Anti tank rifles

[Chaingunfighter 917]

I'd like to see all manner of anti-tank rifles. I'd like the see the 20mm Lahti and the Solothurn, and the PTRS-41, a repeating 14.5 rifle like an over-sized SKS.

 

Keep it to a basic 20mm, 14.5mm and .50 cal for logistics, of course. (The .50cal being modern anti-material rifles and the Boys). Vehicles will be a major part of the game, and these rifles make things interesting. Back in the mod, I remember my buddy used to camp for hours on populated servers by this gas station. He'd take out the engine block, then start taking out the passengers. They'd scramble to figure out what was wrong, but ultimately, he'd snipe them all, then retrieve the loot. Needless to say, it didn't take long until we had piles upon piles, as vehicles are already fairly endgame, the passengers were usually well equiped, plus the vehicles often had LMGs and such. Good times.

 

 

So no, these anti material rifles aren't just used for killing bambis and griefing. They're used to take on vehicles and their endgame passengers. If you want to go play survivor/loner in the woods, you need not worry. This was just for killing 3-6 man militarized squads.

3 anti-materiel calibers? I'd say limit it to one at best, and that's assuming they even want AMRs. I could stand behind having the PTRD-41 in addition to a super rare 12.7x99mm caliber for M107s/M95s/AS50s, but my best guess would be they either add 14.5mm or 12.7x99mm and stick with one, because I think penetrating any heavy armor (assuming there is some) should be left to incredibly rare propelled warheads, or IEDs/explosives.

[pilgrim* 3513]

//

I would love an anti tank rifle.

//

 

//

Lets just get dat AS50 back

 

//

With a depleted uranium tipped anti tank round.... .

 

I actually think an RPG-7 fits the game best for this purpose.

//

 

Once vehicles are introduced  I see no problem with balancing things out with more powerful infantry weapons such as Anti Tank or Anti Material rifles

 

BOYS ANTI TANK RIFLE

WEIGHT 35lbs (unloaded)

Length 62 inches(standard)  or 56 inches (Paratroop model)

//

 

I'd like to see all manner of anti-tank rifles.

//

 

//

I could stand behind having the PTRD-41 in addition to a super rare 12.7x99mm caliber for M107s/M95s/AS50s, but my best guess would be they either add 14.5mm or 12.7x99mm and stick with one, because I think penetrating any heavy armor (assuming there is some) should be left to incredibly rare propelled warheads, or IEDs/explosives.

 

 

Anti Tank Rifles and RPGs

Penetrating Heavy Armor

 

 

 

Here are some average survivors - they are fishing, or maybe shooting at some food, like hunting a deer maybe, or blowing down the door of a foodstore ?

 

They have the kind of equipment you need to stay alive and survive in a post apocalypse world ..they have warm clothes, shelter, food, hunting and fishing gear, they work as a team to help each other.

 

BUT

 

They better be careful on this food-gathering expedition, because there are other survivors also looking for fish, game, medical supplies and cans of beans, who might even try to rob them and steal their stuff..

 

If you READ any SURVIVAL MANUAL it ALWAYS tells you ... right there on page 1 in the list of basic stuff you need to survive:

 

Warm clothes, foraging skills, good knife, fishooks, Anti Tank Rifle, cord, matches, axe or machete.. some kind of hunting and defense firearm, strong backpack, footwear, etc

 

But the MOST IMPORTANT THING if you want to SURVIVE, is an ANTI TANK RIFLE, or at least a one-shot fire and throw away ANTI TANK MISSILE

for penetrating HEAVY ARMOR

 

So don't ever forget

Right off the beach - DON'T look for Food

Don't look for Clothes

Don't look for an axe

Don't waste your time seeking medical supplies

 

Run like shit till you drop and starve or until you find an Anti Tank Rifle .. because that's what you NEED to survive. OK ?

 

Have you ever heard of aircrash victims, or castaways, or lost campers, or any person left on their own resources

Who has survived longer than One Day without an Anti Material Rifle or Shoulder Launched Anti-Tank Missile ???

 

OF COURSE YOU HAVEN'T !!

 

Even the hardcore Preppies know an Effing Anti Material Rifle is thing FIRST thing you need, screw the food, the maps, the tents, the medical stuff

Just ASK them.

And DayZ is a realistic SURVIVAL Game, isn't it. You need full military kit, high powered weapons, and maybe artilery, airstrikes, bunkers, helicopters, armoured vehicles and surface to surface shit

How you going to ever sit round a campfire at night roasting your FISH if you aint got those NECESSARY THINGS ?

 

WTF

Edited September 11, 2014 by pilgrim

[Evil Minion 943]

I am not exactly sure what you are talking about. Having an ultra-rare anti-materiel rifle (or even a main ballte tank) as additional choice for long time survivors has nothing to do with DayZ being a survival game. Thats "endgame content" - you don't need it to play the game and you should not even get to see it 99% of the time. Most players whould be busy surviving in the first place using weapons like a Splitting Axe or if they are lucky a hunting rifle. A casual player who logs into DayZ from time to time might never encounter this kind of gear.

 

I think you just confused "we don't need this as a basic gameplay element" and "we should not have this as an exceptionally rare option". Military equipment should be rare, specialized/heavy military equipment should be extremely rare - most survivors should not see both most of the time. But that doesn't mean it shouldn't exist. The game is more exciting if you - after surviving for days without ever encountering military gear - know its out there somewhere. Maybe in the form of hidden treasure and maybe in the form of a mighty dragon that may eat you - or save your ass from some bad guys.

Edited September 11, 2014 by Evil Minion

[agouti 105]

Anti Tank Rifles and RPGs

Penetrating Heavy Armor

 

bla.bla.bla.

Survival is an arm's race. Don't ever forget it. You have to run as fast as you can, just to stay in place! -The red queen.

[stielhandgranate 480]

I would hope they go where you shoot them. I'd be disappointed if I couldn't be accurate like this. Without the Bradley of course.

 

That "Rybec from Canada" guy knows his shit. I would rather see the RPG-7 in game rather than anti material weapons. They are common in areas such as East Europe, require practice to use effectively, expose the operator and have more applications than an anti material rifle.

[pilgrim* 3513]

Survival is an arm's race. Don't ever forget it. You have to run as fast as you can, just to stay in place! -The red queen.

 

bla.bla.bla

 

read a survival manual, dude

or ask an IRL preppie

or ask anyone who has played DayZ

 

"survival is an arms race"  ?? - did you really say that ??

 

Bwahahaha...

[agouti 105]

bla.bla.bla

 

read a survival manual, dude

or ask an IRL preppie

or ask anyone who has played DayZ

 

"survival is an arms race"  ?? - did you really say that ??

 

Bwahahaha...

 

 

I played the mod extensively. You need .50 cal rifles because other players have .50 cal rifles, and vehicles. You must not have played many endgame scenarios. It was helicopter and apc warfare.

 

Also, I raise you this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Queen_hypothesis

 

 

Yes, survival, in the broader biological sense, is in fact an arms race.

[stielhandgranate 480]

I played the mod extensively. You need .50 cal rifles because other players have .50 cal rifles, and vehicles. You must not have played many endgame scenarios. It was helicopter and apc warfare.

 

Also, I raise you this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Queen_hypothesis

 

 

Yes, survival, in the broader biological sense, is in fact an arms race.

 

End game in the mod was a AS50 player camping an area away from the threat of zombies or discovery shooting 800 meters+ at others with no threat of retaliation.

[pilgrim* 3513]

I played the mod extensively.

 

Yes, survival, in the broader biological sense, is in fact an arms race.

 

I doubt you played the mod as extensively as me, dude, but who gives a squirt about that ? It's HOW you played that counts, aint it. Lots of idiots played the mod too.

You're one of the AS50 fans I notice.... nice, nice.. have a good time did ya ?

And you played "endgame scenarios" extensively enough to notice the AS50 was taken out of the game, I hope?

 

You say : "survival, in the broader biological sense, is in fact an arms race"

 

Well that was the theory that came into vogue on the back of  Charles Darwin's work (1809–1882) misunderstood as "nature red in tooth and claw" and all that crap ?

But that yellow journalism popularization went out of style early in the last century, except among some rare jingoist headbangers. I hope no one's been trying to teach you that stuff mixe'd up with anthropology or sociology at school ?

 

Check it OUT, dude

Survival is NOW accepted to be a matter of INTELLIGENCE

And I do assume you're talking about Human Beings here ?

 

.. unless you're actually some kind of rodent, or a dodo, in DayZ, or a rare earthworm, or ... whatever ... in which case you're screwed unless you have at least and AS50

(and it won't do you any good anyway)

 

xx pilgrim

Edited September 11, 2014 by pilgrim

[Evil Minion 943]

End game in the mod was a AS50 player camping an area away from the threat of zombies or discovery shooting 800 meters+ at others with no threat of retaliation.

This should only be "endgame" for that lucky 1 out of 1000+ players and only if he/she decides to do this instead of doing something less boring.

 

The game itself should be ~50% "early game" (trying to survive with that few scraps you got), ~40% "midgame" (improving your survival chances by getting better gear) and only 10% "endgame" (the phase after you got "fully geared" where base building,vehicles, ultra rare gear, cooperative goals etc. become the main focus). Meaning half of the players shouldn't even care about looting for better gear in the first place (having to find supplies and fighting the environment) and 80% of the rest would feel lucky to find high tier civilian or basic grade military loot, let alone sufficient ammunition.

[Romo134134 1]

End game in the mod was a AS50 player camping an area away from the threat of zombies or discovery shooting 800 meters+ at others with no threat of retaliation.

 

This is exactly how I feel. I've played the mod quite a bit on a few different servers (Epoch, Overwatch, Overpoch, and the default game.) All of these with the same problem, campers with days worth of ammo for a weapon that shouldn't be used for how they're using it. It's called an 'Anti Material Rifle' for a reason, not to be used for an OP, long ranged, one shot kill weapon. Bandits basically rule the world of DayZ (Mod and SA) and giving them any weapon with this type of power or close to it is only going to make the issue worse. I play as a survivalist (Neither hero nor bandit) because I don't like risking my life to spend 5 minutes of, "Hey I'm friendly" then walking separate ways or being shot trying. 80% of the times I'm killed in DayZ is by bandits camping high loot areas (e.g. Airfields) or common spawn cities like Berezino or Svet, both of which have perfect camping locations for snipers. Most of the people that play DayZ are PVP and always will be, which is the sad truth of how a real world apocalypse would end up being, people killing other people for their own good and not one thinking about other people. Even the clan I play with is about 99% bandits (with me being the 1%)

The ONLY exception I'd like with an anti-tank/material rifle would be something heavy, old, and without some crazy scope with the range of a billion magnifying glasses. BUT! Have we not even considered the amount of hacking going on in EVERY ArmA based game there ever has been? How many times have we ArmA II players been killed by some mass mortar? Or maybe every player in the server just dropped dead, looking at the killfeed and seeing 'Player was killed' filling up the side of your screen. And one of the biggest problems is how it's harder to tell in the SA with the limited UI, there's no blood counter that tells you -800,000, or so, blood when shot by a hacker. They'd just spawn the gun in with unlimited ammo and their little scripts that point out every player in the game (I've seen how they work). I'm gonna come straight out and say "I'M AMERICAN AND I LIKE GUNS" I'm a gun nut, a gun fanatic, I love just about every aspect of any firearm known to man, as long as it looks and sounds cool, right? Not really, a .50 BMG or anything larger than a 12.7mm will make your head pop like a watermelon with a stick of dynamite in it. There are soooo many pros and cons to adding rifles like this into the game, but I stand by my opinion in saying that I don't think they should be in the game. Making them rare will only make hacking more common because of the desire for the weapon. Thanks for reading if you did and sorry for the lengthy post.

Edited December 2, 2014 by Romo134134

[pilgrim* 3513]

^ THIS

Romeo134134

makes a lot of sense

 

First - people are talking about "endgame" as if they know what they are saying: There is NO endgame in DayZ. There is not SUPPOSED to be an Endgame. Forget "endgame" it's not going to happen. It's not there, it won't ever be. If anyone thinks having an AS50 is "endgame" .. they are very  not-smart people. Give me an example of "endgame that does not involve respawn ? Endgame in DayZ is you get killed and you start again. Can anyone even suggest why that is not the case? Thanks.

 

Second - people are talking about "rare" as if they know what they are saying. There is NO rare in DayZ at present. If anyone thinks they know what "rare" or "very rare" or "really, really rare" etc means IN FACT, or what it WILL MEAN with the central loot system.. then go right ahead and explain. You mean you will see ONE if you play for a year ? Do you mean there will be one a week on each server ? Do you mean every server will always have ONE SOMEWHERE if you can find it, and maybe a player has it already? Do you mean you'll have one or two in your tent after you've played 3 weeks. Or what ? Give me some numbers. So before you rabbit about "rare" please TRY to indicate WTF you are talking about. Thanks.

 

Sorry DUDES.. but the "endgame " and "rare, high_end" lobby of players look to me like people who can do:

 

          A -> B

and they can do:

          C -> D

 

but they just can't think long enough and clearly enough to do  A -> B -> C -> D

 

kind of sad, but it takes all kinds. I guess the devs know about this from way back.. devs can add up numbers, follow logical arguments, construct game dynamics, discuss and attempt to predict consequences, test .. they can do that complicated stuff, ya know ? Try to keep up.

Edited September 11, 2014 by pilgrim

[agouti 105]

^ THIS

Romeo134134

makes a lot of sense

 

First - people are talking about "endgame" as if they know what they are saying: There is NO endgame in DayZ. There is not SUPPOSED to be an Endgame. Forget "endgame" it's not going to happen. It's not there, it won't ever be. If anyone thinks having an AS50 is "endgame" .. they are very  not-smart people. Give me an example of "endgame that does not involve respawn ? Endgame in DayZ is you get killed and you start again. Can anyone even suggest why that is not the case? Thanks.

 

Second - people are talking about "rare" as if they know what they are saying. There is NO rare in DayZ at present. If anyone thinks they know what "rare" or "very rare" or "really, really rare" etc means IN FACT, or what it WILL MEAN with the central loot system.. then go right ahead and explain. You mean you will see ONE if you play for a year ? Do you mean there will be one a week on each server ? Do you mean every server will always have ONE SOMEWHERE if you can find it, and maybe a player has it already? Do you mean you'll have one or two in your tent after you've played 3 weeks. Or what ? Give me some numbers. So before you rabbit about "rare" please TRY to indicate WTF you are talking about. Thanks.

 

Sorry DUDES.. but the "endgame " and "rare, high_end" lobby of players look to me like people who can do:

 

          A -> B

and they can do:

          C -> D

 

but they just can't think long enough and clearly enough to do  A -> B -> C -> D

 

kind of sad, but it takes all kinds. I guess the devs know about this from way back.. devs can add up numbers, follow logical arguments, construct game dynamics, discuss and attempt to predict consequences, test .. they can do that complicated stuff, ya know ? Try to keep up.

 

Endgame is a word commonly used to denote the sorts of things a player does after acquiring high end gear. This is fixing vehicles and building bases. It's beyond mere survival -it's an attempt at reconstructing a society of sorts, and the inevitable skirmishes that result. You're merely trying to survive, we're making power plays.

 

Furthermore, I stopped playing the mod when it required more than one 7.62 Nato round to the chest to take somebody out. At that point it was just battlefield with zombies and loot.

 

And no, evolutionary arms race is not considered outdated by any means.

[a_ruttle 199]

Modern anti material rifle no [People who start threads asking for them should be banned/shot/deported to siberia], an old WW2 AT rifle like the PTRD would be awesome.

[pilgrim* 3513]

Endgame is a word commonly used to denote the sorts of things a player does after acquiring high end gear ..//... fixing vehicles and building bases.

It's beyond mere survival -it's an attempt at reconstructing a society of sorts, and the inevitable skirmishes that result. You're merely trying to survive, we're making power plays.

 

And no,

 

Quote : << Endgame is a word commonly used to denote the sorts of things a player does after acquiring high end gear ..//... fixing vehicles and building bases >>

 

ah - there"s that "high-end" again ... that would be the AS50s I guess, or the RPG-7s ??  and you have to have those before you can "fix vehicles" or "get killed" or "make power plays" or snipe or fight or catch chickens ? 

I suppose you need those things, or you're not in the .. what do you call it.. "end_game".

I think I understand that the endgame is what YOU imagine it is... ok! .. with the "high_end" stuff like military clothes and bicycles and telescopic sights and pointed sticks and whatever fantasy gear you imagine should be added in the game for you to do your "end game", without having ever to respawn apparently,, and without noticing what's actually going on. Endgame is when you are geared to the teeth with a lot of techni-cool military scrap that is not in the game but you you want it in the game so you can collect it. Yes.. that's one way to play.

Can you do endgame with bows and arrows ?.. better make the devs take that stuff out, its not high-end hardware. And splints are pretty low-tech, you want medevac.

 

I think what you need is a private server dude.. otherwise how you EVER going to know if you're in the endgame or not, unless your friends tell you ?

 

 

Quote : << evolutionary arms race is not considered outdated by any means>>

 

Well this subject (even when it's garbled) is a little speciality of mine, and I've spent some time with it. So I'd like to have you state your sources for this amazing and depressing incoherence. Please make clear where you got this idea from, I'd like to check out what crap is circulating and where and why.

I hope you didn't just make it up yourself from something you thought you heard somewhere, sometime, when you weren't concentrating. ... Just point me to the source and the documents. We can soon sort out what you are trying to say. Thanks very much. I'm sure we're both equally willing to learn.

 

xx pilgrim

Edited September 11, 2014 by pilgrim

[Evil Minion 943]

Sorry DUDES.. but the "endgame " and "rare, high_end" lobby of players look to me like people who can do:

 

          A -> B

and they can do:

          C -> D

 

but they just can't think long enough and clearly enough to do  A -> B -> C -> D

Thats because you would need B -> C for this and only a narrow sighted hater would really just assume this to be true. Only because loot is abundant right now this doesn't mean it will stay this way. Only because there are few easily satified PvE elements it doesn't mean there won't be any more. Only because there is an "endgame" it does not mean that most players have to even get close to it.

 

All you do is rage, hate and deny with no other reason than "mimimi I don't want others to be rewarded for their efforts". The game is more interesting if you get rewards and if there are still things to accomplish. Reaching the top and staying there should not be the goal. Trying to reach the top without noone ever making it is far more interesting.

 

As for "rarity would make hackers more common" - you do not want to build a game around hackers. If its possible to exploit game mechanics or code you fix it and permanently remove the hacker. The "we do not include ultra-rare items because they would give hackers an advantage" mindest is bullshit. News flash: Hackers do not need ultra-rare items for this - they can use hacks. Thats like removing the Queen from Chess because "some kid could replace his pawns with queens".

Edited September 11, 2014 by Evil Minion

[Caboose187 (DayZ) 3036]

Nice, next we can add tanks for the anti-tank rifle to be used on, followed by fighter jets and attack helicopters and then eventually nukes.   I like it. :thumbsup:

[pilgrim* 3513]

..//..

Only because there is an "endgame" it does not mean that most players have to even get close to it.

 

All you do is rage, hate and deny with no other reason than "mimimi I don't want others to be rewarded for their efforts".

Reaching the top and staying there should not be the goal. Trying to reach the top without noone ever making it is far more interesting.

 

As for "rarity would make hackers more common" - you do not want to build a game around hackers.

 

Some interesting points, worth discussing

 

( Note; I didn't say a word about hackers, I don't know what hackers have to do with my argument. Did I use the word "hackers" somewhere ? )

 

Neither rage nor hate nor "mmimimi" is going on here (is that "mimimi" something you say often?  I don't understand the phrase) :  I'm asking what "endgame" is supposed to mean in a survival game.

Because In survival there is "continuing to survive" and "failing to survive" - which of those is endgame ?

 

If you mean that endgame means owning a big mean WEAPON ... then ok, go ahead find the "super-mega-rare" Surface to Surface Launcher, then you are at the "endgame" I guess ?

Don't ever fire it at anyone or you won't be in the "endgame" any more, you'll be one more average player again, either "continuing to survive" or "failing to survive". - back in the middle of nowhere again.

Maybe an anti-tank weapon will help you to survive better than an assault rifle and a helmet and a bag of rice and a water bottle ? There will be a higher quality to your survival ? You will survive longer ?

 

In the Mod, a number of players became Collectors.. they had tents full of military gear, sometimes several examples of each. So maybe collecting a lot of heavy military stuff and hiding it away is "endgame" ?

 

Or do you just stack up loot in your fort and then every time you die you respâwn and run back to the base where you have everything you need, so you dont have to play the other 90% of the game any more ever ?

 

And this brings us back to "rarity".. because exactly how long do YOU think you have to play in order to find ONE anti_tank weapon ? Or how long to find ONE wheel for your bicycle ? Because how long it takes a player to find it IS the definition of "rarity".. right ? You know another definition ?

 

I asked this SIMPLE question already, but no one CAN answer it.

So, off the cuff, TELL me how many hours YOU should play on average to find ONE of these weapons. And then tell me - if you play that many hours, how many of these weapons must spawn across all the servers for you to hit that statistical time-frame ?

Get your calculator up on-screen and work it out, so then you can TELL people what you are talking about, instead of using these meaningless words "rare" "very rare" ...

Just give me the numbers dude, then we can have a conversation.

 

Because I have done some calculations, and rarity goes like this - Either EVERYONE who plays 'seriously' can have one of those in 2 or 3 weeks, OR there is only ONE of them on 10 servers. There is no middle ground, and if you can show me wrong, lay out the numbers. And if there is only ONE on 10° servers, imagine exactly how pissed off all the haters of server hoppes are going to BE. They are going to be very very pissed off.

 

And the players on Private Servers are going to go hyper-postal when they realise they do not have ONE on their own damn server, and they can't log in to the next server without respawning. Lol. Watch them being reasonable about it. heh.

 

So two simple questions

 

By endgame what do you mean ?  Having some "very rare" bits of super military kit ? Or do you mean surviving for a long time? or do you mean having a big perma-stash so you don't care if you die, you got straight back to geared to the teeth without having to play through it ? Or do you mean forming a cooperative group with strangers long enough to grow crops? Or what ?

 

By ""very rare" what (the hell) do you mean ? You mean you hear about someone else who saw one once after playing for 6 months ? You have to play for sixteen hourts because there is only ONE spawned on your server on average once every 3 days? You have to hop 17 public hive servers to find a server that has one NOW ? Or they turn up at the same spawn point on your server every time one is destroyed ? Or what ?

 

+++

 

I dont see how asking these two simple questions is 'ruining anyone's game or is a sign of hatred, or is mimimim (?)'. I like shooting geared players myself, for no reason whatever, just the first who turns up in front of my position. I like doing a trawl through Berezino backstreets and seeing what comes up. I like making a fire and cooking meat. I like raiding supermarkets to see what's there, and I might squt behind the last shelf a while to see who shows up. I like the m4A with ACOG, I like exploring. I like the machete but I take the axe for preference. I have some problems and doubts with game mechanics. I'm not a fan of torture handcuffs burlap sacks. I would like an live grenade to go off if you dropped it  or when you were holding it you were handcuffed or shot or knocked unconscious.. I sit under a bush in the rain and read a book and scan with my LRS to see if some sucker is crossing an open field or checking a game hut.. I don't have any hate or rage about anything or any player. I like this game.

 

I don't know why players want to work so hard to turn this game back into ArmA, after all the work the devs are putting in to make it different. That's my view.

 

An anti material weapon does not give you any cross-scenario real advantage in an open world game, UNLESS you run with a minority clique who thinks you must have one to play. Then you have the advatage of waving the biggest meanest gun to impress the other kids.

It's called BFG sysndrome. Heard of it ?

 

Still no answers.

I dont expect to hear the A-B-C-D

 

xx

[Caboose187 (DayZ) 3036]

Some interesting points, worth discussing

 

( Note; I didn't say a word about hackers, I don't know what hackers have to do with my argument. Did I use the word "hackers" somewhere ? )

 

Neither rage nor hate nor "mmimimi" is going on here (is that "mimimi" something you say often?  I don't understand the phrase) :  I'm asking what "endgame" is supposed to mean in a survival game.

Because In survival there is "continuing to survive" and "failing to survive" - which of those is endgame ?

 

If you mean that endgame means owning a big mean WEAPON ... then ok, go ahead find the "super-mega-rare" Surface to Surface Launcher, then you are at the "endgame" I guess ?

Don't ever fire it at anyone or you won't be in the "endgame" any more, you'll be one more average player again, either "continuing to survive" or "failing to survive". - back in the middle of nowhere again.

Maybe an anti-tank weapon will help you to survive better than an assault rifle and a helmet and a bag of rice and a water bottle ? There will be a higher quality to your survival ? You will survive longer ?

 

In the Mod, a number of players became Collectors.. they had tents full of military gear, sometimes several examples of each. So maybe collecting a lot of heavy military stuff and hiding it away is "endgame" ?

 

Or do you just stack up loot in your fort and then every time you die you respâwn and run back to the base where you have everything you need, so you dont have to play the other 90% of the game any more ever ?

 

And this brings us back to "rarity".. because exactly how long do YOU think you have to play in order to find ONE anti_tank weapon ? Or how long to find ONE wheel for your bicycle ? Because how long it takes a player to find it IS the definition of "rarity".. right ? You know another definition ?

 

I asked this SIMPLE question already, but no one CAN answer it.

So, off the cuff, TELL me how many hours YOU should play on average to find ONE of these weapons. And then tell me - if you play that many hours, how many of these weapons must spawn across all the servers for you to hit that statistical time-frame ?

Get your calculator up on-screen and work it out, so then you can TELL people what you are talking about, instead of using these meaningless words "rare" "very rare" ...

Just give me the numbers dude, then we can have a conversation.

 

Because I have done some calculations, and rarity goes like this - Either EVERYONE who plays 'seriously' can have one of those in 2 or 3 weeks, OR there is only ONE of them on 10 servers. There is no middle ground, and if you can show me wrong, lay out the numbers. And if there is only ONE on 10° servers, imagine exactly how pissed off all the haters of server hoppes are going to BE. They are going to be very very pissed off.

 

And the players on Private Servers are going to go hyper-postal when they realise they do not have ONE on their own damn server, and they can't log in to the next server without respawning. Lol. Watch them being reasonable about it. heh.

 

So two simple questions

 

By endgame what do you mean ?  Having some "very rare" bits of super military kit ? Or do you mean surviving for a long time? or do you mean having a big perma-stash so you don't care if you die, you got straight back to geared to the teeth without having to play through it ? Or do you mean forming a cooperative group with strangers long enough to grow crops? Or what ?

 

By ""very rare" what (the hell) do you mean ? You mean you hear about someone else who saw one once after playing for 6 months ? You have to play for sixteen hourts because there is only ONE spawned on your server on average once every 3 days? You have to hop 17 public hive servers to find a server that has one NOW ? Or they turn up at the same spawn point on your server every time one is destroyed ? Or what ?

 

+++

 

I dont see how asking these two simple questions is 'ruining anyone's game or is a sign of hatred, or is mimimim (?)'. I like shooting geared players myself, for no reason whatever, just the first who turns up in front of my position. I like doing a trawl through Berezino backstreets and seeing what comes up. I like making a fire and cooking meat. I like raiding supermarkets to see what's there, and I might squt behind the last shelf a while to see who shows up. I like the m4A with ACOG, I like exploring. I like the machete but I take the axe for preference. I have some problems and doubts with game mechanics. I'm not a fan of torture handcuffs burlap sacks. I would like an live grenade to go off if you dropped it  or when you were holding it you were handcuffed or shot or knocked unconscious.. I sit under a bush in the rain and read a book and scan with my LRS to see if some sucker is crossing an open field or checking a game hut.. I don't have any hate or rage about anything or any player. I like this game.

 

I don't know why players want to work so hard to turn this game back into ArmA, after all the work the devs are putting in to make it different. That's my view.

 

An anti material weapon does not give you any cross-scenario real advantage in an open world game, UNLESS you run with a minority clique who thinks you must have one to play. Then you have the advatage of waving the biggest meanest gun to impress the other kids.

It's called BFG sysndrome. Heard of it ?

 

Still no answers.

I dont expect to hear the A-B-C-D

 

xx

Well you see the problem is that people are so used to being coddled with the game telling them what to do that the minute they have no direction they tend to tell you how to play even tho there is no right or wrong way to play.  Now people are going around saying that in order to play the game you need XXX gear with XXX weapon otherwise you are doing it wrong.  One group is telling people this is a PvP only game, another group is saying it's a PvE only game, me, this is whatever you want to make of it.  Hell, we have a goddamn sticky thread dedicated to KoS'ing because for some strange reason it should be against the games rules to kill whatever you feel like killing.  And then we have this thread of people wanting an "anti-tank rifle"?  For what purpose??  DayZ doesn't need every damn gun known to man in it to make it what it is.  I guess it could be cool but then how the hell do you balance something that is obviously not been designed to work on a human or even a fricking car??

[pilgrim* 3513]

Nice, next we can add tanks for the anti-tank rifle to be used on, followed by fighter jets and attack helicopters and then eventually nukes.   I like it. :thumbsup:

 

 

                                                                                                         

 

Right !

Sooo Right !

And I think it would be neat if the radio had an extra channel for "endgame" players to call in orbital strikes

But only if you had new batteries in it

and as long as you were strictly a serious "endgame" player, and not a beginner, nube, or casual .. of course...

 

it would even things up for the players without infantry tank-destroyer missiles and long range anti-material weapons, don't you think ?

Edited September 11, 2014 by pilgrim

[Evil Minion 943]

I don't know why players want to work so hard to turn this game back into ArmA, after all the work the devs are putting in to make it different. That's my view.

Thats your problem - you think people want to turn this game back into ArmA. And you go berserk every time you expect someone to work in this direction. But thats not the case here - adding a very rare anti-materiel rifle doesn't suddenly turn this game into ArmA - it just gives people something to look for, treasures to find or monsters to fear.

Giving you some values is pretty stupid as none of us has sufficient data. Rare enough to keep the game very different from ArmA for starters. One in ten servers might be a good measure - but as a probabilistic value. Which means smaller shards always get a chance to have them as well. Luck for them - until the weapon gets lost or destroyed. If you are unlucky your shard will not have a single one on it but you will never know for sure. Unless all people who found them make it public and also name the shard they are playing on - which is pretty stupid because there will be hunters coming after you. Now while there is a maximum number on the hive that doesn't mean all weapons will be active all the time. They might spawn just like other weapons - at certain places with a certain probability. However they won't spawn if the maximum number is reached.

Server hopping should simply be nerfed to a point where it does not net you an advantage here (see other topic). The real issue is simply hiding away the weapon - but even here this won't last forever. Every stash can be found, every base invaded and every locked chest can be opened. And players having them in their inventory - give items of those rarity a timer. When the weapon is offline it counts down, when its online it counts up (to a maximum). If the timer reaches 0 the weapon is removed from its owner and may spawn elsewhere. Before someone cries "oh the poor casuals are getting punished" - no, having and keeping this weapon is a reward you have to earn. If you can't do it it's simply not the right weapon for you - though you might hide it in some stash and with a little luck its still there if you come back.

You also go berserk of you read the phrase "endgame" - because... well I don't know exactly but it seems you project some mysterious "right way of playing" on it. Thats exactly what should not happen. "Endgame" for me is when you start putting your resources into other things than pure survival. This might include getting rare gear you actually don't need - simply because its rare, specialized or cool. Building up and maintaining a base/vehicle etc. Setting up law enforcement in a town, sitting around sniping freshspawns, engaging in squad combat or manhunts for the thrill. Things you do when survival alone is not challenging anymore - whatever you want, its a sandbox.

Now as a survival game this "endgame" should not be reached by everyone and it should not be permanent. Even "serious" clan/hardcore/veteran players should struggle getting there and fail more often than not - because its a survival game. If you find one of those rifles with one shot - better use it, you won't stay in this state very long. Now that doesn't immediately drop you out of "endgame" its just an element other players more concerned with surviving (at least 90% of all DayZ players at any given time) would not be able to use because its way to specialized, impractical and maybe even detrimental for their own survival.

[pilgrim* 3513]

Thats your problem - you think people want to turn this game back into ArmA. And you go berserk every time you expect someone to work in this direction.

..//..

. Rare enough to keep the game very different from ArmA for starters. One in ten servers might be a good measure - but as a probabilistic value.  ..//..

Server hopping should simply be nerfed to a point where it does not net you an advantage

..//..

You also go berserk of you read the phrase "endgame" -

 

 it seems you project some mysterious "right way of playing" on it. ...

."Endgame" for me is when you start putting your resources into other things than pure survival. This might include getting rare gear you actually don't need ... setting up law enforcement in a town .... sitting around sniping freshspawns .... engaging in squad combat or manhunts for the thrill  - whatever you want, its a sandbox.

Now as a survival game this "endgame" should not be reached by everyone and it should not be permanent. Even "serious" clan/hardcore/veteran players should struggle getting there

..//..

 

I say I have an an 'opinion' and you say its my 'problem' - no dude, it's my opinion. Thinking is not the same as having a problem where I come from.

 

You say "rare" then you say "giving values is pretty stupid as none of us has sufficient data". You don't have sufficient data to say what "rare" means.

 

You say "rare" might mean 1 in 10 servers, and then say 'server hopping should be nerfed'.  Work on that. Sort out where your ideas are going, they are interesting but they just don't fit together yet.

 

You say I project some "right way of playing" on other players - I guess you did read my post ? You forgot what I said. Try reading it again.

 

You say "endgame" is doing "whatever you want" (anything you do when you're not starving) - doing all the stuff that any player does, when they like, at any time in the game right off the beach.

For instance, you quote "sniping freshspawns" as one example of "endgame" activity. So I guess "endgame" can also be running around with no pants and an axe if you want.. But is that really "endgame" ?  I understand that is just "the game". So "endgame" can be anything, anywhere, anytime ? DayZ is endgame right from the start, is that what you mean?

 

I notice "endgame" in this thread was being used to indicate something more "impressive", even perhaps something only for "serious"  'elite players'. You say so yourself.

 

I am not an elite player, sorry. I'm just an average dude. So I've no clue if "endgame" means one thing, means a hundred things to 100 different players, or means nothing.

I've only done 690 hours in this SA game. It's just for relaxation as far as I'm concerned, I play in my personal free time, ya know, and I don't have a lot.

Is 700 hours enough game-time to have an opinion ?

 

* * *

 

I've said - Can someone define "rare" or "extremely rare" ? Quantify ?

I've said - What do you mean by "endgame" in DayZ, is there a definition of it or a need for it ? Explain?

 

When I ask these two simple questions to the players who use those words often.. they tell me I'm "berserk" and a "hater".

Your own reply to each of those two questions was exactly ... "beserk"... You said it twice.

 

Maybe you-all should leave out these <big words> if you don't have solid <meanings> for them at all, and just go back to asking for Infantry Anti-Tank Missiles.

Everyone knows what those are. Even you.

 

xx pilgrim

 

[ps - read your http://forums.dayzgame.com/index.php?/topic/210680-suggestions-for-endgame-githubworkinprogress/#entry2109729 ]

- you're listing 'goals and aims' on that thread,  AND saying there should not be a special endgame condition  -  so now take advice - don't get

all " mimimimi " and abusive just because you can't quite make sense. Cut out the kiddy crap like " narrow-sighted hater "  and " berserk " and

" rage, hate and deny ". Get some sleep and try again tomorrow, you're near the right track. Are you contributing, or are you just making noise ?

Edited September 12, 2014 by pilgrim

[Evil Minion 943]

Are you contributing, or are you just making noise ?

Thats what I should have asked you. :P But no more of this - it desn't help to throw "you just want to turn this into ArmA" or "you are just afraid of high level rewards" at each others faces.

 

Back to business:

 

1. Loot rarity

I opened a topic where I tried this - not saying its perfect and its still pretty loose because only the end results are described there. The issue here is that the game has many dynamic events that influence rarity. If an item is not capped it might spawn again and again no matter how small the chance,decreasing its rarity over time. But items might also get lost (destruction, despawning, server/character existence failure) which in turn dynamically increases rarity. So in fact most of those items are subject to inflation and loss. The end goal is "snapshot rarity" within some kind of steady state - so at any given time ~X% of all players would only have items below a certain tier.

 

2. "Endgame"

Now the word is actually misleading. In an open world sandbox game without a real end (but death) things can't and shouldn't be limited to players who survived Y hours and accumulated at total value of Z advantages (items, allies etc.). Now even in this kind of game there are certain phases more dictated by the dynamcis. At first you struggle for basic gear and survival with no means to actually fight greater threats (early game), then as you slowly aquire bette gear, maybe cooperate with others you are able to face threats though your greatest focus is still on getting the means necessary for survival (mid game). However, at some point you got enough tools that basic survival is secondary - getting food is now a "side quest" so to speak. Thats "endgame" - not because its the end goal or close to the end of your gameplay (in fact given the genre its actually way beyond the usual end) but because there is no more shift in your personal gamplay dynamics.

 

Look at the current state for one specific type of player: "Early game" is getting food, water, some better clothes, a backpack and some basic weapons/tools. "Midgame" is about getting geared - here you fight because you want better items and someone is standing between you and your goal. "Endgame" is PvP - you fight for fun getting supplies while doing so but they are not the main focus - that would be the hunting and killing.

 

"Early game" - you are an antelope, tyring to survive against all odds.

"Midgame" - you are a lion who wants to make a living - you mainly fight to live another day.

"Endgame" - you are a big-game hunter who has everything he needs and kills for sports.

Edited September 12, 2014 by Evil Minion