Mosin-Nagant "Obrez" Modification? [Torchia Tweet]

[gibonez 3633]

We have to wait and see. Game is still so far from the beta phase in which they will start tweaking and polishing loot tables and stuff.

I agree that SKS should not be totaly basic weapon though. If they remove LRS from Mosin, that could be the most common rifle along with Sporter I guess. CZ527 should be more accurate than Mosin and be able to mount a scope ofc.

 

I could envision the Sporter 22, side by side shotgun, and a bare bones mosin with no accessories being the most common rifles in the game. Followed by mid tier gear such as the pump shotgun, lever action rifle, and sks then high end gear of course being the m4 , akm and ak101.

 

That would work and would fit the whole dire state of the world and the need for surival where even a .22 lr rifle is a great find.

[Chaingunfighter 917]

We have to wait and see. Game is still so far from the beta phase in which they will start tweaking and polishing loot tables and stuff.

I agree that SKS should not be totaly basic weapon though. If they remove LRS from Mosin, that could be the most common rifle along with Sporter I guess. CZ527 should be more accurate than Mosin and be able to mount a scope ofc.

Well, the Mosin can still use the PU Scope and the M44 compensator, and it's unlikely that they'll remove those since they were specifically designed for the Mosin. The Mosin could definitely be made more of a lower-end rifle, but I'd still say it's more of a mid-game weapon then anything else. It's not bad, but it's nothing special either.

 

I could envision the Sporter 22, side by side shotgun, and a bare bones mosin with no accessories being the most common rifles in the game. Followed by mid tier gear such as the pump shotgun, lever action rifle, and sks then high end gear of course being the m4 , akm and ak101.

 

That would work and would fit the whole dire state of the world and the need for surival where even a .22 lr rifle is a great find.

"Bare-bones" Mosin really isn't saying much considering the Mosin doesn't spawn with any attachments. Even if they remove the LRS, it'll probably still have the PU Scope and M44 Compensator, so it won't be completely without customization.

 

As a whole (with current weapon standings), this is what we'd get, assuming the weapons list stays the same until the release

 

Low-End

• Sporter-22
• IZH-43
• Makarov IJ70
• P1
• CR527 (without scope, if it does get one, then it'd be mid-tier)

Middle-End (Most of the guns)

• 1911
• LongHorn
• Magnum
• Blaze 95
• Mosin 9130
• SKS
• PM73 RAK
• CR75

High-End

• AK101
• M4A1
• MP5-K
• FNX45
• Amphibia S (because it's internally suppressed)
• AKM

Ultra-End

• Nothing

There's no real "balance" in the weapons right now. Sure, the overall setup is good, but I listed guns that probably shouldn't be high-tier (like the MP5-K) simply because they're select-fire and have a decent capacity. The AKM and AK101 are fairly high-tier because they have a load of customization, but as an individual weapon they're really mid-tier, as is the M4A1.

The FNX-45 is definitely a great pistol, though, and I'm okay with it being the top-tier pistol, and the Amphibia is up there simply because it is suppressed internally.

 

 

But I really don't think any of the guns ingame right now, or even planned, really dictate being made into "endgame" gear.

(Maybe the SVD, but if it has to be managed by the loot system then it should be one of the more common ones.)

[Katana67 2907]

Interesting to see some folks' thoughts on weapon tiering.

 

Personally, I think assault rifles should be mid-range just due to what they are innately.

 

The "high-end" should be made up of things which actually confer significant advantages, and/or fill a distinct niche. Like LMGs/GPMGs, DMRs, and dedicated sniper rifles.

[Chaingunfighter 917]

Interesting to see some folks' thoughts on weapon tiering.

 

Personally, I think assault rifles should be mid-range just due to what they are innately.

 

The "high-end" should be made up of things which actually confer significant advantages, and/or fill a distinct niche. Like LMGs/GPMGs, DMRs, and dedicated sniper rifles.

I wouldn't mind having a few assault rifles up at the top end of rarity, simply for unique value, sort of like the 1911 Engraved, only as its own platform. Obviously these have to be weapons that already have some similar equivalent that's more common, but that's beside the point.

[blunce 991]

I don't even see the point of this weapon, even less so since we have the longhorn.

 

Concealment.

[Evil Minion 943]

In DayZ any military tier weapon should be high tier with specialist weapons (SVD, RPG-7, RPD etc.) being ultra high tier. Mid tier should consist mainly of law enforcement and bigger hunting weapons while low tier would be the weaker hunting and self-defense weapons. The list up there respresents this pretty well though the better handguns might end up a little high. Also low tier doesn't mean bad - what they lack in power they might make up for in utility. For example the Sporter 22 is pretty quiet, accurate and easy to control and the Makarow might feature significantly less recoil than the other handguns - save the Amphibia S of course. On the other side high tier weapons might run into supply issues as automatic fire eats more ammo and might degrade the weapon much faster.

In the end I think it shouldn't be about (competitive) balance but about a realistic depiction of what the weapon is capable of. DayZ has the huge advantage of players not choosing from the beginning but rather having to play with the cards they are dealt. I think this should not go wasted.

5- Shoot faster? HOW? It's the SAME bolt action mechanism! You can't make it faster, if anything it would be SLOWER because of the awkward way you have to use the bolt mechanism on a shorter frame. Try using a rifle's bolt action mechanism while it's not pushed against your shoulder, awkward.

Should still be faster than the Longhorns single-shot break-action but of course slower than the Mosins bolt-action (because of the missing buttstock) Accuracy might be worse as the Longhorn is probably build with more care and focus on this while the Obrez as the shortened version of a mass produced rifle is probably lower quality.

[Katana67 2907]

I wouldn't mind having a few assault rifles up at the top end of rarity, simply for unique value

 

Yeah, I mean this is pretty much the only reason why I think some, but not all by any stretch, assault rifles could/should be in the "regulated" category. Vice just the "rare, but respawning" category.

 

Things like the OTs-14-1A which are really just party pieces, not really having much of a behavioral advantage over their conventional counterparts (i.e. the AKM) fit nicely into this category.

Edited August 9, 2014 by Katana67

[Chaingunfighter 917]

Yeah, I mean this is pretty much the only reason why I think some, but not all by any stretch, assault rifles could/should be in the "regulated" category. Vice just the "rare, but respawning" category.

 

Things like the OTs-14-1A which are really just party pieces, not really having much of a behavioral advantage over their conventional counterparts (i.e. the AKM) fit nicely into this category.

Pretty much.

 

But obviously something unique has to have a regular counterpart. Say they were to eventually had 5.45x39mm, it would be odd for them to add an AN-94 in the regulated category simply because it's cool, but then not have any other full-length rifles, like the AK-74. Nothing managed for uniqueness factor should be the only example of something that performs as such. Now, if they added an RPG-7, then that's different, because it adds a different layer of gameplay, but it's not entirely unique.

[-Gews- 7443]

Should be pretty much useless and terrible in every way but it's got that "Soviet cool"

[Chaingunfighter 917]

Should be pretty much useless and terrible in every way but it's got that "Soviet cool"

Some people prefer the most obscure, terrible, or "useless" Soviet/Eastern European weapons over internationally common weapons of western origin.

 

Seriously, I met a guy who said that the PP-19-01 Vityaz was a better choice than the MP5 because the PP-19-01 is Russian and the "game takes place in Russia". This was awhile before the MP5-K was done, so I doubt it was even on the merits of using the Kurz variant over a full-length one.

 

 

(Edit)

Nevermind, I thought you were talking about the previous conversation, not the Obrez (duh). I guess my point still stands true, though. The Obrez just isn't so much "obscure" or entirely uncommon.

Edited August 9, 2014 by Chaingunfighter

[Katana67 2907]

Some people prefer the most obscure, terrible, or "useless" Soviet/Eastern European weapons over internationally common weapons of western origin.

 

Which would be totally fine, if they didn't purport their preferences as fact (which isn't so anyhow) and/or tell other people that their preferences (even if they're just non-discriminatory, not opposing) are somehow wrong, and/or against what DayZ is.

 

I like all firearms, Soviet ones... Western ones... Blue ones... Golden ones... Rare ones... Common ones...

[rybec 339]

but of course slower than the Mosins bolt-action (because of the missing buttstock)

As long as you've cleaned the cosmoline out of a mosin the bolt slides like butter. There should be no difference in cycling speed when comparing the mosin to obrez.

[hells high 676]

Should be pretty much useless and terrible in every way but it's got that "Soviet cool"

 

Why? Essentially the long horn but with 5 rounds instead of 1. Especially if you are in an urban area and want something much faster to maneuver and more pointable than a full length 91/30.

 

If you are hanging out in the woods then yeah, probably don't cut it off, but its a hell of a lot of punch in a small package if you need to stick it in someone's chest.

 

---

 

I'd carry this just for the challenge. :P

 

Edited August 9, 2014 by Hells High

[gibonez 3633]

As long as you've cleaned the cosmoline out of a mosin the bolt slides like butter. There should be no difference in cycling speed when comparing the mosin to obrez.

 

No mosin bolt is smooth like butter. You could have the "smoothest" mosin bolt and it still sucks.

[gibonez 3633]

Some people prefer the most obscure, terrible, or "useless" Soviet/Eastern European weapons over internationally common weapons of western origin.

 

Yup and the devs have done a fantastic job on the weapon selection thus far we'll mostly.

 

They have put in weapons in the game that are unique and feel cohesive towards the setting.

 

Each and every weapon added thus far except for the 101 scream low tech poor rural eastern european setting and most of all they are believable.

 

When I go into a building and pick up the sks it feels authentic the gun along with most of the weapons just fit the setting so much and really gel with the atmosphere.

 

Really awesome to see the devs adding weapons like that such as the cz 527 , the weapon selection thus far is not like 99 percent of games who recycle the same few dozen or so modern guns and add the latest railed flavor of the week on each update.

[stielhandgranate 480]

Balance? This isn't an arcade game. These is nothing wrong with multiple weapons filling the same role.This is a great addition. Now thrifty survivor groups can gather even more type of shooters for their pals, even if its a low performing cut up shooter.

[Katana67 2907]

Each and every weapon added thus far except for the 101 scream low tech poor rural eastern european setting and most of all they are believable.

 

Oh yeah...

 

/cough FN FNX

 

/cough Amphibian S

 

/cough Blaser B95

 

/cough Kimber Warrior

[Chaingunfighter 917]

Yup and the devs have done a fantastic job on the weapon selection thus far we'll mostly.

 

They have put in weapons in the game that are unique and feel cohesive towards the setting.

 

Each and every weapon added thus far except for the 101 scream low tech poor rural eastern european setting and most of all they are believable.

 

When I go into a building and pick up the sks it feels authentic the gun along with most of the weapons just fit the setting so much and really gel with the atmosphere.

 

Really awesome to see the devs adding weapons like that such as the cz 527 , the weapon selection thus far is not like 99 percent of games who recycle the same few dozen or so modern guns and add the latest railed flavor of the week on each update.

M4A1 is low-tech? MP5-K is low-tech? FNX45 is low-tech? Amphibia S is low-tech?

 

Hell, even the AK-74M, which is what the model of the AK-101 was originally made to be for, isn't low-tech. And that's a very subjective distinction. I mean, the only difference between the AK-74M and the AK-74 is that the 74M uses polymer parts instead of wooden ones, that doesn't really change the tech level. The only difference between the 74M and the 101 is that the 101 uses 5.56x45mm.

I really doubt poor, rural farmers would have AK-74Ms or AK-101s, but I don't think it was ever implied that every single person to ever live (or occupy) Chernarus was poor, from a rural area, or a farmer, at all.

 

The AK-101 can also be explained through lore, if it's really necessary. Since you can argue that many of the M4A1s ingame were either captured or donated as military aid, then it might make sense for the CDF to purchase AK rifles chambered in 5.56 so they can utilize the surplus ammunition while still having access to AK parts. That's why Israel made TAR-21 variants in 5.56x45, 7.62x39, and even 5.45x39, so they could utilize all of the extra ammunition they captured during previous failed invasions of the country.

 

Either way, the AK-101 absolutely feels authentic. I mean, to be honest, any Eastern European setting can justify practically any AK variant, even the least-produced ones (and it's not like the 101 is anything obscure, just a 74M in 5.56).

 

 

I will admit that the DayZ weapon selection is very unique and well-picked, but it's not all low-tech.

[Katana67 2907]

-snip-

 

Either way, simply because a country's poor... doesn't mean that folks do not have a variety of weapons.

 

See Somalia.

[rybec 339]

No mosin bolt is smooth like butter. You could have the "smoothest" mosin bolt and it still sucks.

If I was so passionate to prove you wrong I'd make a video of mine. People saying they're hard to work just never cleaned their rifle or even worse have never used one and are spouting opinions from someone else.

[Katana67 2907]

If I was so passionate to prove you wrong I'd make a video of mine. People saying they're hard to work just never cleaned their rifle or even worse have never used one and are spouting opinions from someone else.

 

Mine gets pretty chunky when I haven't cleaned it in a while.

 

But yeah, when it's taken care of, I have no complaints.

 

I don't really take good care of my Mosin, regrettably. Definitely my "beater" gun.

Edited August 10, 2014 by Katana67

[gibonez 3633]

I will concede that yes the fnx and the m4 might not be "low tech" then again I would consider those two to be at the very high end of their weapon category.

 

Both I assume were added to take advantage and test the new accessory system and both are without a doubt the most versatile and modular weapons in their category hence why I consider them ultra high end.

 

With the m4 you have the de facto special operations firearm that can fit any need and role that is required of it hence why it is adopted the world over as the premier special ops weapon.

Then you have the fnx a pistol that comes from the factory ready for a suppressor , a high iron sights for the suppressor the gun was built for modularity so it only makes sense for it to be in the game as a high end pistol.

 

With that all said even these two "high end" weapons are relatively low end in the grand scheme of things and they fit right in with the games other weapons. The great news is the weapon selection continues to improve with more weapons that fit right in with the upcoming lever action rifle and the Russian 870 clone. It is just nice to see the devs not having the same weapons that 99 percent of games have.

[Katana67 2907]

With that all said even these two "high end" weapons are relatively low end in the grand scheme of things and they fit right in with the games other weapons. The great news is the weapon selection continues to improve with more weapons that fit right in with the upcoming lever action rifle and the Russian 870 clone. It is just nice to see the devs not having the same weapons that 99 percent of games have.

 

That doesn't mean they won't.

 

All of the indications that I've gathered (including developer statements, conversations, plans, etc.), lead me to believe that they plan on implementing a wider variety of weapons over time. But either way, I can only speculate as to what they're likely to put in... the same as you. They haven't had license to put in a distinct "high-end" because they haven't had the architecture to implement it in the way they'd like (i.e. the loot management system).

 

I can only deal with what they've categorically ruled out. Which, at this point, is only anti-materiel rifles. Anything else... be it "Western/Eastern," "Military/Civilian," a PKM or an M40A5, is still up for grabs.

 

Many shooters have M4A1s. Many shooters have AK variants. Many shooters have M1911s. Many shooters have <insert any weapon of remark here>. If we start saying that all weapons which have been featured in video games beforehand are somehow less worthy, we're left with an insanely slim and limited number of weapons to choose from.

 

Most, if not all (save for the CZ 527 perhaps) of the weapons in DayZ have been featured prominently in major video game franchises. And even then, the ones that haven't (the CZ 527, the IZH-43, and the MP-133) are just generic stand-ins for something else (i.e. a bolt-action hunting rifle, a double-barrelled shotgun, and a Remington 870).

 

That and I'm willing to bet, given what you've said in the past, that certain weapons which owe their popularity/relevance almost solely due to their popularization in video games (i.e. the AN-94, the Vepr, the AK-12, the OTs-14, and to an extent the VSS, etc.) wouldn't bother you.

 

Point being, most weapons (including the ones in DayZ) are popularized by video games/movies.

Edited August 10, 2014 by Katana67

[Bororm 1156]

 

Both I assume were added to take advantage and test the new accessory system

This is true, they've said they made the m4 first because it was the most "complex" weapon, what with all the attachments and such.  So it was easiest to make the most complex thing first to test all their systems etc.

 

 

That doesn't mean they won't.

 

All of the indications that I've gathered (including developer statements, conversations, plans, etc.), lead me to believe that they plan on implementing a wider variety of weapons over time.

 

Many shooters have M4A1s. Many shooters have AK variants. Many shooters have M1911s. Many shooters have <insert any weapon of remark here>. If we start saying that all weapons which have been featured in video games beforehand are somehow less worthy, we're left with an insanely slim and limited number of weapons to choose from.

 

Most, if not all (save for the CZ 527 perhaps) of the weapons in DayZ have been featured prominently in major video game franchises. And even then, the ones that haven't (the CZ 527, the IZH-43, and the MP-133) are just generic stand-ins for something else.

 

That and I'm willing to bet, given what you've said in the past, that weapons which owe their popularity/relevance almost solely due to their popularization in video games (i.e. the AN-94, the Vepr, the AK-12, the OTs-14, and to an extent the VSS, etc.) wouldn't bother you.

 

Point being, most weapons (including the ones in DayZ) are popularized by video games/movies.

 

 

I'd never seen a double rifle in any major video game before DayZ.  I think the Longhorn is pretty "unique" too in terms of video games. And now the Obrez.  I think those are the kinds of guns Gibonez may have been referring to, that you don't see in most shooters.

 

Though I also agree with you, and think it's likely we'll see all the "popular" guns as well.  

 

I like seeing less common weapons like the ones I just listed above though.  I think there was even talks of including this thing:

 

I mean I'm not a gun nut or anything, I'm just a guy who plays a lot of video games and I gotta say DayZ has so far introduced me to more interesting guns than the vast majority of other FPS games I've played over the last decade.

 

(just so we're perfectly clear, by common I am referring only to video games.  I dunno shit about how common these guns are irl.  Which is reinforcing your statement about how video games/movies popularize these weapons)

Edited August 10, 2014 by Bororm

[Katana67 2907]

I'd never seen a double rifle in any major video game before DayZ.  I think the Longhorn is pretty "unique" too in terms of video games. And now the Obrez.  I think those are the kinds of guns Gibonez may have been referring to, that you don't see in most shooters.

 

The Longhorn has been featured in a few prominent anime (see Cowboy Bebop). I hadn't ever heard of it. And I'd guess that the obrez is more so popularized by, aptly, popular culture more than anything else (similar to the way sawn-off shotguns have been popularized by American criminal culture). And lest we forget, it hasn't been confirmed. There are a lot of unique weapons, I like the weapon selection so far. 

 

But to say that they've had a distinct focus on weapons which aren't featured in other prominent video games is not only inaccurate given what we have now, but it'd be incredibly short-sighted if they actually did this.

 

Video games and movies feature a wide variety of weapons, both common and rare. It's not like they're somehow less worthy for being hackneyed (i.e. the M4A1, M1911, AKM, etc.), "unique/obscure/unused" (i.e. the Thompson Center Contender, the AK-101, FN FNX), expensive (i.e. the Amphibian S and the Blaser B95), or previously unfeatured (i.e. the IZH-43 and CZ-527).

Edited August 10, 2014 by Katana67