How could we deal with hackers?

[UltimateGentleman 355]

Not a whining topic, actual discussion.

 

So let's come up with possible solutions.

 

Firstly, a message saying who you were killed by is something that would help, so that if you go in to Berenzino and get killed by the same guy over and over despite looking at every rooftop, obviously some bullshit is going down.

 

So then I think a flag or kick feature could be added to the game, many people flag a player they get kicked. Though it would no doubt be abused by clans I still think it would be better than people getting away with hacking, if you get kicked for no reason so what you still have your stuff just join another server.

 

Or rather than that have active admins with their own slot in a server so that once a person is flagged they can go investigate(make them invincible or something but can't kill players) and if a person genuinely is hacking in to walls or whatever, kick. I'm sure they'd instantly be shot at to the point where it would be made obvious the person has infinite ammo too.

 

 

Obviously it's an alpha right now and a lot of things will be fixed in future but no game is without it's cheaters so even when it's finished people will probably still find a way.

"Alpha" is no magical bandaid that means it will be impossible to hack in future, so lets keep the whining to a minimal and think of some possible solutions.

 

 

 

So what realistically implementable solutions have you thought of?

[tommy290 941]

Methods that rely on human interaction are, at best, cumbersome. At worst, they lead to a lot of false kicks/bans. Everyone calls hacks for very little reason. It's painfully obvious by the number of forum posts, videos, etc that "call out" hackers. The majority of the time someone just got killed and there wasn't anything fishy about it. They're just upset and want to have an excuse other than they made a mistake or aren't very good at the game. But, even if you remove that glaring obstacle to unbiased policing, you still have the fact that having someone report an alleged hacker is terribly inefficient. According to Steam, peak DayZ players today is just over 27,000. Imagine what that number will look like after the full release. You can't have admin sitting on every server 24/7 to watch out for supposed hackers.

 

The best way to stop hackers is to design programs that find suspicious behavior and analyze it. I'm assuming this is what BattleEye and those things do. If I guy moves across the map too fast (i.e. teleporting) the program should see that and know he's hacking. Same goes for when weapons just magically appear. I'd think a sophisticated program could keep an eye on players and make sure nothing nefarious is going on. Maybe check to see if they're using a cheat program. The vast majority of "hackers" are just script-kiddies that don't really know what they're doing. If you can target and eliminate those base level cheaters, you'll solve most of the problem.

[Grimey Rick 3417]

First of all, no disrespect meant, but let's not label these people as "hackers"; that's giving them way too much credit. They're cheaters. They play to ruin other people's fun.

 

By the time the game launches the development team will have removed most of, if not all of the text currently inhabiting our screen. This means no more "I am extremely hungry" or "I am getting wet" messages will be cluttering the UI. They want this game to be as immersive as possible. Adding an overlay detailing who killed you was fine for the mod, but the standalone is designed to be as authentic as possible.

 

With that out of the way, the only realistic approach to keeping the cheating to a minimum rests on the shoulders of BattlEye. It's up to them to derail cheating, but so far they haven't been really pulling their weight.

 

As always with DayZ, I remain hopeful but doubtful.

 

 

[UltimateGentleman 355]

Still though I think people renting a server should be obligated to act as an admin and kick people for bad behaviour.

 

Also I guess BattleEye could have actual rules? How many times have you went on a "friendly no KOS" server and been gunned down? If you're renting a server PVP should be something you can put off, for example. BattleEye or just the game in general.

 

 

I'm not sure it could ever be so sophisticated that it completely negates any cheating though. It would have to map and monitor the whole land to tell if someone is in a wall when they obviously shouldn't be, so I think player solutions with the right idea could work just...which ones.

[MetapoliC 263]

Cheaters*

 

Using hacks/exploits doesn't make you a HACKER. It makes you a pussy cheater.

[Element47 2481]

BE does actually a pretty good job.

 

Still though I think people renting a server should be obligated to act as an admin and kick people for bad behaviour.

 

Also I guess BattleEye could have actual rules? How many times have you went on a "friendly no KOS" server and been gunned down? If you're renting a server PVP should be something you can put off, for example. BattleEye or just the game in general.

 

 

I'm not sure it could ever be so sophisticated that it completely negates any cheating though. It would have to map and monitor the whole land to tell if someone is in a wall when they obviously shouldn't be, so I think player solutions with the right idea could work just...which ones.

do not confuse cheating via third party hacks, glitching, and playing a playstyle the admin may not condone. those are three fundamentally different things, and mixing them up in a topic about cheaters is pointless.

[babypuncher71 22]

For starters fix the ammo glitch,then fix the wall or building glitches where you can be inside a build where you CANT normally get to..

This would be a great start...

[Scofflaw 73]

With that out of the way, the only realistic approach to keeping the cheating to a minimum rests on the shoulders of BattlEye. It's up to them to derail cheating, but so far they haven't been really pulling their weight.

 

As always with DayZ, I remain hopeful but doubtful.

 

This is basically how it should be.  Anything that gives players the ability to kick/ban tends to be abused.  I'd say a good 50% of the time I die I have no idea where the other guy was.  It's easy for me to say hacker, but it's mostly just snipers and my lack of skill.

[Ghostflux 100]

There's 4 steps that any game can follow to discourage hacker abuse.

 

1. Developers closing the holes in the game that allow for the hacks

2. Having an anti-cheat system

3. Having decent admin tools needed to observe and to ban hackers.

4. Having report tools, that when abused punishes the person who reports as well.

Edited May 9, 2014 by Ghostflux

[Weyland Yutani (DayZ) 1159]

Not a whining topic, actual discussion.

 

So let's come up with possible solutions.

 

Firstly, a message saying who you were killed by is something that would help, so that if you go in to Berenzino and get killed by the same guy over and over despite looking at every rooftop, obviously some bullshit is going down.

 

So what realistically implementable solutions have you thought of?

 

I don't like the idea of kill messages because it gives up anonymity to the entire board. I think it would hurt role-play as well as game-play because the board will see message after message on the screen…especially for those capping film.

 

My suggestion is: to keep the player name attached to the dead body indefinitely [until it despawns].

 

What happens is you kill someone and when the body gets cold or hid its an 'unknown entity' which is problematic if your trying to record proper evidence. This happened to us the other night. Our group killed a hacker and the one that killed the hacker hid the body too quickly before I could get to it and check pulse for a name to corroborate his hacked contents [infinite ammo…he was teleporting as well].

Edited May 9, 2014 by Weyland Yutani

[real meatshield 424]

Not a whining topic, actual discussion.

 

So let's come up with possible solutions.

 

Firstly, a message saying who you were killed by is something that would help, so that if you go in to Berenzino and get killed by the same guy over and over despite looking at every rooftop, obviously some bullshit is going down.

Oh hell no. Too much like CoD and BF and all the other RNG shooters. 

 

And why would it have to be "some bullshit" going down? Maybe the bullshit is your own playstyle is weak and lacking, and the dude happened to be positioned properly to capitalize? Can't go blaming every death, or a chain of deaths, on a "cheater", just because you lack the ability to detect or avoid him.

So then I think a flag or kick feature could be added to the game, many people flag a player they get kicked. Though it would no doubt be abused by clans I still think it would be better than people getting away with hacking, if you get kicked for no reason so what you still have your stuff just join another server.

Again, just no. And you already said the reason why it would be bad, and it wouldn't be relegated to only clans- any group of randoms could get together in direct and get their freshie rage on, when its the same one or two guys on the outskirts of town picking them off. Hell, if the freshies want to continue their march of the lemmings into town via the same route, they deserve the same fate of the lemmings over and over. Can't fault the guys who are capitalizing on it.

Or rather than that have active admins with their own slot in a server so that once a person is flagged they can go investigate(make them invincible or something but can't kill players) and if a person genuinely is hacking in to walls or whatever, kick. I'm sure they'd instantly be shot at to the point where it would be made obvious the person has infinite ammo too

This is legit, have an admin-only spectator slot available. Although, this could also be abused- but at least the chance for abuse would boil down to who happened to be logged in as admin at the time. On a clan server, you're either going to get overly abused by members who want it all for themselves, much like it is now- or you'll wind up with excellent admins who want their server community to grow and prosper, and will administer the server as such.

[bodybagger2430 59]

First of all, no disrespect meant, but let's not label these people as "hackers"; that's giving them way too much credit. They're cheaters. They play to ruin other people's fun.

(snip)

 

 

Cheaters*

 

Using hacks/exploits doesn't make you a HACKER. It makes you a pussy cheater.

Indeed. Out of curiostiy I looked up some of these "hacks" to see what the hacking community is doing and how battle eye is helping, the answer, not that much. Most of these hacks are actually developer options left in the game from Arma2 similar to "impulse 101" from half life 2, or /gamemode 0/1 from minecraft. etc. They are not "hacking" but exploiting loopholes in the game for the sake of ruining others fun. And battle eye hasn't risen to the challenge. They either need to step it up, or we need someone who will, as opposed to kicking for using a solid state drive or whatever.

 

Edit: not to say battle eye HASN'T stepped it up to take care of the threat, they just aren't being proactive enough and preventative.

Edited May 9, 2014 by bodybagger2430

[artisan661 13]

people always will exploit things in the game that they can...if they are there people will do it.

 

Hacking thats up to battleye to make better detection for hacks. THey seem to always fall short in that area,.

 

But its alpha so its going to happen till they eventually fix it, i doubt thats high on the priority list atm.

[Lady Kyrah 1110]

Not a whining topic, actual discussion.

 

So let's come up with possible solutions.

 

Firstly, a message saying who you were killed by is something that would help, so that if you go in to Berenzino and get killed by the same guy over and over despite looking at every rooftop, obviously some bullshit is going down.

 

So then I think a flag or kick feature could be added to the game, many people flag a player they get kicked. Though it would no doubt be abused by clans I still think it would be better than people getting away with hacking, if you get kicked for no reason so what you still have your stuff just join another server.

 

Or rather than that have active admins with their own slot in a server so that once a person is flagged they can go investigate(make them invincible or something but can't kill players) and if a person genuinely is hacking in to walls or whatever, kick. I'm sure they'd instantly be shot at to the point where it would be made obvious the person has infinite ammo too.

 

 

Obviously it's an alpha right now and a lot of things will be fixed in future but no game is without it's cheaters so even when it's finished people will probably still find a way.

"Alpha" is no magical bandaid that means it will be impossible to hack in future, so lets keep the whining to a minimal and think of some possible solutions.

 

 

 

So what realistically implementable solutions have you thought of?

Who you where killed by doesn't consist of a hack prevention.

Flagging players only encourage suspicion.

Kicking is not allowed by server operators and i don't think this is going to change.

Server operator are PLAYERS not admins, and that would imply that they have to be trusted, which we have seen with the mod, is a terrible idea.

 

Hack prevention is done through code server side, not with "neighborhood watch".

 

And it's not just about detecting hacks, it's also a question of hardening the server, i mean why is it even possible for a client to "create" a hacked magazine? Loot is created by the server, there is no point where it should even listen to the client for these things. The only thing i can point is "remains" of the way arma work.

Edited May 9, 2014 by Lady Kyrah

[hexrain 11]

i have noticed BE is kicking way more people in game for .pbo decrepencies and file sizes... which i think is fairly new... i also noticed a couple of global ban kicks... maybe were are experiencing the next wave of bans. also the last couple of days i havent encountered hackers at all, when the previous 2 weeks i have seen like 2 a day.

[PhillyT 554]

My buddies and I were running to meet up at NEAF.  They ran into a guy with a broken leg outside of Svet.  The guy warned them that hackers were all over the place in town and to run.  They ran.

 

So one thing to do:  Tell other survivors!

[AzrailCross 48]

Firstly setting all of the processing on the servers will wipe a lot of the third party program cheating; severely limit it at least.

 

Once it's implemented and the game is out of alpha; a program (like battle eye) can be set to monitor for not only third party programs and obvious packet tweaking; but also oddities in the game itself; down to ensuring the server has control of health, the hit-boxes, in such a way unless the server itself was actively being hacked (literally, hacked) you'd at least never be able to teleport around without being detected, always die when your suppose to, and the only big issue that'd be left is actual .exe alterations, aimboting and texture swapping (wall hacking) that battleeye would have to always keep on top of detecting; which takes dedicated people surfing for TPP (or actively monitoring to figure out where the loophole is in some cases) and then fixing the issue, and banning all those detected using it; in turn that means the caught often pay for the game again, funding more monitoring, which will pop up again in hours, and the cycle continues.

 

Obviously giving admin tools is a mixed blessing, on one hand the admins ban obvious cheaters on the other they ban people who they think are to good to be legitimate - but are, and of course people they just don't like for no reason at all.

 

(Counter strike, I'm looking at you.. just because I was a good with the Deagle and scout headshotting and had a surround sound headset didn't mean I was wallhacking an' aimbotting ya' jerk admins! :P .. but was amusing at the time even if it happen to frequently; one set of server admins said they couldn't prove I was cheating, in fact from some mistakes I made they didn't believe I was - but told me to leave, and go into E-sports because I was ruining their game time <.< Fun times!)

[gibonez 3633]

private hives + white listing + active mods = only way to fix this.

 

This combination would not only fix hackers but fix 90 percent of the problems in the game.

 

One server one character.

[Irish. 4886]

The only solution is become a hacker yourself, much better than the common video game hacker... and track each one down, and disable their PC for good.

 

Maybe even start a club that does it as a nameless, faceless collective?

 

Name yourselves something like..

 

 

Ambiguous.

 

;)

[Irish. 4886]

private hives + white listing + active mods = only way to fix this.

 

This combination would not only fix hackers but fix 90 percent of the problems in the game.

 

One server one character.

Even then you still have hacker issues, and then the inevitable character rollback to keep your community happy.. Trust me, Ive been there. BMRF.me.

[gibonez 3633]

Even then you still have hacker issues, and then the inevitable character rollback to keep your community happy.. Trust me, Ive been there. BMRF.me.

 

Sure but hackers can never be stopped but private hives and white listing + admins help fix the problem.

 

Hackers are banned, if the admins are active, the whitelisting process provides another step of annoyance for a wouldbe hacker.

[Irish. 4886]

Sure but hackers can never be stopped but private hives and white listing + admins help fix the problem.

 

Hackers are banned, if the admins are active, the whitelisting process provides another step of annoyance for a wouldbe hacker.

It helps.. but from what Ive seen its only a bandaid on an issue that is insurmountable.

 

Admins have to be available 24/7 via an IRC or similar method, then they must check the logs to ensure someone is hacking.. by then so much damage is done that if you want to keep people happy you have to do character rollbacks after you kick and ban the hacker.. all of this takes time and effort. Then you have the server and website hacking by those you banned seeking revenge. DDOS attacks shutting down your servers randomly.. website getting hacked, etc.. Its a vicious circle.

 

Im just giving context to your statement.. thats all.

[UltimateGentleman 355]

Admins have to be available 24/7 via an IRC or similar method, then they must check the logs to ensure someone is hacking.. by then so much damage is done that if you want to keep people happy you have to do character rollbacks after you kick and ban the hacker.. all of this takes time and effort. Then you have the server and website hacking by those you banned seeking revenge. DDOS attacks shutting down your servers randomly.. website getting hacked, etc.. Its a vicious circle.

 

Now this is giving them too much credit, just because they can hack stuff in the game doesn't mean they can do all that.

Why would hacking geniuses waste their time playing this game? Maybe some do but I highly doubt there's more than a few, if any.

 

An active admin on a private server that you have to buy in to is probably the easiest option, admins can be on 24/7 if they're employed to be there doesn't need to be only one admin per server.

Provided the servers could hold like at least 100 people easily anyway. Given a monthly wage then if an admin starts doing things they shouldn't, no money at the end of the month so that would basically eliminate them being assholes.

 

I certainly wouldn't mind paying a few pounds each month to have a reliable server that isn't full of douchebags.

[Lady Kyrah 1110]

The only solution is become a hacker yourself, much better than the common video game hacker... and track each one down, and disable their PC for good.

 

Maybe even start a club that does it as a nameless, faceless collective?

 

Name yourselves something like..

 

 

Ambiguous.

 

;)

You're watching too many movies.

[mkgriff 0]

Me and my friend were killed by a aimbot hacker last night. 2 shots 2 headshots. And by the amount of bodies lying around we weren't the only victims. My friend even watched him take out a group of 3 with a Mosin. We play on public servers and hardcore but still can't avoid running into these under achieving losers. I will say this was the first one I've seen on hardcore. They hack then try to sell there hacks to newbs. Don't understand why even play the game. To all hackers/cheaters you clearly have no life skills or ever been good at anything in your life. You sir are a sad individual with no sense of honor or integrity.