The 'war on snipers'

[Evil Minion 943]

This is just a wall of dumb.

"Hey - I got no more arguments so I am going to insult people who disagree with me!"

Sorry, but you just confirmed that you are a 1337sn!p0rkid who is crying because shooting people over long distances is not easymode anymore.

Sway for me isn't "ridiculous" - if its for you you are most likely out of breath, in pain or expect the bipod to reduce sway (now the bipod should not fit on a Mosin in the first place). It seems to be much because of the LRS zoom factor but it is not. You are also completely missing the point: Why would a game like DayZ have unrealistically easy sniping? Sorry, its not about hurting you or your favorite playstyle its about not giving you an advantage you shouldn't have. Then you are talking about weapon damage - again in a self-centered way because weapon damage does not only affect snipers. It should depend on both the cartridge fired and the weapon used (a longer barrel increases bullet speed/energy as does a - high quality - manual action).

And please stop thinking that everyone who disagrees with you just wants your favorite playstyle nerfed to hurt you. I couldn't care less about your personal feelings here.

Edited September 8, 2014 by Evil Minion

[Etherimp 1323]

The only one avoiding anything here is you. I've submitted an argument, you've refused to rebut it and veered off into this new direction, simply repeating your stance and mixing in some terrible logic about how no one could ever argue for sniping simply because they consider it a fun part of the game.

 

 

What's your argument exactly? There's too much sway?

Fix your fucking arm, then come back and talk to me. Aside from 7.62 damage being shitty and taking 3-4 body shots to kill a fully geared player, I think sniping is fine. I also agree about making the MOA accurate to real life.. I'd be fine with that. But you don't want to get into an argument with me about weapon sway. I'm sitting in TS with a US Marine at the moment.

 

Sniping is inherently imbalanced. You can't deny it. Stop talking out of your ass.

[trtk 81]

"Hey - I got no more arguments so I am going to insult people who disagree with me!"

Sorry, but you just confirmed that you are a 1337sn!p0rkid who is crying because shooting people over long distances is not easymode anymore.

Sway for me isn't "ridiculous" - if its for you you are most likely out of breath, in pain or expect the bipod to reduce sway (now the bipod should not fit on a Mosin in the first place). It seems to be much because of the LRS zoom factor but it is not. You are also completely missing the point: Why would a game like DayZ have unrealistically easy sniping? Sorry, its not about hurting you or your favorite playstyle its about not giving you an advantage you shouldn't have. Then you are talking about weapon damage - again in a self-centered way because weapon damage does not only affect snipers. It should depend on both the cartridge fired and the weapon used (a longer barrel increases bullet speed/energy as does a - high quality - manual action).

And please stop thinking that everyone who disagrees with you just wants your favorite playstyle nerfed to hurt you. I couldn't care less about your personal feelings here.

Repeating yourself and stirring in some personal attacks isn't the same thing as making a new argument. Please submit some points I haven't already countered.

 

 

What's your argument exactly? There's too much sway?

Fix your fucking arm, then come back and talk to me. Aside from 7.62 damage being shitty and taking 3-4 body shots to kill a fully geared player, I think sniping is fine. I also agree about making the MOA accurate to real life.. I'd be fine with that. But you don't want to get into an argument with me about weapon sway. I'm sitting in TS with a US Marine at the moment.

 

Sniping is inherently imbalanced. You can't deny it. Stop talking out of your ass.

 

 

My argument is accessible in the OP if you need to refer back to it. The sway is far too much whether you have perfectly healthy arms or not, and no amount of appeals to authority (your marine friend) will change the fact that long rifles DO NOT behave like that in real life. There is almost zero sway, and truly zero if there is a bipod involved or it is propped up against some mounded earth.

 

The only argument you have any hope of succeeding with is that sniping needs to remain gimped for balance reasons, because realism is absolutely not on your side in this case. And the fact is that sniping was balanced well in the mod. An important point is that in the mod, assault rifles could return fire accurately on snipers and suppress or kill them, while there's no hope of that in the standalone because of the sway and dispersion.

Edited September 8, 2014 by trtk

[General Zod 1114]

They way I see it :

Rifles themselves should pin point accurate, and dealing high damage when you score a hit.

The sniping mechanics should be as difficult as they are in real life, the bigger the magnification the greater the sway, taking things like wind, and his movement speed into account.

 

Long story short 

Sniping should be hard, but rewarding if done correctly. 

 

@Etherimp

Fact: Shooting someone and instantly killing them from 400 meters gives them no opportunity to respond or react and instantly ends their characters life.

 

That's whole damn point of sniping in the first place, to kill without endangering yourself. 

 

It was already said, you do not fight snipers directly when they are in position, you avoid giving them clear shot. Take cover, run in zig zags, keep your head low or you'll lose it. 

And if you are not advocating removing sniping than what is the purpose of your posts ? Is just to whine ? Or what ?

Snipers will snipe, deal with it. 

If you run into a sniper at 400m there isn't much you can do, if a sniper runs into you at 10m there isn't much he can do. That's how it is. 

[Etherimp 1323]

Repeating yourself and stirring in some personal attacks isn't the same thing as making a new argument. Please submit some points I haven't already countered.

 

 

I already have. You haven't countered them. You're the one repeating yourself and resorting to personal attacks like insinuating that I'm dumbly running across an airfield or that this guy posted a "wall of dumb", without really properly responding to it.

 

I think everyone should just move along and let this thread die. This guy is clearly trolling at this point.

[pilgrim* 3513]

Snipers have been around for a long time in the real world

everyone knows what a pisser they are and what to do to keep out of their scopes

- or try

( you don't walk down the middle of the street if there could possibly be snipers around, right ? which is like .. always ? )

 

some people in this thread seem to think snipers have just been invented for DayZ

historically, sniping has always got folk extremely worked up, one way or the other

 

whatever ..

 

 

have fun

Edited September 9, 2014 by pilgrim

[trtk 81]

I already have. You haven't countered them. You're the one repeating yourself and resorting to personal attacks like insinuating that I'm dumbly running across an airfield or that this guy posted a "wall of dumb", without really properly responding to it.

 

I think everyone should just move along and let this thread die. This guy is clearly trolling at this point.

 

You'll note that I quoted someone in that post, and it wasn't you. Scroll up - I've quoted you now and responded to your post there.

[Etherimp 1323]

They way I see it :

Rifles themselves should pin point accurate, and dealing high damage when you score a hit.

The sniping mechanics should be as difficult as they are in real life, the bigger the magnification the greater the sway, taking things like wind, and his movement speed into account.

 

Long story short 

Sniping should be hard, but rewarding if done correctly. 

 

@Etherimp

Fact: Shooting someone and instantly killing them from 400 meters gives them no opportunity to respond or react and instantly ends their characters life.

 

That's whole damn point of sniping in the first place, to kill without endangering yourself. 

 

It was already said, you do not fight snipers directly when they are in position, you avoid giving them clear shot. Take cover, run in zig zags, keep your head low or you'll lose it. 

And if you are not advocating removing sniping than what is the purpose of your posts ? Is just to whine ? Or what ?

Snipers will snipe, deal with it. 

If you run into a sniper at 400m there isn't much you can do, if a sniper runs into you at 10m there isn't much he can do. That's how it is. 

 

I agree with you. I'm not advocating removing sniping. But it IS AN IMBALANCED GAME MECHANIC. There is no counter-play for it. I'm talking in game-design terms here. I am not saying I think they should MAKE it balanced, I'm just saying that's how developers think and that's how developers make games. 

Sniping is NOT a fun mechanic for someone getting sniped.

Sniping is not FAIR for the person being sniped.

 

Sniping *IS* a very powerful tactic.

Sniping *IS* by it's very nature imbalanced. 

[Etherimp 1323]

You'll note that I quoted someone in that post, and it wasn't you. Scroll up - I've quoted you now and responded to your post there.

 

 

I have no problem keeping up. thanks.

[trtk 81]

I agree with you. I'm not advocating removing sniping. But it IS AN IMBALANCED GAME MECHANIC. There is no counter-play for it. I'm talking in game-design terms here. I am not saying I think they should MAKE it balanced, I'm just saying that's how developers think and that's how developers make games. 

Sniping is NOT a fun mechanic for someone getting sniped.

Sniping is not FAIR for the person being sniped.

 

Sniping *IS* a very powerful tactic.

Sniping *IS* by it's very nature imbalanced. 

 

No matter how much you repeat that it isn't fair and that it's imbalanced, it won't become any more true.

Edited September 8, 2014 by trtk

[Etherimp 1323]

No matter how much you repeat that it isn't fair and that it's imbalanced, it won't become any more true.

 

 

No matter how much you deny that it's imbalanced, it won't become any more true.

 

Two can play at this game.

 

 

Go watch me 1 shot kill 5 dudes in a row and tell me you think that's balanced.

Edited September 8, 2014 by Etherimp

[trtk 81]

No matter how much you deny that it's imbalanced, it won't become any more true.

 

Two can play at this game.

 

The important distinction is that I was the last person to rebut your points and put forward some of my own. I am still waiting on them to be countered, while you have returned to plainly shouting that sniping is imbalanced with no argument to support that claim.

[Etherimp 1323]

The important distinction is that I was the last person to rebut your points and put forward some of my own. I am still waiting on them to be countered, while you have returned to plainly shouting that sniping is imbalanced with no argument to support that claim.

 

 

I've already rebutted your points and made points of my own. Please, tell me what your exact argument is. I've asked twice now and you haven't responded.

 

 

Are you saying weapon sway is too great?

[Grimey Rick 3417]

There

And no mosin ammo is not very rare, not that you need more than 40-60 of them anyway, and that's if you live long enough. 

Not to mention that shooting at 500m should be difficult, since you are holding the rifle in your hands, it's not rested on something. It's not like in the move "Shooter" when the guy stands on a fucking boat on a middle of lake holding a rifle in his hands and lands head shots. 

Damage absorption and any dispersion are a different story. 

 

Ain't nothin' realistic 'bout a varmint tusslin' wit' 'is rifle try'n'a make a shot 200 yards out, I reckon. Why, I reckon I could learn m'youngin' how to keep'er steady long 'nuff t' make a shot that far out, I could.

 

Translation: There's nothing realistic about someone struggling to make a 182.88 meter shot who has enough experience to load and maintain his gun. My thirteen year old son can make shots that far with relative ease, and he's only been shooting for a little over a year.

 

Our sights should be quite steady when holding a gun while healthy. As long as we're not out of breath, there's absolutely no reason for your gun to do a constant figure eight. The developers need to make shooting targets at longer ranges more difficult by adding a better bullet drop system, wind interference, fatigue after holding your gun erect for a period of time, etc. If you're using a bipod, you shouldn't have any sway.

[General Zod 1114]

I agree with you. I'm not advocating removing sniping. But it IS AN IMBALANCED GAME MECHANIC. There is no counter-play for it. I'm talking in game-design terms here. I am not saying I think they should MAKE it balanced, I'm just saying that's how developers think and that's how developers make games. 

Sniping is NOT a fun mechanic for someone getting sniped.

Sniping is not FAIR for the person being sniped.

 

Sniping *IS* a very powerful tactic.

Sniping *IS* by it's very nature imbalanced. 

Nor should it be, this is not CS, this is dayz 

You know what else is an imbalanced game mechanics ? That I spawn hungry, and defenceless. While someone who had some luck is well armed. 

That's the thing about dayz, there is no fair, there is no balanced, there is not counter play, this is not that type of game. This is a game where when opponent has a better gun, better position or he saw you first you are royally fucked, no two ways about that. 

 

 

Ain't nothin' realistic 'bout a varmint tusslin' wit' 'is rifle try'n'a make a shot 200 yards out, I reckon. Why, I reckon I could learn m'youngin' how to keep'er steady long 'nuff t' make a shot that far out, I could.

 

Translation: There's nothing realistic about someone struggling to make a 182.88 meter shot who has enough experience to load and maintain his gun. My thirteen year old son can make shots that far with relative ease, and he's only been shooting for a little over a year.

 

Our sights should be quite steady when holding a gun while healthy. As long as we're not out of breath, there's absolutely no reason for your gun to do a constant figure eight. The developers need to make shooting targets at longer ranges more difficult by adding a better bullet drop system, wind interference, fatigue after holding your gun erect for a period of time, etc. If you're using a bipod, you shouldn't have any sway.

Shooting below 200 - 300 meters is dayz is easy, very easy. The hard mode starts above 400 - 500 meters. 

If you miss a standing guy at 200 meters you should throw your mosin away and do the walk of shame. 

Edited September 8, 2014 by General Zod

[Evil Minion 943]

Please submit some points I haven't already countered.

Like, say... the whole topic?

Your "arguments" are:

• "I like sniping."
• "I want it to be a viable tactic."
• "I feel personally attacked when sniping gets nerfed."
• "Your arguments don't count because only my arguments count."

[Khanarac 252]

You'll see. Once the doubleholdbreath bug gets fixed, no one will hit anything. Because the sway is just too ridicolous. And everyone knows that. Any experienced Pvp player will tell you that they basicly only shoot with doubleholdbreath. And I don't mean the noobs in berenzino. The ones at the NWA know, because they shoot longer distances.

 

However, I'm kind of confident they will realize that. Esp after the bugfix, Sacriel will scream it into their ears.

 

Meanwhile, playing the mod...

Edited September 8, 2014 by Khanarac

[trtk 81]

Ain't nothin' realistic 'bout a varmint tusslin' wit' 'is rifle try'n'a make a shot 200 yards out, I reckon. Why, I reckon I could learn m'youngin' how to keep'er steady long 'nuff t' make a shot that far out, I could.

 

Translation: There's nothing realistic about someone struggling to make a 182.88 meter shot who has enough experience to load and maintain his gun. My thirteen year old son can make shots that far with relative ease, and he's only been shooting for a little over a year.

 

Our sights should be quite steady when holding a gun while healthy. As long as we're not out of breath, there's absolutely no reason for your gun to do a constant figure eight. The developers need to make shooting targets at longer ranges more difficult by adding a better bullet drop system, wind interference, fatigue after holding your gun erect for a period of time, etc. If you're using a bipod, you shouldn't have any sway.

Personally, I think their biggest mistake was having the first, and likely what will remain the most prevalent sniper, have two scope options that both have zeroing. Zeroing makes sniping too casual. The first sniper, and the most common one, should have been something with mildots. Something that takes a minimum of skill and knowledge to use, and which takes a moment to acquire range, rather than the current easy-peasy solution of pressing pageup until the desired range is reached.

[Etherimp 1323]

Nor should it be, this is not CS, this is dayz 

You know what else is an imbalanced game mechanics ? That I spawn hungry, and defenceless. While someone who had some luck is well armed. 

That's the thing about dayz, there is no fair, there is no balanced, there is not counter play, this is not that type of game. This is a game where when opponent has a better gun, better position or he saw you first you are royally fucked, no two ways about that. 

 

 

And I don't disagree with anything about that.. You're at least admitting that AS A GAME MECHANIC, sniping is imbalanced. I'm not saying I want it changed.

 

What I AM saying, is that I'm fine with weapon sway.

 

Assuming your arm is not broken, and you hold your breath on your shot, the crosshair stands perfectly still.

[Etherimp 1323]

You'll see. Once the doubleholdbreath bug gets fixed, no one will hit anything. Because the sway is just too ridicolous. And everyone knows that. Any experienced Pvp player will tell you that they basicly only shoot with doubleholdbreath. And I don't mean the noobs in berenzino. The ones at the NWA know, because they shoot longer distances.

 

However, I'm kind of confident they will realize that. Esp after the bugfix, Sacriel will scream it into their ears.

 

Meanwhile, playing the mod...

 

 

I never used the Double-hold-breath key, and I snipe people all the time.. And I'm not a casual berezino kiddy.. and I've got plenty of mosin kills.

Edited September 8, 2014 by Etherimp

[trtk 81]

And I don't disagree with anything about that.. You're at least admitting that AS A GAME MECHANIC, sniping is imbalanced. I'm not saying I want it changed.

 

What I AM saying, is that I'm fine with weapon sway.

 

Assuming your arm is not broken, and you hold your breath on your shot, the crosshair stands perfectly still.

 

No it doesn't. Not even with a bugged breathhold does it do that.

[Etherimp 1323]

No it doesn't. Not even with a bugged breathhold does it do that.

 

 

Yeah, it does.. And I have video proof of it. Your arm is/was broken, or you did not hold your breath, or you were out of breath from running. Trust me, you're mistaken here and arguing on  stubbornness  alone. 

[trtk 81]

Yeah, it does.. And I have video proof of it. Your arm is/was broken, or you did not hold your breath, or you were out of breath from running. Trust me, you're mistaken here and arguing on  stubbornness  alone. 

 

I just used a splint and tested this myself after you mentioned broken arms. It is wrong.

[Etherimp 1323]

I just used a splint and tested this myself after you mentioned broken arms. It is wrong.

 

 

Newp... Crosshair doesn't sway if you have no broken/fractured limbs, you're not out of breath, and you're laying prone and briefly press "hold breath".. Granted, after a few seconds of holding breath, your crosshair will start to sway again because your character has to catch his breath.

 

Do me a favor, go into your control settings and remove "hold breath" from mouse-button 2.

 

Now move "hold breath" to another key, preferably on your keyboard (I use left-ALT)

 

Now lay prone, catch your breath, and aim at a distant zombie.

 

Zero accordingly.

 

Press "Hold breath"

 

Adjust your aim to the zombies head

 

Fire.

 

Your shots will be dead accurate every time. 

[trtk 81]

Newp... Crosshair doesn't sway if you have no broken/fractured limbs, you're not out of breath, and you're laying prone and briefly press "hold breath".. Granted, after a few seconds of holding breath, your crosshair will start to sway again because your character has to catch his breath.

 

Do me a favor, go into your control settings and remove "hold breath" from mouse-button 2.

 

Now move "hold breath" to another key, preferably on your keyboard (I use left-ALT)

 

Now lay prone, catch your breath, and aim at a distant zombie.

 

Zero accordingly.

 

Press "Hold breath"

 

Adjust your aim to the zombies head

 

Fire.

 

Your shots will be dead accurate every time. 

 

I am not going to argue this point with you any more, and I'm not sure why you're lying so bold-facedly. Maybe you think you will convince some people too lazy to go check for themselves.