Mosin-Nagant "Obrez" Modification? [Torchia Tweet]

[gibonez 3633]

 

 

 

I like seeing less common weapons like the ones I just listed above though.  I think there was even talks of including this thing:

 

 

That is actually in a big mainstream game .

 

 

Atleast the mall ninja version of it. Pretty comical tbh.

 

 

 

But to say that they've had a distinct focus on weapons which aren't featured in other prominent video games is not only inaccurate given what we have now, but it'd be incredibly short-sighted if they actually did this.

 

No it wouldn't it would fit right in the game does not feel like it intends to be an open world pvp game after all and instead it seems to be taking the survival aspects more seriously.

 

I don't see how having a wide range of military weapons is important in a zombie survival sim if that is indeed what they are aiming for.

Edited August 10, 2014 by gibonez

[Katana67 2907]

No it wouldn't it would fit right in the game does not feel like it intends to be an open world pvp game after all and instead it seems to be taking the survival aspects more seriously.

 

I don't see how having a wide range of military weapons is important in a zombie survival sim if that is indeed what they are aiming for.

 

The "it doesn't fit" argument.

 

Syntax issues aside, there's nothing that "fits" less so about a wide variety of weapons in a game which takes survival seriously. You can still have a variety of firearms, whilst having "deep" survival mechanics. The issue there, is rarity/scarcity... not the presence of a particular platform.

 

Doesn't matter if I have an SVD or a Mk 17 if I still need to feed, hydrate, clothe, protect, and heal myself.

 

I don't see how it's somehow contrary to a zombie survival game to have a wide variety of firearms. Most open-world games, most post-apocalyptic open-world games, have a wide variety of firearms. There's nothing about a variety of firearms that detracts from what a game is.

 

And your big thing is "realism." Well, in reality, there are a lot of firearms out there.

Edited August 10, 2014 by Katana67

[-Gews- 7443]

Why? Essentially the long horn but with 5 rounds instead of 1. Especially if you are in an urban area and want something much faster to maneuver and more pointable than a full length 91/30.

Not the same thing at all, one of them shoots where you point it

[Bororm 1156]

No it wouldn't it would fit right in the game does not feel like it intends to be an open world pvp game after all and instead it seems to be taking the survival aspects more seriously.

 

I don't see how having a wide range of military weapons is important in a zombie survival sim if that is indeed what they are aiming for.

 

You must be playing a different game than me because while it is in part due to a lack of other content, the game is most definitely focused on open world pvp.  They've even acknowledged multiple times now that players are the biggest threat.

 

Will there be more survival based gameplay as well? yes.  But the pvp isn't going any where, and in fact only stands to become more meaningful as the pve aspects are fleshed out, as it will result in more to lose and more to gain from those encounters.

 

Variety is nice, and I hope they include as many guns as possible, both odd ones and common.

[Merrick362 (DayZ) 263]

I for one like this. Right now I'm carrying a .22, Makarov, and sawn off shotgun.

The shotgun is for close encounters where I need more punch then the .22 will offer. If I can replace that with a rifle, why not?

The damn thing in my jacket. This is why that's important.

I'm getting held up. The bandit tells me to drop my .22 and axe on my shoulder. I go into my inventory, do as he says, but slip the sawn off from my bag to my jacket. He tells me to take off my bag. I do so, he thinks I'm unarmed. The next thing he knows, I've got him dead to rights with a full sized rifle round instead of some pea shooter pistol.

[Chaingunfighter 917]

Either way, simply because a country's poor... doesn't mean that folks do not have a variety of weapons.

 

See Somalia.

Yeah, seriously.

 

The Vietnam War is perhaps one of my favorite examples of a force (the NVA/Viet Cong) who truly utilized everything. And keep in mind this was at a time when modern variations of firearms were just starting to take shape.

 

What did they have?

• Donated Soviet World War II weapons - Tokarev TT-33s, Nagant M1895s, PPS-43s, PPSh-41s, SVT-40s, Mosin-Nagants (M38s, M44s, M91/30s, you name it)
• Donated Soviet/Eastern Bloc Post-WW2 weapons - Makarov PM, Stetchkin APS, SKS, AK-47s (AK-47/49s, AK-47/52s, AKS-47s, etc.), AKMs (and AKMS'), RPD, RPK, RPG-2, RPG-7, SVD, Type 56, Type 63, SA Vz.58, SA Vz.61, P-64, etc.
• Donated German World War II weapons - KAR-98Ks, Gewehr 98s, MP-38s (and MP-40s), StG-44s, MG-34s, MG-42s
• Captured Japanese weapons - Arisakas (mainly Type 99s, but plenty of others), Type 11 LMGs, Type 100 SMGs, Nambu Type 14s
• Captured French weapons (from the French-Indochina war) - MAS-36s, MAS-49/56s, MAT-49s
• Captured American/CIDG/Australian weapons - Colt 1911s, Browning Hi-Powers, S&W M39s, S&W Model 15s, MAC-10s/MAC-11s, IMI Uzis (Mini, Micro, and Full Sized), Walther MPL (and MPK), M1 Garands, M1 Carbines (And M1A1 and M2 variants), M1903 Springfields, M3 Greaseguns, M1921/M1928 Thompsons M14 rifles (and M21s), M16s (lots, XM16E1s, M16s, and M16A1s), CAR-15s (E1s, E2s, XM177s, all sorts), Ithaca 37s, Remington 870s, Winchester M1897s, M60s, Stoner M63s, M79s, M72 LAWs, L1A1s/FN FALs, Stens, Sterlings, F1 Smgs and a whole lot more
• Homemade variants of pre-existing weapons - Most notably the K-50M and locally produced Thompsons, but they also had AKs assembled in Vietnam.
• Probably a ton of other undocumented weapons.

This was obviously across the 50s, 60s, and 70s, and not every weapon saw frequent or even multiple uses across the war by VCs(I doubt many Stoner 63s were captured, even though it did happen), but it's an overall representation of Vietnam rather than just a specific point, just like DayZ in Chernarus is.

 

But it's still very interesting, because in Vietnam most of the NVA soldiers and VCs actually WERE farmers, unlike in Chernarus, where there's a lot more diversity, and yet they still had all of these different weapons, many of which were top of the line at the time, and still prove invaluable today.

[hombrecz 832]

I think that sometimes people fail to see difference between poor country being directly supported by more advanced countries, no matter if the reason is political or religion and just poor country nobody gives two damns about.

 

So yes, in Vietnam they had ton of gear, but they were directly backed up by almost whole Eastern block, which kinda made big difference. Also while I can agree with "doesn't mean that folks do not have a variety of weapons." but it should be obvious that said weapons will be often obsolete and barely shooting straight.

 

All in all, I would strongly disagree with Vietnam being "model" role for east European conflict when talking about weapons.

Same as Ukraine rebels being backed up by Russia and Oligarchs are another specific case.

 

In the end it all depends on devs though, they can implement unicorns if they wished.

[Katana67 2907]

All in all, I would strongly disagree with Vietnam being "model" role for east European conflict when talking about weapons.

Same as Ukraine rebels being backed up by Russia and Oligarchs are another specific case.

 

In the end it all depends on devs though, they can implement unicorns if they wished.

 

Nothing is being held up as a model. Vietnam, Ukraine, Kosovo/Serbia, Somalia, Iraq, Afghanistan... are all examples of how small arms can be, and are, broadly imported/exported. Not to mention that the internal production models of a variety of countries (Imbel in Brazil, TAM in Georgia, RPC Fort in Ukraine, etc.) support a broader definition of small arms distribution.

 

What we are saying is that poor =/= disarmed. So when someone says "Oh, Chernarus is poor... so they wouldn't have a lot of weapons," they're ignoring the circumstances which you highlight in that we live in a globalized economy/world wherein foreign governments supply arms to militant groups and other militaries. There are circumstances which provide for a variety of weapons.

 

I mean, how else did Mk 17s get in the hands of Kenyan soldiers? FNH (probably FNH USA) sold them to Kenya.

 

That and some of the poorest nations in the world, funnel a disproportionate amount of money into their militaries. So, lest we forget, we're talking about overall small arms prevalence and not just civilian ownership.

 

Chernarus is a militarized state, similar to Kosovo/Serbia and Chechnya (the former has one of the highest per-capita civilian gun ownership rates in the world). The result of a violent internal conflict, which drew the interest of foreign powers in a massive intervention. In nearly all of the cases highlighted above, small arms were... or are subsequently... commonplace... owing to the conflict and circumstances.

Edited August 10, 2014 by Katana67

[Chaingunfighter 917]

I think that sometimes people fail to see difference between poor country being directly supported by more advanced countries, no matter if the reason is political or religion and just poor country nobody gives two damns about.

 

So yes, in Vietnam they had ton of gear, but they were directly backed up by almost whole Eastern block, which kinda made big difference. Also while I can agree with "doesn't mean that folks do not have a variety of weapons." but it should be obvious that said weapons will be often obsolete and barely shooting straight.

 

All in all, I would strongly disagree with Vietnam being "model" role for east European conflict when talking about weapons.

Same as Ukraine rebels being backed up by Russia and Oligarchs are another specific case.

 

In the end it all depends on devs though, they can implement unicorns if they wished.

Well, in ArmA 2, Chernarus was in the midst of civil war between the CHDKZ and the government.

 

The CHDKZ were an insurgent force that was heavily backed up by the Russians and arms dealers coming from all over. The CDF was heavily supported by NATO, especially after the conflict died down post-invasion. Then of course there were the NAPA guerrillas, who were just (mainly) regular civilians who used weapons captured from both sides and just fought to defend their lands.

 

This is very similar to how the situation in Ukraine is going.

 

 

And do you honestly think people in the US really cared about Vietnam anymore than some place like Chernarus? The only reason people started to care was because the Korean-War model of "Send troops to support democratic independence from communism!" could've applied there, and then people cared afterwards because the war was going horribly and over 50,000 Americans died.

 

It's just wrong to make the argument that Chernarus was insignificant for it's entire past, just for the fact that the lore makes that incorrect.

[pale1776 375]

Look at the examples, they have fluted barrels... machined muzzles... carved wood stocks... iron sights missing... bent/shortened bolt handles... iron sights moved to accommodate the shorter barrel... outright fabricated stocks/grips...

The Fluting? Thats dirt on the barrel, nice job.

The machining? Hacksaw, and work. I did it to one that had a boomerang like barrel the last foot of it.

The sights missing? Their held on by a metal rod, and you take a brass punch, or screwdriver and pound it out. Boom, sights missing. Of course, you can just leave them on.

Carved stocks? Thats just extra, just cut off the buttstock.

Just cut the stock, and cut the barrel. You want to find the extra tools and take the time to make it all look nice, go for it. Its not required, just cosmetic.

Im willing to bet youve never seen a Mosin, let alone made an Obrez and work on them like I do.

[Katana67 2907]

Just cut the stock, and cut the barrel. You want to find the extra tools and take the time to make it all look nice, go for it. Its not required, just cosmetic.

Im willing to bet youve never seen a Mosin, let alone made an Obrez and work on them like I do.

 

If you read the thread, you'd know that I corrected my statement about the fluting. It appears to be the attachment points of the removed irons, and would be more aptly termed "vented" regardless.

 

I don't work on Mosins. I do own one, though. I've never claimed to be an armorer.

 

Maybe try relaxing with the assumptive ad hominem, though? Would help, methinks.

Edited August 11, 2014 by Katana67

[pale1776 375]

Well, in ArmA 2, Chernarus was in the midst of civil war between the CHDKZ and the government.

The CHDKZ were an insurgent force that was heavily backed up by the Russians and arms dealers coming from all over. The CDF was heavily supported by NATO, especially after the conflict died down post-invasion. Then of course there were the NAPA guerrillas, who were just (mainly) regular civilians who used weapons captured from both sides and just fought to defend their lands.

This is very similar to how the situation in Ukraine is going.

And do you honestly think people in the US really cared about Vietnam anymore than some place like Chernarus? The only reason people started to care was because the Korean-War model of "Send troops to support democratic independence from communism!" could've applied there, and then people cared afterwards because the war was going horribly and over 50,000 Americans died.

It's just wrong to make the argument that Chernarus was insignificant for it's entire past, just for the fact that the lore makes that incorrect.

And this guy knows it. Poor countries are hotspots for arms dealers. Low income areas, poor soldiers/police/border agents are easier to bribe in exchange for silence. And what else do you pay them in besides money? Women, drugs, slaves, THE GUNS YOU HAVENT SOLD

Also, arent you Rolle from DayZRP?

[gibonez 3633]

Also isn't Obrez just a common word for a chopped up bolt rifle ?

 

Aren't there Obrez enfields and mausers too ?

[Katana67 2907]

Aren't there Obrez enfields and mausers too ?

 

Yep, a few of the ones in the OP are actually Mausers (second image from the top).

 

And the Jawas in A New Hope were sporting cut-down SMLEs.

 

[Chaingunfighter 917]

And this guy knows it. Poor countries are hotspots for arms dealers. Low income areas, poor soldiers/police/border agents are easier to bribe in exchange for silence. And what else do you pay them in besides money? Women, drugs, slaves, THE GUNS YOU HAVENT SOLD

Also, arent you Rolle from DayZRP?

No, unfortunately I'm not Rolle, I always go under the alias "John Doe", (or Jane Doe) for whatever reason.

 

But yeah, any place rife with conflict is going to displace a lot of people and make them poor, so a lot of guns would've been brought in to further fuel the fire (because, hey, arms dealers just want to make money).

 

 

Also isn't Obrez just a common word for a chopped up bolt rifle ?

 

Aren't there Obrez enfields and mausers too ?

 

Not sure exactly what Obrez translates to, but yes, you can have chopped up versions of practically any rifle. As long as the mechanisms that allow the gun to fire are left intact, it could still work, it'd just perform much worse.

 

Even though it is possible, I don't really see any reason to add chopped up versions of any other guns ingame. The IZH-43 works well because Sawed-Off shotguns are a commonplace and the utility of one definitely exists, and the Obrez is definitely interesting, but otherwise I can't really see anything but the Blaze 95 having any utility, and even then, why someone would cut up a multi-thousand dollar rifle is beyond me.

 

I mean, I wouldn't complain if they added sawed-off variants of other guns, but I see no pragmatic usefulness in adding sawed-off Sporter-22s, or CR-527s, or SKS rifles. They'd just be useless aesthetics with a worse performance than their regular counterparts.

[pilgrim* 3514]

Also isn't Obrez just a common word for a chopped up bolt rifle ?

 

Aren't there Obrez enfields and mausers too ?

 

"obrez" means 'cut down'

in Russia "obrezani" can indicate 'circumcised'

[Katana67 2907]

I mean, I wouldn't complain if they added sawed-off variants of other guns, but I see no pragmatic usefulness in adding sawed-off Sporter-22s, or CR-527s, or SKS rifles. They'd just be useless aesthetics with a worse performance than their regular counterparts.

 

I could see the actual utility of it, if there were barrel-environment collisions rendered in DayZ.

 

But yeah, I suppose now, the sacrifice may end up being accuracy/range for the ability to store it in one's backpack.

 

I'd love to see some, perhaps purpose-built (rather than outright modified) SBRs kicking around as well.

[Chaingunfighter 917]

I could see the actual utility of it, if there were barrel-environment collisions rendered in DayZ.

 

But yeah, I suppose now, the sacrifice may end up being accuracy/range for the ability to store it in one's backpack.

 

I'd love to see some, perhaps purpose-built (rather than outright modified) SBRs kicking around as well.

The CR527 was re-done into the carbine variant, so hopefully it can be a viable rifle in close areas (Not that it's really a high-end rifle, but I'd sooner prefer it over the Mosin in CQB).

 

I really want a MK18, or even a CAR-15, with a 10.5' barrel (preferably the MK18, because it can use the M4 handguards & optics, too). But some intermediate-cartridge weapons for close quarters, besides just SMGs, would be nice.

[spensah 8]

Pretty sure the 527 was always the carbine model^

[gibonez 3633]

Pretty sure the 527 was always the carbine model^

 

Yup the only change done was the caliber was changed to 7.62x39 with the option of a potential varmint 527 in the future in .223

[spensah 8]

Cz527 FS. Torchia pls.

[gibonez 3633]

Cz527 FS. Torchia pls.

 

But the fs won't have these sweet muzzle velocities that the Varmint achieves with its thick long barrel.

 

[hombrecz 832]

Well, in ArmA 2, Chernarus was in the midst of civil war between the CHDKZ and the government.

 

And do you honestly think people in the US really cared about Vietnam anymore than some place like Chernarus? The only reason people started to care was because the Korean-War model of "Send troops to support democratic independence from communism!" could've applied there, and then people cared afterwards because the war was going horribly and over 50,000 Americans died.

 

Devs haven't confirmed that Arma 2 lore = DayZ lore. They did not say in what year this is happening, neither if it is in the same Armaverse so to speak. In that regard your comment is moot and the whole CHDKZ vs government might not apply at all. 

 

As for Vietnam, I was trying to point out that it was very specific case, when talking about weapons. One that could hardly be used as a model for East European conflict happening tens of years later.  

[Capo 323]

Devs haven't confirmed that Arma 2 lore = DayZ lore. They did not say in what year this is happening, neither if it is in the same Armaverse so to speak. In that regard your comment is moot and the whole CHDKZ vs government might not apply at all. 

 

As for Vietnam, I was trying to point out that it was very specific case, when talking about weapons. One that could hardly be used as a model for East European conflict happening tens of years later.  

 

 

They're probably not going to, keep us guessing. 

Edited August 11, 2014 by Capo

[Katana67 2907]

Devs haven't confirmed that Arma 2 lore = DayZ lore.

 

They did say, that the events of ARMA II factor in to Chernarus plus.

 

I could tell you how Chernarus isn't Russia and I could explain the research I have conducted on my own by visiting gun shops in Russia and in Czech Republic and the massive variety of guns and ammo you can find there. I could tell you that the back story of Chernarus + rides on the back of ArmA2 in which there was large amounts of NATO forces and US personnel conducting an FID mission ~ Chris Torchia