plantation and start collecting slaves, etc)

 

This would:

1) Lessen KoS, or at least, give a reason for organized PvP. Now your clan isn't just "fighting to fight", you are "fighting to keep control of your ammunition factory, that brings you in massive profits from trading", or "fighting to defend your farm, that keeps half of Chernarus from clothed and fed", or "fighting to defend your alcohol still, that provides fuel for almost all the vehicles in Chernarus"

2) Add "flavor". Now you aren't just roaming Chernarus aimlessly, searching for a LRS. Now, you are searching for a pristine AKM, so that the factory that sponsored you can copy the pattern (and is paying you very well for your troubles). 

3) give newspawns a fighting chance. Now, if they spawn into a high-pop server, they have little chance if they spawn on and remain on the coast. In my plan, they can run to the nearest settlement and ask for work.

4) Add to roleplaying. Instead of fighting off random bandit clans, now you "are an enlisted soldier of the Berezino Federation, fighting to keep trade routes clear of bandit scum", or a "caravan guard, defending their employer for blood and profit"

 

Plus numerous other reasons.

[General Zod 1118]

This would:

1) Lessen KoS, or at least, give a reason for organized PvP. Now your clan isn't just "fighting to fight", you are "fighting to keep control of your ammunition factory, that brings you in massive profits from trading", or "fighting to defend your farm, that keeps half of Chernarus from clothed and fed", or "fighting to defend your alcohol still, that provides fuel for almost all the vehicles in Chernarus"

2) Add "flavor". Now you aren't just roaming Chernarus aimlessly, searching for a LRS. Now, you are searching for a pristine AKM, so that the factory that sponsored you can copy the pattern (and is paying you very well for your troubles). 

3) give newspawns a fighting chance. Now, if they spawn into a high-pop server, they have little chance if they spawn on and remain on the coast. In my plan, they can run to the nearest settlement and ask for work.

4) Add to roleplaying. Instead of fighting off random bandit clans, now you "are an enlisted soldier of the Berezino Federation, fighting to keep trade routes clear of bandit scum", or a "caravan guard, defending their employer for blood and profit"

 

Plus numerous other reasons.

Noble, but most likely won't happen outside of private survival hermit servers. I just can't imagine people would log into DayZ (FarmZ) to work on a farm. I sure as hell would not. This would be so boring it almost becomes interesting again. Or be someone's errand boy and look for AKM for him. I'm really not good with authority, even more so in games. 

That being said point 4 is not bad. 

 

With all that farming suggestion of yours my signature is just awesome. 

Edited October 22, 2014 by General Zod

[Whyherro123 2283]

Noble, but most likely won't happen outside of private survival hermit servers. I just can't imagine people would log into DayZ (FarmZ) to work on a farm. I sure as hell would not. This would be so boring it almost becomes interesting again. Or be someone's errand boy and look for AKM for him. I'm really not good with authority, even more so in games. 

That being said point 4 is not bad. 

 

With all that farming suggestion of yours my signature is just awesome. 

Then become a bandit, and rob that farm. Knock over that trader caravan, and sell the goods for yourself. Or, take over that factory, smash the machines, and watch prices skyrocket. Then, sell the stock yourself and make a tidy profit.

 

And, you don't have to be good with authority, when the "authority asking you to find an AKM" will pay you in one of your own, as well as magazines and ammunition for it, when you return. And, get this, you don't have to accept the job if you don't want to. They make a job posting (good use for the notes in-game), and interested parties apply.

 

I made the point about freshspawns working because it is inherently realistic. Most of the population post-apocalypse would be involved with food production, with fewer (but still a signifigant amount), involved in industry. Only a few people would be able to afford to fight 24/7. The freshspawn could get a job doing X, then save up enough to afford a firearm and some ammo, then join a caravan/become a bandit/enlist as a soldier.

[General Zod 1118]

I never really cared for farming, but I did kind of expect some player initiated factions. Not game enforced. We'll see, maybe it will happen.