Crossbows being ignored?

[scriptfactory 620]

Watch those, and you'll understand just why bullet wounds are so much more complicated to treat, and thus more lethal.  The entire "arrows and bolt wounds are harder to treat than bullet wounds" thing is a myth created by peoples lack of understanding that bullets dump energy and don't just punch small holes like Swiss cheese.

 

I actually understand that rifles are way more dangerous than crossbows and bows. But in order for crossbows to see any kind of use some kind of utility should be given to them. As of right now they are useless. I think gameplay would only get better if more utility was given to some of the lesser weapons like these.

[taco86 156]

Yes, firearms are more powerful and lethal than bows or crossbows. However, bolt and arrow wounds are more complicated to treat than bullet wounds. A bullet hole can be plugged and wrapped. Hard to do the same with 3 inches of bolt/arrow buried into your shoulder,

 

This is entirely untrue...  "more complicated to treat", please...  A typical arrow head causes trauma by severing tissues...  A bullet on the other hand causes trauma by rapid kinetic energy dump thus stressing surrounding tissues to g levels that they can in no way survive...  An arrow leaves a predicatable wound pattern far more in line with a stab wound which is FAR FAR more easy to treat than a cavity filled with liquified flesh coated with thousands of lead bullet fragments.  Furthermore, the raw surface area and volume of the internal wound is far larger for that of the bullet than an arrow.

 

Here is what a 55gr m16 bullet can do at 3,850+ fps (m16a2 fires them at 3250 fps)...  All 1800+ ft/lbs of energy dumped within 10 inches...

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GPLfRrn2WHI

Edited August 29, 2014 by taco86

[kylesaysthings 44]

I actually understand that rifles are way more dangerous than crossbows and bows. But in order for crossbows to see any kind of use some kind of utility should be given to them. As of right now they are useless. I think gameplay would only get better if more utility was given to some of the lesser weapons like these.

I agree that if you're going to have the crossbow in the game, it should have some functional purpose.  However, I don't think that giving it gimmick features, or trying to make it on-par with firearms is the way to go.  The viability of the crossbow should be in it's availability, use of craftable ammunition(maybe, or at least making the bolts far more common), and obviously the fact that it doesn't produce an easily audible noise.  So that all being said, I believe balancing this weapon should be done more through loot-spawns, rather than trying to make it perform comparably to weapons that(hopefully) will be substantially hard to find, and collect ammo for.

Edited August 29, 2014 by KyleSaysThings

[DerrocK (DayZ) 39]

I just love how the devs were/are focused on stuff that no1 is ever going to use, for example: bows/crossbow, shitty melee weapons etc

[foxdie_01 121]

 

perhaps some way of negating the clothing benefits we see in game specific for the bow and crossbow?

 

Although i also like only being able to medicate with pliers and bandage. 

[mrmutant 13]

 

 

perhaps some way of negating the clothing benefits we see in game specific for the bow and crossbow?

 

Although i also like only being able to medicate with pliers and bandage. 

 

I bet it wouldn't go through ceramic armor that the majority of militaries insert in their flaks  :D

 

Crossbow should be a serious wound inflicter, and have a high risk of infection and require pliers to remove the bolt head but I still feel like the majority of bullet wounds would be far more serious in this department as well. Id love to see the bolt from the hunting crossbow actually sticking to the dude though.

 

Maybe poison could be added to the bolt tips? Wouldn't kill anything right away but you better have antibiotics on you.

Edited August 29, 2014 by MrMutant

[taco86 156]

An arrow or bolt will stop dead on any hard armor, even hard kevlar.  Many cut "proof" armor is also capable of completely defeating the majority of arrows or bolts.  It however can slice right through the vast majority of non stab resistant soft ballistic armor.  If the press vest that is currently in the game is soft lvl3a with no plates then I'd like to see it provide no damage reduction or additional protection against arrows/bolts.

Edited August 29, 2014 by taco86

[green_machine 179]

Maybe poison could be added to the bolt tips? Wouldn't kill anything right away but you better have antibiotics on you.

 

I wish they'd implement some kind of damage over time until one bandages (and presumably removes the bolt/arrow)

 

I was going to mention both of these. Extract blood from a zed with hypodermic needle or use a bolt you've previously shot a zombie with (i presume you'll be able to retrieve some). 

 

Like.. Bleeding won't stop unless you remove the arrow. Removal of the arrow makes you lose some blood, if you have pliers and have been shot in a limb, less blood loss from removal. Having a bolt in you, prevents you from sprinting. 

 

Also, crossbow bolts seem even rarer than the crossbow itself which puts me off using it, shame if they were common, more people might use it which encourages testing, bug finding  

 

I think the crossbow has a good chance of surviving criticism once a few more features compliment it.  

Edited August 29, 2014 by DaveZ

[q.S Sachiel 470]

Its a stealth weapon u nimwits!

 

U are using it wrong....think "im a ninja...therfore I need to use a crossbow"

Yup and the improvised bow is like super rambo style ninja weapon.

So well-honed that you've got to anticipate the arrow flying off to your left to zero effect within 5 meters.

[Rags! 1966]

Balance is not an Alpha concern. 

 

The crossbow's day shall come.

[rybec 339]

I've mentioned before that weapons should perform how they should. Just because a crossbow or recurve isn't nearly as effective as a rifle we really don't want to add strange benefits to make it on par. Balancing weapons for the sake of "balance" is better for competitive games.

The only real acceptable way of doing so is making them more available than they are now. I can wander for all of ten to thirty minutes before finding a rifle or handgun of some sort. Why use a bow when I have a firearm available for use?

[Whyherro123 2283]

I've mentioned before that weapons should perform how they should. Just because a crossbow or recurve isn't nearly as effective as a rifle we really don't want to add strange benefits to make it on par. Balancing weapons for the sake of "balance" is better for competitive games.

The only real acceptable way of doing so is making them more available than they are now. I can wander for all of ten to thirty minutes before finding a rifle or handgun of some sort. Why use a bow when I have a firearm available for use?

 

This is why I am hoping ammunition spawns will eventually be cut back. (WAY WAY back. I just took a leisurely stroll through Novo and found 40 Mosin rounds, 30 shotgun shells, 80 magnum rounds, and assorted .45 and .380 rounds. Come on now.).

 

So, you can have a firearm, but only a few rounds for it. At that point, the crossbow or the self-bow start to look pretty good, especially if they make arrow crafting more viable.

[krebsy 11]

How about soiling the bolts or arrows so that you need antibiotics to avoid long term sickness if hit by one?

Good old English archer tactic in the middle ages. Stick them in the ground so you can quickly re-notch and also so you introduce dirt into the wound, causing additional bleeding and festering....

K.

[friendlypilot 37]

i dont pick up the crossbow or arrows because someone on this forum kills on sight crossbowmen so i avoid it lol

[TwinSpire 49]

This is why I am hoping ammunition spawns will eventually be cut back. (WAY WAY back. I just took a leisurely stroll through Novo and found 40 Mosin rounds, 30 shotgun shells, 80 magnum rounds, and assorted .45 and .380 rounds. Come on now.).

 

So, you can have a firearm, but only a few rounds for it. At that point, the crossbow or the self-bow start to look pretty good, especially if they make arrow crafting more viable.

 

 

Another thought would be to allow it stored in the melee side of the shoulder.  So when (hopefully) the time comes when ammo is super rare, you can at least have a gun with 1-5 bullets but have your main crossbow/bow weapon available... 

[Dagwood 680]

We can't forget about those explosive bolts either... Imagine deconstructing a frag or a box of shotgun shells and turning your crossbow into an anti-vehicular weapon with some McGivering. Awesomeness

[Whyherro123 2283]

We can't forget about those explosive bolts either... Imagine deconstructing a frag or a box of shotgun shells and turning your crossbow into an anti-vehicular weapon with some McGivering. Awesomeness

1) How do you expect a bolt to detonate a timed-fuse fragmentation grenade?  Not even touching the fact that frag grenades are only really "effective" at damaging soft-skin vehicles. (And by "damaging", I really mean "shredding the occupants inside". Fragmentation shrapnel will do jack-all to stop the vehicle.

 

2) That.....is not how a shotgun shell works. The primer is on the rear of the shell, so to make this work, you would essentially have a shotgun shell stuck onto the front of a bolt. Zero aerodynamic properties, which means you won't be hitting anything. Also, the plastic casing will hit the target first and, most likely, crumple, directing the pressure and buckshot back away from the target. Also, buckshot has issues penetrating personal body armor. A shotgun will not be stopping any vehicles.

 

 

This is similar to what I mention in #2. He uses a 9mm stuck onto a crossbow bolt. Notice what happens when the bullet hits the cinderblock? The bolt gets shot backwards towards the point of release. If he wasn't in cover, he would probably have gotten the fletchings of the bolt in his eye.  Remember Newton's Third Law, kids: for every reaction, there is an equal and opposite reaction. In a firearm, the explosive force is countered by the firearm moving backwards, known as recoil. The firearm essentially absorbs the recoil (well, most of it), allowing the bullet to move forwards.

 

In an open system (like in the video above), there was no "restraining object" to hold in the force of the explosion; the bolt and casing flew backwards. There was nothing acting on the bullet,, so it didn't really get a lot of forward velocity, and it didn't even penetrate the block. Something that a .22LR can do with ease.

[AlphaDogMeat . 493]

1) How do you expect a bolt to detonate a timed-fuse fragmentation grenade?  Not even touching the fact that frag grenades are only really "effective" at damaging soft-skin vehicles. (And by "damaging", I really mean "shredding the occupants inside". Fragmentation shrapnel will do jack-all to stop the vehicle.

 

2) That.....is not how a shotgun shell works. The primer is on the rear of the shell, so to make this work, you would essentially have a shotgun shell stuck onto the front of a bolt. Zero aerodynamic properties, which means you won't be hitting anything. Also, the plastic casing will hit the target first and, most likely, crumple, directing the pressure and buckshot back away from the target. Also, buckshot has issues penetrating personal body armor. A shotgun will not be stopping any vehicles.

 

This is similar to what I mention in #2. He uses a 9mm stuck onto a crossbow bolt. Notice what happens when the bullet hits the cinderblock? The bolt gets shot backwards towards the point of release. If he wasn't in cover, he would probably have gotten the fletchings of the bolt in his eye.  Remember Newton's Third Law, kids: for every reaction, there is an equal and opposite reaction. In a firearm, the explosive force is countered by the firearm moving backwards, known as recoil. The firearm essentially absorbs the recoil (well, most of it), allowing the bullet to move forwards.

 

In an open system (like in the video above), there was no "restraining object" to hold in the force of the explosion; the bolt and casing flew backwards. There was nothing acting on the bullet,, so it didn't really get a lot of forward velocity, and it didn't even penetrate the block. Something that a .22LR can do with ease.

Has Hollywood taught you nothing?

[gibonez 3633]

.... @ people suggesting explosive bolts.

 

You do realize this isn't call of duty right in real life what good would an explosive bolt or arrow be if the range was limited to 10-20 feet ?

 

Not to mention how dangerous they would be not only to make but how useless they would be if they were to retain any flight stability.

 

 

As for the sporter and the crossbow being ignored they really arent the problem with both these weapons is that they are highly dependent on certain in game mechanics being fleshed out.

 

The arrows are dependent on an injury system and better health and damage mechanics.

 

The sporter is dependent on the loot system ensuring it is the most common weapon, its magazines and ammo being easily found not to mention the weapons damage being realistic unlike it is now.

 

 

Given enough time they should both be useable although the crossbow will always suck because lets face it what good would 12 century weapons be against 21st century firearms.

[Judopunch 523]

I think the bow and crossbow use new mechanics and are tied into the physics work. I dont think that they are done yet, but I would expect any changes to take a long time because of the nature of the arrows and bolts.

[Judopunch 523]

1) How do you expect a bolt to detonate a timed-fuse fragmentation grenade?  Not even touching the fact that frag grenades are only really "effective" at damaging soft-skin vehicles. (And by "damaging", I really mean "shredding the occupants inside". Fragmentation shrapnel will do jack-all to stop the vehicle.

 

2) That.....is not how a shotgun shell works. The primer is on the rear of the shell, so to make this work, you would essentially have a shotgun shell stuck onto the front of a bolt. Zero aerodynamic properties, which means you won't be hitting anything. Also, the plastic casing will hit the target first and, most likely, crumple, directing the pressure and buckshot back away from the target. Also, buckshot has issues penetrating personal body armor. A shotgun will not be stopping any vehicles.

 

 

This is similar to what I mention in #2. He uses a 9mm stuck onto a crossbow bolt. Notice what happens when the bullet hits the cinderblock? The bolt gets shot backwards towards the point of release. If he wasn't in cover, he would probably have gotten the fletchings of the bolt in his eye.  Remember Newton's Third Law, kids: for every reaction, there is an equal and opposite reaction. In a firearm, the explosive force is countered by the firearm moving backwards, known as recoil. The firearm essentially absorbs the recoil (well, most of it), allowing the bullet to move forwards.

 

In an open system (like in the video above), there was no "restraining object" to hold in the force of the explosion; the bolt and casing flew backwards. There was nothing acting on the bullet,, so it didn't really get a lot of forward velocity, and it didn't even penetrate the block. Something that a .22LR can do with ease.

You sir, win the day with your concise explanation.

I was face palming so hard when I watched the end of some atrocious shootem up move and he sticks his hand in a fire with shells between his fingers to 'shoot' the bad guy in the final scene.

 

True 'explosive' ammo needs to penetrate before it detonates, so the explosion is channeled through the body and does not just deflect as the above example.

[Rags! 1966]

If they would change the Crossbow to be able to fire actual Sporter rifles at the enemy, we may be getting somewhere.

[Dagwood 680]

Woah guys, haven't you seen Rambo? Explosive bolts are the real deal.

But on a serious note, even though it may not be realistic, wouldn't short range, difficult to craft, explosive bolt constructed of bolts and gunpowder add something interesting to the gameplay? They were implemented in the dayz aftermath mod and they didn't break anything. Just useful for blowing holes in walls.

[Whyherro123 2283]

Woah guys, haven't you seen Rambo? Explosive bolts are the real deal.

But on a serious note, even though it may not be realistic, wouldn't short range, difficult to craft, explosive bolt constructed of bolts and gunpowder add something interesting to the gameplay? They were implemented in the dayz aftermath mod and they didn't break anything. Just useful for blowing holes in walls.

 

How? How would they work? Anything strong enough to blow a hole in a wall would be too heavy and unaerodynamic to attach to a bolt.

[Sleeves 98]

Maybe give the crossbow rapid fire action, then I will use it.