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Morailty in gaming poll

Morals in games  

169 members have voted

  1. 1. When playing a game I tend to:

    • Play Good
      75
    • Play Evil
      14
    • Play with no particular intention
      80
  2. 2. Do you feel that you try to do in the game what you would do in reality?

    • Always
      21
    • Usually
      70
    • Sometimes
      42
    • Rarely
      28
    • Never
      8


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With 30 "heroes" so far, 7 "bad boys" and 31 "neutrals" the proportion concerning complaints about KoS and a lot of videos of it on youtube don't fit...

funny right?

I wont deny there is a lot of KOS. i do my part to perpetuate it daily both mod and SA. However, i think the whiners are juts a ver loud minority that blow the "issue" drasticly out of preportion. Killing is a part of the game, so is theft, banditry, etc.

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funny right?

I wont deny there is a lot of KOS. i do my part to perpetuate it daily both mod and SA. However, i think the whiners are juts a ver loud minority that blow the "issue" drasticly out of preportion. Killing is a part of the game, so is theft, banditry, etc.

 

From my experience i always get shot at first when i'm not in those particular areas.

Even i am jumpy when i have to enter the typical bambi and bandit zones ( along the south south coast and military sites are also a free fire zone for me ) and tend to shoot first and regret later, i never denied KoSing myself in certain places and situations ( headon encounters on the south and east coast, NWAF f.e. ) often enough i just let them be and move in after they moved out. It's better nobody ever notices me.

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From my experience i always get shot at first when i'm not in those particular areas.

Even i am jumpy when i have to enter the typical bambi and bandit zones ( along the south south coast and military sites are also a free fire zone for me ) and tend to shoot first and regret later, i never denied KoSing myself in certain places and situations ( headon encounters on the south and east coast, NWAF f.e. ) often enough i just let them be and move in after they moved out. It's better nobody ever notices me.

perfectly valid, but i think even you have to admit the extent of the screaming about KOS on these forums, and this desire to punish/restrict any PvP playstyles is kind of over the top. If i had never played and only read these forums, id expect to be literally spawn camped and dead within 10 seconds of spawning based on the level of hatred over KOSing.

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perfectly valid, but i think even you have to admit the extent of the screaming about KOS on these forums, and this desire to punish/restrict any PvP playstyles is kind of over the top. If i had never played and only read these forums, id expect to be literally spawn camped and dead within 10 seconds of spawning based on the level of hatred over KOSing.

 

Imo most complaints come from people who don't learn from their mistakes such as freshspawns having to go to f.e. Balota for military gear over and over again knowing a KoSer sits in the bushes or looting Cherno/Elektro for an extended time period or spending too much time on the coast literally waiting for the bullet.

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Im going to have to call BS on how many people ticked the "Play Good" vote.   I cant count how many people ive run into who have shot first and asked questions later.  Even after i have clearly made it known that i have/had no intention to shoot.

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What I meant was:

In the 2 years I've played the mod and then standalone I've met about 3 hackers that sounded over 20

And about 100 screaming 12 year old kids with riding around in a tank that wasn't avaliable or appear in my group and gun us all down while we fill them with bullets

So of those that spoke, less than if say 5% were older than 16

You're going off of what you think someone sounds like, which isn't exactly reliable data.

Also, hacking in DayZ compared to other games, mixed with only your personal experience, may not be enough to come up with solid data to make a broad generalization.

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Dare i ask what is "good" and what is "evil" ? Last time i checked there aren't really clear boundaries and it's more of subjective thing.

Well just what subjectively is good and evil for you.

I don't really want to get into a deep moral debate here, morality is subjective but I believe some kind of measure can be applied, especially in a cultural context.

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I find it fascinating how some say they like doing atrocities in games, but consider themselves good in real world. If you find this kind of things appealing, perhaps the only thing that stops you from embodying this in the real world are the consequences that you'll have to face. This is what I like the most in dayz: people making moral decisions in a world of no consequences

 

 

I'd completely disagree with this point, when I do something I consider morally wrong in a game, it's not because I can get away with it, but just because it's fun. It's called moral imagination, I'm a vegetarian in real life but happily hunt down, kill and eat animals in all the games I play. There are no consequences for me eating meat in real life, I do it because I feel it's ethical.  

Edited by tenshu

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I did vote that i always play with the best intentions. But it really depend twoard who, the good fortune of one makes the misfortune of another.

Edited by Lady Kyrah
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I did vote that i always play with the best intentions. But it really depend twoard who, the good fortune of one makes the misfortune of another.

Very true, I think we share moral views. I think morality is subjective but I think in a cultural & human well-being context we can make objective assessments. 

For example in certain cultures it's acceptable to beat your wife if she disobeys her husband, I think it's fine to say that the culture that doesn't do that will be more moral. 

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Very true, I think we share moral views. I think morality is subjective but I think in a cultural & human well-being context we can make objective assessments. 

For example in certain cultures it's acceptable to beat your wife if she disobeys her husband, I think it's fine to say that the culture that doesn't do that will be more moral. 

Not necessarily , they just do not share the same moral values. In some societies it is believed that murderers have to be executed, which you may or may not consider barbaric.

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(snip)

What an anthropological insight you have. I agree wholeheartedly.

 

Another problem is that it will not accurately reflect the people in the game, you are dealing with a small sample size of people with patience for a forum poll and only those who go to the forums. If you were to count how many people actually KoS just cause, you would come up with a far different number than what we have now.

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Not necessarily , they just do not share the same moral values. In some societies it is believed that murderers have to be executed, which you may or may not consider barbaric.

I'd say that objectively, a culture of not beating your wife due to a perceived wrong is morally better than a culture that encourages it.

Again, don't really want to get into a debate about it on the DayZ forum, but I share Sam Harris' stance on this: http://www.ted.com/talks/sam_harris_science_can_show_what_s_right

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In a game where you have to choose a side, I may sometimes choose to be evil.

In Dayz and games where there isn't a goal to achieve including RL, I would like the credits to say:

Joe - as Brennigan (example only)

MatchSticks - as himself

Edited by MatchSticks
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What an anthropological insight you have. I agree wholeheartedly.

 

Another problem is that it will not accurately reflect the people in the game, you are dealing with a small sample size of people with patience for a forum poll and only those who go to the forums. If you were to count how many people actually KoS just cause, you would come up with a far different number than what we have now.

Probably true, but those people may not be thinking they are doing anything wrong. 

 

As you say, most people KOS, I'd have to agree with this statement from my experience. Wouldn't a very reasoned stance to be.

"I get KOS 95% of the time, I don't want to die, so from now on I will shoot first" 

 

They may not have ever thought about this stance again despite the game world changing, so in their eyes they are still doing the right thing. 

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If I asked "do you play 'good' or 'evil'"  when you play chess, that would be difficult to understand.

 

In chess there are no moral choices and this poll is clearly about moral choices.

So if you want to know 'why' people do what they do in games,

I'm not asking Why, I never said I was, just interested in what choices people make.

And the word "morality" is from the real world, so the only way someone can be "not moral" in a game is by cheating at the game.

Again, I'm talking about how people react to moral choices in games, as stated in the original post.

Edited by tenshu

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In a game where you have to choose a side, I may sometimes choose to be evil.

In Dayz and games where there isn't a goal to achieve including RL, I would like the credits to say:

Joe - as Brennigan (example only)

MatchSticks - as himself

Yep

Also I think this is interesting:

So WHY do people (in the real world, before they start) choose the names they choose to play in the game... ??

 

My name 'Pilgrim' comes from the past, from internet stuff and another game/place entirely, I use it for continuity here - maybe it will turned up somewhere else or I'll hear from someone I already knew, it's a kind of address. But to play DayZ I have another name, something deliberately different.

I guess you can say if someone calls themselves "AxeKilla" it's pretty obvious why they chose that (maybe?), but a lot of people don't give themselves obvious names in this game, I think.

Just something I noticed.

Edited by pilgrim

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In chess there are no moral choices   ...//..

I'm talking about how people react to moral choices in games, as stated in the original post.

point understood  tenshukaku  BUT

 

Inside a game you can't make a moral choice, you can only play according to the rules or you can cheat. The rules say you can take other pieces off the board. You say "but those aren't pieces, they are human beings"

Now which game are we talking about here?

I swear I have not hurt a human being all the time I've played DayZ. I may have offended someone, but not any more than I've offended someone when I beat them at chess. Shake hands. "Play the game"?

I like to play black.

Edited by pilgrim

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point understood  tenshukaku  BUT

 

Inside a game you can't make a moral choice, you can only play according to the rules or you can cheat. The rules say you can take other pieces off the board. You say "but those aren't pieces, they are human beings"

Now which game are we talking about here?

I swear I have not hurt a human being all the time I've played DayZ. I may have offended someone, but not any more than I've offended someone when I beat them at chess. Shake hands. "Play the game"?

I like to play black.

 

It's a moral choice IN game, hacking/cheating are not part of the in game choices (usually).

 

When you are in game you would say 'I killed him', you don't need to point out that it's a simulation and you haven't actually killed him :P

 

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I "play with no intentions" and "sometimes" do what I would in real life....

 

That information doesnt sound like its going to be useful to your poll at all lol

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It's a moral choice IN game, hacking/cheating are not part of the in game choices (usually).

 

When you are in game you would say 'I killed him', you don't need to point out that it's a simulation and you haven't actually killed him :P

 

 

You don't need to point out that it's a simulation and you haven't actually killed him?  - I think you need to know it is.

 

Because if you don't know it's a simulation then you HAVE killed him

 

And if you play a simulation according to the rules, how can that be immoral?

 

xx

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I wondered how people usually play games (not just DayZ) when facing moral choices.

 

I realise people will often play 'good' then look at other play styles afterwards, but I'm interested in what you would choose initially.

 

For all intents and purposes, I kind of doubt we have any legitimate axe-murdering psychopaths on these forums. I think most people play however they feel at any given moment rather than adhering to a strict gaming policy. There are no consequences in this video game and we're intelligent enough to realize this, so we can take on the role of a delinquent and get away with it without having it affect our pscyhe.

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You don't need to point out that it's a simulation and you haven't actually killed him?  - I think you need to know it is.

 

Because if you don't know it's a simulation then you HAVE killed him

 

And if you play a simulation according to the rules, how can that be immoral?

 

xx

 

Perhaps he is referring to the people that are vocalizing mock rape, and sexual acts on people who are restrained, or incapacitated. Force feeding toxins, maiming people. I could care less about KoSers..I do not like them, but there is nothing wrong with that play style, but when you do not kill, and go through a series of "Clockwork Orange" on someone...that's a flag to me. It could mean nothing, but I could also mean that person is disturbed.  It also comes out more in groups, whereas an individual alone may not have done that. 

Edited by TheDoctorInDayz

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I'd say that objectively, a culture of not beating your wife due to a perceived wrong is morally better than a culture that encourages it.

Again, don't really want to get into a debate about it on the DayZ forum, but I share Sam Harris' stance on this: http://www.ted.com/talks/sam_harris_science_can_show_what_s_right

That was a very interesting talk which I tend to agree a lot with from a societal point of view. But we are talking about individuals here, individual notion of well being is subjective. For instance, if in order to stay alive i have to harm someone else, if in order to feed myself i have to steal from someone else (and condemn them to starving) these where the right decisions because they ensure my own survival.

 

My second point is that... while i liked the talk, this sounded like "moral imperialism", that we should "educate people" on how wrong their society is, and in essence, destroy what we perceive as a wrong value system. And it just become one value system fighting another.

Edited by Lady Kyrah
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That was a very interesting talk which I tend to agree a lot with from a societal point of view. But we are talking about individuals here, individual notion of well being is subjective. For instance, if in order to stay alive i have to harm someone else, if in order to feed myself i have to steal from someone else (and condemn them to starving) these where the right decisions because they ensure my own survival.

 

My second point is that... while i liked the talk, this sounded like "moral imperialism", that we should "educate people" on how wrong their society is, and in essence, destroy what we perceive as a wrong value system. And it just become one value system fighting another.

Yes, and for your first point you would be making a subjective moral decision for the good, I'm interested if you would make moral choices in games that you feel subjectively are morally wrong.

For your 2nd point, I think some value systems are so wrong that we have to point that out, and in some cases do something about it. Should we just say, oh them Nazi's are different to us, we should respect their value system though and not say anything? The same goes for all immoral value systems that are currently in place, there are some things that we cannot tolerate. For example certain countries assert that homosexuality is wrong and punish it by stoning to death, I refuse to just keep quiet and put it down to a difference in values. 

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