Why do some players do everything possible to avoid interaction?

[mithrawndo 166]

If I may, I'll start with a short story recounting the events of last night. I play in a small group of 3 or 4 laid back players who spend most of their time in the western reaches of the map. Once we're comfortably set up we tend to roam around looking for interaction with a healthy balance of firearms on our side, casting a reasonably wide circle around Berezino (as we once did with Elektro) as we'd like to do a little more than just shoot and be shot at - though of course we do enjoy our share of conflict. However this post was inspired by another player we met at Balota Airfield in the small hours last night, on a server with around 25 players connected.

 

 

We had just run in reverse what was once known as the "path of the warrior" back down from the NWAF to Balota via Zelenogorsk and, unsurprisingly, hadn't encountered a soul. As we approached Balota from the coast, our sniper peeled off to the north to take position on one of the overlooks at the airfield, whilst our close and mid range members took up position about a kilometre away from the western edge of the airstrip. Soon our sniper spotted someone running across the apron from the north to the barracks at the south-west corner of the airfield, and we sprung into action: As we approached the airfield we split into two groups, with the close quarters specialist moving to the south, behind the barrack buildings to block the exit and our mid range specialist moving in from near the Jail building - a simple pincer manoeuvre. Confident that the area was reasonably safe, we closed in around the building that the player was last seen in and, having confirmed through a window that he was indeed still present, tried to open a dialogue.

 

"Alright buddy" I oozed, "Put your weapon down and nobody has to get hurt. We have you surrounded."

 

I could see our target spinning his head around inside the barracks, desperately trying to confirm if we were telling the truth.

 

"There's a sniper on the hill zero'd to the front door." I revealed, trying to keep the effects of adrenaline out of my voice. "There's only one way you're getting out of this alive, and that's if you do exactly what I say. Put down your weapon and..."

 

Before I could finish the sentence, our target was running for the door. As he hit the open air, I called for our sniper to take the shot and the player stumbled to the floor, leg broken. The target then turned to engage his assailants, and as his weapon reached his hands a second bullet from the hill sent him into the black. With my pulse playing a samba beat in my ears, I could hear the elation in our sniper's voice as he recounted hitting a transversally moving target at five hundred metres. The rest of the team took up position to cover the area and I approached the prone target, checking the pulse to confirm that he was still alive.

 

"Why did you do that?" I pleaded, "I told you we had you surrounded. Now you're bleeding like a stuck pig and half of your gear will be trashed. Was it worth it?"

 

Silence was the only response.

 

"Hold on, let me stem your bleeding." I offered, pulling my medikit out and bandaging his gushing wounds. "Do you have a microphone? Do you speak English?"

 

Yet again, my only response was silence. I proceed to handcuff the unconscious player and, abusing the fact that handcuffing shows a player's name (let's call him Rudolph), confirmed he was still connected to the server.

 

"So Rudolph, here's what's going to happen. You've lost a lot of blood and we have you restrained. You can still come out of this alive if you listen very carefully to me. I need to know your blood type if you're going to pull through, can you tell me what it is?"

 

The deafening roar of silence continued, until our sniper chimed in over Teamspeak that he had left the server, his avatar still alive and most of his gear still intact. We emptied his body on to the floor as punishment for (essentially) combat logging, and moved on along the coast in search for other survivors.

 

 

What happened here? Was this just poor judgement coupled with a non english speaking player, or a player silently raging at himself for his mistake? Did I do something wrong that spooked him into trying to run? My transcript is, excepting a few corrections in prose, word for word.

If you're still with me, thank you for taking the time to read this. In the interest of Becoming Better At Being A Bastard At Balota And Berezino (teehee!) I'd like to know what I could do differently in the future, and to do that I feel I have to understand the mentality that leads to the fight or flee reaction when a reasonable alternative is available.

 

TL;DR: Go away or stop being lazy and read!

[pilgrim* 3513]

Heavily armed group of five, moving in a military sweep through an area.

My first reaction would be to get round behind you, pick off one of your wingers, and naff off into the hills.

I'm more guerilla than police squad

Engage the enemy long enough and they will adjust to your tactics.

 

'¡No pasarán!

Edited May 4, 2014 by pilgrim

[meiz22 17]

Most people in this game aren't worth interaction, just a bullet. I tried for months and it's just better too stay away from people or kill the ones that get too close in a threatening manner.

 

Also, "stop moving and we won't shoot" (and most variations) usually means, "stop moving, we can't shoot a moving target".

[mithrawndo 166]

Heavily armed group of five, moving in a military sweep through an area.

My first reaction would be to get round behind you, pick off one of your wingers, and naff off into the hills.

I'm more guerilla than police squad

Engage the enemy long enough and they will learn your tactics.

 

'¡No pasarán!

 

Actually we were only three (sniper, midrange and close quarters), but the dialogue makes for better reading without revealing exact numbers :)

Your response to the situation would probably be accurate, but we were careful not to reveal ourselves until we had the area covered. Unless you'd have got lucky moving between the Barracks, you would neither have seen nor heard us until it was too late - and the sniper was beading him all the way, itching to take the shot.

 

I'm not concerned about people learning my tactics, as what we were doing was fairly textbook stuff, easily countered if he even had one friend on the airfield - of which we couldn't be entirely certain, given the reasonable server population. You've lost me with your Spanish civil war reference though...

[Gobbokirk 546]

Not much else that could be done to be honest.
If people can't/aren't willing to speak they put themselves at a horrible disadvantage.

 

I can't really accept the "don't speak English" reasoning either as there should be server for just about every major language out there.
If someone ran up to me yelling in Russian I might have an issue communicating as well, that's why I don't play on Russian servers :p

If my mic was broken for some reason I wouldn't even bother to log in tbh.

 

Communication is what makes DayZ special to me and if I can't communicate it's not really worth it.

[mithrawndo 166]

Most people in this game aren't worth interaction, just a bullet. I tried for months and it's just better too stay away from people or kill the ones that get too close in a threatening manner.

 

Also, "stop moving and we won't shoot" (and most variations) usually means, "stop moving, we can't shoot a moving target".

 

When I issued this command, he was crouched down in one of the bunk rooms in the barracks, so he was actually pretty safe. By running, he put himself into the line of fire. If he'd have done as I said, he could at least have tried to trick us!

[Bororm 1156]

Impossible to know without his side.  You didn't do anything wrong, some players just don't want to cooperate.

I'll say that the way you speak to people goes a long way to get them to do what you want though.

 

I play in a group, and we try to hold people up once in a while.  Our success rate isn't bad I'd say, but you're never going to appeal to everyone.

Some things I've learned though is that you need to make people feel comfortable as there's not a ton of incentive for a player who doesn't want to cooperate.

 

 

"There's a sniper on the hill zero'd to the front door." I revealed, trying to keep the effects of adrenaline out of my voice. "There's only one way you're getting out of this alive, and that's if you do exactly what I say. Put down your weapon and..."

This isn't the worst way to go about it, but I'd personally be a bit less dramatic.  I'd refrain from straight up threats until after the guy doesn't cooperate for a bit.  I generally open up with a goofy "put your haaaands up" sort of deal, and while I generally ask people to drop their guns, I don't always.  Some times it's just as well to tell a person to put their gun on their back instead, if you can see them this shouldn't be much of an issue.  People feel a lot safer if they can hang on to their weapon, and if you really do have the situation under control it's not a big deal as long as they sling it.  I generally will steal people's ammo but let them keep their gun, unless I really don't need the ammo either in which case I tell them to head off in a particular direction with their weapon still holstered.

 

You say you were met with silence though, so there's not much to be done.  If you can't really strike up a conversation with the guy, it's unlikely he's going to cooperate.

 

Any ways, the point is you want to be confident but not pushy.  Keep things casual, but make sure you're in charge.  Basically, don't phrase your commands as questions ("put your gun down, ok?") but also don't be overly hostile ("drop the fucken gun asshole!").  Keep it fun, and people will have fun with you (sometimes any ways!).

Edited May 4, 2014 by Bororm

[cuddly_rabbit 102]

I stay away from groups when playing solo.
The chance to be killed by groups is incredibly high, as many are in a hunting fever.

It's cool that you gave him a chance.

And I would have taken your offer.

The guy in your situation was just dumb.

[bfisher 561]

Best not to take chances.  You don't know if they just have a busted mic or if they are about to go crazy and charge you.

 

 

Most players tend to get a bit nervous about dropping their weapon.  Usually if they keep it on their back and don't face directly at you is usually safe enough.

Edited May 4, 2014 by bfisher

[pilgrim* 3513]

 I think "standard military tactics" is a good point. Ask yourself - firstly in the case of others, and secondly with yourself as the subject:

 

How would you expect an individual to react when he realised he was the focus of a combat-zone standard 'rules of engagement' squad movement?

 

1) try to escape

2) fight

3) put down his weapon, say he's pleased to see you, and let you put the handcuffs on

[enforcer1975 1111]

You said you wanted more than just shooting but you surrounded a player in an aggressive manner and told him to surrender or else...How would you have reacted if i came up to you in the same situation and told you to surrender? Wouldn't a "Hello, let's talk" have been better?

[Bororm 1156]

I'll add the caveat that while I've successfully held up a large amount of players, the amount of success I've had at airfields (namely the neaf) is very low.  Most people at airfields are already completely kitted out, and a guy with an m4 or something is probably feeling pretty good about his odds if he's in a building.

 

The fact that your guy chose to run out makes me think he just didn't really believe you, or maybe didn't even hear you.  If it was the first bit, I suppose you could have thrown a shot in at him/over his head or something to let him know you're serious.

 

Again though it really depends on how he was reacting to you.  When holding some one up, they need to actually see you've got the advantage in some form but as I said you don't want to come across as overly hostile either.

 

 

I'll also just add that your sniper guy probably shouldn't have taken that second shot.  You had his legs broken, that would have been a good time to talk him down some more if you were serious about keeping him alive.  I wouldn't have handcuffed him either, just disarm him if he was knocked out.

 

Again, it's about being in control but letting people still feel like they also still have a little bit of control over what's going on.  You can't just strip a guy of options completely and expect him to play along, there's nothing in it for them.

Edited May 4, 2014 by Bororm

[mithrawndo 166]

Some interesting points here. We're dealing with human psychology here, which is a fascinating subject in itself.

 

 

Impossible to know without his side.  You didn't do anything wrong, some players just don't want to cooperate.

I'll say that the way you speak to people goes a long way to get them to do what you want though...

 

...you need to make people feel comfortable as there's not a ton of incentive for a player who doesn't want to cooperate...

 

...you want to be confident but not pushy.  Keep things casual, but make sure you're in charge. 

 

Apologies for the annotation, but I think I kept the meat of the meal. I'm blessed with a commanding voice and a confident manner (verging on pompous), which is why I often end up calling the shots in team games I play, despite being totally and utterly tactically inept (I've been a commander for 300+ fleets in EVE and a 25 man heroic raid leader in WoW, both of which to my mind have more resemblance to this game than any FPS you'd care to mention). However I am cursed with a Scottish brogue, which can sound guttural and aggressive even when being friendly. As all the target had to go on was my voice, perhaps this would have spooked him? I was careful not to offer choices or surrender the advantage to him...

 

Most players tend to get a bit nervous about dropping their weapon.  Usually if they keep it on their back and don't face directly at you is usually safe enough.

 

Thank you for this, that's good advice. I'll change my tack next time as you're absolutely right - I'd be loathe to drop my weapon completely too.

 

You said you wanted more than just shooting but you surrounded a player in an aggressive manner and told him to surrender or else...How would you have reacted if i came up to you in the same situation and told you to surrender? Wouldn't a "Hello, let's talk" have been better?

 

I would have surrendered, and perhaps if the opportunity arose I may have tried to put up a fight after I had started a discourse with my assailant. the "Surrender or else" was simply an honest statement, given in a jovial but commanding tone. We gave him a good thirty seconds before I revealed that we had a sniper on the door, too.

 

Thanks for all the responses guys, it's enlightening to hear how people react!

[UltimateGentleman 355]

In answer to the question "Why do some players do everything possible to avoid interaction?"

 

Because you've probably spent at least an hour trying to find some gear, then a bunch of dudes come hold you up.

You know what people are like in this game, KOS or they mess around with your and take your stuff. Or they pretend they're nice and then are like holy shit he's got a cool pistol I want that *BANG*

 

People just aren't trustworthy.

 

I've played the game over 90 hours and only encountered like three people using mic's, never found anyone with guns who tried to be nice.

Literally not once have I found a group of dudes and not instantly had them turn round and shoot.

 

So if I was that guy depending on what guns I had, I'd just dig in and shoot anyone who comes through the door it's not worth the risk especially not if you don't have a mic to talk people down with.

[mithrawndo 166]

I'll add the caveat that while I've successfully held up a large amount of players, the amount of success I've had at airfields (namely the neaf) is very low.  Most people at airfields are already completely kitted out, and a guy with an m4 or something is probably feeling pretty good about his odds if he's in a building.

 

The fact that your guy chose to run out makes me think he just didn't really believe you, or maybe didn't even hear you.  If it was the first bit, I suppose you could have thrown a shot in at him/over his head or something to let him know you're serious.

 

Again though it really depends on how he was reacting to you.  When holding some one up, they need to actually see you've got the advantage in some form but as I said you don't want to come across as overly hostile either.

 

 

I'll also just add that your sniper guy probably shouldn't have taken that second shot.  You had his legs broken, that would have been a good time to talk him down some more if you were serious about keeping him alive.  I wouldn't have handcuffed him either, just disarm him if he was knocked out.

 

Again, it's about being in control but letting people still feel like they also still have a little bit of control over what's going on.  You can't just strip a guy of options completely and expect him to play along, there's nothing in it for them.

 

That's an interesting point; perhaps it was as simple as the guy was playing with no sound? Unlikely as that may be, it's possible - though doesn't explain why he spun like a marionette when I made initial contact.

 

You're right about the handcuffs too - because he logged off I couldn't recover them. As for the sniper? I'm still torn. The target was trying to draw a weapon whilst on the ground, and it was only in post mortem that we realised his legs must have been broken. Our sniper was so delighted that he got the guy down whilst moving at full sprint, transversally from 500m that we weren't getting much else other than exclamations of delight from him over the mic at first!

We had plenty of cover too, and could have easily tried to talk him down. Thanks for that.

[cuddly_rabbit 102]

I'll add the caveat that while I've successfully held up a large amount of players, the amount of success I've had at airfields (namely the neaf) is very low.  Most people at airfields are already completely kitted out, and a guy with an m4 or something is probably feeling pretty good about his odds if he's in a building.

 

The fact that your guy chose to run out makes me think he just didn't really believe you, or maybe didn't even hear you.  If it was the first bit, I suppose you could have thrown a shot in at him/over his head or something to let him know you're serious.

 

Again though it really depends on how he was reacting to you.  When holding some one up, they need to actually see you've got the advantage in some form but as I said you don't want to come across as overly hostile either.

 

 

I'll also just add that your sniper guy probably shouldn't have taken that second shot.  You had his legs broken, that would have been a good time to talk him down some more if you were serious about keeping him alive.  I wouldn't have handcuffed him either, just disarm him if he was knocked out.

 

Again, it's about being in control but letting people still feel like they also still have a little bit of control over what's going on.  You can't just strip a guy of options completely and expect him to play along, there's nothing in it for them.

Very good post by pointing out what can be changed to increase the chance of getting a reaction back.

There is always space for improvement.

[mithrawndo 166]

In answer to the question "Why do some players do everything possible to avoid interaction?"

 

Because you've probably spent at least an hour trying to find some gear, then a bunch of dudes come hold you up.

You know what people are like in this game, KOS or they mess around with your and take your stuff. Or they pretend they're nice and then are like holy shit he's got a cool pistol I want that *BANG*

 

People just aren't trustworthy.

 

I've played the game over 90 hours and only encountered like three people using mic's, never found anyone with guns who tried to be nice.

Literally not once have I found a group of dudes and not instantly had them turn round and shoot.

 

So if I was that guy depending on what guns I had, I'd just dig in and shoot anyone who comes through the door it's not worth the risk especially not if you don't have a mic to talk people down with.

 

What gets me most of all is that he didn't try and fight; he tried to run. He only tried to fight when the opportunity to run was taken away from him. When we searched his gear after he logged off, he had an M4 with a couple of magazines and an FN for backup. He could have at least tried to pull the old "pistol in the pants" trick on us.

 

As for the rest, it's is a sad example of the self perpetuating cycle of distrust that means as the player base of the game grows, so the quality of the interactions seemingly decreases. I challenge your assertion here: Yes, most players will shoot on sight but if you make the effort to engage players more (as I am consciously trying to do now, hence this topic being the first of many intending to analyse the psychological element of the game's encounters), so this trend can be arrested and more fun can be had by all.

 

I'm sure I'm not alone: In most successful hostage situations I've encountered - from both sides - if you play it cool and do what your told, you'll come out of it alive. Hell, you'll often come out of it better off than when you started!

[UltimateGentleman 355]

Something I think they BADLY need to add is the ability to walk with your hands up so you can walk out a building and surrender because just putting a gun away is no way surrendering and you can just go in to a run instantly anyway.

[mithrawndo 166]

Something I think they BADLY need to add is the ability to walk with your hands up so you can walk out a building and surrender because just putting a gun away is no way surrendering and you can just go in to a run instantly anyway.

 

Not sure if there are threads on the suggestions board about this yet, but if not: Go. Now. Make it so!

[UltimateGentleman 355]

What gets me most of all is that he didn't try and fight; he tried to run. He only tried to fight when the opportunity to run was taken away from him. When we searched his gear after he logged off, he had an M4 with a couple of magazines and an FN for backup. He could have at least tried to pull the old "pistol in the pants" trick on us.

 

As for the rest, it's is a sad example of the self perpetuating cycle of distrust that means as the player base of the game grows, so the quality of the interactions seemingly decreases. I challenge your assertion here: Yes, most players will shoot on sight but if you make the effort to engage players more (as I am consciously trying to do now, hence this topic being the first of many intending to analyse the psychological element of the game's encounters), so this trend can be arrested and more fun can be had by all.

 

I'm sure I'm not alone: In most successful hostage situations I've encountered - from both sides - if you play it cool and do what your told, you'll come out of it alive. Hell, you'll often come out of it better off than when you started!

 

 

True you can come out alive but you never know if you will they might just take all your cool stuff and make you leave, so why risk it? It's mostly bandits that play so you have a very low chance of surviving running away is easiest because if people have guns out you can run like 4 times as fast as them.

[Electi 149]

 

TL;DR: Go away or stop being lazy and read!

No!

I will just say that's when i meet ppl i dayz i just get sad about how stupid they are, that's why i just walk(WALK) to every city, and do not give a fuck about what happens(only kill zombies), like Chuck Norris.

[Bororm 1156]

The way you act as a victim also greatly impacts the outcome.  If you act whiny or rude or whatever, and I'm holding you up, honestly I'll probably end up killing you if you get on my nerves.  I probably won't hold you up to begin with really if you're already coming into it with talking shit or whatever.

 

I try to always be honest when I hold people up though, and if I tell some one I'm not going to kill them or whatever I keep my word.  I think that's important.  I also only take what I need from a guy, or in some cases disarm them but I try not to leave them in too bad of shape, even offer help if I can.

 

I'll be honest though, I rarely let people hold me up because you are right and most of them just want to force feed you poison or something.  If I get caught off guard and legitimately held up, I'll play along till I can tell their intentions, and if they're just going to be douches about it that's when I'll try to fight back or run.

[Bororm 1156]

I never wear shoes too, and usually when we hold people up and are greeted by the typical "what do you want?" we tell them we want their shoes.  Lots of times people get a kick out of it, although you'd be surprised at how many people are also unwilling to part with their shoes.

 

When they do drop their shoes, I put them on then take them back off and tell them some excuse about how they're the wrong size, or color or whatever and give them back.

[mithrawndo 166]

No!

I will just say that's when i meet ppl i dayz i just get sad about how stupid they are, that's why i just walk(WALK) to every city, and do not give a fuck about what happens(only kill zombies), like Chuck Norris.

 

When I play alone I tend to do this too. I'll walk the road on the east coast, picking off zombies with a pistol to try and attract some human attention. Guess that's kind of sad when I put it like that...

 

 

 I rarely let people hold me up because you are right and most of them just want to force feed you poison or something.  If I get caught off guard and legitimately held up, I'll play along till I can tell their intentions, and if they're just going to be douches about it that's when I'll try to fight back or run.

 

This is exactly how I act on the receiving end. I'll try to keep a weapon concealed as long as possible and if the encounter is going south?

 

"If I'm going down, I'm taking you all with me!"

 

Hence I can't wait for explosives to be a thing!

[Electi 149]

 

Hence I can't wait for explosives to be a thing!

Yeah, and traps.