What "End Game Gear" Should Theoretically Be Like At Release

[BeefBacon 1185]

 

Played it quite recently so to be honest I can't tell you if the controllers were nerfed or not.

 

The game was hard but I did manage to beat it. Misery did get a huge update after I beat it though so you might want to check it out.

 

Was infuriating. You know in the first area with the chopper crash among the electricity pylons? There was a controller and a poltergeist there. I crest a hill, like, half a kilometer away and they see me. I die 2 seconds later unless I break line of sight. That sort of spoiled it for me. I liked that it was difficult but after a while of getting nowhere it got sort of frustrating. Think I will have a look at that update, though. I like a challenge, but I also like to make progress however small.

[Chaingunfighter 917]

1. Having export AK101 (5.56) is simply not the same as having most common AK74/M in (5.45). 

They should not have the exact same damage nor recoil or penetration. Not if gunplay should has to have any depth. And yes, "realitards" hate having only export version in 5.56 as it does not make much sense. Also see point 2.

 

2. How can you make AK101 to have more common ammo than other 5.56 NATO rifles? Also damage is based mostly on caliber right? Again, bye bye differentiation.

 

As for the rest, what would make most sense would be to have Warsaw pact 7.62x54R and 5.45x39  vs NATO  7.62x51  and 5.56x45.

So not 1 caliber, not 2, but 4 would be ideal to properly picture both reality and proper ammo rarity (NATO calibers more rare anyone?) as well as their ballistic properties.

Providing guns in their more rare calibers, instead of the most common and widespread one, seems as wrong decision to me. That's just how I see it.

 

 

 

Nope, 7.62x39 is just ONE of the commonly used calibers in WP weapons. 

And again no, separating WP and NATO weapons does have effect on the game and it is called ammunition rarity. Plus different calibers should have different attributes.

Logicaly, it should be easier to find ammo for WP weapon, since the game is in the country that has prevalent WP armament.

But I guess you might not care about anything like setting anyway, so lets mash every weapon there is into the game and to make it more fun, let's not chamber them in their most common calibers. That has to provide the best possible gameplay ever.

 

Will not comment on your feminism analogy, since that is totaly out of place.

 

Btw if Devs introduced 9×18mm, it would not mean only Makarov but some 10 other pistols (Cz 82, Fort 12 etc) of eastern origin.

Plus that round could mean Skorpion vz 65, PM 63 RAK, PP-19 Bizon and several other eastern SMG's. Although Skorpion should probably be in 7.65×17mm Browning SR (.32 ACP) so having it's 9x18mm version would be compromise as well.

But if you wanted to separate warsaw pact and NATO weapons, you only need one ammunition type, you don't need every single gun from both sides to make that true. 5.45x39mm is quite similar ballistically to 5.56x45mm (different enough, but similar, and it was designed as the Soviet response to .223 caliber). Logically, in a real scenario, warsaw pact ammunition would be more common, but you don't need 5.45x39mm to do that, you can just have all warsaw pact assault rifles be in 7.62x39mm. All 5.45x39mm would do is diversify it, which I'm in support of (I'm only against people's reasoning for adding it, I too want it implemented).

 

And yes, I absolutely care about setting, but thanks for the straw man there. Would I be happy if every gun in the game was XM8s, M27s, MK48s, and all super modern western weapons? No, that'd be a poor design decision, especially based on the game's setting. However, that doesn't inherently mean that none of them are allowed to be added, and that having a large variety is a bad thing. If they mashed every weapon there was into the game, then they would have to do the correct calibers, because none of the weapons ingame use incorrect calibers.

 

They're (somewhat) less common variants re-chambered into calibers that allow for overall more weapons, that still exist in the real world. The Makarov IJ-70 in .380 ACP is a real gun, and isn't some anomaly either (and wouldn't matter if it was, it's still the correct caliber), same with the PM-73 RAK.

 

And funny enough, the Fort-12 and CZ-82 actually exist in .380 ACP, a caliber already ingame. The Vz.83 Skorpion is chambered in .380 ACP, The PP-19-02 Bizon is chambered in .380 ACP, there's a PM-73 RAK already ingame, and most other Eastern SMGs & pistols have .380 export variants. That's not to mention guns like the Beretta 84, MAC-11, Walther PPK, Sig Sauer P230, multiple Glocks, and plenty of other guns, that do exist in .380 ACP, but do not have 9x18mm variants. And I highly doubt they'll do every SMG & pistol under the sun, so even with those I've stated they've probably got enough. I mean, do we really need 10 semi-automatic handguns in 9x18mm? Is that really a justified reason for adding it?

 

Case in point, I don't see the problem with adding a Makarov in .380 ACP, considering it exists and allows for you to have the Makarov, without really changing anything. My immersion is not broken by the fact that we have a 9x17mm bullet instead of a 9x18mm bullet in the same gun, for which both variants exist.

 

Oh, and that analogy isn't out of place, because it's, well, an analogy. Same main idea.

[Katana67 2907]

1. Having export AK101 (5.56) is simply not the same as having most common AK74/M in (5.45). 

They should not have the exact same damage nor recoil or penetration. Not if gunplay should has to have any depth. And yes, "realitards" hate having only export version in 5.56 as it does not make much sense. Also see point 2.

 

2. How can you make AK101 to have more common ammo than other 5.56 NATO rifles? Also damage is based mostly on caliber right? Again, bye bye differentiation.

 

As for the rest, what would make most sense would be to have Warsaw pact 7.62x54R and 5.45x39  vs NATO  7.62x51  and 5.56x45.

So not 1 caliber, not 2, but 4 would be ideal to properly picture both reality and proper ammo rarity (NATO calibers more rare anyone?) as well as their ballistic properties.

Providing guns in their more rare calibers, instead of the most common and widespread one, seems as wrong decision to me. That's just how I see it.

 

But, it really is. They're the same aesthetically (hence why I've posted side-by-side comparisons, often purposefully mislabeled, and nobody's been the wiser). Which is 90% of a weapon in DayZ. The damage/performance values are arbitrary, they can be whatever the developers make them. It's not as if 5.56x45 is rendered realistically from a ballistic point of view in DayZ anyhow, or 7.62x51, or any rounds at all.

 

Saying that they'd perform differently is basing one's understanding of the two rounds on reality, when they aren't (and have never been) rendered with anything approaching absolute realism in DayZ/ARMA in the first place. There is no concept of in-depth terminal ballistics in DayZ, which is where the difference between 5.45x39 and 5.56x45 lays primarily (but not entirely). A "terminal ballistics" mechanic would have to be added before I'd even consider 5.45x39 as warranted from a "differentiation of performance" perspective.

 

I mean, the biggest difference between 5.56x45 and 5.45x39 (neither of which were actually in ARMA II, as they were combined with magazines into one entity) in ARMA II was that one did slightly more damage than the other (3300 for 5.56x45 when fired out of an M4A1, and 2722 for 5.45x39 when fired out of an AK-74). So, it's not as if there's anything special about 5.45x39 in particular, because the values assigned to it in-game are arbitrary.

 

And, I'd agree that they (the AK-101 and AK-74M) could be made different from one another... but the AKM (7.62x39) and AK-101 (5.56x45) are just as equally different from one another anyhow. Thus, the same idea is expressed.

 

I don't necessarily think the AK-101 should have more common ammunition than NATO rifles, that is the place of the AKM (7.62x39). My point is that we've already got two rounds with which to balance loot rarity for assault rifles, obviously there will be overlap/exceptions (see the CZ 527). However, 5.45x39 is not needed to balance ammunition rarity.

 

Is it welcome? Sure! Would it add a bit of depth to the ammo rarity? You bet. Do I want it added? Again, yes. Should the developers add it? Sure, why not! Is it necessary for them to add it? No.

 

7.62x39 should be the common-uncommon round supplying the common-uncommon Warsaw Pact/Eastern weapons (i.e. AKM, RPK, <insert SBR AK here>, CZ 527, etc.)

 

5.56x45 should be the uncommon-rare round supplying NATO assault rifles (i.e. M4A1, Steyr AUG, G36, etc.)

 

Boom, tiered differentiation. We've already got a 7.62x39 AK right? So what difference does it make in having the other AK chambered in 5.56x45, if it's rarer than the AKM? Other than "likelihood" I might add.

 

Outside of those two, 5.45x39 doesn't really serve any distinct purpose. Unless it's divvied up into 5.45x39 [common], 7.62x39 [uncommon], 5.56x45 [rare]. Which I would absolutely prefer. But it's not necessary to add 5.45x39 as one has (and can, with the CZ 527) appropriate 7.62x39 for common weapons.

 

Like I said, there's going to be some overlap. I don't particularly think the AK-101, or any assault rifle for that matter, warrants being super rare (as it's matched in every way by the AKM currently), so there's a bit of a conflict there. Much in the same way that there's somewhat of a conflict in having the CZ 527 firing an assault rifle round (thereby forcing them to spawn assault rifle ammunition in residential areas).

Edited August 31, 2014 by Katana67

[hombrecz 832]

But if you wanted to separate warsaw pact and NATO weapons, you only need one ammunition type, you don't need every single gun from both sides to make that true. 5.45x39mm is quite similar ballistically to 5.56x45mm (different enough, but similar, and it was designed as the Soviet response to .223 caliber). Logically, in a real scenario, warsaw pact ammunition would be more common, but you don't need 5.45x39mm to do that, you can just have all warsaw pact assault rifles be in 7.62x39mm. All 5.45x39mm would do is diversify it, which I'm in support of (I'm only against people's reasoning for adding it, I too want it implemented).

 

 

That's really weird position you and Katana67 are in. You basically support adding 5.45x39 yet you argue with anybody that is voicing it's wish for that to be added. Why don't you provide your own arguments to support the cause, rather than argue to hell with folks wanting the same thing as you?  Proper calibers are good for many things as was already said. Ammo diversification, nod to realism, different damage or ballistics.  I do not know, I simply do not see any proper reasons not to have guns in their most common calibers. All that devs said, if I remember well, was they do not want to confuse mystical creature called "casual" gamer. 

Why, on Earth, they would try to aim DayZ for casuals is beyond me as well.

 

 

7.62x39 should be the common-uncommon round supplying the common-uncommon Warsaw Pact/Eastern weapons (i.e. AKM, RPK, <insert SBR AK here>, CZ 527, etc.)

 

5.56x45 should be the uncommon-rare round supplying NATO assault rifles (i.e. M4A1, Steyr AUG, G36, etc.)

 

Boom, tiered differentiation. We've already got a 7.62x39 AK right? So what difference does it make in having the other AK chambered in 5.56x45, if it's rarer than the AKM? Other than "likelihood" I might add.

 

Outside of those two, 5.45x39 doesn't really serve any distinct purpose. Unless it's divvied up into 5.45x39 [common], 7.62x39 [uncommon], 5.56x45 [rare]. Which I would absolutely prefer. But it's not necessary to add 5.45x39 as one has (and can, with the CZ 527) appropriate 7.62x39 for common weapons.

 

Personaly I am against AK's having the same caliber as M4's. And yes, I know about export versions of AK's.

If DayZ was situated in USA, I would be totally ok with having Arsenal's version of AK in whatever caliber they prefer. But it's not, Chernarus is not USA right? Again, I know it is fictional country that could be home of unicorns, if devs wished. Still I would be disagreeing with that as much as I could, no matter if it was lost cause or not. 

As I replied to Chaingunfighter, I do not see any real benefits of providing weapons in calibers that represent minority of production.

And I really do not care about "casual" player being unable to read weapon & ammo box description.

Hell, Rocket himself said, that he does not want introduce skills to the game, but instead that players should have knowledge affecting their gameplay.

Would not knowing what caliber is used by what weapon, be one such case? I almost can not count myself as knowing Dayz guns anymore, since they often are not chambered in what I expect them to be.

 

When we are talking about assault rifles, why are we omitting 7.62x51? Would not Scar-H be considered as assault rifle?

Why not do the following instead of what you proposed?

 

5.45x39 less rare round for WP/Eastern assault rifles (also Vepr and few others). Less damage when compared to 7.62x39, but less of bullet drop and less rare. Many eastern armies rearmed to this smaller caliber based on USA adopting 5.56x45 in Vietnam. Funnily enough Kalashnikov himself was strongly against this. Who knows, if things went a bit differently, maybe the Russians could have chosen something like 6.5 or 6.8 instead of smaller 5.45.

 

7.62x39 a bit more rare round WP/Eastern assault rifles (also CZ527 and others). More dmg compared to 5.45 but bigger bullet drop and recoil.

Both above eastern calibers would be noticeably more common then NATO calibers.

 

I think that game would also benefit from introducing of 7.62x54R. That would act as round for both common Mosin and more rare SVD.

Here you would probably argue that common ammo for uncommong rifle is not a good thing. Well if they are introducing global economy, I do not think it would be a big of an issue.

 

5.56x45 should be the uncommon-rare round supplying NATO assault rifles (i.e. M4A1, Steyr AUG, G36, etc.)

7.62x51 should be more rare round for more rare assault rifles like Scar-H and ofc sniper rifles as well.

 

All above would also mean no need to do Mosin in 7.62x51 or having only export version of AK74.

NATO calibers would also be neatly disconnected from Eastern ammo table giving devs chance to make Eastern calibers more common then their western counterparts.  They could also add caliber properties, like 5.45 maybe causing more bleeding, 5.56 maybe having better penetration. You know characteristics differentiating every caliber more than it is now. It could be easily authentic, nothing crazy like exploding bullets or such.

 

So yeah, that's kinda what I think and what sometimes just makes it's way into the forum post.

[Caboose187 (DayZ) 3036]

Nice thread derailment.  Go make your own thread to gripe about weapon calibers, oh wait, there was one and it got shut down.... a long time ago.

 

For the record, there is no, none, zilch, zero end game gear.  Why?  Because there is no end game.  

Edited August 31, 2014 by Caboose187

[Katana67 2907]

Nice thread derailment.  Go make your own thread to gripe about weapon calibers, oh wait, there was one and it got shut down.... a long time ago.

 

For the record, there is no, none, zilch, zero end game gear.  Why?  Because there is no end game.  

 

Rage more.

[Caboose187 (DayZ) 3036]

Rage more.

Who's raging?  The people whining and bitching about calibers.  But keep going on in multiple threads about weapon calibers, I'm sure someone really gives a shit and will listen to you.

[Chaingunfighter 917]

Who's raging?  The people whining and bitching about calibers.  But keep going on in multiple threads about weapon calibers, I'm sure someone really gives a shit and will listen to you.

No one cares, you're right - even the devs hardly ever come to the forums, and they have most of their game planned out already, so suggesting new things is more the community seeing what the community would think rather than actually putting the devs up to something. But when people are acting stupid, I have a right to call them out on it.

 

And yes, calibers do relate to the endgame.

Edited August 31, 2014 by Chaingunfighter

[Chaingunfighter 917]

That's really weird position you and Katana67 are in. You basically support adding 5.45x39 yet you argue with anybody that is voicing it's wish for that to be added. Why don't you provide your own arguments to support the cause, rather than argue to hell with folks wanting the same thing as you?  Proper calibers are good for many things as was already said. Ammo diversification, nod to realism, different damage or ballistics.  I do not know, I simply do not see any proper reasons not to have guns in their most common calibers. All that devs said, if I remember well, was they do not want to confuse mystical creature called "casual" gamer. 

Why, on Earth, they would try to aim DayZ for casuals is beyond me as well.

 

Well, then you have a reasonable approach to calibers, and this argument wasn't necessary. It's just it annoys me that people argue using poor examples or reasons. If we share the common goal, we should be working together, but we need to be reasonable about it. Joining forces and herding even more people to say that it needs to be in simply for "realism alone", isn't going to get anything done. If we're on the same side, we should all be using rational arguments.

 

Say you're a commander in some military. How would you feel if a group of friendly forces on your side were always attacking the objective without planning it out and thus failing repeatedly? It's going to make you all look like a joke and your chances of success are going to be getting decreasingly lower. However, if you were able to coordinate with all of the groups, and plan out the mission, you could very well succeed. That's how I feel about it, and I'm not calling anyone stupid, I just don't think people believe things for the right reasons.

 

The calibers were not done slightly out of true form to cater to the casuals, they were done for a variety of reasons. I mean, yes, the fact that 9x18mm and 9x19mm look similar when you read them quickly was definitely a part of it, but it wasn't the whole reason.

 

.380 ACP would've of course solved that issue, but .380 ACP also allows for a far greater overall variety of pistols and SMGs, including quite a few 9x18mm re-chambers.

 

 

----

Let's look at some different Warsaw Pact/Eastern Bloc and Russian SMGs

 

(Bold indicates SMG only exists in this caliber)

 

9x19mm SMGs:

• PP-90M1
• PP-2000
• Vityaz-SN
• KGP-9
• Bizon-2-01
• Blyskwaica SMG
• PM-70 RAK
• SA Vz.23
• Vz.68 Skorpion
• Suomi KP/31
• ZB-47
• PP-92 (PP-93 in 9x19)

 

.380 ACP SMGs:

• Bizon-2-02
• PM-73 RAK
• Vz.83 Skorpion
• PP-91 Kedr (.380 Variant)

9x18mm SMGs:

• Bizon-2
• PM-63 RAK
• OTs-02 Kiparis
• PP-91 Kedr
• PP-90
• PP-93
• Vz.63 Skorpion

There are only two true SMGs that 9x18mm has to offer on it's own, and most of them are similar to ones already ingame;

- The PP-93 is similar to the PM-73 that's already ingame. Both are compact SMGs with foldable stocks meant for indoor operations.

- The OTs-02 isn't really unique in any way, as there are plenty of other SMGs like it.

 

Now you may say; "Well, clearly there are more 9x18mm Eastern guns there than .380 ACP guns, so why not just use those and have 9x19mm for the rest?"

Because you can't have the MAC-11, Walther PPK, Mauser HSc, Beretta M1934, FN Model 1910, and a bunch of other guns in 9x18mm.

 

So, you avoid confusion, still get most of the same firearms with nearly identical performance, and have an overall better variety of stuff opened. I fail to see how it's "catering to casuals", seems like it's catering to good design choice to me.

Edited August 31, 2014 by Chaingunfighter

[pilgrim* 3514]

A cave boarded up with bushes, branches and rocks, bearskin rug, elk, chicken and fish stocks, potato still for cave made vodka, warm clothes, ushunka, wellies, fishing gear, animal traps, crossbow and bow.

 

Yes !

 

A   Machete  .. I was going to say an axe... but it's a difficult choice.. IRL I'd have to go for the machete plus something to sharpen it up sharp! sharp! NOT a Gringo machete !

AND, for all-round wear - the famous windbreaker, multi-use garment, sleeping-bag, hold-all, waterproof t-shirt, and brutally hard-to-see night camouflage ghillie device . . .

 

the UNIVERSAL Black Plastic Bin-Liner

 

I don't know HOW this has been missed from the game so far .. where I come from we all wear them (we're not very into military gear up here in the hill towns).  Just snip the two bottom corners off and cut a V-neck opening, takes 30 seconds, and you're fully-survival-clothed. At night you can stuff grass up it to bulk it out and stay warmer, but you don't need to. You can wear it anywhere, social occasions, clan wars, the Red Cross, swimming, and just simply for hanging out under the trees and eating your fishing worms, listening to the far-off military end-gamers shooting each other, and hearing the rain drip through the leaves.

 

Share your life with a goat or a friend

 

"A machete, a can of worms

And thou, beside me with a bin-liner

And wilderness were paradise enough .."

[Omar Khayyam]

 

Can someone explain endgame to me I still haven't sussed it yet at all, is that when you die ?

Edited August 31, 2014 by pilgrim

[hombrecz 832]

 

Say you're a commander in some military. How would you feel if a group of friendly forces on your side were always attacking the objective without planning it out and thus failing repeatedly? It's going to make you all look like a joke and your chances of success are going to be getting decreasingly lower. However, if you were able to coordinate with all of the groups, and plan out the mission, you could very well succeed. That's how I feel about it, and I'm not calling anyone stupid, I just don't think people believe things for the right reasons.

 

Now you may say; "Well, clearly there are more 9x18mm Eastern guns there than .380 ACP guns, so why not just use those and have 9x19mm for the rest?"

Because you can't have the MAC-11, Walther PPK, Mauser HSc, Beretta M1934, FN Model 1910, and a bunch of other guns in 9x18mm.

 

So, you avoid confusion, still get most of the same firearms with nearly identical performance, and have an overall better variety of stuff opened. I fail to see how it's "catering to casuals", seems like it's catering to good design choice to me.

 

Well, to be honest, I haven't seen any attempts to consolidate "movement" for correcting caliber situation.

To use your analogy, all I've seen so far was bands fighting themselves inside their own military base. 

 

Personaly I would see as a better solution to just have eastern calibers and western ones, for each cathegory be it pistols, smg's or assault rifles. I am not saying to include every single one, but why not the prevalent one, that most weapons use?

So 9x18mm for Eastern smg's and .380APC or 9x19mm for the Western ones.

Is really adding of few more calibers threatening the game somehow?

 

 

And again, the whole design choice with caliber streamlining was to avoid confusion...of casual player, who probably never even played the mod! I fail to see how having 4-5 more calibers would hurt the game or create mass confusion...unless players were illiterates dimwits that is. Ammo has description, weapons have description.....HOW is that confusing?

 

Also btw Mosin in 7.62x51 is anything but smart choice the way I see it.

 

EDIT: I guess I could also agree that I should spend less time on forums agruing over stuff. It's just that those imperfections or flaws irks me. I wish that DayZ reaches it's full potential without compromising much or even catering to "casual" players by avoiding "confusion" of adding realistic calibers ingame. It is not just about calibers though, there are more things like stamina system and other, that I hope will be done correctly to provide harsh survival experience.

 

But yeah, I guess we will just have to agree to disagree in the end.

Edited September 1, 2014 by Hombre

[gibonez 3633]

There is still plenty of time for the caliber situation to change tbh.

 

If the rumors from Pax are true the upcoming M1 garand will be a big test and will give us some indication as to what to expect in the future.

 

We will see if .30-06 makes it into the game or if the m1 garand follows the trend and is just given 7.62x51 under the bullshit excuse that it is re chambered or that its the Danish version of the m1 garand or any other countless silly reasons.

 

For now though we just wait and see.

Edited September 1, 2014 by gibonez

[w1lg5r 70]

a semi auto isn't end game gear. End game gear is the best you can get. AKA an AR/sniper/MG

At release, it should be a weapons stockpile, vehicles and bases.

Edited September 1, 2014 by lootable

[gibonez 3633]

a semi auto isn't end game gear. End game gear is the best you can get. AKA an AR/sniper/MG

At release, it should be a weapons stockpile, vehicles and bases.

 

What if the ak , m4 and ak 101 are the very best you can get when the game is finished ?

 

Would that not qualify as end game gear then ?

 

What if resources were very limited in SA when the game was finished and was not like Epoch , breaking point and overpoch where the map is full of high end military firearms from all over the globe for some reason ?

 

Can you now see how a simple assault rifle that you struggle to even find ammo for is now considered end game gear.

[Katana67 2907]

What if the ak , m4 and ak 101 are the very best you can get when the game is finished ?

 

Would that not qualify as end game gear then ?

 

What if resources were very limited in SA when the game was finished and was not like Epoch , breaking point and overpoch where the map is full of high end military firearms from all over the globe for some reason ?

 

So, here's the thing... you're setting the bar insanely low. Lower than that of the vanilla mod, much less the over-the-top mods you use in your hyperbolic example.

 

DMRs, LMGs, GPMGs, dedicated sniper rifles, a variety of assault rifles, were all features of the vanilla mod. Which is fine by me.

 

It's about where one draws the line, I don't draw the line at something as humble as an assault rifle (an inherently middle-of-the-road weapon, by definition). Neither do the developers, hence why the SVD is inbound... and why they've spoken positively about the PKM, FAL, and AUG... and why the current assault rifles have had their capabilities (in terms of modularity) significantly upgraded...

 

You draw the line there, which is fine. But don't use Overwatch/Epoch as examples, when the very mod to which DayZ owes its existence had a variety of military weapons in excess of assault rifles.

Edited September 1, 2014 by Katana67

[smoq2 221]

So, here's the thing... you're setting the bar insanely low. Lower than that of the vanilla mod, much less the over-the-top mods you use in your hyperbolic example.

 

DMRs, LMGs, GPMGs, dedicated sniper rifles, a variety of assault rifles, were all features of the vanilla mod. Which is fine by me.

 

It's about where one draws the line, I don't draw the line at something as humble as an assault rifle (an inherently middle-of-the-road weapon, by definition). You draw the line there, which is fine. But don't use Overwatch/Epoch as examples, when the very mod to which DayZ owes its existence had a variety of military weapons in excess of assault rifles.

 

That's because the mod incorporated Arma assets (I assume it did; didn't play it), at which point the only sound decision was to use those. As far as SA goes, I see they are trying to move a bit further from the "mil" aspect of the mod, but not too far - hence we have all those low grade, "civilian-ish" rifles.

 

I also feel pretty safe to bet that the AK101, M4 and SVD will indeed be the "end-game" gear, and I'm judging that by the civ/mil weapon ratio we already have. I've heard Rocket's comments on some stream that his ideal vision is people fighting with sticks and stones, but that was around March, so it can be quite outdated.

 

Personally, I don't mind the game going in either direction. I'll be happy to roam around with a mosin + PU as much as with an M107. After all, it's not the gear that will determine your survivability in DayZ once the game reaches 1.0.

[Katana67 2907]

That's because the mod incorporated Arma assets (I assume it did; didn't play it), at which point the only sound decision was to use those. As far as SA goes, I see they are trying to move a bit further from the "mil" aspect of the mod, but not too far - hence we have all those low grade, "civilian-ish" rifles.

 

I also feel pretty safe to bet that the AK101, M4 and SVD will indeed be the "end-game" gear, and I'm judging that by the civ/mil weapon ratio we already have. I've heard Rocket's comments on some stream that his ideal vision is people fighting with sticks and stones, but that was around March, so it can be quite outdated.

 

Personally, I don't mind the game going in either direction. I'll be happy to roam around with a mosin + PU as much as with an M107. After all, it's not the gear that will determine your survivability in DayZ once the game reaches 1.0.

 

I mean, they consciously chose to implement/remove the weapons that were in DayZ mod. They didn't just fall out of the sky because they were re-used assets. Each weapon was a conscious addition, and leaving it in was also a conscious action (hence why things like the L85 TWS and AS50 were removed, as they were seen to upset gameplay).

 

They've tried to place a greater emphasis on "civilian" weapons in the standalone, which I'm all for. But that doesn't mean it has to come at the cost of "military" weapons. Especially when these things can just be made rarer, not disqualified from inclusion entirely.

 

And given what I've heard from the developers (both publicly and privately) I don't have any reason to think that assault rifles will be the cut off as to what constitutes "high-end." For one, I've heard them speak favorably about things like the PKM and FAL (therefore GPMGs and battle rifles) and they've spoken about removing the LRS from the Mosin once a dedicated sniper rifle is added. Secondly, their original lineup of weapons was to be divided into three categories "civilian," "LE/military," then "black market" or somesuch. As to whether that'll actually still be the case, we've yet to see.

 

That, and the current weapon lineup isn't as focused toward "civilian" weapons as one might think. Largely because the divide between civilian/military weapons isn't as black and white as some would assert (I'd assert that it's not even grey, it's just bullshit, but I digress).

 

Five of the eight handguns could possibly be classified as military/tactical.

 

Both SMGs are pretty "military" by anyone's definition.

 

Roughly half of the rifles (the AK-101, AKM, M4A1, and possibly SKS) are considered to be "military" rifles.

 

Plus we've got grenades... and a ton of military gear already (see Tactical shirts, MICH helmets, Gorka-E, etc.)

 

If anything, it's closer to a 50/50 divide. Vice a 70/30 divide in the mod.

Edited September 1, 2014 by Katana67

[Rags! 1966]

That's right...you run around in your military coat and pants, assault vest, ballistic helmet, gas mask, combat boots and gloves, and keep an assault rifle and a fireaxe on your back and see how long you sprint around with your server hopping gear buddies in the Chernarus sun without getting hyperthermia. 

 

Show us how 2 endgame while you're passed out on the ground from overheating.

 

Bring on the .49 update.

 

It's time to separate the DayZ players from the Call of Duty ones. 

Edited September 1, 2014 by Rags

[General Zod 1118]

That's right...you run around in your military coat and pants, assault vest, ballistic helmet, gas mask, combat boots and gloves, and keep an assault rifle and a fireaxe on your back and see how long you sprint around with your server hopping gear buddies in the Chernarus sun without getting hyperthermia. 

 

Show us how 2 endgame while you're passed out on the ground from overheating.

 

Bring on the .49 update.

 

It's time to separate the DayZ players from the Call of Duty ones. 

Bring it on, I will sit on top of some building dressed lightly when sunny, put on something extra when colder, and I will patently, precisely and invisibly keep on sniping those who come near. Only those who have gear that is, shooting newbies is a waste of time, ammo and honour. 

[w1lg5r 70]

That's right...you run around in your military coat and pants, assault vest, ballistic helmet, gas mask, combat boots and gloves, and keep an assault rifle and a fireaxe on your back and see how long you sprint around with your server hopping gear buddies in the Chernarus sun without getting hyperthermia. 

 

Show us how 2 endgame while you're passed out on the ground from overheating.

 

Bring on the .49 update.

 

It's time to separate the DayZ players from the Call of Duty ones. 

We aren't talking about clothes, stop grouping people who like military weapons with cod kids. Wearing full military gear is camouflaging so i'm sorry if that makes me a cod kid instead of wearing civilian dress.

 

What we are saying is that endgame shouldn't be a semi auto nor is it now.

Edited September 1, 2014 by lootable

[Rags! 1966]

We aren't talking about clothes, stop grouping people who like military weapons with cod kids. Wearing full military gear is camouflaging so i'm sorry if that makes me a cod kid instead of wearing civilian dress.

 

What we are saying is that endgame shouldn't be a semi auto nor is it now.

 

We aren't talking about clothes? That's odd...since the OP mentions them and they are important facets of what people consider to be an "end game character's" gear. Don't tell me what a Topic is about when the OP mentions something that I'm talking about. Capisce? Lovely. 

 

Wearing full military gear makes complete sense...when you're in the military with a military's worth of equipment to support you. Not in a post apocalyptic world where the next clean bottle of water should be as much of a concern as the amount of bullets in your weapon. 

 

Don't tell me we aren't talking about clothing in a thread about end game gear when the gear that you wear on your back is directly determinant in your physical condition, which is determinant on your ability to not die or become incapacitated to the elements. Your gun only affects your survival when you fire it or when somebody sees you holding it. Clothing on your back is a survival element that is always at play, every second of every minute of every hour that you play, regardless of what other players are doing and regardless of what they think about you. 

 

You say that you're not a "cod kid" but all you seem to be focused on is "mah military grade assault rahfles" and not "What should I be wearing?", which is...oddly not a concern in Call of Duty games I have noticed. Just an observation. 

[Chaingunfighter 917]

Well, to be honest, I haven't seen any attempts to consolidate "movement" for correcting caliber situation.

To use your analogy, all I've seen so far was bands fighting themselves inside their own military base. 

 

Personaly I would see as a better solution to just have eastern calibers and western ones, for each cathegory be it pistols, smg's or assault rifles. I am not saying to include every single one, but why not the prevalent one, that most weapons use?

So 9x18mm for Eastern smg's and .380APC or 9x19mm for the Western ones.

Is really adding of few more calibers threatening the game somehow?

 

 

And again, the whole design choice with caliber streamlining was to avoid confusion...of casual player, who probably never even played the mod! I fail to see how having 4-5 more calibers would hurt the game or create mass confusion...unless players were illiterates dimwits that is. Ammo has description, weapons have description.....HOW is that confusing?

 

Also btw Mosin in 7.62x51 is anything but smart choice the way I see it.

 

EDIT: I guess I could also agree that I should spend less time on forums agruing over stuff. It's just that those imperfections or flaws irks me. I wish that DayZ reaches it's full potential without compromising much or even catering to "casual" players by avoiding "confusion" of adding realistic calibers ingame. It is not just about calibers though, there are more things like stamina system and other, that I hope will be done correctly to provide harsh survival experience.

 

But yeah, I guess we will just have to agree to disagree in the end.

When I say "movement", I mean that people argue and suggest to the devs by using these forums. Assuming what we're saying is actually read (and it probably is), everything that gets said is taken into account. And some people simply do not know how to accurately argue for something from a pragmatic point of view.

 

The only reason why I believe that 5.45x39mm is necessary for separation reasons is because actual eastern-block assault rifles are fairly different from western ones. Western ones tend to be more modular and accessible but Eastern ones are obviously more reliable (in most cases, this varies across the board). It's also got fairly different ballistics than 5.56x45mm and 7.62x39mm, and is used in enough firearms to justify it being added. The fact that it's realistic is an added bonus - I want it.

 

Personally I never cared for having either 9x18mm or .380 ACP, as we already had two dedicated handgun calibers (9x19mm and .45 ACP), and a revolver caliber (.357 Magnum). It may have been useful for a low-caliber round, but .22LR could've done that as well. I wouldn't have been bothered if they added 9x18mm, but I can see why .380 ACP was a better idea as a whole, simply because it allows for a larger variety of weapons in the long run. (Keep in mind that any future maps may not be set in Chernarus, or even Eastern Europe, and this has actually been brought up, by the devs, as to why quite a few of the items exist.)

I don't necessarily agree with leaving calibers out because they have similar names, but the devs seem to want to, so I'm not going to argue with them, because it's just not a big deal. DayZ can be a difficult whether it has 10 ammo types or 100 ammo types, all having 100 would do is make it more complex.

So no, I don't want 9x18mm to be added at this point, because it's ballistics are almost identical to 9x17mm/.380 ACP, and it's just going to over-complicate the system of ammunition. I want realism & difficulty, but to the point that we need every caliber under the sun, just to have the most realistic variants of guns possible, I don't see the point.

 

The mod wasn't really that complicated ammunition wise either, because magazines simply said "8Rnd Makarov Mag", so you could tell that it was for the Makarov. However, it was a pretty bad system for a survival-based game, so that's why it was changed. Not necessarily because it was "too hardcore for the casuals".

 

Just because the devs don't make every single design choice the most difficult one gameplay-wise, doesn't mean they're catering to any group. It's part of development among all other factors.

 

 

The Mosin doesn't use 7.62x51mm ammo, not even the game lies about that anymore. Now it's just called 7.62mm, and the model is of 7.62x54mmR, so technically it was the Blaze and LongHorn using the wrong caliber if anything. I didn't bring that up because it's planned that .308 and 7.62x54mmR will be separate later on.

[w1lg5r 70]

We aren't talking about clothes? That's odd...since the OP mentions them and they are important facets of what people consider to be an "end game character's" gear. Don't tell me what a Topic is about when the OP mentions something that I'm talking about. Capisce? Lovely. 

 

Wearing full military gear makes complete sense...when you're in the military with a military's worth of equipment to support you. Not in a post apocalyptic world where the next clean bottle of water should be as much of a concern as the amount of bullets in your weapon. 

 

Don't tell me we aren't talking about clothing in a thread about end game gear when the gear that you wear on your back is directly determinant in your physical condition, which is determinant on your ability to not die or become incapacitated to the elements. Your gun only affects your survival when you fire it or when somebody sees you holding it. Clothing on your back is a survival element that is always at play, every second of every minute of every hour that you play, regardless of what other players are doing and regardless of what they think about you. 

 

You say that you're not a "cod kid" but all you seem to be focused on is "mah military grade assault rahfles" and not "What should I be wearing?", which is...oddly not a concern in Call of Duty games I have noticed. Just an observation. 

Because clothes change nothing yet and guns are a large part of survival but oh no having an assault rifle makes me a cod kid.

[Rags! 1966]

Because clothes change nothing yet and guns are a large part of survival but oh no having an assault rifle makes me a cod kid.

 

> Because clothes change nothing yet

 

Edited September 1, 2014 by Rags

[Caboose187 (DayZ) 3036]

So the only way to play this game is to run as fast to the nearest military base and get army gear?  Wow, the elitists are strong in this thread