Ballistic Vest - What Should It Do?

[Vekaras 7]

I'd like to come back on the "individual pockets" topic.

 

If the devs implemented belts for pants, we could maybe stack some of those MOLLE pockets on the belt to provide a bit more of inventory space?

 

There could have "utility" pockets, holding no specific items, and dedicated ones for only specific uses (like mags / radio / knife holster).

 

That'd be nice ...

[Cap'n (DayZ) 1827]

Off-topic and unrelated to your post, I don't want magazines spawning in any greater quantity (even empty) and I don't want them spawning with weapons. It is one more tool which makes the use of weapons consequential. Moreover, it's another objective in DayZ, which means it's another spark for a journey. Vice just wandering along and finding both a weapon and magazine in one smack.

 

On-topic, was it? I don't recall seeing this vest specifically early on. I recall seeing stuff like the press vest, but not this ballistic vest.

 

It was in the release trailer. It's a 1st person view of someone shooting a female player, and when she falls over you see the distinctive shape of a vest and MOLLE patterns. Looks just like it.

[Forrelist 236]

I think it should just be a simple plate of armour, with no slots for items. A MOLLE system could get complicated, for an item  that is probably going to be a rare spawn. Instead I would prefer to see more variety in backpacks, military storage packs. The Hunting backpack looks like something that Hipsters on campus would wear. :lol:

[hannibaldaplaya 1095]

This isn't something meant to be realistic. It's something meant to encourage depth in gameplay, in forcing the player to embark on a number of potentially unforgiving journeys just to get his/her weapon up and running. Likewise, it makes the use of a weapon consequential when it is more difficult to get that weapon running in the first place.

 

And I'm sorry, if one thing (especially something as inane as magazines spawning elsewhere from weapons) completely "kills the immersion" for you then that's an awfully absolutist approach, and I don't know what to tell you.

 "Depth."

 

The player should be scrounging for rounds, not magazines. Guns should have a 60% chance of spawning with an empty mag.

 

The weapon based struggle should center on bullets, attachments, and actual guns. Not going to a military base for a civilian mag for a civilian gun, when chances are you will find a better weapon while there.

[Katana67 2907]

 "Depth."

 

The player should be scrounging for rounds, not magazines. Guns should have a 60% chance of spawning with an empty mag.

 

The weapon based struggle should center on bullets, attachments, and actual guns. Not going to a military base for a civilian mag for a civilian gun, when chances are you will find a better weapon while there.

 

Again, I'm in full support of making "civilian" weapon magazines spawn in the same locations as their weapon counterparts. Just not together, at the same exact time, next to one another.

Edited July 23, 2014 by Katana67

[Katana67 2907]

The thing is, that Sporter is very weak firearm and having zero chance of spawning with magazine + having to journey into contested military areas to get one, is turning this rifle into absolute garbage.

And that is, I believe, plain bad no matter if from gameplay or realism sake.

 

Same can be said for pistols like P1 and CR75. Such weapons surely do not belong exclusively to military loot, those are firearms that civilians would own as well, so their mags need to have a chance to spawn in civilian areas as well. I could understand that FNX is ment as strictly military pistol, hence it's mags would spawn just there.

 

I do not see any harm in having small chance for said weapons (CR75,P1,Sporter) to spawn with empty magazine.

Plus their mags need to go to civilian loot as well and the sooner the better. This would actualy encourage their usage and make things interesting and variable.

 

Btw loot tables are unfinished and they will stay that way for a long time. Still moving spawns of certain magazines from military to civilian places should not take weeks of work and would enrich gameplay right now.

 

Again, I have always supported moving the .22 LR magazines to "civilian" spawns.

 

This was originally a debate about whether magazines should spawn with their respective weapons.

 

Not whether .22 LR magazines are deserving of "civilian" spawns.

[Lithium1056 45]

Again, I'm in full support of making "civilian" weapon magazines spawn in the same locations as their weapon counterparts. Just not together, at the same exact time, next to one another.

I'm just using your post as an example not directing at you.

People constantly talking about magazines act as if it's perfectly natural to find fully loaded magazines laying around. But have a fit when it's suggested finding a gun with an empty magazine especially pistols. I support finding at the very least a pistol with a empty mag and finding no loaded mags anywhere except maybe at bases where surplus magazines would be located loaded. Weapons should spawn with the appropriate magazine. The current system is not added depth if anything it pulls me out of the game because every magazine is fully loaded I have to regularly dump the weapons I want to use for things like the magnum and the SKS because it may be four restarts til I find a mag for my guns. And I'm not saying hey spawn more mags hell spawning and empty mag in a gun means you can lessen mag spawns.

Even if a mag spawns next to the gun I'd be fine with that that would add more depth to me than finding a AKM 75rnd drum nine klicks from any gun

[hombrecz 832]

Again, I have always supported moving the .22 LR magazines to "civilian" spawns.

 

This was originally a debate about whether magazines should spawn with their respective weapons.

 

Not whether .22 LR magazines are deserving of "civilian" spawns.

 

I understand that but yet I think, that having some chance for weapons I've mentioned to spawn with empty magazine, would be good.

See, we could have both their mags spawning in civilian areas and having small chance of them to spawn with mag.

 

It is not like Sporter is a weapon you will not swap rather quickly. Having chance to get it with mag would prolong it's usefulness, which I find a good thing.

[Evaris 61]

I understand that but yet I think, that having some chance for weapons I've mentioned to spawn with empty magazine, would be good.

See, we could have both their mags spawning in civilian areas and having small chance of them to spawn with mag.

 

It is not like Sporter is a weapon you will not swap rather quickly. Having chance to get it with mag would prolong it's usefulness, which I find a good thing.

See I like the sporter since it's silent and has high capacity mags, and honestly I'd like to use the thing until I find an AK or the like. 

[JokersWarPig 16]

Well on real life plate carriers you can customize what kind of pouches, where they're place and how many of a specific pouch you want on it.

There's different types of magazine pouches (single stack/double stack) grenade pouches,  medical pouches. There's entirely too many to list. I think it'd be cool if you could find the "naked" (no pouches) version and a version with very basic pouches (single stack magazine pouch and a medical pouch for example). Other pouches could be found and added to the vest increasing the amount of items you can carry on it, but it should be able to have at least the same amount of room as the assault vest but not more room than the high capacity vest.

 

Bullet protection wise it should protect from everything up to the 7.62 round the AKM fires at the least, but you should be "stunned" once you're hit, preferably you'd get knocked down/forced into prone but you wouldn't be bleeding/instantly unconscious/dead from getting hit in the chest. After two, maybe three rounds though you should definitely  be bleeding/knocked out or dead.

[SwitchSL (DayZ) 17]

How much shit do you people need to carry?  If they ever set up a weight system, you're screwed.

[Vekaras 7]

How much shit do you people need to carry?  If they ever set up a weight system, you're screwed.

 

That would become very interesting to see how people react  :D

[hombrecz 832]

See I like the sporter since it's silent and has high capacity mags, and honestly I'd like to use the thing until I find an AK or the like. 

 

I'd be happy if those 5 and 10 round magazines could spawn with the weapon,but the 30rnd mag would need to be found in civilan spawns. That way we would have some progression even with Sporter. 

 

Anyway I too would like to use Sporter for some time, but at the moment, due the mag issue that was already discussed, it is unlikely unless  I want to place myself at huge disadvantage.

 

 

How much shit do you people need to carry?  If they ever set up a weight system, you're screwed.

 

 

It's not that things like matches, fishing hook, compass, pen & paper, sewing kit, tablets, some loose ammo, can opener etc weights that much! But it always takes an inventory slot, so even if we have weight system, which I would welcome btw, you could carry lots of different stuff just that majority would be small items.

 

So yea, I like the idea of carrying more stuff, but within given weight system once that is implemented.

Should be my choice whether I carry rifle, SMG, 2x pistol,tons of ammo or I carry just a rifle but also more food and survival items. Stamina & weight system would lovely balance the game in that regard.

Edited July 23, 2014 by Hombre

[Katana67 2907]

I understand that but yet I think, that having some chance for weapons I've mentioned to spawn with empty magazine, would be good.

See, we could have both their mags spawning in civilian areas and having small chance of them to spawn with mag.

 

It is not like Sporter is a weapon you will not swap rather quickly. Having chance to get it with mag would prolong it's usefulness, which I find a good thing.

 

I would be okay with some chance of it happening, a rare chance. But having magazines spawning next to their respective weapons with any semblance of normality, totally undercuts the entire system of making weapon use consequential. It is just one more step in making your weapon all the more easy to use.

[Evaris 61]

I would be okay with some chance of it happening, a rare chance. But having magazines spawning next to their respective weapons with any semblance of normality, totally undercuts the entire system of making weapon use consequential. It is just one more step in making your weapon all the more easy to use.

Umm, not really.  If ammo / guns are rarer in the first place, then that should be that much easier.  Empty magazines -should- be more common than guns, not the other way around.  And given storage space early on in the game, you are going to be forced to manage your storage all that much more, when finding mags.  Take that second mag or the water bottle instead?  And the like. 

[q.S Sachiel 470]

yup. nothing quite like finding a house with pistols and shotgun ammo to load them with.  authenticity over realism i guess.

But I too would like to make it harder to find stuff to gear up for the most part.  Always have the most fun looting for backpacks and SKS rounds, kind of upset when I get to the full mil-kit and AKM/M4 stage, so I usually turn myself in to the nearest gangfight and start over.

[Katana67 2907]

Umm, not really.  If ammo / guns are rarer in the first place, then that should be that much easier.  Empty magazines -should- be more common than guns, not the other way around.  And given storage space early on in the game, you are going to be forced to manage your storage all that much more, when finding mags.  Take that second mag or the water bottle instead?  And the like. 

 

Never did I say that empty magazines should be more common than weapons. I said magazines spawning with weapons should be a rare occurrence, if it occurs at all.

 

I'm saying I like, and value, the aspect of them spawning separately.

 

Again, never did I say that magazines should be rarer than weapons.

[Cap'n (DayZ) 1827]

I think Torchia just confirmed that they don't plan on adding it. It's in the devtracker, I'm too lazy to link the tweet.

[Katana67 2907]

I think Torchia just confirmed that they don't plan on adding it. It's in the devtracker, I'm too lazy to link the tweet.

 

Nothing in the DevTracker from Torchia saying anything of the sort, as far as I can see. Certainly not on Twitter.

[Lithium1056 45]

authenticity realism

You (people in general) keep using those words..... I don't think you know what they mean?

[hombrecz 832]

I would be okay with some chance of it happening, a rare chance. But having magazines spawning next to their respective weapons with any semblance of normality, totally undercuts the entire system of making weapon use consequential. It is just one more step in making your weapon all the more easy to use.

 

Not sure if you did not miss the part, where I specifically named weapons like CR75,P1 and Sporter.

These weapons, in my opinion, would benefit greatly of having a chance to spawn with empty magazine as to make them more viable (+mags spawning in civilian loot).

 

Because if the sitation remains as it is, you wil, in majority of cases, end up with SKS, Mosin, Magnum, before you get to effectively use P1,CR75 or Sporter and that is only because of the magazines. These weapons are as well on the weaker side of the spectrum, so it does not make much sense gameplay-wise to make their usage even harder, because of the elusive magazines.

 

But maybe I'm seeing it wrong, maybe what would be enough is those mags finally spawning in civilian buildings as well.

Would be great if devs reconsidered this as such change should not be technically hard, but would improve gameplay as I believe.

 

Btw I also think that SKS should get longer reload when not using that "clip" thingie.

[Katana67 2907]

Not sure if you did not miss the part, where I specifically named weapons like CR75,P1 and Sporter.

These weapons, in my opinion, would benefit greatly of having a chance to spawn with empty magazine as to make them more viable (+mags spawning in civilian loot).

 

Because if the sitation remains as it is, you wil, in majority of cases, end up with SKS, Mosin, Magnum, before you get to effectively use P1,CR75 or Sporter and that is only because of the magazines. These weapons are as well on the weaker side of the spectrum, so it does not make much sense gameplay-wise to make their usage even harder, because of the elusive magazines.

 

But maybe I'm seeing it wrong, maybe what would be enough is those mags finally spawning in civilian buildings as well.

Would be great if devs reconsidered this as such change should not be technically hard, but would improve gameplay as I believe.

 

Btw I also think that SKS should get longer reload when not using that "clip" thingie.

 

I don't see why just tiering the rates at which certain magazines and/or weapons spawn (i.e. traditional rarity) wouldn't accomplish the same goal (i.e. having ostensibly "common" weapons like the CR75/P1/Sporter be used more often) without sacrificing the act of having to find a magazine separately from the weapon.

 

In other words, why not just have Sporter magazines, Sporters, and .22 LR be more common than SKSs and 7.62x39 as to be make the use of said weapon easier than its en-bloc counterpart? I mean, we're talking about weapons which are probably going to be fairly low-rent anyhow. So it's not like they should be equally as viable as their intermediate and rifle-cartridge firing counterparts either. So, what's there left to do if you want to encourage the use of these weapons?

 

Make them more common, in addition to their magazines, and make the weapons you cite (SKS/Mosin/Revolver) rarer as to accommodate for the advantage given by comparison to their lesser counterparts. We can adjust the rarity of the weapons/magazines/ammunition without lumping any combination of them together. We don't need to have weapons and magazines spawning together to make the use of said weapon more common, we can just have both items spawn separately... but be more common as well. Gibonez made a similar argument with regard to linking optics/attachments to weapon spawns.

 

Either way, you're streamlining the experience. This, in contrast to the streamlining of ammunition types, is a tangible simplification of how many variables you need to take into account to get your weapon to a point at which it can be used. Which is far worse in my opinion, in terms of actually having an affect on how people play the game.

 

Likewise, the argument you're making can be made in any system where one weapon is better than the other. I could say the same (theoretically) about an SKS and a FN FAL. Or a FAL and a Mk 48. Why, in being presented access to both, would I ever pick the former over the latter? That's easy, I wouldn't if I had a choice. If I didn't have a choice, said lack of choice would be provided for by rarity.

 

Also, the CR75 and P1 are perhaps incomparable to the SKS/Mosin... as they're not in direct competition with rifles in the first place.

 

In short, it's not weapons spawning without magazines that's the cause of the problems/inequity between the weapons now. It's the lack of balance to any degree.

Edited July 24, 2014 by Katana67

[q.S Sachiel 470]

You (people in general) keep using those words..... I don't think you know what they mean?

Oh i do, also put it in because someone (mebbe you, too lazy to check) made a thread about why they loathe the term being used ;)

It's not particularly useful to keep incompatable ammunition with a given firearm. (not particularly realistic)

In some countries, it's illegal (fine and loss of license + firearm) if you are caught storing ammunition with your firearm. (authentic -although they'd probably still get you for having the wrong type of ammo with the incompatable firearm.)

 

I suppose the farmer may have taken out his shotgun to fell some Z's for his wife's sake before he too succumbed, but if he's got the pistol i'd expect him to have the rounds for it too.  These kind of scenarios repeat themselves frequently when I play, so it makes me feel that either cherno populace are really bad at picking the right ammo types for their weapons, or they really enjoy dangerous paperweights... or the loot system loves trolling me by giving me weapons and incompatable ammo.  I've got no real issue with a varied loot spawn system, but I believe it does detract from it to a degree by lack of authenticity (but adds to the fun as i know this is one of many paradigms of DayZ) and as Katana says above it encourages scurrying and foraging and prevents a streamlined spawn-gear-?? system and forces a few more forages in between 1-2.

 

Here people talk about ballistic vests and clipons, or weapons with attached empty/full magazines or magazines spawning full and i wonder why because we already have so much ammunition out there for weapons that have (generally) internal magazines or are handguns and mostly inconsequential.

 

Realism: player confronted with scenario that is true to life, or in a manner likely to happen

Authenticity: player confronted with scenario that is believable or can be associated with thoughts; feelings; emotions, to enforce 'believability'.

 

Authentic for mil-Zombies to carry ballistic vests, unrealistic that they take 20+ 7.62x38 rounds to put down.

Your move, oxford dictionary -_-

Edited July 24, 2014 by q.S Sachiel

[Lithium1056 45]

No I'm not to lazy they just basically mean the same thing the way they get used most often, and in this case a creature that neither feels pain nor shock nor (in most zombie lore) has a circulatory system could not be put down by a single round anywhere but the head, which is authentic and scientifically realistic.

My main gripe is that I should be able as in any other survival horror game be presented with a weapon that I can pick up and use. But also have an extremely finite amount of ammunition. Instead I have assloads of ammo and no weapon. Time to find a hammer and nail and just say screw the gun lol

Edited July 24, 2014 by Lithium1056

[hombrecz 832]

In short, it's not weapons spawning without magazines that's the cause of the problems/inequity between the weapons now. It's the lack of balance to any degree.

 

It would be just nice, if Devs adjusted the loot spawns soon, even if those are far far from being anywhere near complete.

I would really love to use Sporter and some pistols more, but without going to military installations.

 

Btw what made me smiling was a tweet, that devs are looking at shotgun to fix it. Would love to use shottie again.