Please, say NO to helicopters.

[victusmortuus 1074]

Helicopters will be owned by the clan who runs the server plain and simple.  This was prevalent in the mod and it will happen again in the SA.  I personally don't think they actually fit in the setting at all.  

 

Then why don't you band together with other people and take them down, choppers aren't exactly hard to take down. 

[TheWalrusNet 6]

Then why don't you band together with other people and take them down, choppers aren't exactly hard to take down. 

This. This is how they can be balanced, if the clan controls a chopper that can be damaged by small arms fire, it can easily be taken down, they'll be forced to use it in low-traffic areas and even then they'll need an experienced pilot in order to get them in and out quickly without being shot down. Choppers were the most exciting part of the mod for me, (not flying them, the tention of having one overhead looking for you, wondering if your gun was strong enough to take it down) and it seems unfair to remove the whole feature without even TRYING to balance it, just because some people got killed by a helicopter a few times in the mod. probably a fraction of the amount they were killed by players with normal guns. or should we remove those because the fact that they kill people can never be balanced?

[Katana67 2907]

This. This is how they can be balanced, if the clan controls a chopper that can be damaged by small arms fire, it can easily be taken down, they'll be forced to use it in low-traffic areas and even then they'll need an experienced pilot in order to get them in and out quickly without being shot down. Choppers were the most exciting part of the mod for me, (not flying them, the tention of having one overhead looking for you, wondering if your gun was strong enough to take it down) and it seems unfair to remove the whole feature without even TRYING to balance it, just because some people got killed by a helicopter a few times in the mod. probably a fraction of the amount they were killed by players with normal guns. or should we remove those because the fact that they kill people can never be balanced?

 

Well, in fairness, folks who don't want helicopters (at least on this thread and my own on the subject) aren't citing their lethality in their being "overpowered."

 

I rarely got killed by them, and when I did, it was usually my own damn fault.

 

They mainly cite the visibility gained in flying a helicopter, therefore making it unduly easy (in their opinion) to spot tents, structures, and players. I've listed many a reason why this isn't perpetually the case, as in the mod the visibility was dictated by a number of shortcomings and factors (i.e. a lack of camouflage for vehicles/tents, a highly flexible third-person view whilst flying, and ultra-flexible graphics settings which have detrimental effects on the ground and the air, amongst others).

 

Likewise, they also cite the ability to move from A to B rapidly in a helicopter as being inherently, and irrevocably unacceptable. And the ability to deploy troops rapidly (mostly via parachuting, which could also be remedied by not giving every player the innate ability to parachute, and instead make a parachute a looted/crafted item).

 

All of these "pros" can be balanced, like you say, via rarity and difficulty of use. Never mind the other issues that I listed above, by remedying those (mostly to do with making objects on the ground harder to spot from the air) I think helicopters could be a great addition to SA.

 

I have no issue with someone, or a group, being able to fly around the map if they've put enough time/effort/risk into getting their chopper up and running... and are accepting of the risks of operation anyhow (i.e. other players, fuel requirements, etc.) The issue for me, is that in the mod, it was too easy to find, repair, and operate a helicopter... on top of the other issues listed.

Edited May 26, 2014 by Katana67

[So Sexy 259]

Mi-24 would be perfect for dayz. ;D

Edited May 26, 2014 by So Sexy

[gibonez 3633]

Mi-24 would be perfect or dayz. ;D

 

Such an iconic and innovative weapon especially when I was first made.

 

 

 

Gun ship, troop transport all in one.

[So Sexy 259]

Such an iconic and innovative weapon especially when I was first made.

 

 

 

Gun ship, troop transport all in one.

 

And its super resistant to small-medium firearms (just like the ones we run with) , and it looks damn sexy too.

[TheWalrusNet 6]

Well, in fairness, folks who don't want helicopters (at least on this thread and my own on the subject) aren't citing their lethality in their being "overpowered."

 

I rarely got killed by them, and when I did, it was usually my own damn fault.

 

They mainly cite the visibility gained in flying a helicopter, therefore making it unduly easy (in their opinion) to spot tents, structures, and players. I've listed many a reason why this isn't perpetually the case, as in the mod the visibility was dictated by a number of shortcomings and factors (i.e. a lack of camouflage for vehicles/tents, a highly flexible third-person view whilst flying, and ultra-flexible graphics settings which have detrimental effects on the ground and the air, amongst others).

 

Likewise, they also cite the ability to move from A to B rapidly in a helicopter as being inherently, and irrevocably unacceptable. And the ability to deploy troops rapidly (mostly via parachuting, which could also be remedied by not giving every player the innate ability to parachute, and instead make a parachute a looted/crafted item).

 

All of these "pros" can be balanced, like you say, via rarity and difficulty of use. Never mind the other issues that I listed above, by remedying those (mostly to do with making objects on the ground harder to spot from the air) I think helicopters could be a great addition to SA.

 

I have no issue with someone, or a group, being able to fly around the map if they've put enough time/effort/risk into getting their chopper up and running... and are accepting of the risks of operation anyhow (i.e. other players, fuel requirements, etc.) The issue for me, is that in the mod, it was too easy to find, repair, and operate a helicopter... on top of the other issues listed.

True, and i agree entirely with what you said, that if it's difficult to get a chopper then moving from A to B quickly isn't so bad. All of these issues can be balanced, and a complete removal of the feature isn't necessary when something can be done to remedy these problems, for instance high fuel usage, and perhaps making the only way to get the sheer amount of fuel needed would be to go into high traffic areas (higher spawn rate in cities/military bases perhaps?) making using the helicopter at all very high risk, and with limited areas to refuel, perhaps that would even restrict them to flying in a certain radius around the closest refuel point they spawn near, dramatically increased fuel usage isn't exactly realism but it's a good compromise for balance

[victusmortuus 1074]

this anti-mod sentiment is really annoying.

 

The mod had it's shortfalls. zombies hit thru walls at times. hackers were an issue. KoS was always a thing. But you know what? this thing evenyone heeps thumbing thier nose to "Arma With zombies" WENT VIRAL. People Loved it. and when SA was announced we hopped for a refined version with more of the same! Why cant we have LMGs? they worked fine in the MOD. Why cant we have realisitc weapon handling instead of crappy diserpsion and atachments? did fine in the MOD.

 

More and more the SA seems to want to strip all the FUN out of what we played, and instead give us Dean's forest survival sim 2014. taking away everything and making people hate to risk anything wont stop KoSing. if anything it makes trolling others by ruining thier day more rewarding for those who view it that way.

 

At the rate thier going they migh as well delete the entire map except for skalitsy island and make it L4D: Mele only addition.

 

DayZ is ARMA II WITH ZOMBIES. THAT'S HOW IT SHOULD STAY. THATS WHAT MOD VETS FELL IN LOVE IWTH.

 

I like this post too much to not quote it.

[Chaingunfighter 917]

And its super resistant to small-medium firearms (just like the ones we run with) , and it looks damn sexy too.

That's the sole reason I don't want an Mi-24 or some sort of gunship, because it has essentially no counter but Strelas and Stingers, which would probably be super rare. The furthest I would honestly take helicopters is Mi-18s with PKMs or Hueys with M240s/M60s. Not to say playing some of the various DayZ mods where there are helicopters and jets you can go up against isn't incredibly fun, but I think gunships and fighter jets may be taking it a little too far.

Besides, isn't flying in a Huey unloading an M60 while blasting Fortunate Son over a loud speaker intimidating enough :)?

[Katana67 2907]

Besides, isn't flying in a Huey unloading an M60 while blasting Fortunate Son over a loud speaker intimidating enough :)?

 

One, yes... all the yes in the world, they need to add loudspeakers to helicopters.

 

Two, anyone blaring "Fortunate Son" or "Die Walkure" will be shot down and mercilessly torn apart for being so god damn cliche. :D

[victusmortuus 1074]

One, yes... all the yes in the world, they need to add loudspeakers to helicopters.

 

Two, anyone blaring "Fortunate Son" or "Die Walkure" will be shot down and mercilessly torn apart for being so god damn cliche. :D

 

 

We had a great Nam playlist when we played the mod :P

[Chaingunfighter 917]

One, yes... all the yes in the world, they need to add loudspeakers to helicopters.

 

Two, anyone blaring "Fortunate Son" or "Die Walkure" will be shot down and mercilessly torn apart for being so god damn cliche. :D

Regardless of being cliche, I like the music :)

 

If you really want cliche, try "Ride of the Valkyries". Can't get more 'overused helicopter music' than that.

[Katana67 2907]

Regardless of being cliche, I like the music :)

 

If you really want cliche, try "Ride of the Valkyries". Can't get more 'overused helicopter music' than that.

 

That's just the beginning bit of "Die Walküre."

 

Actually I stand corrected, "Ride of the Valkyries" is in Act III of Die Walkure.

Edited May 26, 2014 by Katana67

[sloasdaylight 129]

Satchel Charges, Grenades (improvised or not), and other destructive methods will destroy helicopters when they're on the ground. If your clan doesn't have one, figure out where the other group has theirs and blow it up. I must have destroyed 2-3 helos, and dozens of vehicles during my tenure in the Mod by shooting their main rotor assembly, shooting out tires, repeatedly ramming vehicles into one another, driving over tents, blah blah blah, all while they were on the ground. 

 

On one occasion, I found the camp of my clan's main rivals on our server, loaded up as much as I could into their Ural, drove it back to our base, took a bike back to theirs, then rammed their helo with their Gaz and drove over all their tents repeatedly to destroy whatever was left that I couldn't take. Then for good measure I lit a fire, threw a timed satchel charge in their helo, and booked it out of there.

 

You guys act like once someone has a helo there is absolutely nothing that can be done about it, and you might as well lay down and die. Be proactive and blow the motherfucker up. It's not terribly difficult to figure out where someone has a helo after a while (need to have a bit of open space to land/take off safely, constant helo activity in 1 quadrant of the map due to take offs and landings, etc.), and then it's just a matter of finding it and wrecking the thing when the people who own it aren't around.

 

Now admin hoarding and other sort of shit like that is a different matter, and that ruins servers regardless of what gear/equipment they have.

Edited May 27, 2014 by sloasdaylight

[Karmaterror 982]

One, yes... all the yes in the world, they need to add loudspeakers to helicopters.

 

Two, anyone blaring "Fortunate Son" or "Die Walkure" will be shot down and mercilessly torn apart for being so god damn cliche. :D

 

I errr.....may have been guilty of this in the mod.... :)

 

....Only on direct though lol

[Raoul9753 166]

Plus, it totaly ruins all base building we might get in the future. Whats the point of building a camp in the woods, when people can just scout the woods with a helicopter and lay waste to your base before you can say "Fuck why did they ruin the game with helicopters?"

[real meatshield 424]

Guess you didnt hide it well enough?

[brumey 116]

i want more "events" like helicopter crashes! like a train or something that is driven by a crazy npc. or green mountain sending out signals or something. 

 

but i really dont need helis! i can go fly helis in altis

Edited May 27, 2014 by brumey

[sloasdaylight 129]

Plus, it totaly ruins all base building we might get in the future. Whats the point of building a camp in the woods, when people can just scout the woods with a helicopter and lay waste to your base before you can say "Fuck why did they ruin the game with helicopters?"

 

Build decoy bases, spread your gear/loot across multiple bases at different locations, put tents directly under trees. We did all that stuff back in the mod and we didn't have problems with our tent city being found. If one of your bases is compromised, you don't lose everything. We had a central base with a little bit of everything that served as a rally point, but our Arms Cache was somewhere else, as were our food and medical supplies. Likewise with our vehicles.

Right now most of the concerns I hear about helicopters are coming from people who either didn't think hard enough about how to avoid base detection in the mod, or from people who played with people who didn't think hard enough about how to avoid base detection in the mod, or people who refused to take an active role in the power struggle on their server in the mod.

 

Helicopters are not unbeatable God machines.

[Caboose187 (DayZ) 3036]

Build decoy bases, spread your gear/loot across multiple bases at different locations, put tents directly under trees. We did all that stuff back in the mod and we didn't have problems with our tent city being found. If one of your bases is compromised, you don't lose everything. We had a central base with a little bit of everything that served as a rally point, but our Arms Cache was somewhere else, as were our food and medical supplies. Likewise with our vehicles.

Right now most of the concerns I hear about helicopters are coming from people who either didn't think hard enough about how to avoid base detection in the mod, or from people who played with people who didn't think hard enough about how to avoid base detection in the mod, or people who refused to take an active role in the power struggle on their server in the mod.

 

Helicopters are not unbeatable God machines.

You keep saying "we".  Try doing that as an "I" went and did all this.  Ya, clan vs clan warfare this might work but there are more solo survivors who cannot compete against clans who run the server.  

[xenology 61]

was there anti-air in the mod? stingers or whatever?

No.......Well I guess but it was easy to shoot em out too

[Karmaterror 982]

No.......Well I guess but it was easy to shoot em out too

 

There was an rpg in the mod......the American one....damit cant remember the name.

 

Was an incredibly rare spawn at the barracks, I actually save up a few rounds and had the launcher at one point....went to nwa and tried to shoot down a heli with it....missed and got sprayed by door gun before I could get behind a tree lol

 

It took your backpack slot so was a good trade off. The missiles were 3 (or was it 6) inv slots each so it was a really dedicated role if you wanted to use it :)

[sloasdaylight 129]

You keep saying "we".  Try doing that as an "I" went and did all this.  Ya, clan vs clan warfare this might work but there are more solo survivors who cannot compete against clans who run the server.  

 

And? The game rewards cooperative team play and organization. Besides, as someone playing as a lone-wolf, the need for a base, or at least a large one with separate caches, is virtually nil, unless you're a hoarder the likes of Smaug, or Glaurung. Everything a solo player needs can be kept on the player or in a single camping tent, which can be strategically placed under a tree to conceal it as much as possible from both the air and the ground. If you want to expand beyond that and create your own personal fiefdom, then feel free, but there's extra risk associated with the extra benefit, just like grouping up.

 

Being in a group isn't without it's dangers either. You're easier to spot and tail when you go back to base. Larger groups need more food and water, and more/larger vehicles to transport their members. The risk of friendly fire increases exponentially the more people you have in a group, especially if you don't have a viable way to distinguish each other (UN helmets, only black helmets, blue boonies, etc.) A solo player can get by with a single tent and a bike, hidden a few dozen meters away against a shed, or against a tree or some such.

 

Edit: Plus, as a lone-wolf style player (a playstyle I enjoy quite a lot), you have the freedom to move from one location to the next easily and quickly, and it almost is a disservice to try to establish a set location and tie yourself too it too strongly. You don't have teammates with whom you're going to be meeting up often, and there's no/limited need for a rally point of sorts. Really the only reason one would want to have a tent/base (that I can see) as a lonewolf is to facilitate re-gearing in the event of death, and in that case, like I said, a single camping tent (provided it has enough inventory space) should suffice.

Edited May 27, 2014 by sloasdaylight

[cels 43]

I always found helicopters to be one of the easiest trails to follow that eventually led to finding someones base camp. The bus takes first place though, such a nice dust path.

Quite the fun and intense times :)

Edited May 27, 2014 by cels

[St. Jimmy 1631]

Right now most of the concerns I hear about helicopters are coming from people who either didn't think hard enough about how to avoid base detection in the mod, or from people who played with people who didn't think hard enough about how to avoid base detection in the mod, or people who refused to take an active role in the power struggle on their server in the mod.

 

Helicopters are not unbeatable God machines.

You missed one of the biggest group. The 3PP players. You can't see that well in first person from a helicopter. In 1PP the helicopter isn't too OP against hideouts.