Survival as an End-Goal (Lowering KoS too)

[NoWalls4Zed 0]

Hello, I recently made this account to drop a suggestion.

Let me start by acknowledging that clearly DayZ is about survival. This suggestion just aims at delivering some kind of "end-goal" for survivors.

After a survivor(s) has assembled the right radio within the world, they can call for a rescue helicopter or something else entirely. Bandits can try to crash the rescue party if they choose. If the player(s) is successfully rescued by the AI rescue force, they get to choose any one thing from their current inventory as an heirloom - accessible to their default character at spawn. The character "retires" from surviving, roll credits, return to main-menu. (Sort of like dying)

This effects everyone equally, it won't stop KoS. However, shoot&loot is less important to experienced survivalists because they can just spawn with some gear as a bandit, vigilante, medic, ex-soldier, biker, etc. Whatever they choose. It gives them access to a lot of fun in the "end-game" because they get to be an influential part of the world sooner. Really, you are just punished less for playing how you want to once you've earned it by surviving.

I've got more ideas that go along with this... but I just want to get the core idea across, hopefully I've done that. Some of us definitely want something like this to work toward.

Edited May 20, 2014 by NoWalls4Zed

[The Lone Survivor 64]

Hello, I recently made this account to drop a suggestion.

Let me start by acknowledging that clearly DayZ is about survival. This suggestion just aims at delivering some kind of "end-goal" for survivors.

After a survivor(s) has found the right radio, they can call for a rescue helicopter or something else entirely. Bandits can try to crash the rescue party if they choose. If the player(s) is successfully rescued by the AI rescue force, they get to choose any one thing from their current inventory as an heirloom - accessible to their default character at spawn. The character "retires" from surviving, roll credits, return to main-menu. (Sort of like dying)

This effects everyone equally, it won't stop KoS. However, shoot&loot is less important to experienced survivalists because they can just spawn with some gear as a bandit, vigilante, medic, ex-soldier, biker, etc. Whatever they choose. It gives them access to a lot of fun in the "end-game" because they get to be an influential part of the world sooner. Really, you are just punished less for playing how you want to once you've earned it by surviving.

I've got more ideas that go along with this... but I just want to get the core idea across, hopefully I've done that. Some of us definitely want something like this to work toward.

 

so your saying put a "The End" in this endless game? not even a Ender dragon?

[AnyoneInCherno? 187]

This games "end" is your own death. You do not "win" in DayZ. You never can. That's what its all about, you make your own goals, your own endgame.

Edited May 20, 2014 by AnyoneInCherno?

[pale1776 375]

Well this IS the most logical kos refuction post. Buuut, some douch will.come in here.like "I wuz triyn 2 do a 360noovtoobquickscope on sum baimbay as his hely cum in 2 get him. But he fli off b4 eye git of mah 70th shot in mah 30 ruound mahg. Dis is unfare yo, qit prohibitionin mah plasile #prothuglife"

But maybe you can find someone to help you.make this a mod in full release?

[nexventor 429]

This games "end" is your own death. You do not "win" in DayZ. You never can. That's what its all about, you make your own goals, your own endgame.

 

Just in case OP missed it 

[DemonGroover 8836]

I can't ever see AI being added to DayZ..they just don't fit the feel of the game.

 

Some sort of end game should be possible but i don' think a "The End " screen is necessary. 

 

For me the end game would be surviving for as long as possible, building a base and having a Huey parked on top.

[TheFearOz 9]

so far the only AI run after you and ask politely to ear your brains.

[NoWalls4Zed 0]

Thanks for sharing your thoughts with me despite my sporadic arrival.

Let me clarify that by "end-goal" I mean ending the "life" yourself - it's optional. The game never ends.

The result is the same as dying other than unlocking deeper personalization for your default character. Heirlooms (or something similar) would drastically lower the incentive for players to continuously KoS. The end-goal also adds a reward for players to join forces outside of their personal relationships and gives us material to simulate a generic evacuation. Or an ambush, because bandits would still exist and would want to capture the helicopter for their own goals.

AI in the helicopter could defend their location if attacked - or just fly the helicopter in and out. Generally there wouldn't need to be much AI added to the game.

The game is a sandbox and this is a way to implement more toys - simultaneously it encourages a richer experience with progression. Evacuation is a big part of the zombie-apocalypse scenario after-all.

How else could aircraft being in the world even make any sense?
 

 

For me the end game would be surviving for as long as possible, building a base and having a Huey parked on top.

I like where this is going  ;)

Edited May 20, 2014 by NoWalls4Zed

[Raoul9753 166]

When they really go to player made objects, then a "goal" could become to make a survivor camp.

 

Thats why I think Tents should be implimented and players should be able to build Walls, Watchtowers etc.

Imagine you take a deroute through the forest and get to a camp set up by other players (And most likely get shot on sight, but still^^)

[phL (DayZ) 63]

i'd like to see "survive as long as possible" as the main goal in dayz but that's currently not possible. atm you have to seek action and risk your life illogicaly which is for me the main flaw of dayz(mod) gameplay...

a certain ending is something i do not want, because end of game should be your death which is also not true atm because of hoarding and running back to your body.

 

 

/oops SA section. but the hoarding will be introduced eventually.

Edited May 20, 2014 by phL

[enforcer1975 1111]

This effects everyone equally, it won't stop KoS. However, shoot&loot is less important to experienced survivalists because they can just spawn with some gear as a bandit, vigilante, medic, ex-soldier, biker, etc. Whatever they choose. It gives them access to a lot of fun in the "end-game" because they get to be an influential part of the world sooner. Really, you are just punished less for playing how you want to once you've earned it by surviving.

 

LOL sounds like "Epoch, full gear at spawn, tank, heli and plane at starting base sponsored by admin for 10€ a month" to me...minus the subscription fee...

 

Nah.. :emptycan:  :emptycan:  >:(  <_<

Edited May 20, 2014 by Enforcer

[eleventhavenue 204]

I don't get in what way getting free stuff at spawn would stop KOS. You say that it removes incentive. I don't think so.

I don't really think there is a good reason to implement this at all and I also do think that it will have a negative effect on the game.

[alexeistukov 272]

Why the hell do people want to lower Kill On Sight?  There is absolutely no problem with it.  What? Do you think people in a REAL survival situation are going to walk up to you everytime and ask to shake your hand?  I am a kill on sighter in some situations for many reasons that i will state if you ask.  People that complain about KOS are the ones who were just either A. Killed by them when they got their character completely set up, or B. Frustrated with the early realism.  We all Kill On Sight, and nobody here is safe from saying that they have not done that because this is Dayz, a zombie survival game where killing is the dominant outcome of almost every situation with other players.  If KOS was taken away from the Dayz atmosphere or a penalty was added for KOS, then we would lose a MAJOR realism factor that has been with the game since the beginning.  Sorry if that sounded like a rant.. im dealing with other real life problems right now as well..  God Bless Everyone..

[Baklavah 12]

Why the hell do people want to lower Kill On Sight?  There is absolutely no problem with it.  What? Do you think people in a REAL survival situation are going to walk up to you everytime and ask to shake your hand?  I am a kill on sighter in some situations for many reasons that i will state if you ask.  People that complain about KOS are the ones who were just either A. Killed by them when they got their character completely set up, or B. Frustrated with the early realism.  We all Kill On Sight, and nobody here is safe from saying that they have not done that because this is Dayz, a zombie survival game where killing is the dominant outcome of almost every situation with other players.  If KOS was taken away from the Dayz atmosphere or a penalty was added for KOS, then we would lose a MAJOR realism factor that has been with the game since the beginning.  Sorry if that sounded like a rant.. im dealing with other real life problems right now as well..  God Bless Everyone..

Your argument is not entirely valid. I'm pretty sure in a REAL survival situation people aren't just going to shoot at the first person that moves. Most certainly guns will be drawn, and most certainly there will be some way to ascertain whether or not someone is friendly. Some people who have what we normal people call "a soul" will provide shelter for a night, especially for groups with children. I'm pretty fucking certain no one's going to shoot a child on sight because that's what they'd do in DayZ. That is a retarded argument.

 

There is no warrant for KoS, it just proves who the closet-psychopaths are. Fine by me. Bandits are to be expected, but there's a limit to being an asshole. Not everyone is a soulless murderer.

[alexeistukov 272]

Your argument is not entirely valid. I'm pretty sure in a REAL survival situation people aren't just going to shoot at the first person that moves. Most certainly guns will be drawn, and most certainly there will be some way to ascertain whether or not someone is friendly. Some people who have what we normal people call "a soul" will provide shelter for a night, especially for groups with children. I'm pretty fucking certain no one's going to shoot a child on sight because that's what they'd do in DayZ. That is a retarded argument.

There is no warrant for KoS, it just proves who the closet-psychopaths are. Fine by me. Bandits are to be expected, but there's a limit to being an asshole. Not everyone is a soulless murderer.

You would be surprised actually to see what peoplwould become in a world like that. I understand where you are coming from with children, but I am talking about adults because isn't the target audience for this game young adults and adults? I do not think 7 year holds are able to play a game as difficult as this. You call my argument retarded even though I didn't state anything to radical. Everyone has a soul, but others can go insane in situations like this. This game is also meant to be a role playing game since you assume the role of a survivor in a wasteland full of horrors. I bid you a good day and God Bless

[Baklavah 12]

You would be surprised actually to see what peoplwould become in a world like that. I understand where you are coming from with children, but I am talking about adults because isn't the target audience for this game young adults and adults? I do not think 7 year holds are able to play a game as difficult as this. You call my argument retarded even though I didn't state anything to radical. Everyone has a soul, but others can go insane in situations like this. This game is also meant to be a role playing game since you assume the role of a survivor in a wasteland full of horrors. I bid you a good day and God Bless

My apologies if I sounded snappy and harbouring resentment... I had just finished participating in an argument with stupid people who do not understand the meaning of "player interaction". I understand where you're coming from. The problem is that while some people are taking on the role of a "survivor", others are taking on the role of a "Psychotic Pseudo-Nazi with a sniper rifle, an itchy trigger finger and boredom". That takes away the ENTIRE point of the game. There are already plenty of horrors. Zombies are no longer the pushovers that they were. The fact that fresh spawns are being killed when they have nothing of value proves no point except that the KoS CoD Kiddies are cowards, and killing someone and then just letting their gear despawn is not only stupid and arrogant, it's disrespectful.

 

Again, my apologies for the aggression... I'm just tired of all the stupidity...

[Raoul9753 166]

My apologies if I sounded snappy and harbouring resentment... I had just finished participating in an argument with stupid people who do not understand the meaning of "player interaction". I understand where you're coming from. The problem is that while some people are taking on the role of a "survivor", others are taking on the role of a "Psychotic Pseudo-Nazi with a sniper rifle, an itchy trigger finger and boredom". That takes away the ENTIRE point of the game. There are already plenty of horrors. Zombies are no longer the pushovers that they were. The fact that fresh spawns are being killed when they have nothing of value proves no point except that the KoS CoD Kiddies are cowards, and killing someone and then just letting their gear despawn is not only stupid and arrogant, it's disrespectful.

 

Again, my apologies for the aggression... I'm just tired of all the stupidity...

 

 

Dude, this "Psychotic Pseudo-Nazi with a sniper rifle, an itchy trigger finger and boredom" is exactly what some people would do the second they dont have to fear any punishment any more.

Belive me, when an Apocalypse would happen in our world, I guarantee you that lie 60-70% of all people would go kill crazy within a week... or at least would kill for their own benefit without hesitation.

[NoWalls4Zed 0]

Please understand, getting "free stuff" at spawn doesn't stop KoS. In fact, it will help someone do it more often if they choose to. This addition reinforces the current formula by reducing the exorbitant incentive to shoot&loot as compensation for dying, since it's a deficit, thus gradually increasing accessibility to play the game how you want.

Some people want the incentive for KoS lower because it encourages a richer experience.

Heirloom gear makes respawning better for all long-standing players. Their personal incentive to KoS is lowered, because they can eventually spawn with gear (no not full gear, that would destroy the game). This is also a more realistic scenario, I mean civilians can own guns and stuff pre-apocalypse right?

Let's talk about reality, the only time I've been killed by a gun, so far, is when I didn't have one. A fact. This is also alpha and I've died from glitches many times now. Think about how this impacts the psyche.

I must say, as this is happening to me, now I see it's simply more rewarding to hide and KoS for loot. After all, there really is nothing in-game to work towards except deathmatch.

Also if you're going to state your opinion, please provide your reasoning for the sake of improving this game...

P.S. I haven't KoS yet, we don't all play for that.

Edited May 20, 2014 by NoWalls4Zed

[Testy69 12]

This effects everyone equally, it won't stop KoS. However, shoot&loot is less important to experienced survivalists because they can just spawn with some gear as a bandit, vigilante, medic, ex-soldier, biker, etc.

 

Biker? You mean a f*g?

[NoWalls4Zed 0]

Whatever floats your boat!  :lol:  :)  

The point is, DayZ clearly would benefit from deeper personalization of the default character, sensible incorporation of aircraft (at least), and something beyond loot to work towards/against in the game-environment (that encourages team-work especially). The suggestion I've shared covers all three in a profound way and isn't complex by standards of today (I'm sure AI already fly helicopters in ARMA). I understand the argument about dying on the island vs. surviving the island, but it's a limitation that obviously makes the game worse for reasons already explained.

I can't say I won't enjoy it for now though  ;)

[mithrawndo 166]

I see no harm in a "Game Over" mechanic. Nor do I see a serious issue with the idea of an "Heirloom" system, provided the only objects that can be selected are inconsequential, cosmetic items. Provided you made it to the evacuation point, you could select an heirloom item with some restrictions:

 

• No weapons or accessories
• No clothes that expand inventory space
• No items that expand inventory space
• No food or water
• No medical supplies

Basically nothing that could give you an advantage in a future life. I'm happy with heirloom equipment that can be left to additional characters... as long as they are limited to shoes*

 

*Or 2 slot pants and gloves

[energeticsheep 95]

I don't get in what way getting free stuff at spawn would stop KOS. You say that it removes incentive. I don't think so.

I don't really think there is a good reason to implement this at all and I also do think that it will have a negative effect on the game.

 

I agree.

Surely if you had gear as a new spawn, someone is most likely going to want that gear if they don't have it. In my opinion it increases KoS.

[NoWalls4Zed 0]

I see no harm in a "Game Over" mechanic. Nor do I see a serious issue with the idea of an "Heirloom" system, provided the only objects that can be selected are inconsequential, cosmetic items. Provided you made it to the evacuation point, you could select an heirloom item with some restrictions:

 

• No weapons or accessories
• No clothes that expand inventory space
• No items that expand inventory space
• No food or water
• No medical supplies

Basically nothing that could give you an advantage in a future life. I'm happy with heirloom equipment that can be left to additional characters... as long as they are limited to shoes*

 

*Or 2 slot pants and gloves

 

I wonder whether you think the idea overall would improve the gameplay.

I'm pretty sure I understand your position. If you think about it though, us players already have the advantage of a previous life in-game, more so the experience it offered. Like finding the best loot and remembering where it spawns, or where to go in general. As you can see, we already get an edge when we respawn. Besides that, it isn't like a typical MMORPG where better gear means better stats means you always win.

I'm tempted to go into why I think your idea inhibits a true sense of realism too, but I think it's obvious and I touched on my thoughts about realism already. However I will argue that, the limitations imposed in your idea, are for no good reason!

Guns need ammunition so what's the advantage to having an empty gun? Well you don't have to find one and maybe it's valuable, that's about it. How about a handgun with a loaded magazine in it? You still need to go looking for ammo, food, and trouble will surely follow. You can die just as easily as before, so really, what's the advantage? In comparison to how the game is played, this really only reinforces it as a fun experience.

Here's my own rough little list of what I think works nicely:

Allowed:

• Crossbow, 1911, CR75, FNX45, Blaze 95, Sporter 22, IZH-42 and sawed-off variant (ammo in-gun only inherited separately)
• Most melee weapons (see exceptions below)
• Medkit (contains 1 bandage on spawn)
• Clothing and accessories

Prohibited:

• Weapon attachments (too much work)
• Amphibia S, Magnum, P1, M4A1, Mosin, SKS
• Firefighter axe, all bayonets
• Security Case, Ammo Box
• Expendable resources (food, water, ammunition etc.)

Lastly, you can only have 1 of any type of item on spawn! (so 1 weapon, 1 shirt, 1 pair of glasses, 1 hat etc.)


The player would have to spend hundreds of hours earning all of this gear in dynamic games by grinding evacuation missions. The default gear suffices, but the current game-design lends itself to being tedious for anyone that ends up dying a few times - possibly DayZ's biggest flaw to a lot of people.

This suggestion breaks down to two parts. Half is about giving us engaging content that embellishes more realism in the game world. The other half is about accessibility to the game world despite dying. DayZ would benefit from both in some fashion.

 

I agree.

Surely if you had gear as a new spawn, someone is most likely going to want that gear if they don't have it. In my opinion it increases KoS.

I think you're missing the point. To put it clearly - if someone wants your gear, then your gear means you are someone's target. DayZ is evidence of that... Now with heirloom gear - if someone restarts a game with gear they want from you, someone will want less gear from you.

Right now, I'm constantly shot at, while unarmed, on sight, at spawns... because it's fun to a lot of people to kill players and zombies with their guns. Gun access = more fun for a player then. Heirloom guns = more risk when they try to KoS too.

The only gain for KoS would be someone having access to a gun sooner when they die, it's still a choice and their incentive is still lower. Which I already explained.

Thanks for sharing your opinion, it's not something I can consider any further though without reasoning. The question left unanswered is why...

Edited May 23, 2014 by NoWalls4Zed

[zudo_1337 2]

In my opinion for lowering KoS the environment would have to be more inhospitable. For example a lot more zombies. Like hoards of them. That way the survivors would have to bind together so survive. As for the end game I do not see the "getting rescued" option. The world has gone to hell and there is no rescue. The only option is to survive as long as you can.

[Blern 74]

Hello, I recently made this account to drop a suggestion.

Let me start by acknowledging that clearly DayZ is about survival. This suggestion just aims at delivering some kind of "end-goal" for survivors.

After a survivor(s) has assembled the right radio within the world, they can call for a rescue helicopter or something else entirely. Bandits can try to crash the rescue party if they choose. If the player(s) is successfully rescued by the AI rescue force, they get to choose any one thing from their current inventory as an heirloom - accessible to their default character at spawn. The character "retires" from surviving, roll credits, return to main-menu. (Sort of like dying)

This effects everyone equally, it won't stop KoS. However, shoot&loot is less important to experienced survivalists because they can just spawn with some gear as a bandit, vigilante, medic, ex-soldier, biker, etc. Whatever they choose. It gives them access to a lot of fun in the "end-game" because they get to be an influential part of the world sooner. Really, you are just punished less for playing how you want to once you've earned it by surviving.

I've got more ideas that go along with this... but I just want to get the core idea across, hopefully I've done that. Some of us definitely want something like this to work toward.

No rescue. No endgame. Only life or death. 

 

Remember DayZ is more simulator than video game. It needs an ending as much as it needs points, scores, levels, boss fights, background music and a snappy saturday morning cartoon to help sell plastic action figures. 

 

There is no escape from the apocalypse.