How to stop server hopping.

[Jex 1104]

I got you the first time, dude

You keep telling us you don't give a shit - why do you bother ? Something worrying you ?

 

The point of this post is.....?

[pilgrim* 3514]

..//..

Ppl want loot and farm different servers by switching at interesting locations. Or they ghost and cheat in pvp that way. Now exactly what are fun gameplay methods to prevent ghosting or loot hopping?

 

What new expectations and possibilites are you going to have while...using in-game sanction X and what is X? Eight pages of ppl discussing this and no solution in sight.

 

OK I said this before but just to make it clear - let's forget the "problem" and look at the gameplay. Suppose there was a little change in the gameplay:

 

Suppose that I picked some buildings at NWA .. let's say ALL the buildings to keep it simple. Just the buildings. AND a new rule is you cant log out inside a building. That's the only change in the software. OK. So what would happen ?

 

I mean what would happen to the gameplay (forget wetbacks hoppers!). Let's think how gameplay would change.

 

OK - first no one would log in inside the airport tower etc.. because they can't log out there, so they cant log in there. So no one is going to be surprised after they have cleared a building when someone logs in behind them. And no one will be logging inside the walls either. And no snipers will be logging in on roofs - and as we know, that's a form of ghosting that the existing timer hasn't touched

.

If players want to log close to the buildings, because they want to change servers, or to be ready for action quicky, they have to go outside and find some sheltered place to hide. But that will be more risky for them, because they will not be in an enclosed space.. so logging in will have more risk (we know what NWAF is like, we've all been there) .. they can hide but not as completely as in a room. If you log in to a room you only have the risk that the one room is occupied - outside at NWAF you can never be confident of who is around anywhere, so you are likely to seek a 'good' place to log. You're not going to log outside the door of the ACT building, for sure..

This is why - at the moment - players DO log inside the airport buildings. They have assessed the risks and the effort, and decided this is the best bet. So my little change stops all that, they have to rethink. Everyone knows (from play experience) that moving across the airfield between buildings is a lot more risky than being inside a building.. and everyone is relieved when thy get that door shut behind them. So there is a change in the risk and in player habits right there.. but:

 

Even more interesting: if you can't log out in a building what do you do in a firefight? You are in the building and suddenly there are unfriendlies outside.

A standard solo thing is to shoot and then log and hope they won't rush you, or "pretend" to log and hope they do rush you.

A standard squad thing is for the squad to log and leave one volunteer rearguard to take the shots, then you meet him where he respawns and re-equip him.

If you are the squad outside you either wait, and the player inside will probably NOT come out or even surrender, or you can rush in and accept the casualties.

 

So - with no logout in the building, the situation has changed. Firstly it is more realistic, you are pinned down in a building, and the squad do not want to come in, they KNOW you are still there and they know they WILL take casualties.

And you KNOW you can't escape unless you do a Butch Cassidy, OR you really surrender.. see ? Suddenly there is an additional REALITY that was absent previously. You could even have a siege that goes on for hours, why not ?? with real negotiations for surrender.. with real desperate last stands..

And when you turn up at the airfield in the first place and get inside a building.. you now know you are NOT safer than outside.. you are maybe totally trapped.. "life and death" trapped.. so you have different stress levels and different expectations of the possible outcomes

 

So simply having one rule change, will change the whole game played around those buildings. If a sniper wants to get up on a roof he has to start on the ground and walk up there, he can't log on somewhere else and ghost around to a couple of populated servers for the evening.. if you want to log out at the NWAF you have to find some place to shelter before you log, you can't zap between rooms and servers without moving your feet or having to hide ..if you enter a building you have to keep a good lookout, because if someone turns up to cover the door, you are really in the shit.. just like Real Life.. one guy behind a bush with a shotgun, and suddeny you leaving the building is no fun at all, and you are STRESSED.. and you can't quietly log in a corner and hope to get away to a quiet server.

 

OK, so the gameplay changes, players have to adjust to the new situation, there is different stress for different reasons..

 

NOW - the other thing we need to do is see how that could be used for meta-gaming, or could adversely affect gameplay: Suppose someone fast logs, pulls the plug, while they are surrounded in the building.. what happens??

Well - Can't have the guy respawning somewhere on the perimiter, because he would be behind the dudes who trapped him, that would be too good to miss and a lot of players would take advantage of it.

Cant have him logged back in inside the building after a loss of connection, because then he could circumvent the whole rule, and log in or out where he liked just by pulling the plug

 

So if there is a loss of connection, or if there is a server restart, where is the player located when he logs in? He has to be somewhere that does not give him any advantage.. What do you suggest - directly outside the door of the building ? Even "somewhere fairly close" to the building would be an advantage if there was a squad covering you and you cheat-logged to escape, because the rule does not let you log in the normal way.. So - there's no problem for a server restart, everyone can be 'put back' exactly where they were (inside or out) no unfair advantage. BUT wherever the player is logged back in after a cheat logout (disconnection) - he can always use the cheat logout to save himself - so the player can get around the rule every time, unless a deliberate disconnection kills him in the building. But this is only the same as a fast logout when you're on a ladder ?

 

Anyway, I talked about this already.. And I hope I've showed that small changes in the game rules can produce very different gameplay and different expectations, especially in a locality famous for PvP. This idea might generate some interest n PvP players, and in anyone looking for excitement, or for a measure of realism.. just because it prevents the obvious stupid abnormalities that exist in the game at the moment, which are abused to the max by just about every pvp player and looter (everyone). This would make for more interesting fight scenarios, obviously.. the risks would be more realistic.. and all this from just ONE change that everyone can easily understand and live with.

 

But I have stuff to do in my real life (play DayZ bro)..my only point is - as long as you look down on and despise players who play differently than you, your solutions to "deal with them" will not be good solutions. And even without considering "hopping" - isn't my little rule change an interesting idea for the gameplay in many situations that are easy to imagine?

 

= it's just an idea.. I'm not trying to sell it to anyone, and no one's listening anyway, far as I can tell .. except the pristine contributors who search for phrases they can get stroppy about .. the player haters..

but that's a different game, it's not DayZ

 

pilgrim

 

this is LONG and Boring - but ya did ask, sorry.

Edited August 31, 2014 by pilgrim

[General Zod 1118]

There has been a lot of suggestions here, some good, some bad, some outright moronic. 

But what you have all failed to do is to look at the base of the problem.

Why is there server hopping. And why is it possible.

Answer is simple :

Centralized loot.

The only reason why people can hop is because they know where to goods are, military bases aside, when I walk into a town I know exactly where to look for weapons and other high value loot. If that was to change, if the loot was being randomly spawned in all building on all floors than server hopping would become inefficient, example :

Svetlojarsk 3 piano houses, 1 police station and 2 red brick corner houses, a grand total of 6 buildings in vicinity that are known to spawn weapons, and when I walk into that town, those are looted clean while rest of the town is untouched like a virgin Mary.

But if we were to randomize the weapon spawn so that it can spawn in any building, than they would not be able to jump on the server, check said six buildings and jump on another server, no they would have to devote time to looting.

Why bother with some harsh restriction that will hit normal players ?

Lets just make it impractical to hop servers. 

Edited August 31, 2014 by General Zod

[ColonelBurton 145]

So DayZ took another dump on me today by wiping my character, but at least now I figured out how to avoid it the next time (save for the global wipe obviously)

 

But I decided, despite being cheesed off to the maximum, to give it another shot since I liked hunting server hoppers so much.

 

Spawned at Svetlo South entrance and ran through a lot of buildings gearing up the basics and found an SKS as well as a Blaze and some ammo for the Blaze.

 

After encountering a player in a house, I ran for my life and headed to above mentioned military barracks to look for some ammunition.

 

As I discovered two full AKM clips in the upper room, I suddenly heard an array of clank noises around me, making me think I was being fired upon by an array of arrows (could have been a sound bug) So I ran out looking for the aggressor but couldn't find him or her. When I arrived at the top of the hill, I heard more clanking noises so I thought my hunter was nearby again. So real slow, I crept along the cliffs looking for him.

 

Still no luck. So I decided to hide in front of a tree hoping the guy would come by perhaps. How I hate that. Standing in the forest, hearing all sorts of strange noises around me that startle me occassionally, only turning out to be my imagination.

 

Suddenly I hear a step behind me. I turn looking (not really expecting somebody) and a black-skin full gear with painted AKM and drum mag and painted Mosin is spawning right behind me. I immediately unload my SKS and the guy disappears into thin air, his weapons lying around on the floor. I pick up all his stuff but have some difficulty obtaining some things, since his body went invisible. Still, I got all my lost items back I lost with the wipe. Minutes later, as I'm still clearing away my old weapons, suddenly a black fresh-spawn shows up running towards me. I warn him he ain't gonna get his stuff back. He keeps coming so I unload. "WHY ARE YOU SHOOTING AT ME!?!?" he cries with a French accent.

 

After he goes down, I finish clearing away my weapons. And would you believe, just as I'm done with them, the next server hopper shows up right next to me and runs past, doesn't even see me. Unfortunately I only hit him twice but not lethally. He runs past a rock into cover and I lose him.

 

This place is the best when it comes to getting the hoppers. I bagged three and injured another in only three days and killed a no-pants-guy on top of that (I don't trust people with no pants)

[Pandema 352]

Oh look, its a completely original and well though out thread! Actually, its another " How to Fix Server Hopping " thread, not like we've had a million of those.

[General Zod 1118]

Oh look, its a completely original and well though out thread! Actually, its another " How to Fix Server Hopping " thread, not like we've had a million of those.

Oh, look this is completely original and well thought out post! Actually it's another "I have nothing constructive to say" post, not like we've had a million of those. 

[bauertschi 254]

...

NOW - the other thing we need to do is see how that could be used for meta-gaming, or could adversely affect gameplay: Suppose someone fast logs, pulls the plug, while they are surrounded in the building.. what happens??

Well - Can't have the guy respawning somewhere on the perimiter, because he would be behind the dudes who trapped him, that would be too good to miss and a lot of players would take advantage of it.

Cant have him logged back in inside the building after a loss of connection, because then he could circumvent the whole rule, and log in or out where he liked just by pulling the plug

 

So if there is a loss of connection, or if there is a server restart, where is the player located when he logs in? He has to be somewhere that does not give him any advantage.. What do you suggest - directly outside the door of the building ? Even "somewhere close" to the building would be an advantage if there was a squad covering you and you cheat-logged to escape, because the rule does not let you log in the normal way.. So thats col for a server restart. BUT wherever the player is logged back in after a cheat logout (disconnection) - he can always use the cheat logout to save himself - so the player can get around the rule every time, unless a dissconnection kills him in the building. But this is the same as a fast logout when you're on a ladder ?

 

Anyway, I talked about this already.. And I hope I've showed that small changes in the game rules can produce very different gameplay and different expectations, especially in a locality famous for PvP. This idea might generate some interest n PvP players, and in anyone looking for excitement, or for a measure of realism.. just because it prevents the obvious stupid abnormalities that exist in the game at the moment, which are abused to the max by just about every pvp player and looter (everyone). This would make for more interesting fight scenarios, obviously.. the risks would be more realistic.. and all this from just ONE change that everyone can easily understand and live with.

 

But I have stuff to do in my real life (play DayZ bro)..my only point is - as long as you look down on and despise players who play differently than you, your solutions to "deal with them" will not be good solutions. And even without considering "hopping" - isn't my little rule change an interesting idea for the gameplay in many situations that are easy to imagine.

 

= it's just an idea.. I'm not trying to sell it to anyone, and no one's listening anyway, far as I can tell .. except the pristine contributers who search for phrases they can get stroppy about, the player haters..

but that's a different game, it's not DayZ

 

pilgrim

 

this is LONG and Boring - but ya did ask, sorry.

 

Ok, this has nothing to do with server hopping, unless you count logging in buildings, but that is not your issue here anyway.

 

Apart from that I love the idea. The idea of no logins in buildings was already thrown in the ring in the newly resurrected thread about login sounds. Of course ppl shot it down (if memory serves right) but I liked it nevertheless. As far as I am concerned, the login could be changed to the closest entrance of a building (outside) as a start, when the plug is pulled - the server getting no more messages from the client. The interesting part for doing this in a combat log scenario is logging out though. If the server is not restarting or something and the client is not sending messages any more, the current situation would mean that (guesswork) the player keeps moving in the way he was when the last message was sent or simply standing around. So the player is just sitting there and then vanishes some time later. Why not change that? If the client does not send messages any more, build in an additional step after the waiting time, transport him outside the closest door and give him the regular 30sec logout timer there, still on the same server. No more ripping out lan cables I'd guess. Now if zombie situations make 30 seconds really hard, I guess a little less is also acceptable, the squad outside will not need so much time ;). May seem harsh, but how often does that happen accidentially without the user triggering it? And no, Battleeye kicks should not count here. At least I hope users can't trigger a Battleeye kick... .

 

The biggest argument against disallowing logouts in buildings (besides just because) was getting killed by zeds in towns when you log back in, but I just got killed by zeds inside a house when logging in on experimental, so I don't see it as an argument. They killed me while I still had a black screen. On my stable char I never log in houses, not even when I get funky and decide to log in towns. The real requirement here is spawning the character AFTER syncing client and server, no standing around blind for 30 seconds while you log in. Then you could immediatelly start running, if the situation requires it.

 

Put it in suggestions INCLUDING your reasoning and I'll give beans, support it, ... . Now maybe we can return to preventing loot hopping in this thread. If that is good or evil should really be covered in a sepparate thread.

Edited August 31, 2014 by bautschi

[pilgrim* 3514]

Ok, this has nothing to do with server hopping  ..//..

Now maybe we can return to preventing loot hopping in this thread

 

OK you missed the point totally - but thanks for reading my post anyway, and my earlier posts, I guess you are the only one who did that.

Here is the simple version:

 

- Imagine you are a server hopper who wants to loot  NWAF

 

          1 = you cannot log in inside the structures at the airfield

          2 = outside the structures there are zombies

 

- what do you do ?

 

Really - just put yourself in that situation and think it through. Be a games desiger. Live a little !!

Even if you really want to HOP, or SNIPE from a ROOF, or GHOST.. you will NOT WANT to log in outside buildings, not under cover, in an area where there are zombies

We all understand this even if we have (cough) never ever hopped. You don't want to have log-in-paralysis at a location like that, do you ? If the zombies don't eat you other players will kill your ass before you can even MOVE.

So that will DEFINITELY ALTER the game plan of ANY hopper-player, for SURE.

You just have to judge how to set up your parameters to ensure his strategy is sufficiently altered by the revised game conditions ( wow, said this before ). Hope this clarifies the concept, dude.

 

I am not providing ONE solution already written out with the numbers in. I'm pointing to a METHOD that improves the game and includes all players in the solution, and improves immersion.

Unlike the timer, this in-game WAY OF WORKING is non-exclusive does not totally break immersion and no one is punished, the gameplay is def better and everyone has more fun.

You might propose "no login inside the walls of a military compound" for instance, or define any area that contains high value loot. etc etc..But I've explained all this well enough.

 

I KNOW (I mean I'm really sure)  that if Rocket or any other Dev read this they would definitely say :

 

Yes, that's cool, that would work, I understand that

or

Yes, that's cool, that would work I understand that, but we're not going to do it

 

°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°

 

If you players on this thread are all mainly interested in a log-in timer solution (and you've put aside gibonez original proposal, the helicopter-loot theory, and my own idea), then you have very little to discuss - ALL you need to decide is :

 

How often do you have to switch servers to be "a hopper"

How long is the log-in timer punishment ?

 

If you can just agree on these 2 simple parameters, you can put your proposal over on the Suggestions thread, where you'll find the same proposal has already been made a few times.

 

but .. but .. you tell me ALL this stuff I worked out and wrote down (and all the thought and the backup gameplay theory and the analysis and the on-paper testing that I did NOT bore you with) .. it all has "nothing to do with server hopping"   =  ??????   =   this makes me feel almost .. almost .. like I wasted my time.

Edited September 1, 2014 by pilgrim

[bauertschi 254]

OK you missed the point totally - but thanks for reading my post anyway, and my earlier posts, I guess you are the only one who did that.

Here is the simple version:

 

- Imagine you are a server hopper who wants to loot  NWAF

 

          1 = you cannot log in inside the structures at the airfield

          2 = outside the structures there are zombies

 

- what do you do ?

 

Really - just put yourself in that situation and think it through. Be a games desiger.

Even if you really want to HOP, or SNIPE from a ROOF, or GHOST.. you will NOT WANT to log in outside buildings, not under cover, in an area where there are zombies

We all understand this even if we have (cough) never ever hopped. You don't want to log in at a location like that, do you ? If the zombies don't eat you other players will kill your ass before you can even MOVE.

So that will DEFINITELY ALTER the game plan of ANY hopper-player, for SURE.

...

 

Lol, you did not waste your time. But I think your proposal will influence combat logging more than hopping. I do not know how zeds will be in the future, but from anywhere on the nwaf you can move 100 or 200 meters and be relatively secure to log currently, from zeds and from players. A hell lot of zeds (that are also better) might actually make that more problematic than now, but it would still be easy to do one tent town after the other with just a little running around. Take also into account how some ppl (like me) now actively use buildings to close zeds in. I prefer logging outside, even in Cherno or Electro. There are always little corners where you can hide in, wait and watch and then vanish. Logging in a house with 3 zeds inside does not look so funny as logging in outside in a hidden little corner as long as one can move immediatelly after appearing in the game. That is something that BI must solve and personally I think it is not a very big problem from a programmers point of view.

 

And it is also not only the nwaf. I have not played on low pop servers in quite a while, but I remember one time where I hopped to figure out how bad hopping really is for the loot distribution. I came into Gorka and all doors were closed with the exception of the police station. I got mad after going through Gorka a few times the last days and having seen that before. Then I looked how that was on other low pop servers. I jumped three or four times. On all servers the police station was looted, doors open. Only one server had other houses with open doors. Gorka is a special case, a lot of ppl pass it, almost all not very geared coming from the east and going to the west. Such players have reason to check cafes, pharmacies, ... . Only the police station being looted paints a pretty clear picture. I see that as a real problem - my opinion.

 

That was a while ago, I only play on really full servers these days, even if I just died and the server is already close to a new restart with little loot left. That is why I do not see your idea as a solution for loot farming through hopping. Will it reduce hopping? Yes. But not really all that much, I think.

 

What I like about your idea is the fact that everything results in what I consider positive effects. I would not allow logging out in any buildings at all though, already wrote that. Yes, some might argue that logging in towns will be more problematic because of zeds, but I see only good points compared to how it is now. I don't think logging in houses is ever a good idea, maybe that's a reason. I hate the thought of appearing behind someone who just cleared the building. Makes me feel like a cheat. And getting shot while logging in is also not desireable. No houses for me.

Edited September 1, 2014 by bautschi