The Troubling Issue of Magazines

[hannibaldaplaya 1095]

Note: My stance on Ammunition rarity is that bullets should be extremely rare, to the point where twenty - thirty rounds is a godsend. This does not mean I want finding bullets to be difficult, I want them to be found in very small amounts. For example, boxed ammunition spawns should spawn around 6 - 12 rounds, and loose ammunition spawns should spawn around 1 - 5 rounds. My stance is simple, if you loot a city you should have a few bullets, probably of several different calibers, but you will not have a lot of a specific caliber. You may walk out with 6 9mm rounds, 12 .45 acp rounds, 4 7.62x51, 11 7.62x39, 6 5.56 / .223, 3 shotgun shells, and 2 .357 rounds. Though, all in all, you have a good amount of bullets, you won't be able to use all of them. This means that you'll have a variety of bullets on you after a loot run, but you'll have very few you can actually use.

 

Oh, magazines, what a problem you have unexpectedly become.

 

The Sporter .22 and various civilian pistols have shown us that weapons that require magazines in DayZ are practically inferior to their counterparts. Why?

 

Despite several civilian-style weapons using magazines, their magazines only spawn at Military establishments. This is frustrating, to say the least. A Sporter .22, considered a peashooter, is rarely ever used despite how easy it is to find the rifle and its corresponding bullets. Not due to its peashooter nature, but due to the lack of magazines.

 

The 10 round and 30 round magazine do not, or very rarely, spawn in civilian areas. Sporter .22's are left behind very, very often, due to this.

 

Well, you may say, why not just go to the military base to retrieve a magazine for your gun? Well, the problem with that is on the way or at that military base you will find a superior weapon, which you will drop the Sporter .22 for. The Sporter .22 could be a wonderful weapon for freshly spawned players, but it currently can't due to the lack of magazines. The gun could be a wonderful rifle, but it can't, due to the current magazine spawning mechanics.

 

This is the same for pistols, and any gun that has a magazine. The AKM is not that much of a problem, as the magazines spawn in the same general area of the weapon. Civilian pistols and rifles, on the other hand, do not have this redeeming factor.

 

How can this be fixed?

 

Simple.

 

Make it so that a weapon may spawn with an empty magazine. Make it so that some spawn with magazines loaded in, some don't.

 

Make it so that if a weapon spawns in residential or civilian areas, magazines for that weapon spawn there too.

 

BAM.

[Xbow 362]

I think things are fine the way they are. But an empty magazine or one with a few rounds in it in an abandoned military weapon is not a bad idea. 7.62 x 39mm Ammunition should be no more rare than it is now, after all the Former Warsaw Pack countries and Soviets made and are still making billions and billions of those rounds. In most conflict areas ammunition laying around untended is the rule and not the exception. In fact its quite a job to collect significant amounts of it and get rid of it. Which brings to mind the fact that some (25%?) of the ammunition you find should be ruined or damaged.

 

  

 

Note: As a beginning player I once found an amphibian and a 1911 pistol but no magazines. I single loaded those pistols and managed to survive until i found a few magazines for the pistols and an SKS. The rarity of 10rnd strip clips for the SKS is a pain in the ass and unrealistic those should be very common.    

 

 

 

Note: it is strange but 10 and 30 round magazines for the 10/22 are (were?) all over the place in the NW Airfield (obviously the wrong place for them to be.) 

Edited July 26, 2014 by Xbow

[randomspawn 215]

Note:

The Troubling Issue of Magazines

They are thinner than books, but take up the same amount of slots in a backpack. Also, when burnt, the fire isn't as clean due to all the colored ink in the pages. Also, I only find magazines with pictures, but I want them to...ummm....read the articles. yeah, that's it.

[Zed's Dead 67]

I think it is so absurd for guns to be found with no mags. That is very unrealistic.

[SaveMeJebus 164]

I think it would be perfect to have ammo found rather easily but only a few rounds at a time in most cases, and I do hope they keep this in mind as they proceed.  But I also think its a bit early for them to focus on loot balances yet, they need to make the loot spawning work much better and fix the mag glitching/duping issues first.

[Evaris 61]

You have my beans.

 

I await the day where I can use a Sporter 22 effectively. 

 

Also, 30 round Sporter, AK, M4, and MP5 mags taking up more space than a larger book in the inventory:  Wut?

Edited July 26, 2014 by Evaris

[LegitOldSchool 261]

The amount of time I really wanted to use a sporter rifle but had to ditch it because I find an SKS or Mosin way before I can get my hands on a sporter magazine. Totally unrealistic. Sporter magazines HAVE to spawn in residential areas or just remove them because they are utterly useless.

Edited July 26, 2014 by EchoZeero

[Katana67 2907]

Make it so that a weapon may spawn with an empty magazine. Make it so that some spawn with magazines loaded in, some don't.

 

Make it so that if a weapon spawns in residential or civilian areas, magazines for that weapon spawn there too.

 

But these are two very, very, distinct issues.

 

I agree with the second, but not the first.

 

Rarity shouldn't be dictated by any one thing, as you're positing (i.e. the ammunition). It should, in my opinion of course, be dictated by all of the things which factor into a weapon's use. Because ultimately what we're talking about here, is how the things like magazines/ammunition/weapon factor into whether or not a player can use a weapon at any given time.

 

If we make only ammunition rare, then the player will most likely have a working weapon when he/she comes across said ammunition.

 

Conversely, if we make ammunition common and magazines/weapons rare, then the player will have copious amounts of ammunition to fire off when he/she gets a weapon running.

 

So, for that reason alone, it needs to be a combination of factors dictating the rarity/likelihood of a weapon's use. Which is why I'm against magazines spawning with (at the same time, in the same place) their corresponding weapons. It makes using said weapon all the more inconsequential, when one is just given two parts of a three-part puzzle at the same time.

 

EDIT - Sporter magazines are apparently spawning in the new pub buildings in the new experimental update.

Edited July 26, 2014 by Katana67

[Red_Ensign 990]

in a world gone to crap situation, there wouldn't be this many guns just lying around.  or ammo.  not even close.  if someone dropped/left a weapon, it would ONLY be because it was empty.

 

and if there were a cache of weapons/ammo at a military base it should be locked up - you should have to find some explosives and blow the door, attracting every zombie for miles.

 

and guns should wear out if you don't do something to maintain them.

 

and I want a pony.  or at least a helper monkey.

[hannibaldaplaya 1095]

in a world gone to crap situation, there wouldn't be this many guns just lying around.  or ammo.  not even close.  if someone dropped/left a weapon, it would ONLY be because it was empty.

 

and if there were a cache of weapons/ammo at a military base it should be locked up - you should have to find some explosives and blow the door, attracting every zombie for miles.

 

and guns should wear out if you don't do something to maintain them.

 

and I want a pony.  or at least a helper monkey.

 

Did I not state that ammunition should be rare?

 

The idea is that small amounts of ammunition spawn at the rate ammo spawns now. Instead of 20 round boxes, you get 3 - 8 bullets laying around instead...

 

But these are two very, very, distinct issues.

 

I agree with the second, but not the first.

 

Rarity shouldn't be dictated by any one thing, as you're positing (i.e. the ammunition). It should, in my opinion of course, be dictated by all of the things which factor into a weapon's use. Because ultimately what we're talking about here, is how the things like magazines/ammunition/weapon factor into whether or not a player can use a weapon at any given time.

 

If we make only ammunition rare, then the player will most likely have a working weapon when he/she comes across said ammunition.

 

Conversely, if we make ammunition common and magazines/weapons rare, then the player will have copious amounts of ammunition to fire off when he/she gets a weapon running.

 

So, for that reason alone, it needs to be a combination of factors dictating the rarity/likelihood of a weapon's use. Which is why I'm against magazines spawning with (at the same time, in the same place) their corresponding weapons. It makes using said weapon all the more inconsequential, when one is just given two parts of a three-part puzzle at the same time.

 

EDIT - Sporter magazines are apparently spawning in the new pub buildings in the new experimental update.

 

There should at least be a probability weapons should spawn with empty magazines inside of them, same with certain attachments. Chances that can make a weapon spawn unique. One gun contains an empty mag, and has, say, a damaged bipod attached to it or a cracked scope, etc. A chance.

[Katana67 2907]

There should at least be a probability weapons should spawn with empty magazines inside of them, same with certain attachments. Chances that can make a weapon spawn unique. One gun contains an empty mag, and has, say, a damaged bipod attached to it or a cracked scope, etc. A chance.

 

But why? What problem does it solve? What does it add to the experience? Why, if it solves a problem, is it a preferable solution over other solutions (like just tweaking the spawn rates and offsetting the spawns of ammunition/magazines/weapons to their respective "civilian" and "military" spawns)?

 

The only problem you cite, is the fact that "civilian" weapons do not spawn in the same types of buildings as their "civilian" magazines. Which, I agree, is a problem. But that doesn't therefore, somehow (as they're two distinct issues) make the spawning of magazines/attachments beside and at the same time as their respective weapons, a problem.

 

A small, talking 10% (that's what I voted for) chance of spawning an empty magazine with a weapon would be acceptable to me. But not attachments, ever, in any condition.

 

This is a matter, ironically (given the folks that I've seen be proponents of this, like Gibonez and Hombre), of streamlining the actual act of getting your weapon up and running. Which is far, far, far more significant than just streamlining the number of ammunition types available to the player. This actually has a tangible effect (versus an ambient effect) on how the player gears.

 

I don't know where you stand on the "ammunition" issue so it's not in reference to you that I say this, and it's not strictly relevant, but it's just odd to me how some of the most staunch detractors of streamlining ammunition are all in-favor of streamlining the actual act of getting your weapon up and running.

 

With the magazine/ammunition/weapon divide, which is a change from the mod's combination of ammunition and magazine, outfitting oneself with a firearm is a 1+1+1=3 action. There are three variables or requirements which have to be met in order for you to get your weapon fully functional.

 

What is being proposed as of late (linking the spawns of magazines and/or attachments to weapons, to any degree) just sends us closer to the way it was in the mod. It's a 2+1=3 action that way. There are two variables/requirements, instead of three.

 

If we throw attachments in, it's a 1+1+1+1=4 situation. However, if we combine attachments... weapons... and magazines, potentially, into one spawn... it becomes a 3+1=4 situation, which is even worse (as you're condensing three distinct requirements into one).

 

As an example, it would be like... if you killed a cow in-game... if it dropped a box of matches and a stack of wood, in addition to raw meat... at the same time.

Edited July 26, 2014 by Katana67

[newberryes 40]

 

Make it so that a weapon may spawn with an empty magazine. Make it so that some spawn with magazines loaded in, some don't.

 

Make it so that if a weapon spawns in residential or civilian areas, magazines for that weapon spawn there too.

 

 

This.

[EvilTigerAce 131]

I think things are fine the way they are. But an empty magazine or one with a few rounds in it in an abandoned military weapon is not a bad idea. 7.62 x 39mm Ammunition should be no more rare than it is now, after all the Former Warsaw Pack countries and Soviets made and are still making billions and billions of those rounds. In most conflict areas ammunition laying around untended is the rule and not the exception. In fact its quite a job to collect significant amounts of it and get rid of it. Which brings to mind the fact that some (25%?) of the ammunition you find should be ruined or damaged.

 

  

 

Note: As a beginning player I once found an amphibian and a 1911 pistol but no magazines. I single loaded those pistols and managed to survive until i found a few magazines for the pistols and an SKS. The rarity of 10rnd strip clips for the SKS is a pain in the ass and unrealistic those should be very common.    

 

 

 

Note: it is strange but 10 and 30 round magazines for the 10/22 are (were?) all over the place in the NW Airfield (obviously the wrong place for them to be.) 

 

Your sig..

 

SAME FEELING

[hannibaldaplaya 1095]

But why? What problem does it solve? What does it add to the experience? Why, if it solves a problem, is it a preferable solution over other solutions (like just tweaking the spawn rates and offsetting the spawns of ammunition/magazines/weapons to their respective "civilian" and "military" spawns)?

 

The only problem you cite, is the fact that "civilian" weapons do not spawn in the same types of buildings as their "civilian" magazines. Which, I agree, is a problem. But that doesn't therefore, somehow (as they're two distinct issues) make the spawning of magazines/attachments beside and at the same time as their respective weapons, a problem.

 

A small, talking 10% (that's what I voted for) chance of spawning an empty magazine with a weapon would be acceptable to me. But not attachments, ever, in any condition.

 

This is a matter, ironically (given the folks that I've seen be proponents of this, like Gibonez and Hombre), of streamlining the actual act of getting your weapon up and running. Which is far, far, far more significant than just streamlining the number of ammunition types available to the player. This actually has a tangible effect (versus an ambient effect) on how the player gears.

 

I don't know where you stand on the "ammunition" issue so it's not in reference to you that I say this, and it's not strictly relevant, but it's just odd to me how some of the most staunch detractors of streamlining ammunition are all in-favor of streamlining the actual act of getting your weapon up and running.

 

With the magazine/ammunition/weapon divide, which is a change from the mod's combination of ammunition and magazine, outfitting oneself with a firearm is a 1+1+1=3 action. There are three variables or requirements which have to be met in order for you to get your weapon fully functional.

 

What is being proposed as of late (linking the spawns of magazines and/or attachments to weapons, to any degree) just sends us closer to the way it was in the mod. It's a 2+1=3 action that way. There are two variables/requirements, instead of three.

 

If we throw attachments in, it's a 1+1+1+1=4 situation. However, if we combine attachments... weapons... and magazines, potentially, into one spawn... it becomes a 3+1=4 situation, which is even worse (as you're condensing three distinct requirements into one).

 

As an example, it would be like... if you killed a cow in-game... if it dropped a box of matches and a stack of wood, in addition to raw meat... at the same time.

 

Guns should be able to spawn with empty magazines or attachments on them. Why?

 

This is implying that every single gun left laying around Chernarus is the same exact cookie cutter weapon, no magazine, no nothing. Why is a small probability that a weapon will spawn, empty magazine inside, silencer perhaps on or some other attachment such a bad idea in your eyes?

 

In a real apocalypse, if you're throwing your gun away so that you can, say, run, or if you are abandoning your home and your guns, you most likely still have your scopes on your rifles, and your magazines nearby if not in those guns. Perhaps you do not, but if you have a scope on your rifle or a magazine for your gun, just because you abandoned it in a hurry does not mean that magazine or scope magically disappeared. Plus, you keep your scope on your rifle because you have to sight your damn scope in. Why take it off when it took you some time at the range to get it right?

 

I'm calling for a chance, a percentage probable chance that guns spawn in a unique, different way to make things diverse.

 

You seem to want an experience where the game is a great big scavenger hunt, making you spend hours upon hours for a 'geared out' weapon. I'd love to make it a scavenger hunt for a 'geared out' weapon, but if you find a rifle or pistol that uses a magazine, it should damn well have a chance of spawning with or near an empty magazine. Why? So that it is functional, and actually used by players. No one is going to use the Sporter .22 until the magazines spawn near it and in the same area it spawns.

 

Guns should usually be functional when you find them. You should have to conserve your ammunition, by making bullets scarce. Guns should be in poor condition, forcing you to spend time fixing and cleaning them or else face jams. You shouldn't have to travel miles for a chance at a magazine at a military base for a rifle that only spawns in residential areas.

[Frothyboot18 46]

This is what im talking about! A few months ago you wanted fewer bullets... Now that you cant find a bullet for your gun you want it changed. The problem before was that people server hopped to gear up thats why bullets were rampant. You have to take into account the amount of guns and different kind of bullets in game, the only solution to this is have some guns spawn with a magazine or two, with half empty mags or some loose rounds.

[OrLoK 16182]

Hello there

 

I did vote based on what we have "now" but remember the loot tables are not set in stone and are bound to drastically change as we proceed through development so I wouldn't concern yoursleves too greatly.

 

Nothing wrong with discussing it though!

 

Rgds

 

LoK

[Katana67 2907]

This is implying that every single gun left laying around Chernarus is the same exact cookie cutter weapon, no magazine, no nothing. Why is a small probability that a weapon will spawn, empty magazine inside, silencer perhaps on or some other attachment such a bad idea in your eyes?

 

In a real apocalypse, if you're throwing your gun away so that you can, say, run, or if you are abandoning your home and your guns, you most likely still have your scopes on your rifles, and your magazines nearby if not in those guns. Perhaps you do not, but if you have a scope on your rifle or a magazine for your gun, just because you abandoned it in a hurry does not mean that magazine or scope magically disappeared. Plus, you keep your scope on your rifle because you have to sight your damn scope in. Why take it off when it took you some time at the range to get it right?

 

I'm calling for a chance, a percentage probable chance that guns spawn in a unique, different way to make things diverse.

 

You seem to want an experience where the game is a great big scavenger hunt, making you spend hours upon hours for a 'geared out' weapon. I'd love to make it a scavenger hunt for a 'geared out' weapon, but if you find a rifle or pistol that uses a magazine, it should damn well have a chance of spawning with or near an empty magazine. Why? So that it is functional, and actually used by players. No one is going to use the Sporter .22 until the magazines spawn near it and in the same area it spawns.

 

Guns should usually be functional when you find them. You should have to conserve your ammunition, by making bullets scarce. Guns should be in poor condition, forcing you to spend time fixing and cleaning them or else face jams. You shouldn't have to travel miles for a chance at a magazine at a military base for a rifle that only spawns in residential areas.

 

Your argument basically resides on aestheticism and "realism," not anything pragmatic in terms of how to make gameplay better/worse.

 

I already explained why it's a bad idea in my eyes, in the post you quoted. It simplifies gameplay, in that you have to do less to get your weapon functioning properly. Which is a bad idea in my opinion.

 

Weapons being fully functional when you find them in the mod, was a massive... massive... flaw (highlighted by a lot of people, including the developers, hence why they've split magazines/ammunition/weapons).

 

It simplifies the experience when you have everything spawning together at once. Where did I say it should take tedious hours to get your weapon up and running? No, I've never said this. I've said that, in having to find three different items (rather than just having them handed to you all at once with any semblance of frequency) you're both decreasing the likelihood that a given player will have a fully-functional weapon at any given time, and, you're encouraging the journeys (and player mobility) which make this game great.

 

Again, you seem to be blurring two distinct issues, which you haven't fully realized are distinct. Which is evidenced in your closing statement.

 

1. The fact that "civilian" magazine spawns are misallocated to "military" buildings

 

2. That magazines should be spawning alongside, in the same place, at the same time, as their weapon counterparts

 

These are two different issues. If one merely makes "civilian" magazines spawn at "civilian" buildings, then your grievance (about tedium in having to "travel miles for a chance at a military base for a rifle that only spawns in residential areas") doesn't exist. Because you simply don't have to do that. "Civilian" weapons would spawn in the same types of buildings as "civilian" magazines. 

Edited July 26, 2014 by Katana67

[MikeReverb 49]

Your argument basically resides on aestheticism and "realism," not anything pragmatic in terms of how to make gameplay better/worse.

 

I already explained why it's a bad idea in my eyes, in the post you quoted. It simplifies gameplay, in that you have to do less to get your weapon functioning properly. Which is a bad idea in my opinion.

 

Weapons being fully functional when you find them in the mod, was a massive... massive... flaw (highlighted by a lot of people, including the developers, hence why they've split magazines/ammunition/weapons).

 

It simplifies the experience when you have everything spawning together at once. Where did I say it should take tedious hours to get your weapon up and running? No, I've never said this. I've said that, in having to find three different items (rather than just having them handed to you all at once with any semblance of frequency) you're both decreasing the likelihood that a given player will have a fully-functional weapon at any given time, and, you're encouraging the journeys (and player mobility) which make this game great.

 

Again, you seem to be blurring two distinct issues, which you haven't fully realized are distinct. Which is evidenced in your closing statement.

 

1. The fact that "civilian" magazine spawns are misallocated to "military" buildings

 

2. That magazines should be spawning alongside, in the same place, at the same time, as their weapon counterparts

 

These are two different issues. If one merely makes "civilian" magazines spawn at "civilian" buildings, then your grievance (about tedium in having to "travel miles for a chance at a military base for a rifle that only spawns in residential areas") doesn't exist. Because you simply don't have to do that. "Civilian" weapons would spawn in the same types of buildings as "civilian" magazines. 

Hmm, I can personally understand why you would be against magazines spawning with weapons (rather than just a chance in the general vicinity) based on realism, but this is a large part of the appeal of DayZ for many people.

 

I've always found it odd that I wouldn't find at least one weapon with a magazine already loaded in it given the attention to detail given to other areas of the game to create a sense of realism.

 

The problem, as you laid out, is that by trying to make it more realistic, you also increase the chances of someone getting a fully functioning weapon (since all they'll need is ammo) and they won't need to go anywhere else, so less traveling.

 

But is even a minuscule chance of getting a magazine really that bad? You're able to find weapons with certain attachments/mods attached to them right now, which one can argue is similar (I'm thinking specifically of the AKM which I've found with stocks attached and sometimes not). If you can control the likelihood of finding a magazine and a weapon, then why not do so instead of avoiding the whole aspect to begin with? I see it as a nice surprise, one of those "woah, luckyy!" moments like finding a can opener when you're about to starve.

 

In that last case, I suppose it's not just about realism but about randomness as well, which is also a staple of DayZ.

Edited July 26, 2014 by MikeReverb

[Katana67 2907]

But is even a minuscule chance of getting a magazine really that bad?

 

In that last case, I suppose it's not just about realism but about randomness as well, which is also a staple of DayZ.

 

Nope, hence why I'd be alright with it being a very, very, seldom occurrence (hence why I voted for the 10% option).

 

And it's not about either, in my opinion. It's about adding variety and depth to gameplay, which wouldn't be the case if you have to do less to get the same result (i.e. a functioning weapon). Looking at it from a purely "realistic" or "various" angle doesn't cut it, you have to consider how this would affect how one gears. And it would make the process easier, and therefore more inconsequential, so nobody really has to work for their kitted-out, mag-spawned, M4A1 that they then turn toward the coast with extreme prejudice.

[hannibaldaplaya 1095]

Nope, hence why I'd be alright with it being a very, very, seldom occurrence (hence why I voted for the 10% option).

 

And it's not about either, in my opinion. It's about adding variety and depth to gameplay, which wouldn't be the case if you have to do less to get the same result (i.e. a functioning weapon). Looking at it from a purely "realistic" or "various" angle doesn't cut it, you have to consider how this would affect how one gears. And it would make the process easier, and therefore more inconsequential, so nobody really has to work for their kitted-out, mag-spawned, M4A1 that they then turn toward the coast with extreme prejudice.

 

You seem to think that we want the game to make it easier for us to gear up.

 

No.

 

I want the game to make it so that I don't have a full 75 round fucking drum magazine along with a kitted out AKM two hours into the game.

 

I just do not want interesting weapons to be made useless by their inability to ever spawn with an empty magazine.

 

You are twisting my words. I do not want this game to be, grab a gun, already loaded, go to coast and kill everybody. I want this game to be a harsh, unforgiving simulation of survival, but I don't want to have to turn down every weapon that requires a magazine because I won't be able to find that magazine.

 

My point is that finding a gun should be a good thing, not an, 'aw it requires a mag so it is worthless.' A solution to this is to make empty magazines spawn in the same areas as their corresponding guns and add a chance (Not as low as 10%, that's ridiculous) that the weapon will spawn with an empty magazine.

 

Not everything has to be broken into little pieces. This makes things feel tedious. In the current state of the game where nature is not threatening, traveling involves infinite running, and most player interaction results in a huge gunfight involving tons of rounds, searching for anything specific such as a Sporter mag becomes an unfun and unrewarding burden.

[Katana67 2907]

You seem to think that we want the game to make it easier for us to gear up.

 

No.

 

I want the game to make it so that I don't have a full 75 round fucking drum magazine along with a kitted out AKM two hours into the game.

 

I just do not want interesting weapons to be made useless by their inability to ever spawn with an empty magazine.

 

You are twisting my words. I do not want this game to be, grab a gun, already loaded, go to coast and kill everybody. I want this game to be a harsh, unforgiving simulation of survival, but I don't want to have to turn down every weapon that requires a magazine because I won't be able to find that magazine.

 

My point is that finding a gun should be a good thing, not an, 'aw it requires a mag so it is worthless.' A solution to this is to make empty magazines spawn in the same areas as their corresponding guns and add a chance (Not as low as 10%, that's ridiculous) that the weapon will spawn with an empty magazine.

 

Not everything has to be broken into little pieces. This makes things feel tedious. In the current state of the game where nature is not threatening, traveling involves infinite running, and most player interaction results in a huge gunfight involving tons of rounds, searching for anything specific such as a Sporter mag becomes an unfun and unrewarding burden.

 

I mean, yes, I do. Because that is a consequence of making more things (i.e. magazines and attachments) required to utilize a weapon, spawn at the same time in the same place.

 

I'm not twisting your words, I'm analyzing the consequences of what you're proposing.

 

How would having magazines and attachments spawning with weapons, make it less likely that you would find a "kitted out AKM two hours into the game"? It wouldn't, because you'd just... stumble... across a kitted AKM with a mag. Vice having to work for that capability in gradually piecing together a weapon.

 

Again, make the magazine rarity proportional to that of the weapon. It doesn't have anything to do with the fact that magazines aren't spawning alongside their weapons. It has everything to do with two simple issues - that "civilian" magazines spawn in "military" locales, and, that the magazine rarity and weapon rarity do not correspond to one another by virtue of the loot not having been balanced.

 

You don't need to have magazines spawning next to weapons to have "low-tier" weapons be useful. You can just alter the parameters of rarity respective to the capabilities of a given weapon.

 

Your grievance is that some weapons go un-utilized simply because their magazines are hard to find. So, make their magazines not that hard to find. It doesn't have to be "make them spawn together." They can just be more common, and spawning in areas which also can spawn their corresponding weapons.

Edited July 26, 2014 by Katana67

[Evaris 61]

I mean, yes, I do. Because that is a consequence of making more things (i.e. magazines and attachments) required to utilize a weapon, spawn at the same time in the same place.

 

I'm not twisting your words, I'm analyzing the consequences of what you're proposing.

 

How would having magazines and attachments spawning with weapons, make it less likely that you would find a "kitted out AKM two hours into the game"? It wouldn't, because you'd just... stumble... across a kitted AKM with a mag. Vice having to work for that capability in gradually piecing together a weapon.

 

Again, make the magazine rarity proportional to that of the weapon. It doesn't have anything to do with the fact that magazines aren't spawning alongside their weapons. It has everything to do with two simple issues - that "civilian" magazines spawn in "military" locales, and, that the magazine rarity and weapon rarity do not correspond to one another by virtue of the loot not having been balanced.

 

You don't need to have magazines spawning next to weapons to have "low-tier" weapons be useful. You can just alter the parameters of rarity respective to the capabilities of a given weapon.

 

Your grievance is that some weapons go un-utilized simply because their magazines are hard to find. So, make their magazines not that hard to find. It doesn't have to be "make them spawn together." They can just be more common, and spawning in areas which also can spawn their corresponding weapons.

I understand your point of view but...

 

Honestly, I'd prefer things to be realistic.  That said, whether something is kitted out should depend on the weapon - and to my knowledge, civilian weapons tend to be more often kitted out than military weapons, so... yeah.

 

For me, Realism > the grind

[Katana67 2907]

I understand your point of view but...

 

Honestly, I'd prefer things to be realistic.  That said, whether something is kitted out should depend on the weapon - and to my knowledge, civilian weapons tend to be more often kitted out than military weapons, so... yeah.

 

For me, Realism > the grind

 

Even for it to be "realistic," it's also highly situational. I've seen weapons stored bone-stock in both civilian and military armories. I've seen weapons stored kitted in both civilian and military armories. I've seen people store their magazines separately from their weapons. What I haven't seen, is how people would behave in a zombie apocalypse. Who's to say that someone lost all their magazines, or could only take a weapon? I mean, it's easy to say "X is realistic" but in order for it to be "realistic" that item has to have a reason for being there, in the form that it's in.

 

Realism just "because it's realistic" isn't a valid reason for me to advocate for something, and has been rejected categorically by the developers as a method of advocacy. Now, the argument can be made that certain "realistic" inclusions benefit gameplay. But this isn't one of them. This is an area in which the two conflict. It happens less often than you think, as many "realistic" suggestions can be argued to benefit gameplay. But, for one, people seldom do that in the first place. They just say "it's realistic, devs, do it," and that's pretty much all that happens. And second, they don't even realize that by approaching something from a pragmatic view, you're inevitably making said "realistic" suggestion worthwhile in terms of gameplay.

 

And the term "grind" implies that it's hard, tedious, and monotonous. Simply because I want these items spawning separately, doesn't mean that the process is therefore difficult or monotonous. So, no, it doesn't have to be a "grind."

Edited July 26, 2014 by Katana67

[gibonez 3633]

Not having guns spawn with empty magazines is nearly the same as spawning a revolver without a cylinder or a bolt rifle without a bolt.

 

For a weapon to function to the best of its ability it needs to have all of its parts and be a complete system for a magazine fed weapon that indeed means a magazine.

 

At the very least all magazine fed weapons should spawn in with 1 empty magazine that should be like bare minimum. 

[rybec 339]

Not having guns spawn with empty magazines is nearly the same as spawning a revolver without a cylinder or a bolt rifle without a bolt.

 

For a weapon to function to the best of its ability it needs to have all of its parts and be a complete system for a magazine fed weapon that indeed means a magazine.

 

At the very least all magazine fed weapons should spawn in with 1 empty magazine that should be like bare minimum. 

It would be nice, and the only reason you'd see one without a magazine at that point would be if someone took it and left before you got there.