Sandbox, "innovative" or "Undeveloped"

[epyionic 29]

This game looks so much like Freelancer, and that was actually a great multi-player game...damn...I didn't knew that it was the same guy making this game...this one is going to be great.

Im expecting alot from start citizen, but with 60,000,000$ in community backing(And still growing).

no release date set. No publishers or companys forcing them to cut short, and the fact that they are not even looking at consoles (becuase consoles could never support this game style) I honestly believe this will bring in a entire new era of gaming, and will be the new bar by which just about every other game is judged by.

 

[Evil Minion 943]

So...is this "new" concept revolutionary... or an "Undeveloped" concept .. or do i dare to say... "lazy". ?

Really depends on the size of your sandbox. Not having to worry that much about story, quests, dialogues, Human AI etc. opens up a lot of resources for other things. Mainly providing options, things to do and to explore, crafting options, roleplay hooks, cooperative goals, and complex in depth game mechanics. Giving the players many options while also looking after the overall dynamics is hardly lazy but rather innovative in that you do not force players into something but rather provide a framework and let them do their stuff.

 

Though to be fair DayZ is not innovative because its supposed to be a sandbox (Minecraft was there before). The innovation here is to scrap gamification and bring back the concept of an unforgiving game that does not hold your hand and does not tell you how to play.

 

Whether the game turns out "un(der)developed" depends on the eventual size of the sandbox. If it has noticable less features, options and mechanics than a comparable game with storylines and dialogue (take Skyrim as reference) then it is. If it has significantly more depth then it is not. Also things like animations and animal AI (zombies may stay dumb) are still important. In the end it depends on the way its implemented and the complexicity involved.

[PongoZ 127]

I do not think there is anything lazy in aiming for a game that relies on the interplay of motivations and capabilities of the players for a conflict instead of a script.

It is very challenging, especially at this map scale.

[sinkatze 52]

I didn't really vote because its not that easy one sided choice.
A successful game like Minecraft for example was innovative not only because of its gameplay, but also because it gave you all the right tools to live that sandbox experience. Don't confuse with games that say they are sandbox and its completely crap.

DayZ doesn't have campaign, missions, cut-scenes. But just as Minecraft, It gives you the tools to do what you want.

[xalienax 621]

I always been wondering what people truly thinks about this new "sandbox" concept, I already seen two companies trying this... CCP and now Bohemia Interactive.

 

This idea of making a game in which you can do whatever you want, with as little rules as possible..seems to be a restrictive, incomplete and undeveloped concept. It feels like developers are using this idea as an excuse to skip things like, Story, Cut scenes, Missions, Plot, Skills tress, Animations, Voice Overs, Dialogues, AI development... in other words... about 60-70% of a normal game development.

 

So...is this "new" concept revolutionary... or an "Undeveloped" concept .. or do i dare to say... "lazy". ?

First, EVE: Online is an amazing game. its what every 'sandbox' game should aspire to. all aspects of of the game from production, to economics, to politics, etc ALL 100% in the hands of the players. Yes, like every game it has flaws, and for better or worse it allows YOU to choose your OWN path. completely unscripted, un-regulated. you can lie, steal, greif, infiltrate, Meta-Game, Manipulate markets by attacking suppliers of a certain resource. it is by NO MEANS Underdeveloped.

 

That said, Sand-box isn't the right choice for every game. and some employ it better then others. I think as players tho, we need to get away from the force-fed narritive expereinces that AAA titles have been shoving in our faces and start seeing (well made) sandbox games as an opportunity- for those with teh time, comitment, and intelligence to thrive and find ways to play the game world to THIER advantage. I don't think we can really say how well dayZ fit's into this scheme tho untill we see the finished product.

[Cpanther 221]

First, EVE: Online is an amazing game. its what every 'sandbox' game should aspire to. all aspects of of the game from production, to economics, to politics, etc ALL 100% in the hands of the players. Yes, like every game it has flaws, and for better or worse it allows YOU to choose your OWN path. completely unscripted, un-regulated. you can lie, steal, greif, infiltrate, Meta-Game, Manipulate markets by attacking suppliers of a certain resource. it is by NO MEANS Underdeveloped.

 

That said, Sand-box isn't the right choice for every game. and some employ it better then others. I think as players tho, we need to get away from the force-fed narritive expereinces that AAA titles have been shoving in our faces and start seeing (well made) sandbox games as an opportunity- for those with teh time, comitment, and intelligence to thrive and find ways to play the game world to THIER advantage. I don't think we can really say how well dayZ fit's into this scheme tho untill we see the finished product.

 

But EvE online "was" amazing back in the days.. and was mostly because the scope of the game, huge universe, massive open world, great graphics.. blah, blah, blah....but this days, not so much..EvE have practically zero new player retention, and the game is extremely out of date with the game mechanics... EvE isn't a great game any more..just a "shadow" of another era. 

 

What worries me is that BI is using EvE as a reference point...and all that ideas and concepts are over 10 years old.

[Deathlove 2286]

I just put for mine "underdeveloped" but i believe its still developing as a game. There are many things that need to be improved that will be improved in time. Thats not to say the game isn't good its got allot going for it. It just needs to "mature". And they did say a game like this normally takes a full three years of closed game testing before it ever goes public as a full game.

Edited October 1, 2014 by Deathlove

[xalienax 621]

But EvE online "was" amazing back in the days.. and was mostly because the scope of the game, huge universe, massive open world, great graphics.. blah, blah, blah....but this days, not so much..EvE have practically zero new player retention, and the game is extremely out of date with the game mechanics... EvE isn't a great game any more..just a "shadow" of another era. 

 

What worries me is that BI is using EvE as a reference point...and all that ideas and concepts are over 10 years old.

Old doesn't mean bad mate. EvE's formula works for EvE's players. It's a game about spending months and years building something up and progressing, cooperations, conflict, and betrayls. Eve still routinely hits 35-40k online. the fact that those who DO stick with ti often do so for many years is testiment to the fact that it does what ti does very, very well. it's definately NOT 'everyones game' and that's a good thing.

 

The recent incidents of B-R5RB and -6VDT (and the fact that THOUSANDS of PLAYERS were involved) in the biggest battles of online gaming anywhere speaks volumes to that. As i said, it's NOT perfect. the "new player" expereince could use a TON of work- but to enjoy eve you need enormously long-term goals as a driving motivation. You start to think of EVE the way you do a career or such IRL. eg "One day i want to..." or "If i try real hard maybe in several years..."

 

The real lessons to take from it, IMHO anyways, is that time and time again EPIC conflicts and stories have arisen from 100% un-scripted, un-planned events (as a result of emergent player interactions- not AI or scripted/planned events/storyline). and that's a direct result of the Hands-Off management philosophy and putting nearly everythign in the hands of the playerbase. Newer games looking to the 'sandbox' design could do a lot to learn from EVE. it's deep, with intricate mechanics that take literally YEARS to learn and put to practical use. A sandbox game isn't just the playable "physical space" but also the depth and investement into the mechanics.

[georgiapeach 34]

...

When all of this including optimization is complete we will have an amazing atmosphere built from the very simplest of mechanics that are still not utilized by other games (no health bar, easy to die and high adrenaline fire fights due to the "perma death" mechanic of losing all loot upon death) and advanced mechanics (horticulture , working food chain of animals , locking/barricade system, construction system, vehicle repair and maintenance) that although some are in other games , they still won't match the feel of the same mechanics in dayz simply because dayz took it's time to make the gameplay so much more immersive , intense , realistic , and detailed oriented than the dayz mod or any crappy linear objective based game out there .

...

 

like the post but you said something bad about dayz (mod) and so i just boo you.

 

*boohhhh*

 

dayz (mod) has gone a long way and is right now so great in regards of immersion and intensity.

i am not sure if SA will catch up to it ever.

 

to sad that the hyve went over board the moment dayz reached absolute greatness.

 

 

not quite sure what you mean with details that are missing in dayz (mod).

a million helmets and hats might be very detailed still does not make the game better for me.

 

maybe you can elaborate a bit that i get the point?

[georgiapeach 34]

Im expecting alot from start citizen, but with 60,000,000$ in community backing(And still growing).

no release date set. No publishers or companys forcing them to cut short, and the fact that they are not even looking at consoles (becuase consoles could never support this game style) I honestly believe this will bring in a entire new era of gaming, and will be the new bar by which just about every other game is judged by.

 

 

*fingers crossed*

[scriptfactory 620]

I don't think we have seen true innovation in the sandbox/open-world genre yet. Games like DayZ SA are incredibly derivative of previous titles. I say this because it brings little to the table that we haven't seen before and, based simply on the list of desired features I have seen, it never will.

 

At its core DayZ is simply a realistic version of Minecraft with guns and the possibility to torture other players. Compared to other games in the zombie-horror genre it is even lacking. The only thing I have seen that will, eventually, differentiate DayZ from other zombie games is the focus on survival and modding that BIS wants to bring. If they do not bring an extensive survival experience and/or excellent modding tools DayZ SA will have the same CCUs as DayZ Mod in 2 years. The competition is just too strong.

So, I say, bring on the harsh conditions necessary for a survival game. Ignore the tears from KoSers and deathmatchers. I want to play a fair, but unforgiving, zombie survival horror game like I was promised.

[Jex 1104]

I always been wondering what people truly thinks about this new "sandbox" concept, I already seen two companies trying this... CCP and now Bohemia Interactive.

 

This idea of making a game in which you can do whatever you want, with as little rules as possible..seems to be a restrictive, incomplete and undeveloped concept. It feels like developers are using this idea as an excuse to skip things like, Story, Cut scenes, Missions, Plot, Skills tress, Animations, Voice Overs, Dialogues, AI development... in other words... about 60-70% of a normal game development.

 

So...is this "new" concept revolutionary... or an "Undeveloped" concept .. or do i dare to say... "lazy". ?

 

But you can't do whatever you want. It's not a sandbox game because what you can do is finite. Minecraft is a sandbox game because you can pretty much do anything in that.

[ebrim 998]

Damn kids these days want someone to hold their hand and tell them what to do all the time. :p

 

Seriously though, I'm not sure it has to be innovative or "lazy" because I don't think it's either. There are people out there who like open-world games, DayZ is just a slightly more exaggerated form of an open-world game. It doesn't really have to be any more than that.