The ONLY Realistic Way to Prevent Deathmatching: Make DayZ a Living Hell

[Ultenth 12]

Bigger groups of survivors means bandits will group into bigger groups to take the large survivor groups huge amount of stuff. It will change it from 1v1 deathmatching all over, but you'll have group pvp more, which to me is more exciting and interesting anyway.

Yes, the game is too easy once you figure out where stuff is and how to kill/avoid zombies. Players should be a hard challenge and a big threat, but not more so than the zombies. Zombies and THE WORLD ITSELF, need to be a big enough threat to the player that the cannot survive on their own. And equipment, while important, needs to be balanced, as stated earlier in this thread, so that asking that player on the other side of the office building to join you is a better idea than killing him for his stuff.

Also, as long as players can use DC techniques to cheat the system and kill players, they will. PvP in this game is broken 9/10 times, because the people you fight will often cheat the system. A solution is much harder than many people suppose though. If you simply stay in game for say 30 seconds after a DC, the outcry amongst players upset about dying from a random server DC or computer issue will be deafening. Rocket's idea to have you carry your zombies with you if you DC solves the PvE issue, but the PvP issue is going to be much much harder to solve.

Idea to add to the list:

Food should not be spamable. You should only be able to eat so much food in a short amount of time. This would DRASTICALLY increase the importance of blood packs, and thus having a friendly player around to transfuse you. If you can no longer carry 6 cooked meats on you and get 40% of your life back by spamming them, being a lone wolf and kiling others is a much harder task. Because you now would use less food, scaling back the ease of gaining it even further than suggested might work.

Alternative Suggestion: Make food spammable still, but instead of instant health, it gives you health over time, as the food digests in your body. If you eat too much food you can overeat and vomit all of it back up, losing your health regen and perhaps becoming "pain" induced for a period of time.

Edited July 14, 2012 by Ultenth

[Robert_merello 2]

Approve, LET THE IDEA BE IMPLENTED UPON.

[sandbagger 1]

Let me try to address 2 arguments I'm seeing a lot.

1. More scarcity = More Bandits.

I think at present there is too much scarcity in the game. Given the small number of survivors to the dead and the deadish, there should be figurative mountains of loot. Every home should yield up canned goods of one sort or another including bottled water and cokes. Bic lighters and boxes of matches and maps should litter the floor of gas stations. Basic rifles, pistols, and shotguns and their ammo should be common as dirt. Parking lots and driveways should be packed with fully operable vehicles, just waiting to be hotwired and driven off. Store shelves and tool sheds should offer up hatchets, axes, shovels, and crowbars. The more advanced stuff nvgs the fancier flavors of weapons should be rare everywhere, but the military bases or wrecked or abandoned military vehicles. Where they should be found in reasonable quantities. The same goes for MREs. And unless my survivor is the victim of a shipwreck, he should spawn with at least one weapon and a basic supply of sundries. And not born naked into the game. All in my humble opinion of course. The question is what kind of a post-apocalypse is it? The Road or Dawn of the Dead? It makes a difference. If the zombie has been going on for years. If it's a The Road type situation then nvgs, gps's, thermal sights, et al battery powered equipment shouldn't exist and ammo should be nearly nonexistent. If it's Dawn of the Dead then load the stolen car and head for Wal*Mart.

Edited July 14, 2012 by sandbagger

[OW22 21]

Yes, now we know what the zombie infection was caused by, right? Severe climate change caused a new type of bacteria to grow and host in living organisms like animals and humans. That provides story, and opens up more roots as well.

Now, you NEED a fire, can't really see straight half the time to take people out 1km away, and gives onto what rocket is most excited about: underground construction. Having a hidey-hole like that will be a blessing.

You talk about the Zeds being in packs, but I don't think they should roam that way, because they'll be running into eachother all the time.

A world that's constantly engaging, fighting for a time when you can safely log out... debating sneaking over sprinting in and running out to progress inevitable detection. But don't add those crippled limbs until it works like Fallout. We'll be crawling more than we are now.

As for morphine and splints, why not lose blood when you use the limb? You can still shoot but god it hurts. You can still run but you get dizzy. Then you can still just limp and not lose any blood at all. If both your legs are broken, god help you. If you break your arm too, now you're immobile. Splints can be made by anyone provided with 2 to 3 items. A binding material, and a straight object like a board, or 2 of them in case of a broken leg, so anyone should be able to make an apply them. Maybe if your arm is broken, you can't make one, but if one is premade you can apply it?

When you talk about ammo, there's actually a lot more than you think, and it should be decreased.

Edited July 14, 2012 by OW22

[s.taylor.75@gmail.com 23]

None of this is gonna happen. I understand most players have been handheld by guilds and carebear mechanics their entire gaming lives but this is simply not the game for them.

[Ultenth 12]

I think at present there is too much scarcity in the game. Given the small number of survivors to the dead and the deadish, there should be figurative mountains of loot. Every home should yield up canned goods of one sort or another including bottled water and cokes. Bic lighters and boxes of matches and maps should litter the floor of gas stations. Basic rifles, pistols, and shotguns and their ammo should be common as dirt. Parking lots and driveways should be packed with fully operable vehicles, just waiting to be hotwired and driven off. Store shelves and tool sheds should offer up hatchets, axes, shovels, and crowbars. The more advanced stuff nvgs the fancier flavors of weapons should be rare everywhere, but the military bases or wrecked or abandoned military vehicles. Where they should be found in reasonable quantities. The same goes for MREs. And unless my survivor is the victim of a shipwreck, he should spawn with at least one weapon and a basic supply of sundries. And not born naked into the game. All in my humble opinion of course. The question is what kind of a post-apocalypse is it? The Road or Dawn of the Dead? It makes a difference. If the zombie has been going on for years. If it's a The Road type situation then nvgs, gps's, thermal sights, et al battery powered equipment shouldn't exist and ammo should be nearly nonexistent. If it's Dawn of the Dead then load the stolen car and head for Wal*Mart.

As you said it all depends on how long after Z-Day the game takes places. As there are so few survivors, it's safe to assume the game takes place at least months if not years after the start of the virus. That being the case, with industry shut down and not making/shipping new items, they would be used up at a dramatic rate by the initial wave of survivors. At the point where we are now with only a few remaining, the current zed's would have most likely used a ton of those resources up before being turned, leaving the world in a state of....wait for it....scarcity! So yeah, food, water, weapons, etc. should all be in short supply at this point, not the readily available state they currently are.

None of this is gonna happen. I understand most players have been handheld by guilds and carebear mechanics their entire gaming lives but this is simply not the game for them.

You do realize that 99% of people posting in this thread are asking to make the game HARDER right? Thus all the suggestions are of that vein, so I'm not sure what sense your comment makes.

Edited July 14, 2012 by Ultenth

[Gunnm 2]

If i summarise ideas so far that are good in my opinions.

1) Food and drink harder to get

2) Ammo scarcer, military weapons very rare weapons

3) No more score ( but i like to see how much infected i killed ^^ since i dont kill players most of my time )

4) Less slots

5) Harder infected

For 1)

i'll add this : easier to refill a bottle, but 50-75% death by dehydratation if not purified with pills who are available by pack of 8 pills in military medic supply.

Point 4:

For secondary weapon. 1 bandage + 4 clips

For the main bag 3 drink +1 food + 3 rifle clips

For tool, 4 slots seems good and realistic i have 4 pockets on py regular pants.

For 5)

Infected currently ( 1.7.2.3 ) are way too fast, a bit too deaf . I'd like to see them with better earing and lower speed ( about -20% seems good ) the eyesight seems good actualy.

Some exhaustion penalty for running too long. Actualy it just shakes a little the aim and you dont stop running. Penalties : Cant run, Lower speed in prone and crouch, less shake but poorer aim going up and down widely.

[rikske66 3]

I completly agree with the OP(just trying to make sure this thread doesnt get lost in the forums)

[andy_uk15@hotmail.com 70]

I'm all for finding ways to make Day Z harder.

Things like a limited food & water supply aswell as more limited high end military gear...However, as resources get more scarce, players will get more territorial. While everything mentioned in your post is likely to encourage teamwork, it's will not stop the murders.

The real focus in this game should be the zeds. Right now players are the biggest threat AND reward in Day Z. Make killing Zeds harder, more numerous/dangerous and, most importantly more lucrative.

[YourStepDad 6]

While your argument may be true and I'd probably end up agreeing with it

The reason we shoot on sight is because we have nothing to gain from teaming up.

I have stopped reading there.

[sandbagger 1]

As you said it all depends on how long after Z-Day the game takes places. As there are so few survivors, it's safe to assume the game takes place at least months if not years after the start of the virus. That being the case, with industry shut down and not making/shipping new items, they would be used up at a dramatic rate by the initial wave of survivors. At the point where we are now with only a few remaining, the current zed's would have most likely used a ton of those resources up before being turned, leaving the world in a state of....wait for it....scarcity! So yeah, food, water, weapons, etc. should all be in short supply at this point, not the readily available state they currently are.

It would have to be a pretty slow moving virus for things to play out like that. In that case the Zeds "winning" becomes unlikely.

[paradox. 12]

very good very very good. Only thing that should be changed is how you get a cold. You dont' get a cold from your body being cold.

How a cold works.

A person's contagious from the day before the illness breaks out, until one to three days after they feel better. The infection is spread by airborne droplets, when the sufferer coughs or sneezes.

It can also be spread by hand, if someone has the virus on their hands and then puts them close to their eyes or nose. This is possibly the most common way of catching a cold.

so basically you get colds when your imune system is down and someone else has it. Which can be achieved by being cold but its actually more common to get a cold in summer time(which is quite funny)

I just don't see the need of having the cold in the game but the other illnesses make sense.

Edited July 15, 2012 by paradox.

[OW22 21]

very good very very good. Only thing that should be changed is how you get a cold. You dont' get a cold from your body being cold.

How a cold works.

A person's contagious from the day before the illness breaks out, until one to three days after they feel better. The infection is spread by airborne droplets, when the sufferer coughs or sneezes.

It can also be spread by hand, if someone has the virus on their hands and then puts them close to their eyes or nose. This is possibly the most common way of catching a cold.

so basically you get colds when your imune system is down and someone else has it. Which can be achieved by being cold but its actually more common to get a cold in summer time(which is quite funny)

I just don't see the need of having the cold in the game but the other illnesses make sense.

Why don't we call it hypothermia and go home?

[mdevch 12]

that would never work to make it so hard, that one alone can't survive.. why? simple!

there are people in the game, they don't WANT TO PLAY WITH OTHERS..

they want to enjoy alone, survive alone, gear up slowly, go to hunt, enjoy the map..

the current balance is fine. it's hard to survive and exactly that is what it should be.

it's a shooter, not a zombie simulator.

a shooter with no teams, you have to team up yourself and deal with realistic aspects like hunger, thirst and an apocalypse.

and of course, a start with no gear, what pushes you to try to survive.

try to imagine this aspect.

it's a shooter with the goal to have the longest life instead of the most kills.

if someone runs towards me with a gun and cries help me, help me with just 2 zombies behind him and he don't stop running towards me, of course i kill him, you can be sure, everyone can deal 2 zombies in an other house, he just wants to distract you and take your gear.

[Ultenth 12]

that would never work to make it so hard, that one alone can't survive.. why? simple!

there are people in the game, they don't WANT TO PLAY WITH OTHERS..

they want to enjoy alone, survive alone, gear up slowly, go to hunt, enjoy the map..

the current balance is fine. it's hard to survive and exactly that is what it should be.

it's a shooter, not a zombie simulator.

a shooter with no teams, you have to team up yourself and deal with realistic aspects like hunger, thirst and an apocalypse.

and of course, a start with no gear, what pushes you to try to survive.

try to imagine this aspect.

it's a shooter with the goal to have the longest life instead of the most kills.

if someone runs towards me with a gun and cries help me, help me with just 2 zombies behind him and he don't stop running towards me, of course i kill him, you can be sure, everyone can deal 2 zombies in an other house, he just wants to distract you and take your gear.

Just like in real life, surviving alone SHOULD take a lot more work than doing it as a group. In a group you can pool skill sets, keep watches while others sleep, haul more stuff, etc. etc. Currently the game seems to encourage more solo play than it does group, and that does not accurately reflect the enviorment the game purports to take place in.

[OW22 21]

Just like in real life, surviving alone SHOULD take a lot more work than doing it as a group. In a group you can pool skill sets, keep watches while others sleep, haul more stuff, etc. etc. Currently the game seems to encourage more solo play than it does group, and that does not accurately reflect the enviorment the game purports to take place in.

These are both two sides of a very good argument, and are good points. For now though, I'll sit on the picket fence until I fall onto one side. Keep posting please; I'm interested to see where this goes, as I'm not even sure where I stand on this.

[Lady Kyrah 1110]

Can someone remind me why PVP is a problem again?

[Uno 13]

http://dayzmod.com/forum/index.php?/topic/32286-altering-z-by-influencing-pvp/

[Shorttallguy 3]

while i agree players need incentive to work together i don't think all this will do it. i WOULD like to see things become more scarce and precious, but if they are there will still be the mentality that it is easier to just shoot you and take what you have then to try to trust you in to helping me get what i need.

I think rather the answer is obsticles you MUST have another person to over come. blood transfusions are already a great example. more things like this would help. On top of that areas that are hard to reach without help would be awesome or difficult tasks. like say there was a city without power and you needed power for some reason. you had to get in the powerplant which is cover with zombies to turn it on but it can only be turned on by multiple people. or say there was something to climb and you could give people a lift up or pull them up. little things like this. if there are enough of them, the benefits of grouping will out weigh the benefits of murdering.

To promote a larger scale of cooperation, what if there was a way to take control of a city, even just individual buildings or set up your own little base but it could only be done with many people because of labor, materials, defense and matience. this sort of thing. To be honest, if zombie spawning was changed a little, there already is with the barbwire and what not but it just takes the players to think of this and encourage each other to do it. once a few do it people will see the benefits and WANT to work together. The dynamic of the game will change on its own.

I would like to see more ways to control an area though. maybe ways to lock doors and even barricade them with boards and such.

You're right on one thing though. Make it hell out there. Making sure ZOMBIES are by far the biggest threat in the game is the key to this though. right now it is other players. players should be more scared to get over run by zombies then get shot by another player and that's not the case now. Zombies need to group more in larger numbers and be more of a threat. What if zombies had new abilities like being able to grab you and bite you and even infect you? most importantly though, there has to be more reason to go to zombie infested areas all the time.

Edited July 17, 2012 by Shorttallguy

[BT_Fae_HB 24]

read through a fair bit of this and some cracking points, I do like the thinking of the OP. Few ideas I've been thinking about.

• Random spawn locations for loot
  
• More Z's especially growing to hordes that wander more especially if they come into contact with large groups.
  
• Z's should be slower moving, but harder to shake off once they have your scent and once one starts to follow more will instinctively follow it, you tire they never.
  
• The more you carry the slower you move.
  
• Camps should attract Z's due to noise smell, the more they are used the more they attract, eventually leading to hordes, which if they over run it, destroy it stopping people dying rushing back to their camp grabing tons of kit and off they go, forcing camps to move more.
  
• More melee weapons less high powered military grade kit, especially sniper kit and high powered thermal scopes.
  
• Bandits who continally hunt an area should attract more and more Z's until it's a horde, the gun shots and smell of the dead should continually narrow down their location.
  
• Z's should be able to climb a ladder but once you go up the Z's will stay there and wait for you, you either starve or run for it
  

over all though loving the game.

[Izbj 0]

I hope you realize how awesome this is. I am all for every single one of your proposals. Those who disagree are afraid of change.

[Jehangir 52]

Bandit mentality: kill everythingon sight, because they might have that tool or food, or item I really need. This just incentivizes the anti-socials and bandits, it doesn't help cooperative play. Sure survivors may band closer, but bandits will have a much more serious reason to kill and loot you.

[dyno0919 0]

First off, I'd just like to say that I love most of your points. I've never had many problems with bandits, but I love the idea of making this game incredibly more difficult!

I have just one small gripe though: your new thirst and hunger system. I understand you make this list in an attempt to un-deathmatch players who have already been playing. I, personally, believe this system completely destroys the game for noobs, or even just new characters in general. From what I understand, you intend to make hunger and thirst incredible obstacles which have the potential of rendering the game unplayable. Yes, that's realistic, but the 1 hour timer for bleeding of thirst? Not very realistic. I have died many a time from thirst as a new character simply because I did not want to scavenge a large town, ran straight for the countryside, and didn't find any liquids in the wilderness that first hour of playing. Let me spell out a scenario for a new character with your new system:

Spawn near Elektro. You look towards the city and see two or three large packs of zombies roaming the only entrances nearest you. You have to make a decision: you know that spawns for consumables are greatly reduced, and the odds of finding anything within that first hour in some small towns are next to nothing, but you also know that entering Elektro will lead to a zombie train, infection, and possibly no return. You walk for a good 20 minutes to the north firestation and notice that your thirst is becoming a faint yellow/orange. You see a few lone zombies blocking the entrance, and you have no weapons with which to defend yourself. You decide there is no way to enter the town without a weapon, and begin heading for the hills. After 20 minutes of running, your thirst meter hits a faint red and you are at least 10 minutes from the nearest town. You finally reach it with a deep red thirst meter and you begin experiencing the side effects. You spend half an hour using the greatest skill of sneaking and avoiding, only to find a can of baked beans and an empty canteen. A canteen which you will never be able to fill because you start hallucinating and passing out. At that point, even if you still had full blood, you would respawn because you just can't play the game like that any more.

It's like broken leg syndrome. It's an interesting system and sounds good on paper, but it's a game-ending, random occurrence. Do you understand what you're doing from a balancing standpoint? I think the thirst and hunger part of the game is fine as it is right now. Maybe a little on the easy side. With that, I'll say that reducing spawns may be a good idea. But you plan on making consumables spawn less, make reaching spawns more impossible for a new character (no weapon or facemask=no big towns and only small towns usually 30 minutes to an hour away from any spawn reachable), and make thirst a game-ending experience if you don't find liquid by the time you reach your first town? It's a cool mechanic for people who actually already have resources, but as for a new player it just doesn't make sense from any standpoint.

There is an easy solution, however. Spawn with a filled canteen and a can of food. As long as we're making the game realistic, no dumbass would leave their house without a couple of these things actually, so we should at least start with one if you're going to implement what you've stated above. I think it could still use a bit of tweaking beyond that, like keeping spawn rates where they are, but otherwise great ideas man! Hopefully a few of them make it into the game!

[jay.pis 32]

Best solution...find a group outside the game then play.

Unless they add in factions/teams there won't be a better solution.

[Hellequin 1]

My apologies for not reading the entire topic (it would take too long), but overall I enjoyed the OP. I like some of the ideas they proposed. I like the idea of additional game mechanics to make my game feel deeper (almost like playing NEO Scavenger), but my problem comes (like others have said) with people who are already in a group. Right now I play permanantly with one friend. We also have 2 to 3 others who join us periodically. We're already a set group, and would probably have little incentive to try and work with another random person in-game unless the game one day required us to form a town of 5/10/15+ people. For now and the forseeable future, we have all the people we need. The same can be said for all the other groups, bandit or friendly.

So, would giving a deeper game experience improve gameplay? It would certainly be more fun for me, since my friends and I would have more to do than just run around collecting guns and looking for vehicles. Would it solve PvP? Not really. Groups will still be KoS. Sure. Some lone survivors might team up together to survive the harsher world, and many of them might even form lasting friendships. Then they'd be just another group, who once they had all the people they needed to survive, might be less accomodating to encounters with other strangers.

The one good area the OP touched on was that there is no consequence for KoS. Right now you kos, and thats it. In a forest you don't agro zombies, and rarely agro other players. You win. Kos in a city you might agro a few zombies, but those are ridiculously easy to either kill or dodge right now if you know what you're doing. The only drawback is that you might also agro another survivor, and with a few zombies on your ass, it might be a bit tricky to stay alive. Except, if you're sniping in a tower somewhere, yeah you'll be fine.

So tl:dr, despite the added depth I think some of the OP's ideas might bring to the overall game, I think we'll still have groups killing on sight, with poor frightened (friendly) survivors running around helpless and getting shot. Kinda like it is now.