The state of M4A1's

[tootights (DayZ) 26]

I made a tour by the whole 74 helicrash sites .... (in the same server and same server restart) anything was encountered ... so there´s no choice, just sit and wait for the fix .... the most powerfull to do is vote in the ticket (http://feedback.dayzgame.com/view.php?id=13927) to improve his visibility for the Devs ..

 

I've already done so, thanks.

[pilgrim* 3514]

..//..

If I do NOT take a careful, well aimed shot, and hit my target anyway, not because I was lucky and ACCIDENTLY did it right, but because a random number decided that my impact point would be HERE instead of there, that's just as bad!

..//..

And now that he has fired, and I am still alive, even though by all rights I shouldn't be, I know where he is and can make an attempt to flank, which I couldn't have done if ballistics weren't random. The repercussions for this go beyond just that initial moment.

..//..

I sincerely hope the devs do something about this. If they don't, I doubt very much that any other new features will keep me playing.

 

This thread is about the M4A1 assault rifle, right ?

 

Assault rifle concept, based on research showing most firefights happen inside a range of 300 meters (majority inside 200m): selective fire; intermediate power cartridge; effective range of 300m.

 

I'm not going to start a discussion about dispersion there are many boring threads on that topic already. The only thing that has not been discussed is the actual numbers involved.. the maths.. Gews put up derived hit patterns. I did a little (dumb) presentation on statistical dispersion and how/why it might function in a game, and no one came back on it. Everyone was ranting on one side or another "I cant play" " "what about real gun skills" "they are not real guns" "point and click" windage" etc etc etc.. But no one was ready to work out the facts - the math, of what was supposed to be happening. It was an excuse for a good shout all round.

 

My view of the M4A1 is that you can hit stuff with it, no problem, inside the range it is intended for. AND you don't aim carefully in a firefight and the assault weapon was designed for firefights, not for gun-club ranges and not for sniping.

Grimey Rick was/is happy with it and he's a killer, for sure -that's a true recommendation, ask him - Plus a million other players.

 

Also I like the Mosin and LRS and I can hit stuff quite happily with that, a long way off. But if I say these things, I'm told how ignorant I am, or that I'm a casual player, or that I've got all my facts wrong. So I go back into the game. I have an understanding of ways a video game CAN be constructed, but some of the other folk arguing .. do not.

 

If you can't play because of how guns shoot in this game at the moment, I suggest you use an axe, or fire from closer, or find a better game. But don't say you admire the shooting skills of the player who just now wasted you, because his skills are:

He has faster reactions, he's deft in his movements, and he has more accurate hand eye coordination.

- That's because he's 15 and he can beat any 23+ player every time.. nothing to do with "real life gun-skill".. its just simply the human nervous system.

 

This thread is about the M4A1 .. there are other threads all about shooting guns in general. the argument is old.

 

If you know what you mean by "random dispersion" go ahead, lay out the figures - I'd like to see what you've got. Put the numbers on the line. But NOT HERE please. Show me what the software function does that you don't like ? But no general talk-talk any more.

Edited July 28, 2014 by pilgrim

[Etherimp 1323]

point and click then

you point at it you hit it end of story  ... 

 

 

More like...

 

Stop moving -> Get breath to stop sway -> Calculate range -> Adjust zeroing if necessary -> aim at target according to calculated range (may be above or below center-mass -> Adjust lead on target based on targets movement if any -> hold breath -> fire -> hit or miss depending upon your skill at internally, instantly, and accurately predicting the aforementioned variables.

 

So yes, weapon sway, recoil, and weapon dexterity are factors... but random dispersion is shit.

[gibonez 3633]

Then why the fuck is it on the same map? Dickhead.

 

Because the map is pretty universally loved.

 

Bohemia really nailed it when they made Chenarus and Takistan fantastic maps in every way.

 

 

More like...

 

Stop moving -> Get breath to stop sway -> Calculate range -> Adjust zeroing if necessary -> aim at target according to calculated range (may be above or below center-mass -> Adjust lead on target based on targets movement if any -> hold breath -> fire -> hit or miss depending upon your skill at internally, instantly, and accurately predicting the aforementioned variables.

 

So yes, weapon sway, recoil, and weapon dexterity are factors... but random dispersion is shit.

 

 

I would kill for it to be the following instead.

 

• Stop moving
• Lay prone
• press Shift + space to deploy bipod and toggle onto the environment stabilizing the gun.
• Use the mildots to measure the persons height in mil dots then use the following formula to get an approximate range.
• 
• Once range is estimated you use a real life piece of paper to refernce a dope chart that you printed out for the particular rifle and scope that you have in game.
•  
• You estimate the player to be 500m away so you press page up or scroll the mousewheel up until your reach 45 minutes of elevation adjustment.
• 
• You then press shift + k and an arrow shows the wind is to your back and is in the direction of the player so you do not adjust for wind on the shot.
• You aim, hold your breath and fire.

Edited July 28, 2014 by gibonez

[Etherimp 1323]

 

Because the map is pretty universally loved.

 

Bohemia really nailed it when they made Chenarus and Takistan fantastic maps in every way.

 

 

 

 

I would kill for it to be the following instead.

 

• Stop moving
• Lay prone
• press Shift + space to deploy bipod and toggle onto the environment stabilizing the gun.
• Use the mildots to measure the persons height in mil dots then use the following formula to get an approximate range.
•  
• Once range is estimated you use a real life piece of paper to refernce a dope chart that you printed out for the particular rifle and scope that you have in game.
•  
• You estimate the player to be 500m away so you press page up or scroll the mousewheel up until your reach 45 minutes of elevation adjustment.
•  
• You then press shift + k and an arrow shows the wind is to your back and is in the direction of the player so you do not adjust for wind on the shot.
• You aim, hold your breath and fire.

 

.

 

We have enough campers as it is.. We don't need to breed more by making the gun-play overly complicated. 

Edited July 28, 2014 by Etherimp

[gibonez 3633]

.

 

We have enough campers as it is.. We don't need to breed more by making the gun-play overly complicated. 

 

It would do exactly the opposite.

 

Most of the children would get frustrated and instead shoot from close range and give up on long range shooting.

[Chaingunfighter 917]

No need to get aggressive. Just because it shares a location, doesn;t mean it shares a history. Ever read a fictional book or movie? Sometimes they're set in the same places but don't all share a back story.

 

I mean how did the "Jason Bourne" climb that building in Washington when it was clearly destroyed in "independence day".

"I could tell you how Chernarus isn't Russia and I could explain the research I have conducted on my own by visiting gun shops in Russia and in Czech Republic and the massive variety of guns and ammo you can find there. I could tell you that the back story of Chernarus rides on the back of ArmA2 in which there was large amounts of NATO forces and US personnel conducting an FID mission." - Scubaman3D (Chris Torchia, Lead Artist)

 

It's practically official. Also, your argument is flawed, because Chernarus is a fictional location that exists within a fictional universe, not a real location that is much easier to describe and utilize. You're trying to say the UNSC from Halo captured the Dovahkiin from The Elder Scrolls and invaded Mordor. It's not a crossover, they exist within the same timeline save for a diversion point.

[hombrecz 832]

I just don't understand why some people think that the M4, in its current state in game, isn't WRONG!

 

Sorry Crazykage, but this has been beaten to the death already.

I agree, but it's been said so many times before :).