First Balancing pass on firearms

[-Gews- 7443]

I'm so glad they've changed the pistol accuracy. What were the values before, do you remember?

5 times that

[DeatHTaX 1217]

5 times that

 

Now they've changed pistol accuracy for the better? or worse. Because there were times before this build I would try to shoot at a zombie 15 meters in front of me with the revolver and would miss horrifically, with absolutely no sway, no broken limbs, no nothing.

[pilgrim* 3514]

..//..

Perhaps they embraced a more realistic approach to the handguards and stocks .

 

Yep, at the moment you can take them off and throw them away and it don't change a thing.

That's pretty realistic - think how much money the army will save when it finds out.

[pilgrim* 3514]

Is it just me or have they further increased the weapon sway on the mosin?

 

it is really hard now to stay on target, even if it is not moving while firing prone and being rested...

 

eventually a little overkill if you ask me

 

This seems to be the case, IMO

Mosin with LRS = The crosshairs describe a fascinating progression of curves and loops around and throught the target, highly unpredictable. I could watch it for hours. At 300m the crosshairs move over an area of diameter maybe 6_8 feet?. more ?

However, I understand it's what the gun lobby has campaigned for - "realistic MOA accuracy + sway" to simulate a real gun.

 

Also a shootist faction desires that the compensator should have no effect on accuracy, because it is an attachment that has no effect on MOA accuracy in real life.

No one suggests how to increase shooter accuracy in the game, when the compensator is added.

 

Anyway.. yes there is a very interesting sway on the mosin+LRS at present. I wonder what the expert snipers think ?

Myself, I use it as a spotting scope, it's not much useful apart from that. If there's any action, I just drop it and go to M4, if it's still there later I pick it up again.

You can't predict the crosshair sway movement so you can't compensate for it, so your 'sniping' is really long-rang snapshooting. Does anyone hit targets at 500m with the Mosin+LRS today ?

 

No one else has commented on it ..

Edited July 31, 2014 by pilgrim

[Katana67 2907]

Yeah I mean the sway isn't very well done. It's something really hard to do well in video games, from both a "realistic" and pragmatic point of view.

 

When I aim my Mosin, again, I'm not shoving the muzzle side to side drunkenly in a 12-inch wide figure-eight.

 

Sway, for me at least, is largely vertical. I'd say (just eyeballing) that it's 70% vertical and 30% horizontal in terms of distance moved. I contribute this to the fact that the weapon is shouldered, vice floating around aimlessly. What dictates the motion of my weapon moreso than unsteadiness in my hands, is my breath, which is relatively linear (your chest heaves up and down).

 

And again, I don't really think that sprinting/running should throw off your aim that much. I mean, I like that the sway has been increased because it encourages people to take their time, but there's a point at which it becomes prohibitive. I think we're pretty close to that point, so perhaps some more tweaking is in order.

 

It isn't jumping point-to-point as it was/is in ARMA II, which is great. But it isn't a massive lazy side to side motion as it is now.

[slippery gypsy 107]

so does MoA still count for a longhorn or is it negated because it is a single shot weapon .... also does anyone know where they spawn now if at all ?

[DeatHTaX 1217]

Any word on the MP5? when I tested the thing I was really surprised how extreme its dispersion is. Having it somewhat more accurate would make it a viable weapon outside of houses, and justify its rarity.

 

They can't have possibly made it any more useless than it already was lol

 

 

....can they? xD

[-Gews- 7443]

No one suggests how to increase shooter accuracy in the game, when the compensator is added.

You don't :lol:

[pilgrim* 3514]

You don't :lol:

 

I have argued the difference between gun accuracy and shooter accuracy (which I guess you know, better than me) and hoped to point out the limitations of reproducing MOA accuracy in-game for "gun realism".

So now you have a dispersion value and a sway value - which would you prefer that the compensator influences ?

 

Frankly I'm interested in game structure - I mean I'm interested in online computer games, I don't spend a great deal of time on guns as real-world objects. I know that a compensator is designed as an aid to the shooter, and I also know from the many posts here that messing with MOA is anathema and heretical, because of course in the real world the compensator does not change the gun's MOA.

 

So should a compensator produce less sway - in the game simulation ? Interesting problem for the advocates of realism. And the true problem is what it has always been: how to program a satisfying range of virtual weapons in a computer game.

 

°°°

[edit: or are you saying that compensators don't change anything, in the real world, and their use is simply a mistake?]

Edited July 31, 2014 by pilgrim

[-Gews- 7443]

[edit: or are you saying that compensators don't change anything, in the real world, and their use is simply a mistake?]

Yes, it shouldn't change much at all, only reduce recoil, it should not make the rifle or shooter more accurate. It will reduce recoil but it will increase noise and blast. Right now you are effectively FORCED to use one if you want to snipe at people with a Mosin, it's really not an option if you want to hit where you're aiming, which is not authentic at all, and I don't like the aesthetics of it either. The brake in the game is a really cheap clamp-on one as well. On a semi-automatic rifle or something that kicks real hard a brake or compensator will have more use, on a DayZ Mosin where it already takes a full 2 sec before you can shoot again it should not be very helpful at all.

[Bororm 1156]

Supposedly the longhorn is very accurate now and has minimal sway.  I'm skeptical it is mosin accurate at long range though but I haven't used it myself yet.

[hotcakes 348]

Supposedly the longhorn is very accurate now and has minimal sway.  I'm skeptical it is mosin accurate at long range though but I haven't used it myself yet.

 

Longhorn's 7 MOA vs its previous 34.4. 

 

now you can trikshot wif it xDDDD

 

[-Gews- 7443]

Supposedly the longhorn is very accurate now and has minimal sway.  I'm skeptical it is mosin accurate at long range though but I haven't used it myself yet.

It's a quarter as accurate as the Mosin plus LRS plus compensator.

[Calvin Candie 189]

This seems to be the case, IMO

Mosin with LRS = The crosshairs describe a fascinating progression of curves and loops around and throught the target, highly unpredictable. I could watch it for hours. At 300m the crosshairs move over an area of diameter maybe 6_8 feet?. more ?

However, I understand it's what the gun lobby has campaigned for - "realistic MOA accuracy + sway" to simulate a real gun.

Also a shootist faction desires that the compensator should have no effect on accuracy, because it is an attachment that has no effect on MOA accuracy in real life.

No one suggests how to increase shooter accuracy in the game, when the compensator is added.

Anyway.. yes there is a very interesting sway on the mosin+LRS at present. I wonder what the expert snipers think ?

Myself, I use it as a spotting scope, it's not much useful apart from that. If there's any action, I just drop it and go to M4, if it's still there later I pick it up again.

You can't predict the crosshair sway movement so you can't compensate for it, so your 'sniping' is really long-rang snapshooting. Does anyone hit targets at 500m with the Mosin+LRS today ?

No one else has commented on it ..

Hey man. I am a Mosin user by religion and I do find it unusable with 0.47 update.

Here is my experience from the update yesterday.

As has been said, sway makes aiming impossible if you were just sprinting, even crouched.

Had couple of firefights. Shooting at a player who is zig zaging away from you at 300-400m is a thing of the past for me now. I had 2 guys in my scope, fired 10 shots, 1 hit. I was proning at level ground and they were running at level ground. I do not suck at sniping at all, even from the Mod days. Until now. Now I suck like a bambi sucks a long end of a bandits...gun.

I love bolt action rifles but my mosin will have to wait for better times. Switched to akm.

As you said it, it is snapshooting now.

Edited August 1, 2014 by Calvin Candie

[gibonez 3633]

Hey man. I am a Mosin user by religion and I do find it unusable with 0.47 update.

Here is my experience from the update yesterday.

As has been said, sway makes aiming impossible if you were just sprinting, even crouched.

Had couple of firefights. Shooting at a player who is zig zaging away from you at 300-400m is a thing of the past for me now. I had 2 guys in my scope, fired 10 shots, 1 hit. I was proning at level ground and they were running at level ground. I do not suck at sniping at all, even from the Mod days. Until now. Now I suck like a bambi sucks a long end of a bandits...gun.

I love bolt action rifles but my mosin will have to wait for better times. Switched to akm.

As you said it, it is snapshooting now.

 

It is not bad man. It just requires some readjustment to the new system.

[DeatHTaX 1217]

Longhorn's 7 MOA vs its previous 34.4. 

 

now you can trikshot wif it xDDDD

 

 

i f*@*&iing love these kinds of videos lol xD

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZTPuXNfwVc

dis one is muh favorite :D

Edited August 1, 2014 by DeatHTaX

[pilgrim* 3514]

 

It is not bad man. It just requires some readjustment to the new system.

 

you're at about 100m here without zooming, right ? Maybe I'm mistaken.

Roof of the house block on the side of the square .. 90-110m to civic building.

[gibonez 3633]

you're at about 100m here without zooming, right ? Maybe I'm mistaken.

Roof of the house block on the side of the square .. 90-110m to civic building.

 

550 meters away zoomed all the way. Those buildings in the back are actually like 790 to 800m away.

Edited August 1, 2014 by gibonez

[pilgrim* 3514]

550 meters away zoomed all the way. Those buildings in the back are actually like 790 to 800m away.

 

would be interesting to see a vid of you taking the shot, if you have hit anything since 0.47 ..

foxdie_01 can do it, as his video shows ... you notice he has an ace wrist for mouse comp, and he also takes morphine (I hear)

 

 

I include foxdie_01's video here to illustrate.

As you can see, he compensates with the mouse, but also has to 'snapshoot' at the moment his crosshair moves over target. This is surely unusual for sniper methodology ?

(good shot, for sure)

 

In this type of situation, I think "breathing control" was a useful and realistic shooting modifier in the game.

Edited August 1, 2014 by pilgrim

[LigerRider 82]

would be interesting to see a vid of you taking the shot, if you have hit anything since 0.47 ..

foxdie_01 can do it, as his video shows ... you notice he has an ace wrist for mouse comp, and he also takes morphine (I hear)

That wasn't exactly a difficult shot to be honest. It wasn't even 500m.

[pilgrim* 3514]

That wasn't exactly a difficult shot to be honest. It wasn't even 500m.

 

got any vids of your shooting, would be interesting to compare ?

I'd like to see how people with LRS deal with sway now. Some say they like it.

Edited August 1, 2014 by pilgrim

[foxdie_01 121]

for me, post patch and post morphine, theres no real difference. You still have to fight the sway and snap shoot if you're lucky enough for the cursor to move over where you want it. here's some videos from a couple of days before 0.47

 

550meter pre-patch video

 

 

420meters pre-patch double tap video (more luck and fast reactions)

 

 

edit: the important bit is after i've shot, and im no longer compensating for sway you notice its just as bad as post-patch.

Edited August 1, 2014 by foxdie_01

[LigerRider 82]

got any vids of your shooting, would be interesting to compare ?

I'd like to see how people with LRS deal with sway now. Some say they like it.

Nothing post-patch, and no sense listing all my kill ranges with no evidence. The only one I recorded was about 900m or so, with two of us lining the shot up and shooting. We were shooting from the hill North of Khelm at a fresh spawn raiding the ATC at NEAF. Was zeroed at 800m and aiming about a person height above the person. 

 

On the sway topic, the sway is way too unrealistic for me. 

 

Also, bit off topic, was the mosin nerfed? One reason I stopped using it is because people just won't go down. Sometimes it takes 3 hits for them to die? (But of course, since it's DayZ, I always drop 1 shot even if it's a leg shot... xD)

Edited August 1, 2014 by LigerRider

[pilgrim* 3514]

..//..

On the sway topic, the sway is way too unrealistic for me. 

..//..

 

LRS zoomed in:

sway at 400m standing = 7' square

sway at 400m sitting or crouched = 4' square

prone = 3' (?)

There is a slight advantage to the sitting position, over crouched

The movement of the sway crosshair is such that the point of aim is seen to move inside a rectangular box, rather than inside a circle.

This is based only on observation, not on the math generating the movement.

Because the movement describes a series of hyperbolic curves (with a period of about 1.5 sec.) it can be predicted in advance over a fraction of a second, so there is a possibility of some correction and 'rapid reaction' shooting.

The "zoom in" and the "control breathing" are the same action on the LRS. Holding the zoom for a length of time does not influence sway, but gives the "holding breath" sound effect. When zoomed out (no zoom) the sway is greater on target than zoomed in. At distances requiring the LRS I do not think snipers would often shoot without using the zoom.

I did not test 'prone' much, because a bunch of Scandinavians appeared in my rear, and I chose discretion. This shows how little I trust the LRS scope at present. I don't think it is an option except for take-your-time-all-day static sniping. Hitting a moving target is entirely chance, in game I wouldn't even consider it.

Feel free to tell me I'm wrong on any point (I may be). Also the numbers don't give a sense of "what happens" or "difficulty".

e.g. If the crosshair is moving (first approximation) inside a 6 foot box, it swings - at a steady speed but haphazardly - across a surface area of 36 square feet. A man sized target is less than 12 square feet. So for two thirds of the time, while you are placing your shot, the crosshair will be definitely OFF any part of the target. Sitting or prone you will only be absolutely off target about half the time, at 400m.  Also the crosshair does NOT return to center at any moment (you do not know where the center of your target area is located).

 

This makes sniping, at best, long winded and slow, even on stationary targets. Snapshot rections are the most important sniper attribute.

 

[lol, the conclusion:] This means that 16 year old players with their faster reactions and good hand eye coordination will snipe consistently much better that 23-30 year old gun experts with any kind of real life weapon experience.

 

xx

Edited August 1, 2014 by pilgrim

[foxdie_01 121]

I find it too frustrating to shoot the mosin crouched or standing with the full zoom. Once the round leaves the barrel the sight pictures jumps way high, and remains high while the next round is cycled, by the time you've reacquired the target a follow up shot is near on impossible as you've lost the element of surprise.

 

This was from crouched, you see what i mean: