1st person dying breed

[Baker. 1484]

I agree with the comparison with COD.

 

I would like to ask you why you think that having extra-situational awareness is better for the game? A horror survival simulator.

As I stated earlier I find first person claustrophobic. In addition the game mechanics are too, in my opinion, clunky to adapt to first person.

 

I don't think you get to define for the rest of us what constitutes a horror survival simulator. You may, however, define it for yourself and freely play however you wish. Tis the beauty of the sandbox.

[Baker. 1484]

There have been countless examples how it ruins the certain aspects of the game.

 

It is undeniable that wall peeking and seeing over obstacles ruins pvp and stealth in the game.

 

Having two seperate game modes isn't the solution if half the game is still broken.

Examples not put forth by anyone who enjoys 3rd person, a club to which you clearly are not a member. But since there are 1st person only servers you may play all day the way you wish and never have to worry about it. 

 

So it doesn't ruin the game for you, since its happening on some 3rd person server in far away land. 

Edited October 4, 2014 by Bakermensch

[Judopunch 523]

As I stated earlier I find first person claustrophobic. In addition the game mechanics are too, in my opinion, clunky to adapt to first person.

 

I don't think you get to define for the rest of us what constitutes a horror survival simulator. You may, however, define it for yourself and freely play however you wish. Tis the beauty of the sandbox.

Right but the idea of not having omnipotent information about your environment and situation creates 'claustrophobic' feelings. By removing that you are removing fear, uncertainty, things lurking in the distance. 

 

If you mean by 'claustrophobic' that you feel squished against your screen, your field of view needs to be widened as the default is very narrow for a fps.

[Baker. 1484]

Right but the idea of not having omnipotent information about your environment and situation creates 'claustrophobic' feelings. By removing that you are removing fear, uncertainty, things lurking in the distance. 

 

If you mean by 'claustrophobic' that you feel squished against your screen, your field of view needs to be widened as the default is very narrow for a fps.

My field of view is fine.

 

This reply puzzles me considering all of your arguments against 3rd person. Is increasing your fov and 3rd person not different branches of the same tree?

Edited October 4, 2014 by Bakermensch

[kimmaz 63]

I dont care what mode the server is on, as long as it have good ping and many players ill join it. I dont use 3rd person view myself, so for me this is not a big problem.

 

I get that it can in some cases be unfair if another player uses 3rd person, but is that really a problem? I find it very hard to kill zombies in 3rd person, even with a melee weapon,, Try go on a 3rd person server and own some noobs by using 1st person view only! then talk... ^^

 

I know someone might be standing behind a wall and watch over it or around the corner in 3rd person, but to my knowledge they got to be visible to you if they should be able to shoot you. and you should have a fair chance of killing them as well. if you don't, then I would suggest you train your reaction times and aim using counterstrike where your life depends on map awareness and milliseconds of reaction time.

[Judopunch 523]

My field of view is fine.

 

This reply puzzles me considering all of your arguments against 3rd person. Is increasing your fov and 3rd person not different branches of the same tree?

Not even remotely. The fact that third person allows me to lay on the hospital in Electro, watch someone run below me, and shoot them with them having no knowledge of my existance is what bothers me. What bothers me is every standoff in third person is about who can see around the corner or over the wall. It bothers me that if im found by an armed group my chance of escape is greatly diminished because hiding behind walls, fences, bushes becomes impossible.

 

I find it difficult to understand why you equate field of view to omnipiotent knowledge of the environment. I hope my examples above clearly indicate the obvious differences and reasons to prefer first person.

 

However, the next argument that comes up is 'fix it so you cant see around ...' ect ect. There is a fix, remove 3rd person. Every other solution is a hack job at best and creates more problems then it solves.

[Baker. 1484]

Not even remotely. The fact that third person allows me to lay on the hospital in Electro, watch someone run below me, and shoot them with them having no knowledge of my existance is what bothers me. What bothers me is every standoff in third person is about who can see around the corner or over the wall. It bothers me that if im found by an armed group my chance of escape is greatly diminished because hiding behind walls, fences, bushes becomes impossible.

 

I find it difficult to understand why you equate field of view to omnipiotent knowledge of the environment. I hope my examples above clearly indicate the obvious differences and reasons to prefer first person.

 

However, the next argument that comes up is 'fix it so you cant see around ...' ect ect. There is a fix, remove 3rd person. Every other solution is a hack job at best and creates more problems then it solves.

I guess we will have to agree to disagree.

 

And if this were true this thread wouldn't exist since people would be obviously preferring first person. This was the same with the mod BTW 1st person servers where an after thought since the obviously preferred way to play is 3rd person.

 

Fact is most people don't like 1st person which makes  this something that is never going to happen. 

[Judopunch 523]

I guess we will have to agree to disagree.

 

And if this were true this thread wouldn't exist since people would be obviously preferring first person. This was the same with the mod BTW 1st person servers where an after thought since the obviously preferred way to play is 3rd person.

 

Fact is most people don't like 1st person which makes  this something that is never going to happen. 

I believe that good or bad, given the choice most people will take the easy road that makes them feel powerful. I also believe that if the game had been released with only first person it would still remain just as popular.

 

Are you saying that you prefer all of the detriments to third person simply because you like to have an omnipotent view? You clearly are avoiding addressing my points as to why third person is harmful to DayZ's game design by spamming your color'd text button and saying 'people like it'. 

[Baker. 1484]

I believe that good or bad, given the choice most people will take the easy road that makes them feel powerful. I also believe that if the game had been released with only first person it would still remain just as popular.

 

Are you saying that you prefer all of the detriments to third person simply because you like to have an omnipotent view? You clearly are avoiding addressing my points as to why third person is harmful to DayZ's game design by spamming your color'd text button and saying 'people like it'. 

I guess we will have to agree to disagree. As you feel disagreement is failure to address your "points".

[dromagewok@hotmail.com 164]

I guess we will have to agree to disagree.

 

 This was the same with the mod BTW 1st person servers where an after thought since the obviously preferred way to play is 3rd person.

 

There were "hardcore" (first person only servers) from the earliest days of the mod, it was not an afterthought.

 

3pp servers are simply more popular because it is easier. People will always gravitate towards things that make it easier, especially in a survival simulator.

Edited October 4, 2014 by dromag67

[Baker. 1484]

There were "hardcore" (first person only servers) from the earliest days of the mod, it was not an afterthought.

 

3pp servers are simply more popular because it is easier. People will always gravitate towards things that make it easier, especially in a survival simulator.

 

My intention was state that the players felt it was so, not that setting the server on "mercenary" was something they put in after development started since, after all, it is an arma 2 server side setting. 

And I never found it "harder" especially since those servers were always empty.

[roguetrooper 201]

There should be only one type of server. One unified view mode: 3rdp being available.

 

But:

 

* you can't do anything except moving and looking (maybe even in upright posture only)

* no HUD (not even crosshair), no hotbar

* no inventory interaction, no environment interaction

* no shooting, no reloading, no dropping

* the screen fades slowly out and in for a few seconds while you switch view modes and you can't move meanwhile

[Judopunch 523]

I guess we will have to agree to disagree. As you feel disagreement is failure to address your "points".

I would challenge you to convince me why its preferable to be able to lay on a rooftop and only expose myself to targets miliseconds before I kill them.

 

I would challenge you to convince me that your lack of claustrophobia is preferable to actual tactical and stealth driven game play.

 

Disagreeing with me does not address these points, or facilitate my understanding of your preference.

 

This then leads me to believe that you simply like an easier, less rich, watered down game. Where the aforementioned, addressed, points left from our discussion.

[Baker. 1484]

I would challenge you to convince me why its preferable to be able to lay on a rooftop and only expose myself to targets miliseconds before I kill them.

 

I would challenge you to convince me that your lack of claustrophobia is preferable to actual tactical and stealth driven game play.

 

Disagreeing with me does not address these points, or facilitate my understanding of your preference.

 

This then leads me to believe that you simply like an easier, less rich, watered down game. Where the aforementioned, addressed, points left from our discussion.

I would challenge you to read this:

I guess we will have to agree to disagree

Edited October 4, 2014 by Bakermensch

[Baker. 1484]

There should be only one type of server. One unified view mode: 3rdp being available.

 

But:

 

* you can't do anything except moving and looking (maybe even in upright posture only)

* no HUD (not even crosshair), no hotbar

* no inventory interaction, no environment interaction

* no shooting, no reloading, no dropping

* the screen fades slowly out and in for a few seconds while you switch view modes and you can't move meanwhile

Interesting

[dromagewok@hotmail.com 164]

My intention was state that the players felt it was so, not that setting the server on "mercenary" was something they put in after development started since, after all, it is an arma 2 server side setting. 

And I never found it "harder" especially since those servers were always empty.

 

Arma is quite unique in its ability to be modified in whatever way you want. Just because you CAN doesn't make it GOOD.

 

1PP is a more difficult experience in a firefight or exploring cities and buildings when you don't know whats around the next corner.

 

It's going to be hard to argue that the ability to see over walls and around corners doesn't make it easier to avoid contact.

[Judopunch 523]

I would challenge you to read this:

I guess we will have to agree to disagree

This is truly sad. You have not further convinced me that only people who want an exploitable, peak around corners, stealth-less game, with no repercussions to actions because of gained omnipotent knowledge want to play third person.

 

You have convinced me that the experience I have when I play in first person is far richer and superior, and that I should still champion the developers to remove the omnipotent view mode because it is contrary to having a survival simulator.

 

Edited October 4, 2014 by Judopunch

[Baker. 1484]

Arma is quite unique in its ability to be modified in whatever way you want. Just because you CAN doesn't make it GOOD.

 

1PP is a more difficult experience in a firefight or exploring cities and buildings when you don't know whats around the next corner.

 

It's going to be hard to argue that the ability to see over walls and around corners doesn't make it easier to avoid contact.

I could agree it would be "easier" were the playing field not level, if some where playing 1st person and others 3rd on the same server. This thread is a wonderful example of why they have separated the two game modes. It allows for both sides to play as they wish. Why one would care how the other plays is beyond me.

[Red_Ensign 990]

relax, people.  some people like playing one way, some like it the other way.  I play both.

 

what we lose if we lose hardcore is two games for the price of one.

[Baker. 1484]

This is truly sad. You have not further convinced me that only people who want an exploitable, peak around corners, stealth-less game, with no repercussions to actions because of gained omnipotent knowledge want to play third person.

 

You have convinced me that the experience I have when I play in first person is far richer and superior, and that I should still champion the developers to remove the omnipotent view mode because it is contrary to having a survival simulator.

I guess we will have to agree to disagree

Edited October 4, 2014 by Bakermensch

[Judopunch 523]

I could agree it would be "easier" were the playing field not level, if some where playing 1st person and others 3rd on the same server. This thread is a wonderful example of why they have separated the two game modes. It allows for both sides to play as they wish. Why one would care how the other plays is beyond me.

 

 

3pp servers are simply more popular because it is easier. People will always gravitate towards things that make it easier, especially in a survival simulator.

[Baker. 1484]

 

Judo. 

 

I guess we will have to agree to disagree. Try it. We can have different viewpoints.

Edited October 4, 2014 by Bakermensch

[dromagewok@hotmail.com 164]

I could agree it would be "easier" were the playing field not level, if some where playing 1st person and others 3rd on the same server. This thread is a wonderful example of why they have separated the two game modes. It allows for both sides to play as they wish. Why one would care how the other plays is beyond me.

There are many times you can see over walls where the other person cannot or around corners where the other person cannot, it is most definitely not a level playing field and to even consider it as one is disingenuous.

 

I care about the situation because that of all the ways that people can die in DayZ, WHY would you ever want to put yourself in a position where someone can gain an unfair advantage over you is beyond me. With the new inventory in the standalone you have a great way of being able to see your gear on your character, there is even less of a reason to play 3pp now than there was in the mod.

 

Eventually with mods anyone will be able to create the experience they desire but I think the question here is:

 

Does a vanilla DayZ survival experience suffer from the ability to constantly exploit a camera system to gain an unfair advantage?

[Baker. 1484]

There are many times you can see over walls where the other person cannot or around corners where the other person cannot, it is most definitely not a level playing field and to even consider it as one is disingenuous.

 

I care about the situation because that of all the ways that people can die in DayZ, WHY would you ever want to put yourself in a position where someone can gain an unfair advantage over you is beyond me. With the new inventory in the standalone you have a great way of being able to see your gear on your character, there is even less of a reason to play 3pp now than there was in the mod.

 

Eventually with mods anyone will be able to create the experience they desire but I think the question here is:

 

Does a vanilla DayZ survival experience suffer from the ability to constantly exploit a camera system to gain an unfair advantage?

But this doesn't affect you if you are on a first person only server. Those who play 3rd person accept this. So everybody gets what they want. This whole thing reminds me of "Body Rituals Among the Nacirema"

[dromagewok@hotmail.com 164]

But this doesn't affect you if you are on a first person only server. Those who play 3rd person accept this. So everybody gets what they want. This whole thing reminds me of "Body Rituals Among the Nacirema"

 

It does affect me when 90% of the DayZ community prefers exploits. It's not easy to find decent low ping 1pp servers that are populated and will be even more difficult to find a good community when private shards are released. Which I believe is the topic of this thread if I'm not mistaken. Which goes back to the original thought that people prefer 3pp because it is basically "Easy Mode".

Edited October 4, 2014 by dromag67