Please, say NO to helicopters.

[Etherimp 1323]

Yeah, I love helicopters in the mod. I love what they add to the game. Sorry, more vehicles please.

 

And rarity/ease of use/ease of maintenance is a massive factor in deeming helicopters as inappropriate/appropriate. Dismissing it as a factor is just silly.

 

 

I am not trying to deem them "inappropriate/appropriate".. You can make Helicopters as realistic and/or rare as you want, and the end result is the same. 

Helicopters in game vs helicopters not in game is the only factor which matters.. IF you have helicopters in the game, you reduce travel time IMMENSELY and allow players to see a birds-eye view of the entire map, which allows tents/camps/vehicles to get stomped out much more rapidly than they can be replaced/maintained. 

 

Adding more difficulty to getting those helicopters, or maintaining them, or flying them, WILL NOT change that.

 

Make helicopters as difficult to fly as real heli's... People will still learn to fly them and use them.

 

Put only 1 helicopter on a server... SOMEONE will still have access to it.

 

Make it so Heli's only have 1-2 passengers.. Those 1-2 passengers will STILL have access to the entire map.

 

Make it so fuel is hard to come by... Heli owners will just lock down the locations where fuel exist.

 

Make it so it takes 2 hours to refuel them.. Doesn't matter, 2 hours of refueling + 1 hour in the sky = well worth it for the amount of control you have over other peoples bases/tents/stashes/vehicles.

 

 

As long as heli's are in the game, in WHATEVER form you put them in, it still affords the users of the heli's the same benefits... in fact, by making them more and more difficult you're actually doing yourself a disservice.. You're making heli's exclusionary rather than inclusive.. If it takes 10 people to refuel/repair/maintain a heli, then only teams/clans/groups with 10 players or more will have access to them.

 

That really what you want?

[gibonez 3633]

Quite surprised and happy to see so many people against helicopters.

 

They are bad for gameplay, immersion and would be a problem and a bane on the game.

 

Imagine when player bases are in the game a simple helicopter crash into them and the base is destroyed.

 

Atleast with a car bomb the car has to survive the hail of gunfire and get close enough.

[PineappleWolf 33]

Quite surprised and happy to see so many people against helicopters.

 

They are bad for gameplay, immersion and would be a problem and a bane on the game.

 

Imagine when player bases are in the game a simple helicopter crash into them and the base is destroyed.

 

Atleast with a car bomb the car has to survive the hail of gunfire and get close enough.

How are they bad for gameplay and immersion? No pilots or manuals survived? And bitch please you don't even know how bases are going to be constructed, even then, the first versions of bases are underground bunkers. You have no idea what you're talking about. 

 

Also, back up with fucking experience. Have you flown a helicopter on standalone? No? Shut up.

 

Have you flown a helicopter in the mod or a mod of the mod? Even then you're still probably referring to one of the many easy god cheat whatevertehfuck servers that run rampant and not vanilla game play.

 

Most of this thread is just whining about how they're going to ruin shit, you haven't even tried them and have no idea how they're going to be. Do any of you have any PROOF OR EXPERIENCE to back anything up other then your own opinionated bullshit?

 

To the ones who think cars and any type of vehicles are immersion breaking, that's illogical, mechanics most likely survived and I'm sure with all the car-maniacs someone would be able to fix a damned car. 

 

Anyone who opposes vehicles/helicopters with out legitimate factual reasons, no opinionated bullshit, is just being a whining bitch who doesn't know what they're talking about. 

 

Other apocalypse type games/shows...

 

Walking Dead: Cars, a tank, and former military members had a lot of armored vehicles, which were a RARE sight in their new world, and I think I might have even seen a chopper, in fact, didn't one crash?

 

Fallout: Fallout 2 you help repair a nuclear powered muscle car. New Vegas probably has all sorts of transportation, let alone Vertibirds, used by the NCR/Other Factions. The Boomers even rig up an old WWII bomber to use.

 

Fallen Earth MMO - You craft your own vehicles eventually, which takes forever, and they are eventually faster/different types keying in with the larger and larger maps you get access to as you level.

 

Left 4 Dead - You travelled around off screen in numerous vehicles, from commercial planes to Military Helis to cars and boats.

 

I have an idea, instead of bitching about Helicopters, lets bitch about BOATS. Fucking OP Boats ruinin' my immersion. 

[optimumbox 8]

The vast majority of us have played the mod and know the joys and pains of having helicopters - broken window causing fuel to leak, main rotor parts being nowhere in sight when you needed them, the joy of fixing your first heli... Then taking to the skies to find every possible clan camp on the map...

 

Good times!

 

However, thanks to the mod I have experienced the potential benefits and downsides of helicopters and came to the conclusion that they should NOT be included in the stand alone.

 

My main gripe with helicopters is simple - whoever has one, controls the map.

 

Helicopters not only nullify distance, but also the threat of other players. When you're moving at 200 KPH, way in the clouds, you're not in any danger at all. Small arms fire barely tickles you when you're on the ground, in the air it's nigh on impossible to get hit. 

 

This is a huge problem in my opinion, as it allows one group of players to have an immense advantage over everyone else. Players who die can be instantly picked up at the shore and dropped at the camp to re-gear in no time. At least when you're taking a car down to the shore, you're risking not only the vehicle but also your gear - is it really worth it risking your car just to pick someone else up?

 

Groups who control helicopters have supreme reign over the server and quite frankly destroy the server - trust me, finding camps in a heli is very easy, camps are the only thing holding groups to a server, so when the camp's gone, so are they. 

 

Helis are basically too good. You can make them only have space for 2 players and my opinion would remain the same. All the other vehicles have serious disadvantages.

 

In my opinion the period of time when Helis were disabled but cars were about was some of the most fun I've had on DayZ. Searching for players and camps on foot with my squad, yes please!

 

Planes IMO could work, since they require a good bit of land to land and take off and if the 3rd person is disabled, it's very hard to see anything out of them.

 

Thoughts, opinions?

 

 

 

I disagree with your take on helicopters as far as camps are concerned. In the mod, camps were easy to find because you would be able to see vehicles, tents, etc. If objects like backpacks, weapons, or crates are persistent they will be difficult to spot on the ground. As for controlling the map, I agree to a fine point. There is the advantage of being able to take off and pick up your friends on a whim, but it does make you a giant target in terms of tracking. I used to track the direction of helicopters all of the time in the mod. I would say 8/10 times I would be able to follow it back to the pilot's campsite. As a pilot, you never true know if you're landing zone is safe. Also, since they are supposedly reworking the vehicles anyways, I should mention that actual helicopters require maintenance after every flight. They are the most difficult and expensive civilian type aircraft to maintain. 

Edited May 11, 2014 by Optimumbox

[PineappleWolf 33]

Optimum, good sir, your post is missing.

 

 

 

On another note: My response to this issue: http://forums.dayzgame.com/index.php?/topic/195391-please-say-no-to-boats/

Edited May 11, 2014 by PineappleWolf

[noother10 6]

I'm for helicopters. It adds a goal, something to achieve and aim for. I start the game now, go 1 hour or so and have mostly full kit so what do I do after that? Shoot people I guess. When vehicles are in, find a vehicle, repair it, use it and keep it. That adds a goal in the game that takes much longer and can be easily lost. After vehicles we can have bases, something even longer to achieve but harder to lose. What happens after that? If we have helicopters there is another thing to go for which would be harder/rarer then a car. They'd be handy for opening new avenues of gameplay. Some newb is stuck at a spawn being attacked by bandits while I'm at my inland base, yeh I won't help since you're 30mins away and won't likely be around by then, but if I have a chopper it'll only take a few minutes, why not?

 

As long as they add variants, make armed ones rare, others like news choppers and tourism choppers more frequent, but still only like 1-2 choppers per server (and that's with 100+ player pop). They don't have to be flying death machines, they are a target for players regardless, less people banditing newbs.

[FrostDMG 398]

Ok guys. try to keep the discussion on topic.

 

I'm all for making end-game goals tough to achieve and I think Helicopters were great motivators, however, I don't like their potential downsides. I would love if we could customize already existing vehicles - GAZ, UAZ hell, even the truck. If we could armour plate those vehicles, that would give people a goal - goal for something that was more than "get guns".

 

I can only assume most of you guys have either played solo or without a good pilot in your group. In my group there were 2 guys that always flew (me and a buddy since we were the best at it) - never once did we get shot down or did our camp get found out because of our heli - what you basically do is "fake" your flightpath, and only turn when you're out of the way of any towns. 

 

Helis were immense fun - but something that gives an advantage so great that one has to wonder if the game would not devolve back into the same old "one group whores all the vehicles". In my group we actually didn't steal or raid when we found one vehicle - there was no point landing and checking out the loot, too much effort, and we also wanted other players to have vehicles, due to the game becoming completely stale once you were controlling a server. 

 

Also, we don't know if camps going to be underground. If they are, I think it's a big mistake. If other players can't raid your camp, then why not have it right on the coast so you can just kill noobies without the fear of death, without the fear of your camp being found out? Even if you can somehow store your loot underground, there needs to be some sort of an indicator so that other players can identify and loot such locations. Just because you can store loot underground, doesn't mean you can store cars.

Hard working groups of even 2 or 3 people might have 2 cars which are so incredibly easy to spot from the sky, but could actually be incredibly difficult to find on the ground. That's the thing - on the ground, you can park cars in such a way, in between trees that they're incredibly difficult to spot, especially when they're green/dark - when you're in the air, due to objects not rendering, there's no such difficulty. 

 

I had a video of our group getting away after we raided a camp we found on foot... Can't find it atm...

[PineappleWolf 33]

They have mentioned somewhere, don't quote me on it, that the first implementation of bases will be underground bunkers, and then eventually you'll have base building similar to Epoch or other such mods. 

And you'd be able to find them, and break inside regardless. 

 

Who also says we can't have some cool batman thing to store vehicles inside of, or that the entrance is small? 

 

I have a video of Beck being a 1337 Helicopter pilot, and by that I mean parachuting into his own rotor. Things like that by inexperienced pilots, which there are plenty of, are what makes them more difficult than vehicles. Also the fact they're noisy as hell and need open flat areas to land. 

 

Besides, we're talking about helicopters, not bunkers nor cars. If you wish to discuss boats however, you know where to go.

 

Fun/Good Gameplay > Opinions, alas. And I've had several competent pilots fly me, mostly because I'm a shitty pilot. These were not the ones who decided to see how fast it went. 

[FrostDMG 398]

Yeah, I agree that helis are fun, but balanced pvp > pure fun factor.

 

BALANCED PVP YOU SAY? BUT THIS IS A ZOMBIE SURVIVAL GAME?!!!!11

 

Yeah, yeah. Don't kid yourself, PvP will always play a huge part in this game, and whilst it's pretty damn balanced without helis, it wouldn't be so with them - and I'm not even talking about the helis with guns here.

 

Finding all your bases in 5 minutes - Yup

Dropping people left and right - Yup

Destroying the game for people with and without helis - Yup

 

That's right - you might think it's fun to have a heli and to rule the map, but trust me, after a week you'll soon learn that you and your heli flying crew single handedly destroyed all of the other groups on the server - and the best part is, it can all be done without firing one bullet. This will cause the other groups to leave the server since there's no point making new camps or getting new cars because of the group with the heli. You'll probably leave the server soon after because you too will realize that without other groups to compete with, the game is boring. Et voila. Server is dead. 

 

Finding a camp on foot or even in a loud quad is incredibly difficult, especially if it's spread out of 200m area. Even if you find a part of the camp, chances are you can't look it all and probably there's more you haven;t found yet. This allows the other groups to relocate and cut their losses. When you have a heli with you, it's basically free loot day. You can loot absolutely everything and don't even have to think twice about it.

[xalienax 621]

a few things

 

1. in the "official" mod there were only 3 helicopters. all hueys for most of the early days of the mod. thats THREE to go around amoung 60+ players on a full server. the helis "on every street corner" was PvP-focused private hives ramping up vehicle spawns.

 

2. Groups should dominate the map. i dont know why people can't get this through thier skulls. GROUP PLAY = INTERACTION. ever day i read 3 threads where people complain that theres no reason to work together, then when thiers something that take a GROUP of players to maintain and operate they complain it makes groups OP/the only way to play. isnt that the point? group up or die?

 

3. What Happened to Survival SIMULATOR? Simulators shouldn't be balanced. they should be authentic. vehicles need as much realism and atention as all the eating and disease junk gets, and so do weapons for that matter.

[PineappleWolf 33]

Helis realistically speaking are somewhat balanced, especially if they're difficult to find. See my post again on page 5.

 

I disagree with finding bases and dropping people, realistically speaking, Hide them in the fucking woods.

 

Dropping people? Maybe after you get out, even with armed ones, seriously, its called a building. 

 

Destroying the game? Hardly. See Page 5.

 

See boats thread. 

 

Finding a camp from the AIR is incredibly loud, more so than on foot when I can move near silently through the woods. 

 

Also, perhaps its called fucking up the Heli if some douchebag has it? Especially with civilian models which would be less resistant to weapons fire. 

 

 

Edit: I agree with Sovetsky, making some of the same points on my larger posts on page 5 and 6. 

Edited May 11, 2014 by PineappleWolf

[FrostDMG 398]

a few things

 

1. in the "official" mod there were only 3 helicopters. all hueys for most of the early days of the mod. thats THREE to go around amoung 60+ players on a full server. the helis "on every street corner" was PvP-focused private hives ramping up vehicle spawns.

 

2. Groups should dominate the map. i dont know why people can't get this through thier skulls. GROUP PLAY = INTERACTION. ever day i read 3 threads where people complain that theres no reason to work together, then when thiers something that take a GROUP of players to maintain and operate they complain it makes groups OP/the only way to play. isnt that the point? group up or die?

 

3. What Happened to Survival SIMULATOR? Simulators shouldn't be balanced. they should be authentic. vehicles need as much realism and atention as all the eating and disease junk gets, and so do weapons for that matter.

 

Sigh. I'm all for group interaction. But trust me, the game is OVER once you get the helis. You'll get bored so fast as soon as you get one - read my post.

 

Just because you can't land in the woods doesn't mean the helis are not only the fastest but also the safest way to scout the map.

Only a young yolo would decide to solo fly a heli then land it all by himself just to loot a camp.

 

You fly, you scout, you remember, you come back in a quad. 

 

If you'd rather walk for camps than fly - given the opportunity - I think you're bullshitting here.

[PineappleWolf 33]

Considering I'm a shitty pilot, I'd rather grab a motorcycle. Less obvious somewhat too, perhaps even some ATV type vehicle.

 

Helis while not as OP as you think they are, are not everyone's cup of tea.

[FrostDMG 398]

Considering I'm a shitty pilot, I'd rather grab a motorcycle. Less obvious somewhat too, perhaps even some ATV type vehicle.

 

Helis while not as OP as you think they are, are not everyone's cup of tea.

 

I'm running out of ways to get my point across. 

 

Have you ever played on a server with every vehicle (I do mean EVERY) safely stashed away in an admin camp? I have. You know what happens if you invade their camp and steal their vehicles? They get them all back within 30min-1hour depending if they're online.

 

Without helicopters, they would have to actually RISK their vehicles and gear going on the ground either driving through woods or walking. This would also take them plenty more time and give you the opportunity to hide the goods. This also gives normal players the opportunity to cap 'em bitches.

 

Once you get the heli you'll spend most of your time in the air since it's so damn fast and safe, only time you'll be on the ground to raid or stock up in your camp. 

[xalienax 621]

Sigh. I'm all for group interaction. But trust me, the game is OVER once you get the helis. You'll get bored so fast as soon as you get one - read my post.

 

Just because you can't land in the woods doesn't mean the helis are not only the fastest but also the safest way to scout the map.

Only a young yolo would decide to solo fly a heli then land it all by himself just to loot a camp.

 

You fly, you scout, you remember, you come back in a quad. 

 

If you'd rather walk for camps than fly - given the opportunity - I think you're bullshitting here.

I just didn't have the same experience you did. the helis become the game. When you have it you use to it diminate all others, but sooner or laters those who remain band together (Ive actually seen 3 clans merge as a result of us controlling ALL 3 choppers on that server) finally they find one of your choppers and use it to finde the other 2. the cycle is reset and begins again.

 

For us, it created a whole new dynamic to the game. it shifted from a handful of mixed ragtags to 3 major clans who were locked in a never-ending blood feud for vehicle supremacy. it went from bean wars in balota to road warrior in the skies of northern chernarus.

[PineappleWolf 33]

@Frost

 

You're referencing modded/admin abused parts of the Mod, not the vanilla mod.

 

Your point/argument is therefor invalid. 

 

Past of mod =\= future of SA

 

Also, screw the cheap cheat abusers at that note.

Edited May 11, 2014 by PineappleWolf

[FrostDMG 398]

@Frost

 

You're referencing modded/admin abused parts of the Mod, not the vanilla mod.

 

Your point/argument is therefor invalid. 

 

Past of mod =\= future of SA

 

Also, screw the cheap cheat abusers at that note.

 

??? 

 

You're the one referring to epoch and not even the vanilla game.

 

I'm talking legit vehicles not spawned in via scripts. 

[PineappleWolf 33]

Epoch was a comparison due to it being my most recent experience, at that a relatively tame Epoch experience as compared to these cheat easy servers.

I wasn't also mentioning specific things in Epoch, just making a comparison to Helis in general from it, in contrast you referenced servers with a decent amount of admin abuse happening.

 

Any servers with admins hogging shit is a shitty server and should be avoided.

 

 I point towards Sovetsky, regardless. 

[FrostDMG 398]

Epoch was a comparison due to it being my most recent experience, at that a relatively tame Epoch experience as compared to these cheat easy servers.

I wasn't also mentioning specific things in Epoch, just making a comparison to Helis in general from it, in contrast you referenced servers with a decent amount of admin abuse happening.

 

Any servers with admins hogging shit is a shitty server and should be avoided.

 

 I point towards Sovetsky, regardless. 

 

Sigh... Admins were usually in a group and groups hog shit.

 

I was never talking about those 4000 vehicle servers btw, this is on normal servers where one group basically dominates the server.

[xalienax 621]

Sigh... Admins were usually in a group and groups hog shit.

 

I was never talking about those 4000 vehicle servers btw, this is on normal servers where one group basically dominates the server.

Its the apocalypse of course groups "hog shit". that really is the end game of dayZ to group up with other survivors and further your own goals as a group. Some of these groups form of server regulars, some from pre-existing clans, and some are organized via the forums here. the issues you desrcibed are ones of abusive admins not of helis them selves.

[FrostDMG 398]

Its the apocalypse of course groups "hog shit". that really is the end game of dayZ to group up with other survivors and further your own goals as a group. Some of these groups form of server regulars, some from pre-existing clans, and some are organized via the forums here. the issues you desrcibed are ones of abusive admins not of helis them selves.

 

Yeah. Hogging shit ruins the server though - and if I'm not mistaken, this is a game we're meant to be playing. Hogging shit is made infinitely easier by having a helicopter. 

[xalienax 621]

Yeah. Hogging shit ruins the server though - and if I'm not mistaken, this is a game we're meant to be playing. Hogging shit is made infinitely easier by having a helicopter. 

i see dayZ as a struggle between the groups on a server. hoarding a natural extension of that. vehicles raise the stakes thats all.

[PineappleWolf 33]

@Frost

 

I point to the other person once more.

 

And how the fuck is this about Admins? Screw admins, screw any power they had, realistically speaking they require none other then basic server control. 

 

You're comparing the faults of the mod to a game that isn't even at the same point yet. 

Edited May 11, 2014 by PineappleWolf

[xalienax 621]

@Frost

 

I point to the other person once more.

 

And how the fuck is this about Admins? Screw admins, screw any power they had, realistically speaking they require none other then basic server control. 

 

You're comparing the faults of the mod to a game that isn't even at the same point yet. 

Actually i have to beg to differ with you on that point about admins mate. I was the main admin for a clan that ran 2 official mod servers (before the days of private hive being the mainstream). the sheer number of script kiddies i could not ban because of the hosting rules was rediculous and destructive to the comunity. if someone is to pay 70+ dollars a freaking a freaking month they should be able to at a minimum

 

1. Set server options such as day/night cycle, auto restarts, etc.

2. Run and install 3rd party logging and anti-cheat apps (see gotcha, BEC, etc)

3. BAN from thier own server based on logs/detections produced by those apps.

 

waiting for BattlEye to get around to a wave of bans is not sufficient when you have 60 players expereince being ruined by script kiddies and and guys hiding in a glitchs inside a wall or some ish.

[PineappleWolf 33]

I would like to note that Frost, admins or anyone hogging, rare shit, is not the point of this argument.

And if that is your main point now, your argument is invalid. Cheese.