The state of M4A1's

[Grimey Rick 3417]

The M4 is not "horribly inaccurate".. I can easily pick off players from 200+ meters with iron sights in 5 shots or less.

 

Agreed. I don't understand this misconception that the M4A1 is inaccurate. I've gotten most of my kills with an M4A1 in the first few months of the alpha.

 

You want a horribly inaccurate gun? Try killing someone at 50m with any pistol or a submachine gun. Record a video and post it here.

[Etherimp 1323]

Agreed. I don't understand this misconception that the M4A1 is inaccurate. I've gotten most of my kills with an M4A1 in the first few months of the alpha.

 

You want a horribly inaccurate gun? Try killing someone at 50m with any pistol or a submachine gun. Record a video and post it here.

 

 

The misconception is from people spamming the forums with "OMG THE DISPERSION IS REAL" without any consideration for the overall performance of the gun when you have attachments on it. 

 

I can score kills on people from 1m -> 300m with an M4 with relative ease.. >300 is difficult but can be done with a Bipod/ACOG, which as far as realism goes is pretty accurate. 

 

With Magpul attachments, the M4 actually has less dispersion than the Mosin.

[Katana67 2907]

With Magpul attachments, the M4 actually has less dispersion than the Mosin.

 

Which is the issue. Attachments arbitrarily decreasing the already arbitrary dispersion values, something which Rocket has recognized as a potential flaw. The M4A1 should, in my opinion, just perform as it does with MP furniture... just, normally. Nothing, short of removing the handguard and stock altogether (which makes it harder to shoulder and nearly impossible to hold without burning one's hands) should increase or decrease downrange dispersion values.

 

I've never thought the M4A1 was wholly inaccurate, at least not to the point where it becomes prohibitive. My issues have always been with the appropriation of arbitrary "spread" values which are used as substitutes for player skill or lackthereof.

 

Having a CTR stock or MOE handguard doesn't make your weapon more accurate downrange. I don't see any reason why it should. Now, if they want to have these things affect weapon handling on the shooting end, that's fine. That's what I'd like to see. Things like recoil management, time-to-target, mobility, reload speeds, modularity, are all areas in which attachments can benefit how the weapon handles.

Edited July 27, 2014 by Katana67

[Etherimp 1323]

Which is the issue. Attachments arbitrarily decreasing the already arbitrary dispersion values, something which Rocket has recognized as a potential flaw. The M4A1 should, in my opinion, just perform as it does with MP furniture... just, normally. Nothing, short of removing the handguard and stock altogether (which makes it harder to shoulder and nearly impossible to hold without burning one's hands) should increase or decrease downrange dispersion values.

 

I've never thought the M4A1 was wholly inaccurate, at least not to the point where it becomes prohibitive. My issues have always been with the appropriation of arbitrary "spread" values which are used as substitutes for player skill or lackthereof.

 

Having a CTR stock or MOE handguard doesn't make your weapon more accurate downrange. I don't see any reason why it should. Now, if they want to have these things affect weapon handling on the shooting end, that's fine. That's what I'd like to see. Things like recoil management, time-to-target, mobility, reload speeds, modularity, are all areas in which attachments can benefit how the weapon handles.

 

 

 

I wasn't saying that those mechanics SHOULD function that way, only that that's how they DO function... 

[Katana67 2907]

I wasn't saying that those mechanics SHOULD function that way, only that that's how they DO function... 

 

I wasn't saying you were either :D

[Westcompany 2]

I use my two month-old M4 constantly. 60 rounds mag, ACOG, Bipod, flashlight, and silencer, I'm dropping targets up to 400-450 meters with relative ease. It's versatile, but the full-auto is only silly. Semi-auto is where it's at. I'd live a burst mode rifle, one day. I find them useful. 

Now, I am a lone wolf, and I haven't entered a gunfight in... a month? Two weeks at the very least. I get around, patrolling the NWAF. Absurd how few people you meet. The two guys I met were actually nice. We RPd, too. Twas fun. 

 

But yeah, the M4 is great. Absolutely. Versatility is the key, when you have to survive. I can't afford carrying an MP5-k and a rifle, nor an AKM. It's just better, for my play-style. 

[pilgrim* 3514]

..//..

The misconception is from people spamming the forums with "OMG THE DISPERSION IS REAL" without any consideration for the overall performance of the gun when you have attachments on it. 

..//..

 

OMG don't say that dude.. shhhh.. dont say it... they'll hear you

damn, well, you said both the evil words [dispersion/attachments] now wait for the incoming it won't be long..

I tried to warn ya..

 

 

( p.s. I still got an M4 with an ACOG and 170 rounds and I don't even like the gun. I just use it to spam-spat players who come round the corner unexpectedly while I'm creeping about. It works great for that, but really I'd prefer a flamethrower. )

Edited July 27, 2014 by pilgrim

[Etherimp 1323]

OMG don't say that dude.. shhhh.. dont say it... they'll hear you

damn, well, you said both the evil words [dispersion/attachments] now wait for the incoming it won't be long..

I tried to warn ya..

 

 

( p.s. I still got an M4 with an ACOG and 170 rounds and I don't even like the gun. I just use it to spam-spat players who come round the corner unexpectedly while I'm creeping about. It works great for that, but really I'd prefer a flamethrower. )

 

 

omg.... This must be suggested to Dean. (re: flamethrower)

[pilgrim* 3514]

omg.... This must be suggested to Dean. (re: flamethrower)

 

just a short range kind of point and click thing, for us close-up players.. ya know..

like a sawed-off shotgun but ... well..flamethrower

heh

 

(a simple old 'cellars of Stalingrad' model, nothing fancy )

 

Edited July 27, 2014 by pilgrim

[hombrecz 832]

I've heard on experimental 5.56 spawns in military buildings for the ak 101 so it shouldn't be quite as rare as only spawning at crash sights which is nice.  It would have been a really dumb decision to include AK 101s and only have the ammo spawn at crashes.

 

Some would argue that including export version of Russian weapon chambered in NATO caliber is kinda dumb idea, atleast untill we have AK74M in more common and fitting 5.45x39 caliber.

 

But yeah caliber streamlining and "casuals"....

[Deathlove 2286]

Some would argue that including export version of Russian weapon chambered in NATO caliber is kinda dumb idea, atleast untill we have AK74M in more common and fitting 5.45x39 caliber.

 

But yeah caliber streamlining and "casuals"....

Well the ammo needs to be more readily available for that 101 AK no way around it really yeah it can be a hard to find weapon but dont make the NATO round spawn just at heli crashes. I dont think the ammo should spawn like rainfall but it needs to be enough to where you have a 50/50 chance of finding one in a military compound or bunker. Hell i think even some of these military vehicles should start spawning a small chance for loot like what the police cars do.

[hombrecz 832]

Well the ammo needs to be more readily available for that 101 AK no way around it really yeah it can be a hard to find weapon but dont make the NATO round spawn just at heli crashes. I dont think the ammo should spawn like rainfall but it needs to be enough to where you have a 50/50 chance of finding one in a military compound or bunker. Hell i think even some of these military vehicles should start spawning a small chance for loot like what the police cars do.

 

Well I would not expect barracks in "eastern" country to be full of NATO rounds.

Surely not in higher quantities than their eastern counterparts (7.62x39 and 5.45x39).

 

This is one of the reasons why I believe having calibers "streamlined" is bad from both realism and gameplay pov.

If we had AK74M in 5.45x39, it's ammo could/should be more plentiful than 5.56x45 for M4.

 

I was kinda happy when M4 and it's ammo was moved to helicrashes only. I kinda expect that we might get some NATO checkpoints or bases, which would spawn western stuff.

[a_ruttle 199]

Agree completely.

 

I mean, what? 'it doesnt really have a reason to be in Dayz at this point' well it does. If those army bases are non-Russian :rolleyes:

M4s aren't the sort of thing the US would leave behind in Chernarus, Chopper crash sites should be the only place to find non Russian/eastern/civilian weapons

[igor-vk 909]

M4s aren't the sort of thing the US would leave behind in Chernarus, Chopper crash sites should be the only place to find non Russian/eastern/civilian weapons

Maybe crashed Humwees, or MTVR trucks. They could be random just like heli crash sites.

[Katana67 2907]

Or the simple inventory fluff line of "Chernarus purchased several thousand M4A1s as their standard service rifle following the US peacekeeping mission."

 

Or Chernarus could have its own armories, like it already does in CR (a CZ analog).

 

Or the United States could've equipped the CDF with AR-15s after it departed Chernarus (like we did in Iraq and Afghanistan).

 

Or some unforeseen circumstance of an international effort to contain the outbreak in Chernarus.

 

Or AR-15s could've been smuggled in via an illicit arms trade (see most recent conflicts).

 

I mean, it's a god damn AR-15. Not a freakin' pile of Plutonium. There are tons and tons of ways that it is plausible, not to mention the fact that there are AR-15 manufacturers/users in Eastern Europe and/or former Soviet-controlled countries.

Edited July 27, 2014 by Katana67

[hombrecz 832]

Given the fact that majority of games has excess of NATO gear, I kinda feel that it would be a waste if DayZ SA became one of them.

I'm not saying western stuff should'nt be there at all, but make it rarer.

 

I mean what is the point in having DayZ in Chernarus, if not to follow likely setting?

Devs have the power to adjust background of Chernarus however they see fit, but let me ask you one thing.

Would changing history of Chernarus in such way, that it's loot would mirror place located in US, do the game any good?

 

Or would it be more beneficial to follow likely setting of post communist country, where Mosins, SKS and AK's should be the workhorses.

Getting some shiny Scar-H or something, should be possible but rare, making players happy once achieved and giving them long term goal as well (to be fully equipped with shiny NATO gear).

[Katana67 2907]

I mean what is the point in having DayZ in Chernarus, if not to follow likely setting?

Devs have the power to adjust background of Chernarus however they see fit, but let me ask you one thing.

Would changing history of Chernarus in such way, that it's loot would mirror place located in US, do the game any good?

 

Or would it be more beneficial to follow likely setting of post communist country, where Mosins, SKS and AK's should be the workhorses.

Getting some shiny Scar-H or something, should be possible but rare, making players happy once achieved and giving them long term goal as well (to be fully equipped with shiny NATO gear).

 

Minor tweaks to accommodate a wider variety of weapons with a wider variety of capabilities (and therefore, a wider variety of playstyles and preferences) doesn't constitute an adjustment to the history, just an addition. Moreover, it can also be argued that the history of Chernarus already provides for a ton of NATO gear to be present. So it's arguable as to whether anything would have to be added at all.

 

Nevermind the real-world precedent for NATO gear permeating into Eastern Europe and former Soviet countries.

 

I don't think anyone has ever suggested that NATO gear should be more commonplace than Warsaw Pact stuff, I have never seen anyone suggest this. So it wouldn't "mirror place located in the US," either, because it isn't all that different in the first place.

 

Chernarus is fictional, so it's not for you or me to deem what is "likely" in it. Because that is up to the people crafting the fiction and nothing else. Hence why you rarely see me suggest a weapon because it's more or less likely than another. I suggest a weapon based upon what it can offer the experience, and secondly, my own personal liking (which is pretty broad, as I like most firearms). All we can do, is say what weapons we want. It's not for us to dictate what is more "likely" in Chernarus.

 

I'm in the business of inclusion, not exclusion. I don't see any reason why any weapon should be categorically removed from consideration in fictional-ass DayZ just because it's made outside of mother Russia. Not saying this is what you're saying, and I agree that I want NATO weapons and the like to be pretty dern rare.

Edited July 27, 2014 by Katana67

[gibonez 3633]

Given the fact that majority of games has excess of NATO gear, I kinda feel that it would be a waste if DayZ SA became one of them.

I'm not saying western stuff should'nt be there at all, but make it rarer.

 

I mean what is the point in having DayZ in Chernarus, if not to follow likely setting?

Devs have the power to adjust background of Chernarus however they see fit, but let me ask you one thing.

Would changing history of Chernarus in such way, that it's loot would mirror place located in US, do the game any good?

 

Or would it be more beneficial to follow likely setting of post communist country, where Mosins, SKS and AK's should be the workhorses.

Getting some shiny Scar-H or something, should be possible but rare, making players happy once achieved and giving them long term goal as well (to be fully equipped with shiny NATO gear).

 

 

Yup Dayz has a golden opportunity to not follow the mold of 99 percent of games out in the market. They have a chance to create a game with a roster of weapons that is not only authentic to the region it is based on Eastern Europe but at the same time feature a more low tech , simplified weapon set that would do nothing but good for the game.

 

It has a chance to create a gritty, realistic survival zombie game let's just hope they don't follow he trend that countless games do and start incorporating obscure, rare , new production tactical weapons in mass.

 

Keeping the guns believable helps make the game immersive. Imagine how  S.T.A.L.K.E.R would have felt if every single gun was a western rifle and if the Ex Soviet Nation weapons were not the most common guns in the game.

 

This is why I think ignoring Western guns all together for now and instead incorporating a steady selection of not only Eastern Civilian rifles but Military ex soviet rifles is best for the game.

 

Ideally for me the m4 would be the top end gun western gun in the game a gun that offers the most modularity and if it has it real life attributes has amazing firepower.

[Katana67 2907]

Imagine how  S.T.A.L.K.E.R would have felt if every single gun was a western rifle and if the Ex Soviet Nation weapons were not the most common guns in the game.

 

Seeing as most of the weapons in STALKER were from the West (or fictional, or unrealistically depicted, or "obscure"), going to go ahead and disagree again.

 

http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/S.T.A.L.K.E.R.:_Shadow_of_Chernobyl

 

15 non-Russian firearms by my count

 

13 Soviet/Eastern firearms by my count as well

 

 

Again, again, like again... you're mixing two issues. Weapons simply being included in the game, and being rare/common.

Edited July 27, 2014 by Katana67

[gibonez 3633]

Seeing as most of the weapons in STALKER were from the West (or fictional, or unrealistically depicted, or "obscure"), going to go ahead and disagree again.

 

http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/S.T.A.L.K.E.R.:_Shadow_of_Chernobyl

 

15 non-Russian firearms by my count

 

13 Soviet/Eastern firearms by my count as well

 

 

Again, again, like again... you're mixing two issues. Weapons simply being included in the game, and being rare/common.

 

Yea I know that but the grand grand grand majority of the guns you encounter in the game are of Eastern Origin and the way the western weapons were incorporated made complete sense.

 

The only reason the Western Weapons were there was because international mercenaries had vested interest in going inside the zone.

 

Sigh I miss stalker :/

[Katana67 2907]

The only reason the Western Weapons were there was because international mercenaries had vested interest in going inside the zone.

 

A fictional reason explaining the fictional presence of an item in a fictional land, you say? How novel!

[RagedDrew 209]

m4's are now exclusive hackers weapon only.

 

You can try to kill a hacker in Berezino/Novo to get one tho

 

 

Why must you spread fake information?

[ZomboWTF 527]

Because the AK fires every shot towards the moon, and in Dayz world, H&K only ever made one magazine for the MP5, and they hid it in the temple of doom?

 

Only those brave enough to face Khali'ma will get an MP5 mag, and even then it's only the 10 round one, for a 30 round mag you have to summon, kill and teabag Cthulu

[hombrecz 832]

It has a chance to create a gritty, realistic survival zombie game let's just hope they don't follow he trend that countless games do and start incorporating obscure, rare , new production tactical weapons in mass.

 

I kinda agree with that. I also loved gritty, harsh feeling of Stalker.

It was heavily based on fiction, but I think they've managed to keep to Eastern setting even if they provided lots of NATO guns.

 

As I've said, I'm not totaly against NATO weapons, but they really should be considerably more rare, ammo as well.

Not sure I agree with you, that M4 should be the best NATO rifle, but maybe the most commom of them all?

 

Personally I would not miss if .50 cals were left out, if we did not have thermal scopes, if most powerfull sniper rifles were shooting just 7.61x51 or 7.61x54R, but that is ofcourse my personal opinion.

[ld-airgrafix 403]

I'm not against having high powered rifles in this game, but I am against so much ammo. I believe ISS had the right ammo amount, if you didn't got to their ingame store of course.