I wish we were forced to interact with others to survive...

[Deathlove 2280]

In my dreams will someone make a Romero game worthy of the name; Fiddlers roof just didn't cut it :)

Not to go offtopic but you know no game company has made a decent Rambo game i dont think yet. >.>

 

Ooops i misread you lol.

 

Yes, yes i do hope one day some one makes an awesome zombie game.

Edited May 5, 2014 by Deathlove

[gwartham 13]

There is NOTHING wrong with a shooter game but this should ENHANCE the zombie experience not dumb it down like every other shooter and take the other elements away or make them minor trivialities.

 

I think it has far more to do with the limitations of programming said game, and making such a game where it cat be easily outwitted like the zeds sofar in this game.

Not to go offtopic but you know no game company has made a decent Rambo game i dont think yet. >.>

 

ROMERO

 

Not rambo :)

[Deathlove 2280]

I think it has far more to do with the limitations of programming said game, and making such a game where it cat be easily outwitted like the zeds sofar in this game.

 

ROMERO

 

Not rambo :)

Its 5 AM in the morning almost give me a break im running on fumes lol.

[gwartham 13]

We're not just along for the ride, blindly accepting every twist and turn the developers take us on. They value the community's feedback. We're discussing and giving feedback. The community (not only in this thread) has made it quite clear that they want more from this game than slow-paced combat versus other players.

 

People can dismiss the PVE aspect of DayZ until they're blue in the face, but until players control the actual zombies, it's equally (if not more) about PVE. PVP should be equally as important, but the game shouldn't be based on it like it is now. We just want to help steer this game clear of the same fate the mod suffered.

 

 

I do not know where you are as far as your level of gaming progression goes, but mine has evolved so far from PvE, that the only challenge I find is that of another player.

 

If this game was all about PvE, it would be a ghost town within a month.

 

I just cant imagine this game ever being a fulfilling PvE experience.

 

Not that it cant be done, just saying that this game, on the platform they are building it on.....I mean cmon.....

[J4G 92]

For players life value.

Im still in for the statistics, i think that it will bring more value to the character than anything else.

How long your character lived, how many kilometers you travelled and so on.

Dont know what devs ever said about statistic, but i know that theres a lot of freaks for statistics.

 

 

For communication.

We have unused walkietalkies and some unusable(?) radios here and there.

Would that encourage to people use them more, if one the channels renamed like global etc?

And if those unused bigger radios would work also, you might join the conversation, even without walkies.

 

 

For common enemy,

We just have to wait that zeds get fixed.

Hoping just that we get hardest, fastest and scariest zeds we ever see in any game,

with toughest zeds those two ideas above might get more value?

[StoutAle 69]

    As others have said, I don't want to be FORCED to deal with people to survive or I die.  Bottom line is a game like that wouldn't work anyway because any MMO style game without the ability to solo is doomed.  I don't have an issue teaming up, but only if I want to.  I don't KoS ever, but I also don't want to have to rely on someone else to survive.  Also sets up large groups (clans/guilds) to really own an area and harass anyone they wanted.  Way to easy to exploit something like that. 

 

  Besides, it's really not reasonable that someone couldn't exist alone.  Tough? Sure, but it's possible.  Lets be honest if I'm alone and starving to death I can either forage, loot or kill someone and take the food they have.  To suggest I HAVE to be social to exist just doesn't make sense.

[liquidsnake 275]

If the zeds would be the same as in NWAF in the mod, it'd be golden. I had to crawl all over NWAF to not get 7 of them chasing me in pursuit of human flesh. Looting NWAF couldn't be done without the proper gear. That's how it should be in cities and large villages, or maybe even like the crash sites? 

[darth_vaizard 42]

I believe we are trying to make it more complicated than it is.  
 

We have a common enemy, just not nearly enough.  More zombies are already on the way though so at least that problem is on the teams mind.

In order to interact with players on a deeper level than just killing them, weapons, food, and EVERYTHING else a player needs to survive need to be almost impossible to find.  Also, on that note, lets make starvation more of an actual process of wasting away instead of just falling unconscious because the character hasn't had a morsel for an hour...  Same with thirst.  Constant, persistent debuffs (who knows, maybe even some visual changes) that last for as long as a human can survive without food or water (a few weeks and a few days respectively) would do nicely.  It should also be a serious decision to take your own life.  We have entirely too many people jumping off the nearest factory building or lighthouse and for what, to spawn somewhere else?  Just let us spawn in the area we want.  There's no need to be completely random unless you don't have friends to play with at the time, but that's a different topic...

I believe there is already a lot of risk in interacting with people but for the wrong reasons.  Sure if you stand out in the open, you're asking to be shot but, if another player hears your casual conversation from 40m away, you're basically asking to get shot later.  Reduce the distance in which you can hear players to a more reasonable distance OR implement some kind of system where that distance depends on the volume of the players voice coming into the mic so we can whisper and yell at people.

A hostile environment that can kill you just as easily as any player or zombie will only further push players together.  We should all FEAR the environment, not just each other.

[makomachine 263]

Buh-Buh-Buh-Beans! Very well written and agree with everything you said pretty much. Zombie pressures is my only thought at how you fix it. The more people are forced to work together to survive, and have a common enemy, the better. Adding to this, there needs also to be an incentive to staying alive as well. Gear is the thing you most hate losing when you die. That's easily replaced. We need things that aren't 'respawn replaceable' in the near term. Things like skill development (maybe crafting, weapon proficiency, etc.) as well as an aging mechanic that illustrates status by your character looks. If you have more to lose, you have more reason to stay alive and not YOLO your way through the game.

Edited May 5, 2014 by makomachine

[StoutAle 69]

Buh-Buh-Buh-Beans! Very well written and agree with everything you said pretty much. Zombie pressures is my only thought at how you fix it. The more people are forced to work together to survive, and have a common enemy, the better. Adding to this, there needs also to be an incentive to staying alive as well. Gear is the thing you most hate losing when you die. That's easily replaced. We need things that aren't 'respawn replaceable' in the near term. Things like skill development (maybe crafting, weapon proficiency, etc.) as well as an aging mechanic that illustrates status by your character looks. If you have more to lose, you have more reason to stay alive and not YOLO your way through the game.

 

This cuts both ways and would only make things worse.  Think about it, people are paranoid now with only easy to replace gear to lose.  You think this is going to be lessened by having skill points at risk?  No, it would just mean more would shoot on sight instead of taking a chance.  The more reason you give someone to stay alive the more he will want to stay alive and the less risks he will take (interacting with anyone else is always a risk).  So while this sounds good, it wouldn't play out like you hope it would actually push things the opposite way.

[makomachine 263]

This cuts both ways and would only make things worse. Think about it, people are paranoid now with only easy to replace gear to lose. You think this is going to be lessened by having skill points at risk? No, it would just mean more would shoot on sight instead of taking a chance. The more reason you give someone to stay alive the more he will want to stay alive and the less risks he will take (interacting with anyone else is always a risk). So while this sounds good, it wouldn't play out like you hope it would actually push things the opposite way.

It has to be paired with the fact that if you aren't working with others you are never going to age in game anyway. Agree that without this pressure from the Zeds, it would go the opposite direction. Key is forcing people to work together even temporarily. When the body of the person firing the M4 is more important than the M4 he/she holds, then you'll end the KOS 'problem'.

Edited May 5, 2014 by makomachine

[StoutAle 69]

It has to be paired with the fact that if you aren't working with others you are never going to age in game anyway. Agree that without this pressure from the Zeds, it would go the opposite direction. Key is forcing people to work together even temporarily. When the body of the person firing the M4 is more important than the M4 he/she holds, then you'll end the KOS 'problem'.

 

You absolutely missed the point and are simply flawed in your logic.  If your more worried about losing your character you think people will be LESS likely to KoS and MORE likely to take a chance being nice to others?  That makes zero sense.  No logic to that at all.  Plus again with the forcing people to group, that will kill the game.  Every MMO out there has gone to MORE ability for players to play solo not less.  Force people to group and this game won't last, sure you will have a hardcore group that loves it but it won't be enough to sustain it.  I have real life friends I like to team with, other then that I haven't really grouped up with anyone else (and odds are I won't).  With that said I play solo when my friends aren't online, force me to only play in teams and I'd simply quit.  You could simply say "good quit" but in a game with servers that need constant money to run you need more players buying the game not to chase players off. 

 

Bottom line, Force players to group and you alienate a large part of the player base.  Make staying alive more important to people you won't reduce, but actually increase KoSing.  People aren't going to say "oh, I really don't want to die, I have built up ABC items and XXX skill points now,  I should run over and make friends with that fully geared guy I don't know".  No, they will go into self preservation mode and just kill that guy more then they would now with very little to lose.

[makomachine 263]

You absolutely missed the point and are simply flawed in your logic.  If your more worried about losing your character you think people will be LESS likely to KoS and MORE likely to take a chance being nice to others?  That makes zero sense.  No logic to that at all.  Plus again with the forcing people to group, that will kill the game.  Every MMO out there has gone to MORE ability for players to play solo not less.  Force people to group and this game won't last, sure you will have a hardcore group that loves it but it won't be enough to sustain it.  I have real life friends I like to team with, other then that I haven't really grouped up with anyone else (and odds are I won't).  With that said I play solo when my friends aren't online, force me to only play in teams and I'd simply quit.  You could simply say "good quit" but in a game with servers that need constant money to run you need more players buying the game not to chase players off. 

 

Bottom line, Force players to group and you alienate a large part of the player base.  Make staying alive more important to people you won't reduce, but actually increase KoSing.  People aren't going to say "oh, I really don't want to die, I have built up ABC items and XXX skill points now,  I should run over and make friends with that fully geared guy I don't know".  No, they will go into self preservation mode and just kill that guy more then they would now with very little to lose.

I bought the game as a zombie apocalypse survival game. I want it as real as possible - your motivations are obviously different. They have to be, as lone wolf hasn't worked in society since the dawn of man, that's the reason we had clans, tribes, etc. if you are alone, you are most of the time dead in short order. If the apocalypse really happened - you'd much rather be surrounded by humans than trying to sleep at night with one eye open. I don't have flawed logic - we just play for different reasons. I'm happy with my purchase no matter how the game ends up as I've long since got my money's worth out of it. Just my opinion and hope for the game.

[StoutAle 69]

I bought the game as a zombie apocalypse survival game. I want it as real as possible - your motivations are obviously different. They have to be, as lone wolf hasn't worked in society since the dawn of man, that's the reason we had clans, tribes, etc. if you are alone, you are most of the time dead in short order. If the apocalypse really happened - you'd much rather be surrounded by humans than trying to sleep at night with one eye open. I don't have flawed logic - we just play for different reasons. I'm happy with my purchase no matter how the game ends up as I've long since got my money's worth out of it. Just my opinion and hope for the game.

 

No, your logic is flawed because this is a game and your trying to relate it to a real situation.  You do realize that the one major flaw there isn't how we play different it's actually that I can't get shot for real in a game right?  I don't get cold or hungry or need company of others to not go crazy.  I don't need to build the society up again as much as possible.  I don't need others to help me in this game because I can carry anything I need in a bag that I can carry and sprint with for hours on end.  I understand people want this to be like real life, but in the end it's still a game and thinking you can reduce KoS is a pipe dream.  There hasn't been one PvP based game (and this IS an open world PvP no rules, no limits game like it or not) where people didn't take pleasure in griefing and KoSing.  It's the nature of the game. 

 

Also, don't presume to know why I play/bought the game simply because I point out your logic is flawed.  I'd LOVE the game to be less KoS and more friendly interaction, it's simply just not going to happen by making people want to live more or making people characters have more to lose because that would push them to trust less people.  See I can't look at a game and know what I would love to see and also see it objectively and understand it can't happen perfectly.  Wanting something like you (and actually I do also) doesn't help change how human nature is in a game.  Hence the reason Dean said the game is flawed to start.  The one thing you can't control in an open world PvP game is human nature and in that type of game people who like to grief and KoS and treat it as nothing more then a FPS will always do what they want and that's what causes the chaos we have not.  That's why the game lots of us would love to see simply can't exist (hence it's flawed from the start).  Point out one open world PvP game that didn't end up filled with griefers and KoSers.  Some will say the mod in early days, but that didn't last and it can be argued that there was still tons of KoS there too, while still more team work then in standalone it also wasn't a game in itself it was a mod from a game.

[pilgrim* 3513]

Everyone talking about zombies, not about interacting with other players

But ok

Here's a Really Simple idea to change the zombie mechanics:

 

Every time you kill 1 zombie,  2 zombies spawn

 

.every time.

 

I'll save the rest for later so you-all don't get confused issues..

 

xx pilgrim

[makomachine 263]

No, your logic is flawed because this is a game and your trying to relate it to a real situation.  You do realize that the one major flaw there isn't how we play different it's actually that I can't get shot for real in a game right?  I don't get cold or hungry or need company of others to not go crazy.  I don't need to build the society up again as much as possible.  I don't need others to help me in this game because I can carry anything I need in a bag that I can carry and sprint with for hours on end.  I understand people want this to be like real life, but in the end it's still a game and thinking you can reduce KoS is a pipe dream.  There hasn't been one PvP based game (and this IS an open world PvP no rules, no limits game like it or not) where people didn't take pleasure in griefing and KoSing.  It's the nature of the game. 

I'm arguing for a change in the premiss of the game with added zed pressures forcing player interaction or die with a 'cost' other than gear. You are arguing that it's impossible to accomplish and KOS isn't going away regardless. I reserve judgement on that at this point in development. I won't presume to understand your motivations for purchase - and to be completely clear, I don't have a problem with the current game environment. I've had a blast. I just would like to see something in a game that has never been accomplished - and would like an opportunity to play a true zed survival simulator. I've got 100's of PvP shooters to choose from - I'd like something different here. No need to argue that it can or can't happen - as stated, it's just my hope for the game.

[Grimey Rick 3417]

Maybe the problem is you've watched too many zombie movies and expect every zombie game to be like L4D.

 

<sarcasm>

 

You're absolutely right! I expect every zombie game to be about four players battling through almost endless waves of Witches, Spitters, Smokers, Chargers, Boomers, Jockeys, Hunters and Tanks! God forbid a community set in an "MMO" universe work together on some (any?) level with the intent of actually surviving a zombie apocalypse, amirite?

 

</sarcasm>

 

EDIT: In its current state this game is a douchebag survival game. Which, I guess, if you considered these asinine players to be zombies, which they pretty much are, face-rolling their way through high-populated areas playing a dumbed down version of ARMA, then yeah, I guess this is a zombie survival game as these people contribute about as much to the game.

Edited May 5, 2014 by Grimey Rick

[StoutAle 69]

I'm arguing for a change in the premiss of the game with added zed pressures forcing player interaction or die with a 'cost' other than gear. You are arguing that it's impossible to accomplish and KOS isn't going away regardless. I reserve judgement on that at this point in development. I won't presume to understand your motivations for purchase - and to be completely clear, I don't have a problem with the current game environment. I've had a blast. I just would like to see something in a game that has never been accomplished - and would like an opportunity to play a true zed survival simulator. I've got 100's of PvP shooters to choose from - I'd like something different here. No need to argue that it can or can't happen - as stated, it's just my hope for the game.

 

It's really not an argument.  Dean said it wouldn't work.   That doesn't make it true, but he said it because he realized how people are.  Again I don't think there has been one long term successful open world PvP game that hasn't been simply a shoot out fest.  My thinking is simply based on history of games with open world PvP and the fact you will always have people who log in for no other reason then to make others day suck.  With people like that it makes others paranoid which makes them KoS more then they would normally.  Kill or be killed mentality kicks in no game has been able to eliminate that enough to turn an open world PvP game into anything but that.

[UltimateGentleman 355]

Making it actually difficult to survive would be a step in the right direction.

 

In real life in this situation? Screw you, if I see you I'm keeping away or shooting you, you probably have what I need namely food.

I'm not limited to one area, I can go explore and find more food than I could ever eat.

 

But DayZ, limited supply and borders.

There should be a lot less food so you should have to consider talking to some guy strolling down the street instead of just killing him, because you probably won't be able to carry all the food he has, run out of yours and starve to death.

 

Then you and that guy after a successful trade might think "Y'know what, how about we team up? Two people can cover twice the area, finding twice the food"

 

Being a lone wolf is just incredibly easy some houses ALWAYS have food unless people have taken it already.

When they get 64 bit servers up maybe we could have ones that only need reset after 5 or even 6 hours? By that point, especially with more players in the server most if not all of the food should have been collected.

 

So you're going to want to not shoot everyone you see since you'll probably ruin their food and starve to death.

[St. Jimmy 1631]

This, quite literally IS the most dumbest idea I have heard on these forums and that is saying a lot as there have been some pretty dumb suggestions. WOW!

Yeah right... Have you heard my suggestion about if there would be for example 4 public hives that the servers are connected and if you die in one of them you can't play in the servers that are connected to the hive you died for day or two? How do you like that combined what I suggested? :D Numbers naturally can be tweaked. I don't mind if I can't play for a while and DayZ has a chance to be pretty hardcore game.

Oh and more about the topic.

I really can't wait for realistic fatigue and carrying system. Goodbye carrying backpack, vest, trousers and jacket with full of stuff, a weapon in your hand and then trying to even carry a wheel with you. If the game would be really hardcore how much you can run and how much stuff you can carry with you, I believe people will co-operate more. Carrying engine and three tires to repair a car would require a ton of co-operating because zombies would catch you easily when you carry heavy stuff. If you want to carry a lot of stuff you would better have some good backup friends.

[xalienax 621]

<sarcasm>

 

You're absolutely right! I expect every zombie game to be about four players battling through almost endless waves of Witches, Spitters, Smokers, Chargers, Boomers, Jockeys, Hunters and Tanks! God forbid a community set in an "MMO" universe work together on some (any?) level with the intent of actually surviving a zombie apocalypse, amirite?

 

</sarcasm>

 

EDIT: In its current state this game is a douchebag survival game. Which, I guess, if you considered these asinine players to be zombies, which they pretty much are, face-rolling their way through high-populated areas playing a dumbed down version of ARMA, then yeah, I guess this is a zombie survival game as these people contribute about as much to the game.

Funny thing. arma can be considered mor realistic in many ways then the SA is. EG weapon handling, attachment system directly effecting weapon stats, and dispersion cones. Not trying to be a "douchebag" just pointing out how easy it is to cherry-pick which elements are more or less realistic.

[StoutAle 69]

Making it actually difficult to survive would be a step in the right direction.

 

In real life in this situation? Screw you, if I see you I'm keeping away or shooting you, you probably have what I need namely food.

I'm not limited to one area, I can go explore and find more food than I could ever eat.

 

But DayZ, limited supply and borders.

There should be a lot less food so you should have to consider talking to some guy strolling down the street instead of just killing him, because you probably won't be able to carry all the food he has, run out of yours and starve to death.

 

Then you and that guy after a successful trade might think "Y'know what, how about we team up? Two people can cover twice the area, finding twice the food"

 

Being a lone wolf is just incredibly easy some houses ALWAYS have food unless people have taken it already.

When they get 64 bit servers up maybe we could have ones that only need reset after 5 or even 6 hours? By that point, especially with more players in the server most if not all of the food should have been collected.

 

So you're going to want to not shoot everyone you see since you'll probably ruin their food and starve to death.

 

I wish it would work this way, it simply won't.  The problem is when you walk up to the guy you have to hope he doesn't kill you wanting your food.  If he is nice initially you have to wonder if he's still going to be nice when you find that first item you both need or are you going to be nice when he finds the item you have been wanting?  Two people can cover twice the ground finding twice the amount of food? If your right then one person can cover half the ground finding half the food.  Either way you survive on the same food, one way with risk the other way without.  Most will chose the path without risk which is killing the guy or leaving him be. 

 

The other issue in a game that isn't in real life is third party chat.  In real life players can't be setting up ambushes or calling for there friend to kill you because he's a fresh spawn.  In real life the guy can't be having a chat with you as well as multiple others at the same time setting you up to get killed.  So that's always in the back of peoples minds when dealing with someone they don't know adding to the risk.

 

In order to get people to really team up you can't make things tougher, or make them want to live more that only makes them value there personal character more.  You need to make it so when you team up you have an advantage you can't have when solo.  Anything less and there becomes no advantage to teaming up.

[Grimey Rick 3417]

I wish it would work this way, it simply won't.  The problem is when you walk up to the guy you have to hope he doesn't kill you wanting your food.  If he is nice initially you have to wonder if he's still going to be nice when you find that first item you both need or are you going to be nice when he finds the item you have been wanting?  Two people can cover twice the ground finding twice the amount of food? If your right then one person can cover half the ground finding half the food.  Either way you survive on the same food, one way with risk the other way without.  Most will chose the path without risk which is killing the guy or leaving him be. 

 

The other issue in a game that isn't in real life is third party chat.  In real life players can't be setting up ambushes or calling for there friend to kill you because he's a fresh spawn.  In real life the guy can't be having a chat with you as well as multiple others at the same time setting you up to get killed.  So that's always in the back of peoples minds when dealing with someone they don't know adding to the risk.

 

In order to get people to really team up you can't make things tougher, or make them want to live more that only makes them value there personal character more.  You need to make it so when you team up you have an advantage you can't have when solo.  Anything less and there becomes no advantage to teaming up.

 

I completely agree. Let's make the game so bloody difficult the only thing keeping you playing it is an addiction. When I first read about DayZ back in December (yep, I'm a newbie to the franchise with 950 hours logged on the standalone!) I thought it was going to be that brutal, relentlessly difficult game I'd been looking for. Even though we're still in the alpha, judging from everything I've read and what I've witnessed in-game, it's a walk in the park. Will this change? I hope so.

 

The difficulty of the environment is going to dictate whether or not this game will live up to the hype. Not the clothes, vehicles, bases or weapons they add along the way. Once the unforgiving environment is in place, then we'll be in good shape.

[xalienax 621]

people already team up. thier called clans. find one that suits your type of play. why is the meta ignored completely?

[UltimateGentleman 355]

I wish it would work this way, it simply won't.  The problem is when you walk up to the guy you have to hope he doesn't kill you wanting your food.  If he is nice initially you have to wonder if he's still going to be nice when you find that first item you both need or are you going to be nice when he finds the item you have been wanting?  Two people can cover twice the ground finding twice the amount of food? If your right then one person can cover half the ground finding half the food.  Either way you survive on the same food, one way with risk the other way without.  Most will chose the path without risk which is killing the guy or leaving him be. 

 

The other issue in a game that isn't in real life is third party chat.  In real life players can't be setting up ambushes or calling for there friend to kill you because he's a fresh spawn.  In real life the guy can't be having a chat with you as well as multiple others at the same time setting you up to get killed.  So that's always in the back of peoples minds when dealing with someone they don't know adding to the risk.

 

In order to get people to really team up you can't make things tougher, or make them want to live more that only makes them value there personal character more.  You need to make it so when you team up you have an advantage you can't have when solo.  Anything less and there becomes no advantage to teaming up.

 

 

Yeah but if you shoot that guy, what if he has 20 of the 300 cans of food that spawn in the map? You've just destroyed all that food making it harder for you and everyone else to survive.

 

They need to make it harder as the guy said above it is a walk in the park, a few illnesses and such won't make it all that difficult all you need to do is avoid rain and have plenty charcoal tabs it won't get much harder with minor details like that.

 

It's an incredibly easy game the only thing that makes it difficult is when you find a group of bandits or someone on a hill is sniping you. Or currently if it lags out and you slide off some stairs breaking your legs.

Unless they make it harder the end game won't be much different there'll just be a lot more avoidable status effects and stuff all with cures and preventative measures.

 

Food should be really scarce and not last as long as it does currently my character has been alive for like 12 hours and has been running for about 6 of those roughly, all that and all he's had to eat is a can of tactical bacon and the occasional apple I find. Bacon of which I have 4 more cans of along with 3 cans of peaches, 2 of spaghetti and 2 beans.

 

Other than if a player kills me I'm just not going to die because the game is so easy it is by no means hardcore survival.