Ballistic Vest - What Should It Do?

[Lithium1056 45]

I think the ballistic and stab vest should be worn under your vest and coat, should only stop small arms fire. They should be police grade and not mil-grade loot. This adds realism to me (although they idea of them having storage an being looted off mil-zeds is cool).

I say this because it makes sense to find them in police station/prison areas. Not sure about Russian prisons but cross the pond it's standard issue for a duty officer to have a light ballistic vest on under his uniform, stab vests are also standard issue to corrections officers in the event they are shanked. Now the ballistics vest should also provide melee protection against blunt weapons as well as axes but not agains knifes and machetes as they can easily slip between the plates. 0.02

[trev186 389]

The ballistic vest should be wearable under your vest/jacket and with that you should be able to wear a shirt under your jacket other than the white undershirts we have by default 

[Evaris 61]

I think the ballistic and stab vest should be worn under your vest and coat, should only stop small arms fire. They should be police grade and not mil-grade loot. This adds realism to me (although they idea of them having storage an being looted off mil-zeds is cool).

I say this because it makes sense to find them in police station/prison areas. Not sure about Russian prisons but cross the pond it's standard issue for a duty officer to have a light ballistic vest on under his uniform, stab vests are also standard issue to corrections officers in the event they are shanked. Now the ballistics vest should also provide melee protection against blunt weapons as well as axes but not agains knifes and machetes as they can easily slip between the plates. 0.02

Well if we're looking at police grade, then it's type III / type IV depending on the police department in question.  (more likely type IV in larger cities) Which means stopping at least all hand gun rounds, and probably at least  protection against 5.56.  (maybe 7.62x39 too, though 7.62 breaks down armor faster.)

 

Here is a type III test:

 

And another with a dragunov clone (same ammo and similar barrel length to a Mosin)

 

 

Here is a type IV test of a coated steel plate vs shotgun wax slugs:

 

Both are civilian grade plates. 

So yeah.

 

To add, an older type III test run that survives 63 rounds of military grade, a third of which is black tip (tungsten AP) 5.56 rounds.

 

Keeping in mind, most police forces are going to carry type IIIa on their standard officers under their jackets and would be used every day of type III A:

-IIIa protection level is what would be found on pretty much every standard police officer on the street these days, (not military, SWAT, preppers, etc, all of which would have III or IV level).-

 

Even if we go down to a class II vest, (if we're talking a rather ill-equipped and ill-funded police force) it would still stop multiple rounds of anything that's not an armor piercing variant of a hand gun shell, or a larger rifle.  And even then, it would probably at least reduce the damage of anything that's not a sniper round.

 

Of course, bows/crossbows on the other hand will pretty much ignore soft armor...

Edited July 21, 2014 by Evaris

[Lithium1056 45]

It should at most stop one or two rifle rounds an 5-7 pistol rounds, for balance otherwise it's god mode esque

[DeatHTaX 1217]

Alright so we have civilian grade body armor that can stop a 7.62...

 

 

 

aaaaaaaand anyone NOT want to put this into DayZ? lol xD I'll pass on the invincible running man scenario, thank you

Edited July 21, 2014 by DeatHTaX

[Evaris 61]

It should at most stop one or two rifle rounds an 5-7 pistol rounds, for balance otherwise it's god mode esque

You know, except for the fact that it only covers the chest, so absolutely every part of the body that is not center of mass is fair game.  If anything a realistic ballistic vest would make people favor snipers and/or headshots more.  Or spraying ammo. 

 

Or maybe taking people alive.  At least initially. 

[Lithium1056 45]

Yeah but couple that with a ballistics helmet and you better hope the head shot knocks them out or your on a hill, unfortunately balance gets favor over realism here

[Lithium1056 45]

Oops dbl post

Edited July 21, 2014 by Lithium1056

[Evaris 61]

Yeah but couple that with a ballistics helmet and you better hope the head shot knocks them out or your on a hill, unfortunately balance gets favor over realism here

Well ballistic helmets are for the most part (aside from a few things special ops teams use... which I highly doubt we'd ever see in game)  realistically type II or type IIIa at best in terms of protection.  Any rifle is going to go through them like butter, as will AP varients of handgun rounds.  Type II won't even stop a standard (non-hollowpoint) .45 ACP or .357 magnum. 

 

So... yeah. 

 

We could go with realism on vests - keep it limited to class III at best perhaps, as rare military level plates of course.  But class IIIa should be able to be found in police stations (rarely) and military bases (commonly/uncommonly?), with perhaps class II inserts/vests being more common given the rural setting?  (found in every police station more or less)

 

Balance it by loot probability rather than gameplay, and don't limit it to just the best, or just the worst.

 

Just like we have civilian rifles and full auto military assault rifles in the game, why not have both cheap civilian / surplus vests and nicer quality vests?

Edited July 21, 2014 by Evaris

[kakysas666 191]

The vest should tire the hell out of you.

 

But drink Rasputin beer, and get energized.  Sure...

 

When will you americans learn that Rasputin isn't BEER, it is KVAS. Should I google you the difference? One is alcoholic, the other is not. It is like calling Pipsi a Tequila.

[hombrecz 832]

I like the idea of plate carrier also with replaceable plates of various protection level and why not some attachable mole pocket or pouch.

Also these plate carriers would need to be in different camo patterns, but that is cosmetic issue fixed easily by different textures.

 

Once plate carriers are in game I would implore devs to change damage model as it is now.

I mean get rid of tin cans and other stuff in your inventory absorbing several rifle caliber shots.

Because as it is now, we already have tin can type of bullet protection and it is already too much.

[trev186 389]

When will you americans learn that Rasputin isn't BEER, it is KVAS. Should I google you the difference? One is alcoholic, the other is not. It is like calling Pipsi a Tequila.

Is is more like Odouls ...taste like beer kinda but no alchol. Wife is Russian had it a couple of times.

[Lithium1056 45]

Well ballistic helmets are for the most part (aside from a few things special ops teams use... which I highly doubt we'd ever see in game)  \

you mean that's already in the game? Cause ballistics helmets are here bubba

[Evaris 61]

you mean that's already in the game? Cause ballistics helmets are here bubba

Yeah, class II / IIIa seem to be what the in-game ballistic helmets hold up as, with a single 5.56 / .45 acp round protection normally before failing, but multiple 9mm / .22 round protection (according to the wiki)

[Lithium1056 45]

Exactly and the one round defense plus the ballistic vest holding up realistically would overpower a person. Don't get me wrong I'm wayyyyyyyy under joyed at PvP in this game but I also understand that it's alpha. I hope beyond a shadow of a doubt that by the time we get to launch (humanity system of not) PvP isn't the end game over all and battles are fought to clear out bandits or gain turf for your clan. Right now unless you have a friend irl you're as likely to get hosed by a hacker, a camper or a ghost simply evaluate you exist.

I want this world to be dynamic to really give players a reason to befriend one another and work together not just be a FFA with zombie bots on the side. When they implement fully the ballistic protection I want that to be the loot you find and automatically give to your gate guards, I want it to give a fighting chance not make them a walking death machine. Over all I know steps get taken towards balancing at each phase. But we don't need counter strikes ballistic shields turning players in to bullet sponges while team mates rain hell on a group of people just trying to survive.

0.02

[infiltrator 275]

It should protect you from ballistas.

 

[Evaris 61]

Exactly and the one round defense plus the ballistic vest holding up realistically would overpower a person. Don't get me wrong I'm wayyyyyyyy under joyed at PvP in this game but I also understand that it's alpha. I hope beyond a shadow of a doubt that by the time we get to launch (humanity system of not) PvP isn't the end game over all and battles are fought to clear out bandits or gain turf for your clan. Right now unless you have a friend irl you're as likely to get hosed by a hacker, a camper or a ghost simply evaluate you exist.

I want this world to be dynamic to really give players a reason to befriend one another and work together not just be a FFA with zombie bots on the side. When they implement fully the ballistic protection I want that to be the loot you find and automatically give to your gate guards, I want it to give a fighting chance not make them a walking death machine. Over all I know steps get taken towards balancing at each phase. But we don't need counter strikes ballistic shields turning players in to bullet sponges while team mates rain hell on a group of people just trying to survive.

0.02

That's not exactly much protection though.  Honestly, if you're firing 5.56 anyway, you should be able to spray.  (and the face is still uncovered and thus a one shot kill)  .45ACP?  PIstols can be silenced, and once that's in the game, that gives pistols their own tactical advantage.  So honestly,that doesn't overpower a person, especially when others can find vests as well.  Ambushes and snipers will still be just as effective as before - you just need to aim elsewhere unless you're using a Mosin (or future equivalent in the sniper department.)  and would make snipers somewhat necessary, given one sniper round = cuts through type IIIa like butter.  Or bows/crossbows which ignore such armor.  And type III?  sure, it makes the center of the torso a bad place to aim- but the entire arms up to the shoulders, head, and legs are wide open targets.  either aim or spray and it's not that hard to hit. 

 

So is it overpowered?  No, not really.  At least not anymore so than requiring a rifle to beat for most, and either volume or accuracy for the highest end vests. 

 

Of course, that's my opinion, and I get the feeling we have rather different opinions between us.

[Lithium1056 45]

It's not a difference of opinion it's just that's not how the damage model works, also I think the helmet currently "protects" the face as well.

And as long as it's balanced I don't see a problem with it

[Evaris 61]

It's not a difference of opinion it's just that's not how the damage model works, also I think the helmet currently "protects" the face as well.

And as long as it's balanced I don't see a problem with it

Well then if anything then it would simply need to come with a damage model tweak, right?

[coltonlong 211]

Lets get some of these......

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ynu0KIRxVU4

 

Thats the stuff man.

[Evaris 61]

Lets get some of these......

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ynu0KIRxVU4

 

Thats the stuff man.

Yeah the AR500 series vests are pretty awesome in general.   But honestly I'd like to see a lot of other things than just AR500 plates (which should be rarer than say a type II kevlar or type IIIa advanced soft vest.)  http://forums.dayzgame.com/index.php?/topic/204289-craftable-armor/

Edited July 21, 2014 by Evaris

[Bruce of Wayne 81]

Well, there goes immersion. And any usefuleness for pistols. You can already take countless 5.56 rounds, 9mm rounda and three mosin rounds, now we have Superman walking around Chernarus.

Seriously, thia would be fine if they changed the damage, which they had better do if they want to keep hardcore players, but with the current system, this is a jokingly bad idea.

Edited July 21, 2014 by Bruce of Wayne

[taco86 156]

[coltonlong 211]

Yeah the AR500 series vests are pretty awesome in general.   But honestly I'd like to see a lot of other things than just AR500 plates (which should be rarer than say a type II kevlar or type IIIa advanced soft vest.)  http://forums.dayzgame.com/index.php?/topic/204289-craftable-armor/

Agreed. Id say youve got basically the same idea I do. I got one of the heavier models. (for paranoia reasons, haha.)

[Evaris 61]

Well, there goes immersion. And any usefuleness for pistols. You can already take countless 5.56 rounds, 9mm rounda and three mosin rounds, now we have Superman walking around Chernarus.

Seriously, thia would be fine if they changed the damage, which they had better do if they want to keep hardcore players, but with the current system, this is a jokingly bad idea.

"immersion" 

Hardly, if anything realism should add to immersion.  Unless you are of the opinion that body armor is less effective than it is in real life.  5.56 rounds are also not guaranteed to drop someone on the first hit, especially at close range where they over-penetrate.  But yes, the damage model should be adjusted for more realism in hardcore mode.