A new approach to the bandits and heros situation

[bobotype3334 160]

Bandits should NOT be punished directly.
Players shooting weapons at all, on the other hand, should attract zombies to their position in a 1 km diameter area.
Guns are bloody loud, I lived out on a farm and when people went hunting I could hear it quite well a kilometre away.

Just change the properties of gun sound range and zombie hearing range and suddenly you'll be as deterred from shooting someone as if you were in the middle of a busy city, sort of like killing someone in GTA and the police coming for you, except instead of police you have 20 or so tough zombies, running at you from every direction at top speed. That should be the punishment for banditry or even just firing a shot.

And also make it that once a zombie has heard a gunshot, they don't change their pathing for about a minute to head towards it unless a human gets in their LoS, so two bandits can't just confuse zombies with continuous shooting with neither of them being hunted.

If because of this sound restriction you try to KoS with melee weapons, and someone doesn't want to fight you, they can just outrun you because you have your melee equipped. And so this is how we fix KoS. It will still be possible, but there will be a punishment, just like OP is suggesting bandits should be punished in a "bad luck" way [which is unrealistic].

Thus, we don't need a karma system, just more difficult survival to encourage players to team up, and zombies as "police".

Edited November 28, 2014 by bobotype3334

[pilgrim* 3514]

Dont get silly...

We dont use the Karma term with its exact spiritual meaning.. I dont know how long you are into gaming and stuff but karma systems exist in games for 10 years or so,

Its a point system basically that with its help you can determine certain gameplay patterns. and with that info a server for example good give/take to a specified player some attributes.

And I dont know why you find this logic stupid or irrelevant with the game. 

 

I've played plenty of games starting out with 'Elite' (the original).

You will remember that? or maybe you have only started playing recently. Either way you will have noticed how games have the same Speedbars, Health Bars, Fitness bars, Points systems, in them... so each game comes down to what you have to do to fill up that Bar, or what do you do (how many times) to Level, or to get those Points.. but even with the different high quality graphics, those games have to be similar, and they are easy to learn - you just have to learn the speedbars, Stamina, Health, Points... then you can Win the Game.

And because the games studios want to sell plenty of games, they make sure the games are just difficult enough that everybody can Win. OK ?  Or maybe Everybody can Get 85-90%.. with just enough difficulty at the end (or in one Level)  to keep the real fans playing.

 

Is there is any game that you yourself cant win? Tell me what game is that? Is there any game on the market with Speedbars and Points etc.. that is just too tough for you and you had to give up? Of course there is NOT.

 

There is only one game no one can win..

 

i guess we live in hard times and people like the security of seeing the Points stack up, seeing the little Bars fill up.. so they feel safe and know where they are and how they are progressing. Me too - in the Mod I liked to know how many Zombies I'd killed... but if I can count, I can know that without seeing it written down on the screen for me.. what does the number written on the screen prove? - that I can't keep count yourself ?

Or do you need the screenshot of how many points you got, to show your friends you are a better player than them? Many games do that, DayZ does not do any of that.

 

I laughed at the fun ideas on this thread, not at the players - I think "being so evil that you fall off roofs a lot" is a great idea... it made me feel cheerful about life.. but it will not be in the game. Or maybe it happens already ? Perhaps there are bad-karma players already ?

 

As soon as you have a REASON for doing something.. then all players must do the same thing, or they will be at a disadvantage (for instance, they will fall off roofs really all the time).. There are plenty of levels games and Points games and "You Have Won" games around already, and this Christmas there will be a whole bunch more. I'll play some myself. You should try them too. I LIKE some of those safe games where if you get it wrong (not enough points) you can replay the level.

 

One of the things that attracts me to DayZ is - its not like that. You can't win. You don't even need to be fully geared, you don't even need to have a Bible in your backpack.... you do what you want.. No one tells you how well you did today - you CAN NOT win this game..That's great.. But its also GREAT that many different players are involved, and each of them has a different idea of HOW to play. We shouldn't take that away from any of them.

 

Join the game, dude - bring your ideas right into the game with you.. PLAY the way you feel.. the points will be always there in your head.

Edited November 28, 2014 by pilgrim

[Caboose187 (DayZ) 3036]

I've played plenty of games starting out with 'Elite' (the original).

You will remember that? or maybe you have only started playing recently. Either way you will have noticed how games have the same Speedbars, Health Bars, Fitness bars, Points systems, in them... so each game comes down to what you have to do to fill up that Bar, or what do you do (how many times) to Level, or to get those Points.. but even with the different high quality graphics, those games have to be similar, and they are easy to learn - you just have to learn the speedbars, Stamina, Health, Points... then you can Win the Game.

And because the games studios want to sell plenty of games, they make sure the games are just difficult enough that everybody can Win. OK ?  Or maybe Everybody can Get 85-90%.. with just enough difficulty at the end (or in one Level)  to keep the real fans playing.

 

Is there is any game that you yourself cant win? Tell me what game is that? Is there any game on the market with Speedbars and Points etc.. that is just too tough for you and you had to give up? Of course there is NOT.

 

There is only one game no one can win..

 

i guess we live in hard times and people like the security of seeing the Points stack up, seeing the little Bars fill up.. so they feel safe and know where they are and how they are progressing. Me too - in the Mod I liked to know how many Zombies I'd killed... but if I can count, I can know that without seeing it written down on the screen for me.. what does the number written on the screen prove? - that I can't keep count yourself ?

Or do you need the screenshot of how many points you got, to show your friends you are a better player than them? Many games do that, DayZ does not do any of that.

 

I laughed at the fun ideas on this thread, not at the players - I think "being so evil that you fall off roofs a lot" is a great idea... it made me feel cheerful about life.. but it will not be in the game. Or maybe it happens already ? Perhaps there are bad-karma players already ?

 

As soon as you have a REASON for doing something.. then all players must do the same thing, or they will be at a disadvantage (for instance, they will fall off roofs really all the time).. There are plenty of levels games and Points games and "You Have Won" games around already, and this Christmas there will be a whole bunch more. I'll play some myself. You should try them too. I LIKE some of those safe games where if you get it wrong (not enough points) you can replay the level.

 

One of the things that attracts me to DayZ is - its not like that. You can't win. You don't even need to be fully geared, you don't even need to have a Bible in your backpack.... you do what you want.. No one tells you how well you did today - you CAN NOT win this game..That's great.. But its also GREAT that many different players are involved, and each of them has a different idea of HOW to play. We shouldn't take that away from any of them.

 

Join the game, dude - bring your ideas right into the game with you.. PLAY the way you feel.. the points will be always there in your head.

You just nailed the problem on the head with that last line.  People can't boast and brag with the "points being in their head".  People need stats and points to show accomplishments which DayZ is not about and I am very thankful for that.

[VermillionX 78]

Well, A Karma-esque system would be nice; better if there was no way to visibly keep track of Karma points except in your head.

A Karma system I can envision for the Standalone would retain the original ranks: Bandit, Survivor and Hero. Hero and Bandit each having only a small visible change once achieved and an improvement in a minor stat.

 

Bandits: Upon reaching the Bandit state, the only visible changes would be small scars on their face (Eyebrow, cheek primarily) and exposed skin (Arms and legs). Unless you're face-to-face with one, being able to identify a bandit as a bandit would be considerably difficult at range. Nearly impossible with face gear.

Advantages of the Bandit status being a slight improvement in Night Vision, a small resistance to Cold temperatures and a slower cooling rate while hot.

Standard ways of acquiring negative karma coming from killing Survivors or Heroes, Force-feeding Disinfectant Spray and eating human meat.

 

Heroes: Upon reaching Hero state, the only visible changes would be military tattoos on the player's arm and neck. Like the bandits, it's hard to spot unless you're face-to-face with them. Somewhat easier since they're more likely to approach you.

Advantages of the Hero status being an increased recovery rate while Energized/Hydrated, slightly slower bleed rate, a small resistance to Hot temperatures and heat exhaustion with a greater susceptibility to cold.

Standard ways of acquiring positive karma coming from applying appropriate medical aid to other survivors, killing bandits and removing handcuffs.

 

In this, the advantages and disadvantages of Hero and Bandit are roughly equal. Bandit being easier to achieve, but not quite as useful while fully geared due to a susceptibility to overheating. While the Hero will have a harder time earlier on without warm gear, during rainstorms or at night.

When killed, a player's karma is reduced to just below their original status (so like... 5 karma points below Hero/Bandit) or reset to 0 if they were a survivor without a leaning much in either direction.

Edited November 28, 2014 by VermillionX

[Caboose187 (DayZ) 3036]

Well, A Karma-esque system would be nice; better if there was no way to visibly keep track of Karma points except in your head.

A Karma system I can envision for the Standalone would retain the original ranks: Bandit, Survivor and Hero. Hero and Bandit each having only a small visible change once achieved and an improvement in a minor stat.

 

Bandits: Upon reaching the Bandit state, the only visible changes would be small scars on their face (Eyebrow, cheek primarily) and exposed skin (Arms and legs). Unless you're face-to-face with one, being able to identify a bandit as a bandit would be considerably difficult at range. Nearly impossible with face gear.

Advantages of the Bandit status being a slight improvement in Night Vision, a small resistance to Cold temperatures and a slower cooling rate while hot.

Standard ways of acquiring negative karma coming from killing Survivors or Heroes, Force-feeding Disinfectant Spray and eating human meat.

 

Heroes: Upon reaching Hero state, the only visible changes would be military tattoos on the player's arm and neck. Like the bandits, it's hard to spot unless you're face-to-face with them. Somewhat easier since they're more likely to approach you.

Advantages of the Hero status being an increased recovery rate while Energized/Hydrated, slightly slower bleed rate, a small resistance to Hot temperatures and heat exhaustion with a greater susceptibility to cold.

Standard ways of acquiring positive karma coming from applying appropriate medical aid to other survivors, killing bandits and removing handcuffs.

 

In this, the advantages and disadvantages of Hero and Bandit are roughly equal. Bandit being easier to achieve, but not quite as useful while fully geared due to a susceptibility to overheating. While the Hero will have a harder time earlier on without warm gear, during rainstorms or at night.

When killed, a player's karma is reduced to just below their original status (so like... 5 karma points below Hero/Bandit) or reset to 0 if they were a survivor without a leaning much in either direction.

I personally do not like your ideas just for the simple fact that it steps out of the bounds of realism.  Tattoos magically appearing?  Giving bandits the ability to see better at night?  

[VermillionX 78]

It's better than people just falling off roofs and being immune to all sicknesses. Better yet, it's better than the DayZ mod magically generating scarves, full clothing and ghillie suits.

[General Zod 1118]

I've played plenty of games starting out with 'Elite' (the original).

You will remember that? or maybe you have only started playing recently. Either way you will have noticed how games have the same Speedbars, Health Bars, Fitness bars, Points systems, in them... so each game comes down to what you have to do to fill up that Bar, or what do you do (how many times) to Level, or to get those Points.. but even with the different high quality graphics, those games have to be similar, and they are easy to learn - you just have to learn the speedbars, Stamina, Health, Points... then you can Win the Game.

And because the games studios want to sell plenty of games, they make sure the games are just difficult enough that everybody can Win. OK ?  Or maybe Everybody can Get 85-90%.. with just enough difficulty at the end (or in one Level)  to keep the real fans playing.

 

Is there is any game that you yourself cant win? Tell me what game is that? Is there any game on the market with Speedbars and Points etc.. that is just too tough for you and you had to give up? Of course there is NOT.

 

There is only one game no one can win..

 

i guess we live in hard times and people like the security of seeing the Points stack up, seeing the little Bars fill up.. so they feel safe and know where they are and how they are progressing. Me too - in the Mod I liked to know how many Zombies I'd killed... but if I can count, I can know that without seeing it written down on the screen for me.. what does the number written on the screen prove? - that I can't keep count yourself ?

Or do you need the screenshot of how many points you got, to show your friends you are a better player than them? Many games do that, DayZ does not do any of that.

 

I laughed at the fun ideas on this thread, not at the players - I think "being so evil that you fall off roofs a lot" is a great idea... it made me feel cheerful about life.. but it will not be in the game. Or maybe it happens already ? Perhaps there are bad-karma players already ?

 

As soon as you have a REASON for doing something.. then all players must do the same thing, or they will be at a disadvantage (for instance, they will fall off roofs really all the time).. There are plenty of levels games and Points games and "You Have Won" games around already, and this Christmas there will be a whole bunch more. I'll play some myself. You should try them too. I LIKE some of those safe games where if you get it wrong (not enough points) you can replay the level.

 

One of the things that attracts me to DayZ is - its not like that. You can't win. You don't even need to be fully geared, you don't even need to have a Bible in your backpack.... you do what you want.. No one tells you how well you did today - you CAN NOT win this game..That's great.. But its also GREAT that many different players are involved, and each of them has a different idea of HOW to play. We shouldn't take that away from any of them.

 

Join the game, dude - bring your ideas right into the game with you.. PLAY the way you feel.. the points will be always there in your head.

[papajo 13]

 

I've played plenty of games starting out with 'Elite' (the original).

You will remember that? or maybe you have only started playing recently. Either way you will have noticed how games have the same Speedbars, Health Bars, Fitness bars, Points systems, in them... so each game comes down to what you have to do to fill up that Bar, or what do you do (how many times) to Level, or to get those Points.. but even with the different high quality graphics, those games have to be similar, and they are easy to learn - you just have to learn the speedbars, Stamina, Health, Points... then you can Win the Game.

And because the games studios want to sell plenty of games, they make sure the games are just difficult enough that everybody can Win. OK ?  Or maybe Everybody can Get 85-90%.. with just enough difficulty at the end (or in one Level)  to keep the real fans playing.

 

Is there is any game that you yourself cant win? Tell me what game is that? Is there any game on the market with Speedbars and Points etc.. that is just too tough for you and you had to give up? Of course there is NOT.

 

There is only one game no one can win..

 

i guess we live in hard times and people like the security of seeing the Points stack up, seeing the little Bars fill up.. so they feel safe and know where they are and how they are progressing. Me too - in the Mod I liked to know how many Zombies I'd killed... but if I can count, I can know that without seeing it written down on the screen for me.. what does the number written on the screen prove? - that I can't keep count yourself ?

Or do you need the screenshot of how many points you got, to show your friends you are a better player than them? Many games do that, DayZ does not do any of that.

 

I laughed at the fun ideas on this thread, not at the players - I think "being so evil that you fall off roofs a lot" is a great idea... it made me feel cheerful about life.. but it will not be in the game. Or maybe it happens already ? Perhaps there are bad-karma players already ?

 

As soon as you have a REASON for doing something.. then all players must do the same thing, or they will be at a disadvantage (for instance, they will fall off roofs really all the time).. There are plenty of levels games and Points games and "You Have Won" games around already, and this Christmas there will be a whole bunch more. I'll play some myself. You should try them too. I LIKE some of those safe games where if you get it wrong (not enough points) you can replay the level.

 

One of the things that attracts me to DayZ is - its not like that. You can't win. You don't even need to be fully geared, you don't even need to have a Bible in your backpack.... you do what you want.. No one tells you how well you did today - you CAN NOT win this game..That's great.. But its also GREAT that many different players are involved, and each of them has a different idea of HOW to play. We shouldn't take that away from any of them.

 

Join the game, dude - bring your ideas right into the game with you.. PLAY the way you feel.. the points will be always there in your head.

I understand what you are saying...

My point is though that in this and in every MMO(/RPG or not) game you cant have people taking it serious or at least the majority of them.

There will always be kids,guyz that want to kill their time by doing stupid things for 30 minutes and then leave their game to proceed with their live etc.


I was not talking about numbers and stats that you or any other play could see or earn achievements etc.

All this karma system (at least as I imagine it) should be calculated in the server and no physical evidence should be revealed to us. (you shouldn't how much positive or negative karma one has not even if he/she is on the positive or negative side at all! ) 

I can see yours and some other objections but they all refere to the OP's point of view for karma... mine is slightly (but noticeably) different and I just didnt want to open a new thread about it since this one existed so that we dont spam with topics that have the same idea but different execution that is chaotic ... its better to state an idea in a topic and then refine it by our added input what we like and disslike etc about that idea.. not just talk about the OP position but about any other idea posted after it or atleast those we liked and disliked.

And since I see many of the replies here refere to the OP and state things they didnt like about what he said (and some of those things I didn't like them as well like the falling penalty you mentioned)

I will reapply my version of karma here as a quote to my self please review it and tell me what you find superficial about that? 
 

I like the karma idea actually I thought of it myself and was about to start a topic but I saw this relevant topic so I am going to post here..

I dont think karma should be a "rating" style thing were a player can give or take karma dont see the point and the abuse probability is real. 

What I think karma should be is this:

Karma should be registered in game by the server according to kills.

More specifically, If you kill a player with 0 or positive karma you get negative karma.

If a player with 0 positive or even negative karma (especially if you have negative karma its a way to redeem yourself) kills an other player with negative karma he should get positive karma.

If a player with 0 or positive karma kills a player with 0 karma (or positive obviously) he gets negative karma.



What should karma result to?

I dont believe in punishing negative karma, what I like is a give and take situation so that a player can choose his/her path.

What follows is only some quick thought suggestion just as an example.. what really matters to me (if a karma system would be implemented) is that "gain something loose something else" policy for the players to choose what they like in terms of in game behavior and survival strategy.

So for example if you have negative karma you could be more vulnerable to zombies and get aggroed by them on a bigger radius on the other hand you could deal more damage to other players and receive less damage from them. (the more negative karma you get the more those stats would get higher)


And a player with positive karma could get less agro by zombies be less vulnerable from them (less chance to bleed for example besides less damage taken) have bonuses when he consumes food and if he has a very high positive karma rate he could also have some critical hit chances against villains both in defence and offence(so that negative karma increased defence and damage against players still would have a meaning for them but also giving a change for a super hero to take down a low, normal and even a super villain)

Super Villains(I mean those with lots of negative karma) because of the critical stats of the superheroes may have a hard time to take them down but should easily (or atleast easier than superheroes) kill normal or low heroes and even more easy 0 karma.

Villain vs Villain. because according to the above examples should have higher stats against players (= that means against each other) the outcome should be based on their karma as well so the one with more karma should have even bigger attack stats and defense stats so he should (if his aim is equally good as his opponent) be able to kill him...  so there is a balance.. a villain with higher negative karma will do more damage but needs to land his shots on you in order to deal that damage.. so if you are a better shooter you still can get him down if you have lower negative karma or 0 or small positive karma etc. 

 

Edited November 29, 2014 by papajo

[pilgrim* 3514]

 

 

I understand what you are saying...

..//..

I will reapply my version of karma here as a quote to my self please review it and tell me what you find superficial about that?

 

Hi papajo

I think the DayZ designers decided a long time ago there would be no system of points, or advantages, or experience, in DayZ SA. That seems to be final (and is OK by me).

 

They also decided we wouldn't have flies buzzing around dead players, which is a great pity, I think.. if you played the Mod you will remember the flies. They were fine!. but they are not coming back.. that's sad (not OK by me) but seems like there's nothing to be done. No flies on dead bodies ever in SA.

 

One problem with your karma idea is this:

After a week someone would have done tests and there would be a youtube explanation of how many good karma players you need to kill to gain extra resistance to shots. Someone would show that if you killed five 0 karma players, you would have enough bad karma to take an extra M4 round in the chest without being killed. And who has zero karma? You say "no one knows" - but the newspawns always have 0 karma. So every PvP-er would know that if you kill 5 newspawns before you go off to PvP, your survival chance is increased.

 

Then someone would work out that if you killed 17 newspawns you had enough bad Karma to give you the equivalent of a Press Vest in bullet resistance - except this is a Press Vest that never gets damaged. So PvP-ers would have to kill 17 newspawns to get the 'everlasting bad karma press vest'. It would only take a few days before everyone on the web knew this. You have to kill only newspawns to get it - because they are the only players you know for sure have 0 karma.

 

You don't know how much karma any other (geared) player has so after a session of PvP you have killed players who maybe had more bed karma or less bad karma (total) than you had..

For instance -  you may have killed someone who shot 20 newspawns, so your bad karma has gone down...But either way, now you don't know if your remaining bad karma is still as resistant as a Press Vest...it might have got less?.. so before the next session you have to kill another 17 newspawns to make sure you are up to grade. Or why not kill 25? Then when someone shoots you their bad karma will go down and they will become more vulnerable to bullets. Good revenge. Groups and Clans would jump on this.

 

I promise you (unfortunately) the statistics would be well known after a week and explained in detail on youtube vids, with charts and demos. That's how it works. I know your idea is only a first suggestion.. but if anything like this was put into the game, PvP players would be wiping out fresh spawns as fast as they spawned, because it would armor them the more they killed. And everyone would know it. Ask any PvP player if he minds being aggroed by a lot of zombies when he gets a Press Vest in return, and the Press Vest is not damaged by gunfire or aggro because its 'invisible bad karma' it can only be damaged by you killing someone even badder than you... he'll just laugh about the zombies (or be pissed off and complain) but it wont stop him killing enough new spawns to get the "bad karma bulletproof vest"

 

you see the problem?

 

xx pilgrim

 

These are interesting ideas (yours and the others, and I like "falling off roofs" as an idea of justice, and it is good to read..but as they say on the streets "evil exists"- and that's all).

Totally even playing-field, you can kill someone (I mean the player himself behind his avatar) who's played for 3 years and not died for 8 months as easily as someone who started yesterday. I was killed two weeks ago by a player who did something so totally obvious I didn't expect anyone to ever do that, I thought no-one could ever be so dumb as to do that, but he was, and so he killed me stone dead.

 

The main point is there will NOT be any kind of rating, or experience, or counting, or learning, or game saves, or gaining skills, or aptitudes, or points - of any kind - in DayZ SA. Ever. And as far as I know that's Final. Total. Ziltch. End.

 

anyone correct me if I'm wrong?

Edited November 30, 2014 by pilgrim

[Whyherro123 2283]

 

The main point is there will NOT be any kind of rating, or experience, or counting, or learning, or game saves, or gaining skills, or aptitudes, or points - of any kind - in DayZ SA. Ever. And as far as I know that's Final. Total. Ziltch. End.

 

 

How do you know? And, why the hell not? (I specifically referring to skills and aptitudes)

 

Skills and aptitudes are realistic, and more importantly, a realistic way to add in-game value to one's character.

 

In real life, everyone can't do the same "things", because of different careers or skills known. I can survive in the woods, trap animals and identify plants pretty well, but I sure as hell can't figure out what a broken car needs to be fixed, nor do I know how to suture up a wound. I  can  eventually learn these things, though training and reading about them.

 

Skills would add a lot to a character. For example, your clan might own a car, but you would have no idea how to fix it. You might search around for another player with the mechanic skill, or simply find a repair manual, which would let you use the mechanic skill at a reduced rate. Or, you could "apprentice" one of your clan-mates to the mechanic, in order for them to learn "mechanic" over time.

 

Same thing with medicine. "First-Aid" is easy enough to learn (everyone starts with it), but "Advanced Care" and "Treat Disease" are more difficult. One of your guys has an unknown disease he got from a poorly-treated wound (Blood Infection from an open cut, etc), and you can't really help him besides throwing antibiotics at it. However, you know a travelling doctor comes through here once a week, and you just need him to stay alive for the next few days. Doctor comes by, and you barter some goods for a diagnosis and treatment. You also apprentice one of your new recruits to the doctor (paying his "apprentice fee" with more goods) in order for him to learn the basics of medicine, and to bring it back to the clan.

 

As players get more proficient in their skills (through practice and through reading, which would be an awesome use for some new books), they get more and more "valuable". For example, your recruit comes back, trained in medicine and such, to the point where other players come to your clans' compound in order to barter for treatment. You charge them a "doctor's fee" in goods, in order to see him. Other clans could try to kidnap him for their own ends, or assassinate him to deprive you. Once you die, you lose all skills and experience, and start over with "Basic First Aid", and one other "Beginner Skill".

 

This would, in turn, add a lot of verisimilitude to freshspawns. Now, instead of cuffing them and beating them up for shits and giggles, now you can capture them and see what skills they have.

 

-Clan mate: Up against the wall! Now, anyone have any useful skills to share? We like mechanics!

-1st Bambi: I.......I have Advanced care! 

-Clan mate: We already have a doctor. -BLAM- Anybody else?

-2nd Bambi: I can repair trucks and tractors (LYING)

-Clan mate: Awesome, up against the other wall. Anybody else?

-Other Bambi's: I can X....XXX

-Clan mate: Nope -BLAM--BLAM--BLAM- Alright man, we need you to fix this.

-2nd Bambi: (Oh shit, oh shit, oh shit)

 

Once they find out he was lying, they could kill him, or he might pull it off and fix it, especially if he finds the repair manual in the glovebox.

[Troll_Hunter 54]

It appears that any game mechanics to make KOS less attractive are facing aggressive opposition. Most likely by those who enjoy doing KOS the most.

 

After a week of going through many forum topics and posts it's rather sad to witness the sincere suggestions being buried by a waves of fallacious words. Such levels of blind destruction and insults It is very discouraging to a creative mind. I have no doubt many people have left this forum because of the toxic social environment here.

 

I fear the same base mentality has gotten into the current DayZ player base. As in the beginning the interaction was more interesting and varied, now the remainder are paranoiacs and sadist living out their personal addiction and frustrations online in a legal way. Friendly interactions with strangers have become very rare.

 

I suspect the KOS players succeeded in not only frustrating the cooperative trust inclined players, but also Dean Hall himself into retreating from redit.

Maybe his frustration has something to do with the audience inability to listen, and respond in a rational, constructive manner?

Fight or flight reactions and the complete distrust have made interaction in game and well as on fora far from bearable, let alone enjoyable.

 

If you have a hair trigger fight or flight sensitivity try these old tricks; count to 10, assume the other's positive intent, ask for clarification of their poorly formulated words, Ask yourself what is it they worry about and need? instead of assuming malicious intent. These days people can hardly verbalise without spewing insults. Their fuzzy broken speech has hardly any substance. Most talks are only an attempt to establish dominance over the other. No wonder why people cannot stay together, they have lost their control over their emotions, language and ability to reason.

 

Ok, sorry for appearing a bit off topic, but understand it's my attempt to provide insight and support to people who are creative, proposing something they feel is helpful for the game, but only seem to harvest insults, attacks, paranoia. Please understand it's not your proposal that is so bad, it's the cowardly KOS people who want to keep things as they are, killing with no consequence.

 

If you like the KOS mentality keep on doing what you do, and you'll find the game soon devoid of human targets and or interesting interactions, because it's early fame is surpassed by the KOS reality.

If you like meeting interesting, thinking people, accept mechanics that promote cooperation and make KOS a challenging, difficult and often a costly tactic. Or at least limit yourself to rational arguments and refrain from name calling and destructive tantrums.

 

If you feel aggression coming on by reading this post, have courage, sleep it over and choose to be honest and fair in your response. I really wish people to overcome their hair trigger fight or flight reflexes.

 

Patience and courage,

 

TH

[sachad 1016]

No system is needed. Let the KOSers KOS, and let everyone else play however they want. There should be no forced set of consequences for your actions.

[General Zod 1118]

It appears that any game mechanics to make KOS less attractive are facing aggressive opposition. Most likely by those who enjoy doing KOS the most.

Wrong, the oppositions comes because we understand the following :

- Game is nowhere near finished and most "game play" issues come from that. You can't fix it, you have to wait. 

- Survival elements are only now being added, so there is nothing to make players struggle to stay alive 

- Zombies are few so danger here either. 

- Weapons and ammunitions are over-abundant 

 

So if you combine no challenging survival, no danger from zeds and too much weapons, people will kill because there isn't much left to do. Most people won't launch the game to hike the wood or sit around the camp fire, you either have to be a survival hermit for that or have a really boring life. I may not want this game to be pure PvP but sure as hell I don't want it to be a hiking simulator or Whyherro123s farmland where you get a job on a farm. 

And the karma crowd fails to understand that. They act as if the game is 95% finished and not much will change. While in fact it's the opposite. Pretty much everything will change, assuming devs stick to making it a survival game.  

[bobotype3334 160]

Well, A Karma-esque system would be nice; better if there was no way to visibly keep track of Karma points except in your head.

A Karma system I can envision for the Standalone would retain the original ranks: Bandit, Survivor and Hero. Hero and Bandit each having only a small visible change once achieved and an improvement in a minor stat.

 

Bandits: Upon reaching the Bandit state, the only visible changes would be small scars on their face (Eyebrow, cheek primarily) and exposed skin (Arms and legs). Unless you're face-to-face with one, being able to identify a bandit as a bandit would be considerably difficult at range. Nearly impossible with face gear.

Advantages of the Bandit status being a slight improvement in Night Vision, a small resistance to Cold temperatures and a slower cooling rate while hot.

Standard ways of acquiring negative karma coming from killing Survivors or Heroes, Force-feeding Disinfectant Spray and eating human meat.

 

Heroes: Upon reaching Hero state, the only visible changes would be military tattoos on the player's arm and neck. Like the bandits, it's hard to spot unless you're face-to-face with them. Somewhat easier since they're more likely to approach you.

Advantages of the Hero status being an increased recovery rate while Energized/Hydrated, slightly slower bleed rate, a small resistance to Hot temperatures and heat exhaustion with a greater susceptibility to cold.

Standard ways of acquiring positive karma coming from applying appropriate medical aid to other survivors, killing bandits and removing handcuffs.

 

In this, the advantages and disadvantages of Hero and Bandit are roughly equal. Bandit being easier to achieve, but not quite as useful while fully geared due to a susceptibility to overheating. While the Hero will have a harder time earlier on without warm gear, during rainstorms or at night.

When killed, a player's karma is reduced to just below their original status (so like... 5 karma points below Hero/Bandit) or reset to 0 if they were a survivor without a leaning much in either direction.

No thanks, to any of that. Just let players play how they like. No magical tattoos or ingame karma tracking system is necessary.

[Karmaterror 982]

To me this is identical to the mods hero bandit system, except the skins have been replaced by karma effects. TBH im not a fan of making zombies more sensitive to one than the other.....I mean its not like they recognise a bad guy from a good guy.

 

Random tripping and stuff is sorta similar, the guy wont just loose all his ability to walk because has a bad guy.

 

Im all for realism so my suggestion would be facial expressions. People that do more good than bad have a relaxed looking face, where people that do more bad than good have a tense face.....maybe (in extreme situations say 100+kills then some audio trait like the canabalism thing :)

 

OP makes a good point that bandits are naturally handed some pros simply by adopting that playstyle...like increased safety due to not trying to interact, and free gear from victims. Maybe a bit of a con wouldn't be a bad thing :)

[Mor (DayZ) 57]

There is an obvious KOS/bandit problem in the standalone. I know that the mod attempted to fix the situation simply by changing your skin when you kill a player, but there are problems with this. 

 

1.) You can be labeled as a bandit even if it was self defense

2.) It still had very little consequences for the bandits

3.) It would easy to cover the skin with your gear

4.) Having "bad" people look different is unrealistic and maybe a little prejudice

 

My system should fix most of these problems

I am not sure how your system will fix anything.. What you want todo is instead of marking bandits and thus placing them in a disadvantage in PVP interactions, simply place them in a disadvantage on the server side. Ignoring the logic behind it, the problem with all those system has always been with arbitrary rules:

1.) It will also put others in disadvantage like those who act in self defense.

2/3. ) Bandits could easily use a verity of methods to make themselves in game saints and avoid the consequences.

4.) Having bandits attract more zombies, fall of walls etc is just as unrealistic and maybe a little prejudice

Edited December 1, 2014 by Mor

[Caboose187 (DayZ) 3036]

The only approach to the "bandit/hero" situation is weapon drawn and ready to fire.  The second communication falters or is non existent, fire.

[SteenRNS 35]

Most bandits dont need your gear. I have my own gear and my own food.

I kill you because its the only entertainment in this game right now.

That`s why your playerbase is KOS.

 

What do you friendlies do exactly? Give away beans?

The world ain`t harsh enough. You give away beans to someone who doesn`t need it.

 

I do actualy have a cool story about a friendly player though.

Playing hardcore on experimental ,i saw another player in the treeline.

Charged towards me with a mosin and i instantly thought "Him or me".

Well apparently this guy was a better shot than me and shot me unconcious.

 

So about 1 minute later ,im waiting for either "you are dead" or a second shot to kill the bastard.

I hear a voice. Apparently he had bandaged and handcuffed me.

He had apparently shot me because i had raised my gun.

He took 20 rounds out of my backpack and left the rest.

Then he left.

Disappeared back into the woods.

 

That was an awesome guy.

[Caboose187 (DayZ) 3036]

Most bandits dont need your gear. I have my own gear and my own food.

I kill you because its the only entertainment in this game right now.

That`s why your playerbase is KOS.

 

What do you friendlies do exactly? Give away beans?

The world ain`t harsh enough. You give away beans to someone who doesn`t need it.

Ever thought about thinking outside the box and look at the whole picture?  Interaction is the biggest driving force to this game.  Ya, even tho survival is non existent, guns are a plenty, there are those who actually just roam the lands for the sake of meeting people and seeing what kind of situations can arise from it.  Any idiot can go pew pew all day long.

[mangozapp 46]

...Heroes, as of now, have really no pros with the exception of feeling good about themselves, however they have a ton of cons like being shot on sight a lot...

 

I think this is what makes a hero a hero, also (the KOS bit) is what makes the difference between a hero and a friendly noob.

...That's the slight problem I have with this idea... It's a bit simplistic. Once you've played a lot you realise that there are actually more like 4 kinds of players... and an infinite number of variations between them...

• KOS noobs - panick firing guys who are crapping themselves constantly - i.e. flank them once or twice and they're out of depth.
• Friendly noobs - as dead as KOS noobs but crying about it more maybe.
• Bandits - experienced players who are playing for PVP - but want a good game so they may make exceptions and be quite funny at times.
• Heroes - Real top tier players who don't go running up to armed people saying 'friendly' but may help someone in trouble, warily or in a group.

          (And then there are lone wolves who just do what they fancy - KOS sometimes, a hero sometmes... 'free elements')

 

I don't know, I just wrote that quickly so it's questionable. One of the main points is that players playing as heroes, generally, are the most experienced players - that's how it seemed to work in the MOD. Not all experienced players go that way, obviously, but heroics become more likely because they're the ones who are:

A> bored of banditry because it's too easy for them.

B> have made friends or are in a clan so they have the support needed to approach other players to help them re-equip quickly if things go pear-shaped.

C> They've realised that it's up to them to create an entertaining game in the way they play, they're lookig for new scenarios.

 

Personally I think the game works that way, and I think it is realistic, personally. If you had a lot of armed people suffering from post traumatic stress disorder running around a zombie infested wasteland - I think the greater part of them would be pretty edgy and not exactly feeling freindly.  ...And, anyway, what use is a hero who can't combat an experienced bandit? It doesn't matter how kind and cuddly he is if he's inexperienced.

 

I think DayZ will see far more heroes coming out as the game progresses, there are A LOT of noobs out there - noob = KOS. By noob I mean someone with less than, say, 6 months playing DayZ. That's how long it takes to really start getting to grips with the tactical end of it and start being able to avoid unwanted interactions. It might take another 6 months then for those players to get bored of using their advantage over noobs and start looking for other scenarios (hero stuff) ...or to quit.

 

Also a BIG part of the hero end of things is tied up with players sticking with the same server. When that starts happening (forced by perpetual bases, vehicles etc.) then you can start actually making friends on a server because you see the same names in the server list and bump into them more than once - allies and enemies appear, trust grows. That game is quite a way off now though. I experienced it on a couple of Epoch servers and it was awesome, a completely different game that brought all sorts of new dynamics. ...Clans, medivac teams patrolling the coast, bandits that you hunted for and had a laugh with. I was a lone wolf but I could call for aid from a couple of clans I'd helped out... something to look forward to.

 

So, yup, I think it's just too early now to find those true RP elements, game development wise but also, maybe more importantly, player development wise.

 

B)

Edited December 1, 2014 by Harmonica