Passive stats

[Lithium1056 45]

Searched didn't see a post about anything like this.

Anyway I'd like to see some sort of passive stats system incorporated. Not quite sure how it's work out as it would have to most likely be per life rather than account but here goes.

Your character starts with his basic abilities at novice, over time however interaction with the world would raise those stats making you more efficient at a skill. Sprinting would increase stamina and hold breath, increase the speed of walking and running etc. melee would increase strength but only for successful hits! Swinging an axe in open air for an hour wouldn't effect it. Chopping trees would effect it but only at like .10 effectiveness. Club a zombie increase strength allowing for fewer hits to kill a zombie. (Axes pretty much one to two shot zombie but let's say your increase your strength and can now three shot a zombie with a machete?) also would increase your resistance to attack from zombies.

Successful hits with firearms increase your firearms (reduce sway, recoil recovery etc) patching gear increases your ability to repair/ damages sewing kits less etc.

Anyway you get the idea!

Like I said would almost have to be per life.

You could incorporate lesser skill to select from to start out with being slightly higher that novice say journeyman level. Or have secondary survival skills unlock on the account level if you master them in one life, but not combat skills. (IE: if you master repair, or camping, every life you start with the expert skill level)

There shouldn't be a visible indicator for these skills except maybe like when you open a can of beans with an axe? "I patched wool coat but not very well" for example. As you skill improves the message improves.

For repair as it goes up, and then you can repair items that normally say you can't patch.

Again combat skills always start at novice.

I suppose you could institute a passive class system from the default character screen that let's you select survivalist, soldier, sportsman etc. that would slightly alter your base stats from the get. You'd respawn as that until you changed your default etc.

Mods if this needs to be merged please do so, again I did search and didn't find a similar post

[Elle 562]

before I finished reading your post I had figured out how best to exploit your skill system with the least amount of effort and risk while allowing maximum benefit - damn that was easy.

 

as for the class system - never. go play WoW.

[Lithium1056 45]

Do share, also I said passive class system where certain skills would start above novice

[General Zod 1118]

No, no overtime improvement, not that type of game. Same for classes

But I would like to see survival statistics, how long have you survived for, how many times have you killed, been injured or sick. 

[DMentMan 707]

no

[UltimateGentleman 355]

This has been suggested before and it's basically 99% met with negative responses just so you know.

 

 

I for one am the 1% it's boring as shit for me to have everyone be exactly the same like 50% of the appeal of RPG's etc for me is grinding my skills and becoming the ultimate warrior, it should work like that in game.

 

Rather than everyone having perfect accuracy or being crap with guns constantly, you should start crap and get better everyone improves with time.

We don't need perks or anything like extra damage or health but basic stats would be awesome you could really feel like your characters life is going somewhere.

 

People who put 100's of hours of effort in should have better stats than someone who just started.

Met with bandits or whatever who have lived that long and got better in each category it forces people to play smart instead of just run up to them and punch them and take their gear.

 

 

No, no overtime improvement, not that type of game.

 

Who decides this?

 

If the game aims for authenticity, this is authentic.

Why is everyone in the game just this random dude who knows how to use all the guns and shit? If you're a mechanic in real life what would be bad about being able to set your character as one?

 

So long as any start bonuses for professions can be gained by all of them it works fine, say a doctor bandages 3 seconds quicker, if a mechanic bandages himself 50-100 times then he can do it in 3 seconds too.

Nothing wrong with that.

 

Very little skill involved in this game as much as people like to disagree with that the only things that determine success are aiming skill, awareness and luck.

I'd like to fight against people who when stamina is incorporated can chase me minutes longer than I can run or can hold their gun steadier, it would be challenging and annoying but if they put the work in they deserve those advantages.

[Lithium1056 45]

No, no overtime improvement, not that type of game. Same for classes

But I would like to see survival statistics, how long have you survived for, how many times have you killed, been injured or sick.

I fail to see how it not that type of game, it's a survival simulator, and again think I should edit that to archetype rather than class seeing as that seems to illicit a cookie cutter image in peoples minds.

Also aside from people that avoid conflict seems like no one live long enough to see any major down fall from this.

And it also makes sense, again it's all a passive system more applicable to PVE. Wouldn't even have to effect PvP

[Lithium1056 45]

This has been suggested before and it's basically 99% met with negative responses just so you know.

I for one am the 1% it's boring as shit for me to have everyone be exactly the same like 50% of the appeal of RPG's etc for me is grinding my skills and becoming the ultimate warrior, it should work like that in game.

Rather than everyone having perfect accuracy or being crap with guns constantly, you should start crap and get better everyone improves with time.

We don't need perks or anything like extra damage or health but basic stats would be awesome you could really feel like your characters life is going somewhere.

People who put 100's of hours of effort in should have better stats than someone who just started.

Met with bandits or whatever who have lived that long and got better in each category it forces people to play smart instead of just run up to them and punch them and take their gear.

Who decides this?

If the game aims for authenticity, this is authentic.

Why is everyone in the game just this random dude who knows how to use all the guns and shit? If you're a mechanic in real life what would be bad about being able to set your character as one?

So long as any start bonuses for professions can be gained by all of them it works fine, say a doctor bandages 3 seconds quicker, if a mechanic bandages himself 50-100 times then he can do it in 3 seconds too.

Nothing wrong with that.

Very little skill involved in this game as much as people like to disagree with that the only things that determine success are aiming skill, awareness and luck.

I'd like to fight against people who when stamina is incorporated can chase me minutes longer than I can run or can hold their gun steadier, it would be challenging and annoying but if they put the work in they deserve those advantages.

Thank you for being the 1%, I gathered most people would meet this with negativity as this seems to be mostly a shooter crowd.

Simplest fix is have this be a private hive option, or simply have role playing hive and shooter hive.

I aimed at passive skills that you really don't think about and can't see because that's part of it. In real life the only indication you have that you're getting better at something is results. Similar to the system is described.

[UltimateGentleman 355]

Thank you for being the 1%, I gathered most people would meet this with negativity as this seems to be mostly a shooter crowd.

Simplest fix is have this be a private hive option, or simply have role playing hive and shooter hive.

I aimed at passive skills that you really don't think about and can't see because that's part of it. In real life the only indication you have that you're getting better at something is results. Similar to the system is described.

 

 

Yeah we don't need to press T or something and see that we have 75/100 gun skill or anything just slowly over time have less sway with guns you use, greater stamina perhaps even go longer without food as your character becomes accustomed to the change in diet.

Currently if things get bad it's an easier option to just kill yourself and start over but if your guy was excellent with gun sway, reloading, medical supplies etc then it'd be a harder decision indeed most people are too casual with their lives in this game but with a progression system dying would be a bad thing as it resets all of what you achieved.

 

It would bring a better class of play in to the game for sure and a more varied and interesting style of game at that.

 

If you want to take out that bandit you better be smart 'cause he can take his gun out and reload faster than you.

How can people not want to be challenged?

[General Zod 1118]

Who decides this?

Let me think....

Oh yes Rocket and rest of Devs

 

 

If you want to take out that bandit you better be smart 'cause he can take his gun out and reload faster than you.

How can people not want to be challenged?

Thanks for posting that. 

This is exactly what's wrong with today gamers. Give me some stats so I can have game given advantage. Challenge is following :

Exactly same gear

Exactly same character abilities

You win with your own real life skills. Not because game lets you take the gun out faster but because you have better reaction time and pressed the button faster. This is a challenge not some dumb stats that give you the edge. 

The challenge is to get better positions, get a drop on someone, those are skills, not some in game perks that give you advantage because you simply put more time into the game and grind more. 

Edited July 15, 2014 by General Zod

[Lithium1056 45]

Let me think....

Oh yes Rocket and rest of Devs

Thanks for posting that.

This is exactly what's wrong with today gamers. Give me some stats so I can have game given advantage. Challenge is following :

Exactly same gear

Exactly same character abilities

You win with your own real life skills. Not because game lets you take the gun out faster but because you have better reaction time and pressed the button faster. This is a challenge not some dumb stats that give you the edge.

The challenge is to get better positions, get a drop on someone, those are skills, not some in game perks that give you advantage because you simply put more time into the game and grind more.

But it's not about those skills in this game Zod, so far this game is about "did I see you first".

Also you're right Dean Hall and the development team decide what ideas to use and not use. But what's that mean if they decide to incorporate passive skills?

And again when I say passive I mean just that, current average life span of a PVP player means you wouldn't really have to worry about it. This is a set for the survival players, the ones looking for a more legitimate experience. I realize to the over all shooter community this holds little desire. Which is why I suggested the simple fix of having two sets of servers one that implements a passive system and one that doesn't.

That's a happy medium for role players and non-role players alike. To many people in my opinion treat this like it's a shooter because it was founded on a shooter platform. When really it's closer to a multiplayer fallout.

I agreed people don't like the idea but that doesn't mean other people won't like it.

[General Zod 1118]

But it's not about those skills in this game Zod, so far this game is about "did I see you first".

Also you're right Dean Hall and the development team decide what ideas to use and not use. But what's that mean if they decide to incorporate passive skills?

And again when I say passive I mean just that, current average life span of a PVP player means you wouldn't really have to worry about it. This is a set for the survival players, the ones looking for a more legitimate experience. I realize to the over all shooter community this holds little desire. Which is why I suggested the simple fix of having two sets of servers one that implements a passive system and one that doesn't.

That's a happy medium for role players and non-role players alike. To many people in my opinion treat this like it's a shooter because it was founded on a shooter platform. When really it's closer to a multiplayer fallout.

I agreed people don't like the idea but that doesn't mean other people won't like it.

And that's how it is in real life, if I see you first and I have a gun you are dead if I decide to shoot you.

And what survival ? At this stage there is no survival in this game. I can tell you that once they add following

- Far less ammo

- Hundreds of zeds 

- Diseases and other health problems

- Harsh weather

 

The PvP will decrease, without adding some stats humanity systems and any other in game enforcement, all they need to do is make few cans of beans, a raincoat and a pistol with 5 bullets more valuable than gold. Than people will stop shooting one another for fun. Right now now there is nothing else to do in this game when you get your gear, there really isn't and it won't change until  they make PvE the real challenge. 

Edited July 15, 2014 by General Zod

[Lithium1056 45]

And that's how it is in real life, if I see you first and I have a gun you are dead if I decide to shoot you.

And what survival ? At this stage there is no survival in this game. I can tell you that once they add following

- Far less ammo

- Hundreds of zeds

- Diseases and other health problems

- Harsh weather

The PvP will decrease, without adding some stats humanity systems and any other in game enforcement, all they need to do is make few cans of beans, a raincoat and a pistol with 5 bullets more valuable than gold. Than people will stop shooting one another for fun. Right now now there is nothing else to do in this game when you get your gear, there really isn't and it won't change until they make PvE the real challenge.

Hence this being a development suggestion and me amending my suggestion to accommodate separate servers

[Chaingunfighter 917]

I fail to see how it not that type of game, it's a survival simulator, and again think I should edit that to archetype rather than class seeing as that seems to illicit a cookie cutter image in peoples minds.

Also aside from people that avoid conflict seems like no one live long enough to see any major down fall from this.

And it also makes sense, again it's all a passive system more applicable to PVE. Wouldn't even have to effect PvP

DayZ isn't a simulator.

[Lithium1056 45]

DayZ isn't a simulator.

So it doesn't simulate a real life survival situation?

It is a simulator, at it's very base gameplay that's what it is. That's the draw for a lot of people, that's why I enjoy it. Because of the simulation factor.

[pilgrim* 3514]

..//..

Rather than everyone having perfect accuracy or being crap with guns constantly, you should start crap and get better everyone improves with time.

..//..

 

you're opening big can of worms here - the gun lobby have been strongly advocating "real skill" in gun shooting, meaning the better you are (you yourself, at home in front of the pc) the better you can shoot.. so the game uses "real" gun characteristics that the player really learn's to use.

 

Now, if as you suggest, the computer boosts your accuracy (etc) the longer you play... meaning that if you log in and do nothing for 1000 hours you will be a much 'better shot' with higher accuracy (et al) than when you started..

This means the computer makes sure you are a bad shot at the start, and the computer makes sure you get better..

 

Then what happens to the "real learned skill that the gun lobby are so keen to see, where it is your true individual ability, together with the 'realistic' parameters of the gun (which do not change) that decides your shooting skill.  ?

 

So - firstly I understand that the Dayz developers decided against any skill levels, or 'learning levels' at all, right back at the start. And this is a firm done-deal decision (please correct me if I'm mistaken).

And secondly - the highly vocal gun-lobby will do a postal berserker if you suggest that gun skills and gun parameters should be more under the control of the computer, and not less..

 

just saying..

 

for myself I'm against any kind of levels or learning..  sorting abuses would be hair-raising and it's not that kind of game, thank the gods.

[benedictus 160]

Do share, also I said passive class system where certain skills would start above novice

 

People should think out of the box here.

 

Skills, stats, classes etcetc have done to death already.. hit zombie 50 times and suddenly you gain some magical power out of nowhere.

 

If tetris was created today it would have skills to slow time and choose your next piece, thus making one of the hardest games ever made into easymode mainstream game.

 

Somethings need to remain hard, kids today saying "go play tetris" obviously havent played tetris.

[gibonez 3633]

RPG elements would be terrible.

[Elle 562]

RPG elements would be terrible.

Indeed. Agreed.

[DeatHTaX 1217]

I think it would be cool for an RPG spinoff later after the game is done and people start to mod this game up (which hopefully will happen, as we have seen in many cases the community seems to be quite adept at these sort of things) I think it could be really cool. But as for the game as it is now, no. No RPG stuff

[UltimateGentleman 355]

you're opening big can of worms here - the gun lobby have been strongly advocating "real skill" in gun shooting, meaning the better you are (you yourself, at home in front of the pc) the better you can shoot.. so the game uses "real" gun characteristics that the player really learn's to use.

 

Come on it's no harder to shoot in this game than in like any FPS it doesn't take skill at all the only thing minorly difficult is judging the distance.

 

Now, if as you suggest, the computer boosts your accuracy (etc) the longer you play... meaning that if you log in and do nothing for 1000 hours you will be a much 'better shot' with higher accuracy (et al) than when you started..

This means the computer makes sure you are a bad shot at the start, and the computer makes sure you get better..

 

Who the hell suggested that? By playing 100's of hours I meant 100's of hours of shooting, hunting, fighting, crafting, bandaging.

What survivor wouldn't improve their skills having spent days or months living in the wild?

 

Then what happens to the "real learned skill that the gun lobby are so keen to see, where it is your true individual ability, together with the 'realistic' parameters of the gun (which do not change) that decides your shooting skill.  ?

 

Judging the distance, timing shots etc it's not like we should have dead on aim still a bit of sway but less and it should take ages to get to that point not fire 20 shots and magically have perfect aim, more like 1000 shots for slight improvement, perhaps against entities too so we can't shoot aimlessly and get skilled to the max.

 

So - firstly I understand that the Dayz developers decided against any skill levels, or 'learning levels' at all, right back at the start. And this is a firm done-deal decision (please correct me if I'm mistaken).

And secondly - the highly vocal gun-lobby will do a postal berserker if you suggest that gun skills and gun parameters should be more under the control of the computer, and not less..

 

Doesn't mean they couldn't add it in at some point if they felt it would improve the gameplay it would go in.

 

just saying..

 

for myself I'm against any kind of levels or learning..  sorting abuses would be hair-raising and it's not that kind of game, thank the gods.

 

Somethings need to remain hard

 

You get that having to take on people with better skills than you would be hard right?

 

Honestly I'm not sure most people are just against this idea or if they just don't want any kind of challenge in a gunfight, if there's no chance of you losing or a very slim chance what's the point? It's that or you don't think you could handle beating anyone who aims better and reloads faster, regardless of their skills it's not like they're unbeatable they can still be stupid.

 

What would be bad about having to play smart? Compared to the current LEL got an M4 = unbeatable unless against M4 just hold shoot and spray everywhere @hardcorebadasskillaz. How often have you been pit against an M4 user that didn't spray a whole mag at you right away? They act like people who've never used guns before and their in game skills should reflect that until they get better.

Passive skills would be great the game wouldn't be full of people who do just take guns and spray bullets at everything they'd get owned by the people who've played many hours, they'd have to change their YOLO playstyle and get better at the game.

 

 

There's no learning element in this game your character can do absolutely everything, no accidentally putting mags in wrong or slow or dropping rounds for rifles or putting bandages on too tight it's like while they were adrift at sea or whatever they had access to Googles wealth of knowledge and learnt all the things.

 

But it's not about those skills in this game Zod, so far this game is about "did I see you first".

Also you're right Dean Hall and the development team decide what ideas to use and not use. But what's that mean if they decide to incorporate passive skills?

And again when I say passive I mean just that, current average life span of a PVP player means you wouldn't really have to worry about it. This is a set for the survival players, the ones looking for a more legitimate experience. I realize to the over all shooter community this holds little desire. Which is why I suggested the simple fix of having two sets of servers one that implements a passive system and one that doesn't.

 

Yeah servers with passive skills would be WAY more hardcore than just first person, you'd have to survive for hours and hours not just run to the nearest town find an SKS and ammo then be good to go to an airfield and get an AKM or whatever. That should never be possible but it is because nothing in this game is difficult other than trying to escape zombies while rubberbanding.

[Chaingunfighter 917]

So it doesn't simulate a real life survival situation?

It is a simulator, at it's very base gameplay that's what it is. That's the draw for a lot of people, that's why I enjoy it. Because of the simulation factor.

It has realistic elements, but its not simulating the apocalypse. A simulator would be trying to make it as realistic as possible, something that DayZ does not always do, in the interest of good gameplay.

For example; you only need to "apply" a splint in order to "fix" a broken bone, whereas a simulation would actually need you to use the splint and nurse the wound for weeks/months until it healed.

 

Now, obviously, that wouldn't be fun or interesting at all, considering that requiring a splint or morphine is more realistic than some games which only require "medkits" or don't have in depth injuries at all. However, that does not make it a simulation.

 

Game with realistic elements =/= simulator.

[pilgrim* 3514]

..//..

50% of the appeal of RPG's etc for me is grinding my skills and becoming the ultimate warrior, it should work like that in game.

..//..

 

You get that having to take on people with better skills than you would be hard right?

 

Yeah servers with passive skills would be WAY more hardcore than just first person

nothing in this game is difficult other than trying to escape zombies while rubberbanding.

 

Thanks for taking the trouble to read my post and answer in such detail.

Speaking for myself I'm 100% NOT interested in grinding for skills - good gods !

 

DayZ is not a LEVELS game will never be a levels game, it has been stated that levels or skills will NOT be introduced, no one in their right mind wants it to be a levels game. And "grinding" is not in the DayZ concept.

As you say yourself, you want to do the same thing repeatedly for a long time so that the computer gives you extra powers for doing that

- then it will be easier for you to beat the noobs ?

 

If you can't beat the new players or less experienced players already you are playing the game wrong.

If the other player sees you before you see him you are playing the game badly. That's why you loose.

If you don't have the right equipment and you don't shoot before he does - you blew it. It is a tough game and there are loosers every minute. Start again.

If you think getting the drop on someone is "unfair" then try talking instead.

 

If "nothing in the game is difficult", why do you want to grind to make things easier for yourself ?

 

(please don't answer this last question, it's rhetorical)

[Lithium1056 45]

To be honest Pilgrim they could add this in the way I discribe a it minus the picking a proficiency before spawn part not tell anyone and 95% of players would never notice. It would all be back end.

And again if fully support seperate servers for this, hell I would even support this as a post final version mod. I'm glad to see people debating it, but at the end of the day it's not gonna make or break me if the Devs never see or consider this idea. It's just a concept, not intended to make combat vs player easier really (though that seems to be the direction people are taking it) rather mimic the fact that in a real life situation you would over time become better at any repetitive action.

I think it's best we just let this drift back towards the back pages and carry on

[pilgrim* 3514]

To be honest Pilgrim they could add this in the way I discribe a it minus the picking a proficiency before spawn part not tell anyone and 95% of players would never notice. It would all be back end.

..//..

I think it's best we just let this drift back towards the back pages and carry on

 

I do understand your points. If you check back in the forums there has been a lot of discussion about this stuff.

For me the DayZ game is this: - all players are the same, and there is all kinds of stuff to use, same for everybody, and you use your own wits as best you can.

Secondly - DayZ has always been a "rough" game, and an "unfair" game.. suddenly you are dead and you dont even know why. I like that, it is a main part of the game. It's a bad mean game that is not polished around the edges and I hope it stays like that.

 

Because everyone is the same with the same stuff and same opportunities and same dangers, and its down to what you do with it (and the game is going to kill you anyway) this makes a game where players can do completely different things, it's really open world, you can be a no-pants jesus freak, or you can fight a geared military player with your bare fists, or you can live in the forest, or you can play military police... no one is "better" or "worse" than anyone else, there can't be a winner - its always down to you what happens (and you're still going to die anyway). So nobody should get any points or game advantages for anything at all. Not even the slightest.

If you find a water bottle you can carry water - that's the advantage you just won, nothing else.

 

IMO. Thanks, good discussion. I'm not saying I'm right, this is just "how I like it".