How to avoid people going after their own corpse

[kOepi (DayZ) 35]

Hello Dayzler,

inspired by Blern, thank you, I made this post.

I would like to suggest a restriction to one server, one dimension, only.

currently experienced:

people play close to loot and spawn areas to recover their own stuff quickly back after they have died.
They have like ten minutes to do so.

expected:

people cannot get to their own corpses, neither can they take their stuff out of it, because in one world they live only once.
Bodies dont disappear strangely after ten minutes. it takes years or centuries to let humans and stuff disappear.

variants of techniques to fullfill a more realistic environment:

1. once you have died on a server you cannot get back on the same one for a time of x ( maybe one hour ).
    the only way corpses disappear are through hiding and taking away its stuff. Ergo: no despawntimer

2. once you have died on a server you cannot get back on the same one for a time of x ( maybe one hour ).
    corpses dissapear within time x ( maybe one hour ) to maintain server performance.

thanks for your attention.

greetz

kOepi
 

[NuckFuts 265]

Simple, Camp the dead body for a little while, I mean what else is there to do in this game? when he comes to get his stuff back.. give him a reason to not want to try again :) 

 

Problem solved.

[stielhandgranate 480]

Who fucking cares if someone tries to recover their stuff? How is this game breaking when it seems like an asspain anyway? Most of the stuff will be ruined from gunfire anyway.

[Aamunkajo 110]

Just shoot the body few times so his/her stuff is ruined ---> he cant use them. Dumb the gun to a bush or something.

[Mancomb 131]

I think the OP is talking about making it more realistic, in that, IRL when you die, that's it; there's no going back for your stuff, because you're dead. You don't reincarnate after a few minutes into a new body. Also that IRL corpses don't completely vanish after several minutes, they decompose over several weeks or months. As cool as this would be, I'm not sure if the programming is up to it, nor am I sure how much of a priority it would be for the dev team.

 

Something I WOULD like to see, however, that is somewhat related to this, is items not always being completely ruined upon death, or even injury. I don't know how many times I've fallen from a few feet up and broken my leg (hopefully THAT will be fixed eventually as well), only to have my pants AND everything in the pockets COMPLETELY ruined. This makes no sense to me; just because the article of clothing I have on may be ruined (which happens FAR too easily, IMO) doesn't mean that everything in the pockets should instantly be ruined as well. Sure, if I'm being shot, then, depending on where the bullets hit me, certain articles of clothing and items in the pockets should be ruined (e.g. if I'm shot in the chest, whatever is in my shirt pocket should probably be ruined), but if I'm being attacked by a zombie, and they manage to get a few hits on me, that shouldn't instantly ruin my shirt or pants, or whatever is in the pockets. Damaged, yes, of course, but not completely ruined. I also think that, for something to become completely ruined, it should have to take far more damage than is currently needed. It seems like now it only takes a few hits to get to that stage. I hate having something pristine, only to be hit a couple of times and it be completely ruined, especially since you can't repair ruined items.

[djporternz 644]

Corpses are bait, nothing more. And it works both ways.

 

It is very rare that you get back to your body and find anything worth having. Better off heading in another direction and hope for better luck elsewhere. The only reason I ever go back to my corpse these days is for a cup of bitter, cold REVENGE! But I'll ensure that I get there tooled up before I get there!

 

PS: The only thing ever worth going back for is the can opener!

[kOepi (DayZ) 35]

@porter

actually in some groups its their main objective, to hold out and watch a friendly body until he comes back, with 10 people sitting in a building in elektro.
They dont come even to play in any direction they just sit ducks and from time to time someone dies and his body gets watched.

atm you could use almost anything, clothes, ammo, weapons, protector cases, it does save a lot of time going to your old body. are you playing dayz standalone?

[ghasteater100 5]

If you die in a city that you can spawn in, you will not spawn in or close to that city for X amount of time.

[St. Jimmy 1631]

Variant 2 is what I choose but I would like longer timer both for despawn and being able to get back in the same server.

//I got to add that variant 1 is ok too. There just needs to be a way that you can't run over your corpse and take stuff.

Edited May 26, 2014 by St. Jimmy

[blackberrygoo 1416]

A lot of people have suggested decaying corpses and I'm all for that idea .. I mean it makes perfect sense , bodies decay in real life why not in the game ? We all know this crappy 32 bit client won't be able to support decaying bodies til they disappear (turn into bones which after another ten minutes turns into dust or just vanishes, it's unrealistic in that sense but more realistic than bodies not decaying and suddenly disappearing .) but what about when the new renderer/64 bit comes in? I'm sure it could handle it.

Edited May 26, 2014 by Grapefruit kush

[Raoul9753 166]

Variant X

 

http://forums.dayzgame.com/index.php?/topic/197504-death-timer/

[massacrorBKK 64]

"Hide body" option.

 

Simple, realist and effective.

[Khanarac 252]

If you want to prevent someone to loot his gear, go hide his corpse. If he happens to have friends around, why are they still alive? :P Kill them and hide their stuff.

 

This problem will solve itself with more dispersed spawnpoints.

Edited May 26, 2014 by Khanarac

[kOepi (DayZ) 35]

it looks like many here are missing the point of my suggestion.

 

let me clarify that to those read arguments:

 

1. hiding: I dont want the body to disappear automatically after it died!

2. destroying stuff: I dont want the stuff to be more destroyed than after the engagement.

3. it is ruined already: most of the stuff you can still use and its not about what is ruined, it is about what is not ruined.

 

I simply want to reestablish close-to-reality conditions.

it is not realistic to die, beam into a new body 500 meters away after 30 seconds,

then going after your old corpse which location maybe only you know about and then get it all back,

while you still know about the enemies positions and tactics.

 

@ khanarac

 

problems do not solve themself, people solve problems. hiding and new spawnpoints will not help to prevent people from going

after their corpse.

[Blern 74]

I'm off the server lockout idea. Lately I've been in an internet fog and finding good ping has been tough. I'd hate to be locked out for an hour with no good alternatives. 

 

Variant X it is- I say killed bodies become food for zombies- they gather at the body and consume it, leaving nothing but a blood smear (the same we see everywhere else?) Who knows where the loot and corpse is? Team members will have to battle the hoard of zombies if they want to save a team mate's loot. If you die above ground level, no zombies can get to the body, but they will be there at the door when you come back. 

[Khanarac 252]

I will quote myself from another topic with basicly the same message.

This all would'nt even be a problem if splitting ruined ammo just was not working. Then most of the time you couldnt fire any ammo, for most of the time its all ruined. Those long respawntimers are damn stupid, aswell as not being able to loot your corpse. Seems like you haven't thought about that concept for 20 seconds. Otherwise you would know that groups of players would be able to ignore that mechanic.

 

The solution is rather simple as people stated: 1. Spread out spawnpoints. 2. Ruined ammo should not be splittable.

 

Also the reason why people are focused in on berenzino is that there is no diffrent type of loot at the North West Airfield. That means there is no reason to go there, when you can just serverhop* and loot NorthEast. In the Mod we had unique loot at North West Airfield, making people travel there from every part of the map. Also we had crashsites with unique Loot. The crashsites we get in experimental still have the same loot as militarybuildings. 

 

Unfortunatly they ruined the possiblity to spawn at the southcoast because they made balota too valuable.

 

*the fact that there are countless of rather empty servers that allow for quick and save NEAF looting also contributes to the emptyness of the inland.

 

 

http://forums.dayzgame.com/index.php?/topic/196654-let-perma-death-be-perma-death/?p=1988279

 

And what's that  "people solve problems"? Are you serious? Where did you pick up that line to drop on me rather pointlessly. Why do you think the PvP-Hellhole Elektro is now deserted in favor of Berenzino? It's the Spawnpoints.

 

Please consider the effect of a HIDDEN corpse on a guy who runs back to it: He comes off empty handed. Also if you get me started with realism: Its also not realistic that I can learn through my death experience. Its not realistic that I can handle the weapons better the more practise I have with them over numerous lives, but it is the way it is. Everyone who kills someone knows exactly that it is likley that his victim knows how he has been killed. Therefore the murderer must change positions. It's rather simple.

 

/EDIT:
I will quickly destroy your Zombieidea Blern. 

That kind of mechanic would basicly put lone players even more into a disadvantage. Groups will have no issue in firing a magazine at your zombiehoard. Well, atleast if the zombies stay like they are now. It might be challenging if the Zombies would be more numerous and hit with more accuracy and damage.

Anyway, such a mechanic nullifies the reward for the one who shot the player. Making it a bad system. You gotta be able to shoot for loot. Imo the current rate at which items become ruined is way too high. Its not believable that a bullter to your trousers would ruin them, they would be patched up easily.

Oh, and zombies draging guns away from the corpse is not believable either imo.

 

Edit2: Im glad you abandoned your own long spawntimer Idea. You did not state that in your own topic yet, did you? If so, I did not notice yet.

Edited May 26, 2014 by Khanarac

[alexeistukov 272]

I'm off the server lockout idea. Lately I've been in an internet fog and finding good ping has been tough. I'd hate to be locked out for an hour with no good alternatives.

Variant X it is- I say killed bodies become food for zombies- they gather at the body and consume it, leaving nothing but a blood smear (the same we see everywhere else?) Who knows where the loot and corpse is? Team members will have to battle the hoard of zombies if they want to save a team mate's loot. If you die above ground level, no zombies can get to the body, but they will be there at the door when you come back.

Animals such as bears, wolves, and other meat eaters would be able to eat the body. Some animals can also drag the body off. Decomposers could possibly be added. Fungi, maggots, etc

[So Sexy 259]

"Hide body" option.

 

Simple, realist and effective.

 

There is such an option already.

[kOepi (DayZ) 35]

@khanarac

 

"where did you pick up that line ..."

- history

and I got another one: start reading books from the beginning.

let us not talk about what 100 other things are not realistic, when we want to talk

about one thing which is not realistic.

maybe I am stricter with you, because you are german. sorry for that.

 

new spawnpoints will not change anything. what elektro was, is now berezino.

even when you have one hundred spawnpoints over the whole map it will not

solve the problem of people trying to get to their corpses.

I just deliberates it to a certain degree.

 

you are saying "you cannot learn from death experience in real life".

what on earth are you talking about? the only way to adjust that is to uninstall the game

once you died.

for my problem there are many solutions, solutions which solve the problem

and not only supress them to a certain level.

 

Eine Lösung ist absolut, alles andere ist nur eine Veränderung.

Ein Gesetz, dass betrunken auto fahren verbietet ist keine lösung.

Eine Lösung ist ein Auto, dass niemanden mit sich betrunken fahren lässt. ( technisch )

[Blern 74]

 

I will quote myself from another topic with basicly the same message.

 

 

http://forums.dayzgame.com/index.php?/topic/196654-let-perma-death-be-perma-death/?p=1988279

 

And what's that  "people solve problems"? Are you serious? Where did you pick up that line to drop on me rather pointlessly. Why do you think the PvP-Hellhole Elektro is now deserted in favor of Berenzino? It's the Spawnpoints.

 

Please consider the effect of a HIDDEN corpse on a guy who runs back to it: He comes off empty handed. Also if you get me started with realism: Its also not realistic that I can learn through my death experience. Its not realistic that I can handle the weapons better the more practise I have with them over numerous lives, but it is the way it is. Everyone who kills someone knows exactly that it is likley that his victim knows how he has been killed. Therefore the murderer must change positions. It's rather simple.

 

/EDIT:

I will quickly destroy your Zombieidea Blern. 

That kind of mechanic would basicly put lone players even more into a disadvantage. Groups will have no issue in firing a magazine at your zombiehoard. Well, atleast if the zombies stay like they are now. It might be challenging if the Zombies would be more numerous and hit with more accuracy and damage.

Anyway, such a mechanic nullifies the reward for the one who shot the player. Making it a bad system. You gotta be able to shoot for loot. Imo the current rate at which items become ruined is way too high. Its not believable that a bullter to your trousers would ruin them, they would be patched up easily.

Oh, and zombies draging guns away from the corpse is not believable either imo.

 

Edit2: Im glad you abandoned your own long spawntimer Idea. You did not state that in your own topic yet, did you? If so, I did not notice yet.

 

The server lockout was not my own idea, but that's the debate I wanted to have. A solution to make the game a bit more realistic and immersive. To me, the fun of this game is the high risk, tense game play. Decisions have consequences. It forces strategy, tactics and is unforgiving. I want to help improve that. 

 

Having no consequence for death is foolish. You want game bonuses for longevity? Would that include respawning and recovering your gear for 300+ hours, or skillfully not dying for 300+ hours? 

 

Whatever the solution, DEATH HAS TO MEAN SOMETHING, or DayZ is just another video game. There are plenty of zombie shooters to choose from. There are plenty of MMORPG death matches too. You see player youtube videos of clans locking down an airfield or town, shooting all trespassers, sitting on a pile of loot while killed players just wander back into the area to re-equip and shoot some more. How is that real? How does that not get old after a few minutes? The lone player is already at a disadvantage. 

 

Creating disadvantages for all players forces creativity. I don't think fans of this game will leave it if the stakes are raised a bit. We should be making DayZ harder, not easier. 

[alexeistukov 272]

The server lockout was not my own idea, but that's the debate I wanted to have. A solution to make the game a bit more realistic and immersive. To me, the fun of this game is the high risk, tense game play. Decisions have consequences. It forces strategy, tactics and is unforgiving. I want to help improve that. 

 

Having no consequence for death is foolish. You want game bonuses for longevity? Would that include respawning and recovering your gear for 300+ hours, or skillfully not dying for 300+ hours? 

 

Whatever the solution, DEATH HAS TO MEAN SOMETHING, or DayZ is just another video game. There are plenty of zombie shooters to choose from. There are plenty of MMORPG death matches too. You see player youtube videos of clans locking down an airfield or town, shooting all trespassers, sitting on a pile of loot while killed players just wander back into the area to re-equip and shoot some more. How is that real? How does that not get old after a few minutes? The lone player is already at a disadvantage. 

 

Creating disadvantages for all players forces creativity. I don't think fans of this game will leave it if the stakes are raised a bit. We should be making DayZ harder, not easier.

Well said my friend... well said indeed.

[Khanarac 252]

Yesterday my group of 6 people was killed by a hacker. We went back to our corpses, and everything was gone. They used "hide body" on everyone. Leaving us with nothing at all. So we ran there in vain to recover nothing, and you call this "death with no consequence" ? What are you on about? How is that no consequence?

We might be forced to loot for up to an hour, or wander the cities with a doublerifle with 4 shots, and feed 6 people close to eachother. If we want to be equipped properly we need to run to the NWA, costing 20min to run there and 20min back. So how is that no consequence? Why are you continiously ignoring the "hide body" option as viable gear denial and never mention that a body disapears after 10-15min anyway. We don't need another mechanic. Let them run to their corpse, its not there anymore.

 

Also how can you guys really say anything about decomposing. Decomposing takes alot of time and wouldn't affect your plastic/metal weapons and tools anyway. The body automaticly hides itself after 10 or 15minutes. We don't need decomposing.

 

Yes as I said, if you read properly, I implied that the lone player is already at a disadvantage, because I said "That kind of mechanic would basicly put lone players even more into a disadvantage", meaning they are disadvantaged to begin with.

 

@kOepi:

"new spawnpoints will not change anything. what elektro was, is now berezino."

- as I said.

 

"even when you have one hundred spawnpoints over the whole map it will not

solve the problem of people trying to get to their corpses.

I just deliberates it to a certain degree."

-It is sufficient. After killing yourselves a couple times, it might be not worth going back to your corpse, because it autodespawns after 10 or 15min anyway (10min according to patchnotes). Also, as I repeated over and over again: HIDE BODY, It works. Bitches.

 

"you are saying "you cannot learn from death experience in real life".

what on earth are you talking about? the only way to adjust that is to uninstall the game

once you died."

-Yes you got my point. You said that once you died you knew the tactics of the ones who killed you and their positions. This is the same knowledge like learning how to properly handle weaponry or where to find guns. Its knowledge that you, the player, has instead of your character. And you'll just have to Dean with it. Your solutions are silly and not thought out, just as your german written argument about drinking and driving, which is utterly unrelated to the entire topic, you just meant to show me there what a solution to a problem is.

 

You suggest that a law against drunkdriving doesn't solve the problem, but only a car that denies a drunk driver access is. However, a law contributes to solving the problem. And if the technology for drunkdriver detection is not available, you have to imply other tools, such as adcampaigns raising awareness to the problem. Or are you suggesting that we should do nothing but impose the law to adress the problem? Of course you are not.

 

Also about this "problems don't solve themselves, people solve them". The reason I pointed that out is that this statement is so obvious that it is stupid to even state it. And you know, new dispersed spawnpoints layed out by bohemia staff and using "hide body" by players is "people solving a problem" at work.

[Blern 74]

Yesterday my group of 6 people was killed by a hacker. We went back to our corpses, and everything was gone. They used "hide body" on everyone. Leaving us with nothing at all. So we ran there in vain to recover nothing, and you call this "death with no consequence" ? What are you on about? How is that no consequence?

We might be forced to loot for up to an hour, or wander the cities with a doublerifle with 4 shots, and feed 6 people close to eachother. If we want to be equipped properly we need to run to the NWA, costing 20min to run there and 20min back. So how is that no consequence? Why are you continiously ignoring the "hide body" option as viable gear denial and never mention that a body disapears after 10-15min anyway. We don't need another mechanic. Let them run to their corpse, its not there anymore.

 

Also how can you guys really say anything about decomposing. Decomposing takes alot of time and wouldn't affect your plastic/metal weapons and tools anyway. The body automaticly hides itself after 10 or 15minutes. We don't need decomposing.

 

Yes as I said, if you read properly, I implied that the lone player is already at a disadvantage, because I said "That kind of mechanic would basicly put lone players even more into a disadvantage", meaning they are disadvantaged to begin with.

 

@kOepi:

"new spawnpoints will not change anything. what elektro was, is now berezino."

- as I said.

 

"even when you have one hundred spawnpoints over the whole map it will not

solve the problem of people trying to get to their corpses.

I just deliberates it to a certain degree."

-It is sufficient. After killing yourselves a couple times, it might be not worth going back to your corpse, because it autodespawns after 10 or 15min anyway (10min according to patchnotes). Also, as I repeated over and over again: HIDE BODY, It works. Bitches.

 

"you are saying "you cannot learn from death experience in real life".

what on earth are you talking about? the only way to adjust that is to uninstall the game

once you died."

-Yes you got my point. You said that once you died you knew the tactics of the ones who killed you and their positions. This is the same knowledge like learning how to properly handle weaponry or where to find guns. Its knowledge that you, the player, has instead of your character. And you'll just have to Dean with it. Your solutions are silly and not thought out, just as your german written argument about drinking and driving, which is utterly unrelated to the entire topic, you just meant to show me there what a solution to a problem is.

 

You suggest that a law against drunkdriving doesn't solve the problem, but only a car that denies a drunk driver access is. However, a law contributes to solving the problem. And if the technology for drunkdriver detection is not available, you have to imply other tools, such as adcampaigns raising awareness to the problem. Or are you suggesting that we should do nothing but impose the law to adress the problem? Of course you are not.

 

Also about this "problems don't solve themselves, people solve them". The reason I pointed that out is that this statement is so obvious that it is stupid to even state it. And you know, new dispersed spawnpoints layed out by bohemia staff and using "hide body" by players is "people solving a problem" at work.

I guess I'm kind of getting sick of your arrogance. You don't have to attack everyone that doesn't immediately agree with whatever glorious idea spills out of you. 

 

I am trying to find a solution to a problem that seems at odds with the spirit of this game, while you seem to want to tailor the game to your own playing style. I am not decided on any one solution as you think I am, but I think the discussion is good for the devs to see. 

 

You say 'hide body' is good enough. Again, not every player dies at the hands of another player who would hide the body. Not all bandits do that anyway, and thrill killers who are all geared up don't usually care what gear you have. 

 

You say you have to shoot for loot. Sounds like your playing style, not everyone's. A lot of players enjoy scavenging, not murdering players for a can of beans. You sound like a clan member that enjoys dominating a town for no reason other than to hoard loot and feel good about yourself for a time with your friends. As a lone player, if I can start picking off your clan one by one, that worries you because you no longer enjoy an advantage. 

 

You say spreading out the spawn points is agreeable. I think that's a step in the right direction but it doesn't solve the problem. Maybe pair that with a system that degrades starting health with every respawn on the same server during the same session? Disallowing sprint for 15 minutes after respawn? How about forcing a team member to have to carry your body to a spawn point so you can come back? Or to a hospital for reviving?

 

The point is there are lots of ways to improve this game. Stop treating everyone like they are idiots for not agreeing with your every word. DayZ players need some solidarity, not a chat room full of, "Hey what about this" followed by "No, that's stupid and so are you". 

[kOepi (DayZ) 35]

guys, please stop that whole-text-quoting and quote-in-quote-quoting. its annoying.

for me arrogance is alright, though insulting is not.

 

@ khanarac

 

hiding the body is like the police trying to solve the problem of drunken drivers. since this is a game it is made of technology and

therefore it is easy to implement a real solution and not just an option for situation that have the similar outcome ( hiding corpses ).

 

more and more dispersed spawnpoints will not solve the problem and as you said yourself "...it might be not worthy going back to your corpse".

it might always be worthy to kill yourself until you have a good spawnpoint and can reach your corpse in time. which is very unrealistic and easy to solve.

 

on the other hand your crap about knowledge about enemy positions, gear, tactics is a situational knowledge and cannot be easily solved.

because the game cannot burn that out of your brain! - no solution for this.

 

on the other other hand your crap about developing and familiarisation with weaponry and general the game from death to death, this unrealistic aspect

you cannot solve either, because it would need everybody to stop playing after they died. - no solution.

 

your arguments here are only about unrealistic aspects with no solveable whatsoever and I personally dont even understand why

you are comparing and talking about things that cannot be solved in a game.

additonally you keep on denying the technology to solve the problem in other ways. a real solution with 100% success and control ( besides hacking ).

 

"...However, a law contributes to solving the problem. ..."

-wrong. the same as you cannot be a little pregnant and the same as you cannot live in a dictatorship-democracy. those are absolute terms.

  no law in the world will solve a problem, not even when you punish it with 50 live sentences and execution on the electric chair.

  politically spoken: a law is the cheap and profit bringing way to guide people and to gain money out of it while misbehaving.

 

"Or are you suggesting that we should do nothing but impose the law to adress the problem?"

 

I would suggest, if it would be up to me, to let everybody know about the laws and the reasons behind it, but since it is a law

it wouldnt be efficient to have a policeman for every resident to make sure residents obey the law.

even that wouldnt be a well enforced law and there is still a percentage of it not to work out. ergo no solution.

 

the state shouldnt make money out of people misbehaving, the same as dayz players shouldnt gain benefits

out of luckily running to their body and get all their stuff back within 10 minutes and being ready to fight the enemy with

being aware of the current enemy situation.

 

I am done.