Is Dayz still the Anti-game?

[jukaga 271]

I don't see why so many people are stoked for more crafting. If anything, our toons finding the time and resources to craft a useable bow is about as unrealistic as it gets. It takes weeks to hand craft a recurve bow, and access to materials that would be hard to find even if there weren't infected running around. It's not just a matter of bending a good stick and running a cord between it.

 

Crafting is just so gamey, and beyond quick improvisations with duct tape, I don't think it has any place in the game, or anti-game as it is. I shudder at the thought of Epoch style base building making it's way into DayZ. Our toons should never be that comfortable.

[Deathlove 2286]

I don't see why so many people are stoked for more crafting. If anything, our toons finding the time and resources to craft a useable bow is about as unrealistic as it gets. It takes weeks to hand craft a recurve bow, and access to materials that would be hard to find even if there weren't infected running around. It's not just a matter of bending a good stick and running a cord between it.

 

Crafting is just so gamey, and beyond quick improvisations with duct tape, I don't think it has any place in the game, or anti-game as it is. I shudder at the thought of Epoch style base building making it's way into DayZ. Our toons should never be that comfortable.

Thats very true most traditional Native American bows take years of practices to master and make and even than they still take time considering the traditional methods used to make them out of wood. Crafting a bow is just as much an art form as it is to make.

[rickyspanish 158]

Hey don't bite it till its out and you get to experience it. Even though they might add in some kind of transaction deal with things it still might be a super unforgiving game. If they stick with cosmetic items im all for it.

Lol I don't have anything against it honestly, ill certainly give it a try looking forward to the stream tonight actually. Its just I can see SOE catering to the masses and being a little more casual which im fine with and could be fun maybe like warz but good is what im thinking (personal opinion dont know for sure, they could surprise me). But I want my dayz to be hardcore balls to the wall.

Edited April 17, 2014 by Ricky Spanish

[Deathlove 2286]

Lol I don't have anything against it honestly, ill certainly give it a try looking forward to the stream tonight actually. Its just I can see SOE catering to the masses and being a little more casual which im fine with and could be fun (personal opinion dont know for sure). But I want my dayz to be hardcore balls to the wall.

If you want that play the 2017 mod. Its about as hard core as you can get. No food spawns and you MUST conserve ammo and hunt in the wild. If they modeled some of the survival elements on that there would be no cans of food to save you. PPL would probably get upset but i mean its HARD CORE zombie survival. Towns are big risk with rewarding loot but very little. And if you bleed getting caught by zombies you can die since bandages are so rare.

Edited April 17, 2014 by Deathlove

[Karmaterror 982]

fucking anti game , who wants an anti game. it needs more content and crafting and weapons vehicles etc.

if you want anti game go jerk off with sand paper.

 

Christ you would all be happy with 60 players and one tin of beans between you.

 

See im not on about content, but the feel of the game and how it treats the player. A lot of decisions seem to be more focused on pleasing people, than making the game harsh, unforgiving and not user friendly. That's what we all fell in love with playing the mod, then these servers came along that screwed all that up....yes im looking at epoch and overwatch. Now SA seems to be following in there footsteps....making the thing more user friendly and offering mill loot around every corner. Anti-game (to me) dosent mean lack of content.....it means it doesn't try to be fun....it tries to be brutally difficult offering no help at all (like objectives, waypoints, health bars......healing status's.....easy generic mouse input....ect ect) :)

[Electi 149]

Ok so from my time on the forums before the SA came out I was of the opinion most players wanted an all together more hardcore experience. But a lot of the additions they are making seem to ditract from that. Here is a list of some of the things that I feel are anti-anti-game....if that makes sense lol...

 

1, The abundance of military buildings.

2, The healthy ststus

3, 1:1 mouse input

 

The amount of mill buildings has more than tripled since the mod, that makes me feel like they are taking a leaf from overwatch's book and trying to make guns readily avalible. The healthy status just robs a huge element from the survival side of things. Anyone remember being badly wounded in the mod.....having no meat left or any food. Then your only option was to hunt or push into a zombie infested town.....even though you had blurry vision and washed out colour. Now with SA its just a case of bypassing that town and waiting to heal over time. Some tweaks like making it take much longer to heal and much harder to obtain could help I think. The 1:1 mouse input to me is just blatent dumming down of the engine to pander to the masses. OK so I get most people want what they are used to....a stupidly fast, gamey style control that while user friendly does nothing to emulate the restrictions a human being has as regards movement.

 

All that being said there are things that keep me hopefull...

 

1, Wind effecting ballistics. This is to me a real anti-game feature. Makes it harder to shoot and maybe even require some research to become accurate.

 

2, Weather effecting your toon. Again brilliant, really adds depth to the survival features.

 

3, Infections. This I feel is a true anti-game feature. Allowing us to die without fault on our part really will drive home what dayz should (to me) be...a brutal unforgiving world where even if you do everything right you can still fail.

 

So what do you think....is dayz still the anti-game? or is it moving towards a more user friendly experience?

Pffff dreams baby, only in your dreams, as i find out you only have 2 adequate options

1)Enjoy what you have

2)Don't play few years(or don't play for eternity)

[doctorbadsign 645]

What does anti-game even mean?

[Karmaterror 982]

If you want that play the 2017 mod. Its about as hard core as you can get. No food spawns and you MUST conserve ammo and hunt in the wild. If they modeled some of the survival elements on that there would be no cans of food to save you. PPL would probably get upset but i mean its HARD CORE zombie survival. Towns are big risk with rewarding loot but very little. And if you bleed getting caught by zombies you can die since bandages are so rare.

 

Never tried that variation, but it sounds really good. I could see that really pissing some people off it it happened, and that's exactly why they should do it lol. Remember those mod threads "man this game sucks I just keep getting killed by zombies" or "shit game cant even find a gun"....those were the best threads, they showed why dayz was such a hit. It was gruelling, hard to the point of infuriating at times....and I loved every second of it :)

[Valadain 270]

fucking anti game , who wants an anti game. it needs more content and crafting and weapons vehicles etc.

if you want anti game go jerk off with sand paper.

 

Christ you would all be happy with 60 players and one tin of beans between you.

 

What you describe isn't anti-game at all. If 90%+ of the population where to be killed over a very brief (couple of months) period, there would be plenty of food and guns everywhere. The limitation of the spawns, in my eyes, is just to handle the part of the game that extends beyond what can be realistically portrayed (a finite and diminishing supply and the need for the game to be a fairly static experience for people playing now or people playing a year from now).

 

So the one-can-of-beans scenario (and yes, I get this impression too, that some people really want that level of... fun?) would be a game, not an anti-game mechanic.

[rickyspanish 158]

If you want that play the 2017 mod. Its about as hard core as you can get. No food spawns and you MUST conserve ammo and hunt in the wild. If they modeled some of the survival elements on that there would be no cans of food to save you. PPL would probably get upset but i mean its HARD CORE zombie survival. Towns are big risk with rewarding loot but very little. And if you bleed getting caught by zombies you can die since bandages are so rare.

I tried 2017 awhile back, I really liked the idea and it was one of my favourites of the mods and I loved how the vehicles looked and the zombies. I remember joining a group of randoms sticking together most of the day. We all had hatchets and one guy was lucky enough to find an enfield but food was the main issue, we stuck together all starving when we finally found a tin, we hadn't even thought about the fact that we wouldn't find enough for everyone... Chaos ensued. Was a blood bath. Good times.

[p4triot 207]

Ok so from my time on the forums before the SA came out I was of the opinion most players wanted an all together more hardcore experience. But a lot of the additions they are making seem to ditract from that. Here is a list of some of the things that I feel are anti-anti-game....if that makes sense lol...

 

1, The abundance of military buildings.

2, The healthy ststus

3, 1:1 mouse input

 

The amount of mill buildings has more than tripled since the mod, that makes me feel like they are taking a leaf from overwatch's book and trying to make guns readily avalible. The healthy status just robs a huge element from the survival side of things. Anyone remember being badly wounded in the mod.....having no meat left or any food. Then your only option was to hunt or push into a zombie infested town.....even though you had blurry vision and washed out colour. Now with SA its just a case of bypassing that town and waiting to heal over time. Some tweaks like making it take much longer to heal and much harder to obtain could help I think. The 1:1 mouse input to me is just blatent dumming down of the engine to pander to the masses. OK so I get most people want what they are used to....a stupidly fast, gamey style control that while user friendly does nothing to emulate the restrictions a human being has as regards movement.

 

All that being said there are things that keep me hopefull...

 

1, Wind effecting ballistics. This is to me a real anti-game feature. Makes it harder to shoot and maybe even require some research to become accurate.

 

2, Weather effecting your toon. Again brilliant, really adds depth to the survival features.

 

3, Infections. This I feel is a true anti-game feature. Allowing us to die without fault on our part really will drive home what dayz should (to me) be...a brutal unforgiving world where even if you do everything right you can still fail.

 

So what do you think....is dayz still the anti-game? or is it moving towards a more user friendly experience?

 

The 1:1 ratio mouse is perfect, devs say weapon wont move as fast as your head tho. But as it was now it was awful movement (for me, at least). I couldn't control my char properly.

 

About the healthy thing, totally agree. I was thinking the same, where's the survival when all the time you are most going healthy-healthy-healthy --> you're dead. Theres no survival, all is going fine until you suddenly die. Boring. This game needs 2 things, to be a little less lethal, and a llitle more complicated to be healthy. Having a healthy status should be a privilege, most of the time we should be enduring physical conditions not lethal but causing a lot of troubles like fatigue, dizziness. Some of them would be fine if they were permanent, like an infection from a zombie bite at your face that not treated in time caused you to lose hearing from one ear. Or a chopped hand, or blind from one eye, or a smashed knee leaving you limping for the rest of your character's life. Falling from 2m high shouldn't break you a leg, but leave you limping from an ankle sprain for around 20 minuts, more if not treated. And a lot more stuff we could think of.

 

This would be survival. Right now you are doing just fine until something kills you.

 

[rickyspanish 158]

The 1:1 ratio mouse is perfect, devs say weapon wont move as fast as your head tho. But as it was now it was awful movement (for me, at least). I couldn't control my char properly.

About the healthy thing, totally agree. I was thinking the same, where's the survival when all the time you are most going healthy-healthy-healthy --> you're dead. Theres no survival, all is going fine until you suddenly die. Boring. This game needs 2 things, to be a little less lethal, and a llitle more complicated to be healthy. Having a healthy status should be a privilege, most of the time we should be enduring physical conditions not lethal but causing a lot of troubles like fatigue, dizziness. Some of them would be fine if they were permanent, like an infection from a zombie bite at your face that not treated in time caused you to lose hearing from one ear. Or a chopped hand, or blind from one eye, or a smashed knee leaving you limping for the rest of your character's life. Falling from 2m high shouldn't break you a leg, but leave you limping from an ankle sprain for around 20 minuts, more if not treated. And a lot more stuff we could think of.

This would be survival. Right now you are doing just fine until something kills you.

Love the permanent injury idea the only problem is the amount of people who will just head to the coast and commit suicide and then go to there bodies to collect there gear. Personally id see it as a challenge but certain people we see it as an inconvenience.

[jayleann 143]

It takes weeks to hand craft a recurve bow

 

The crafted bow is a simple long bow and not a recurve bow, I think...

[Caboose187 (DayZ) 3036]

Love the permanent injury idea the only problem is the amount of people who will just head to the coast and commit suicide and then go to there bodies to collect there gear. Personally id see it as a challenge but certain people we see it as an inconvenience.

Suicide should ruin all your items so you can't do this.  Tough shit for those who want to. 

[Valadain 270]

Suicide should ruin all your items so you can't do this.  Tough shit for those who want to. 

 

That's very fake and gameish and pointless too. Persistent storage would just let you chuck your stuff somewhere off of yourself, then you kill yourself not harming your gear.

[Caboose187 (DayZ) 3036]

That's very fake and gameish and pointless too. Persistent storage would just let you chuck your stuff somewhere off of yourself, then you kill yourself not harming your gear.

Nope.  Dying should not allow to go to your special secret spot to get stashed gear.  Your "persistent" storage should only persist on the server as long as you are alive.  You should not get rewarded for not liking where you spawned or when you get killed. 

[TheScruffyBandit 382]

Nope.  Dying should not allow to go to your special secret spot to get stashed gear.  Your "persistent" storage should only persist on the server as long as you are alive.  You should not get rewarded for not liking where you spawned or when you get killed. 

Are we sure about that? That has been my major concern about storage since they first mentioned it.. the idea that the storage will become an insurance against death for the deathmatch brigade.

 

If the storage stops existing once your character dies, I'm much happier with the idea.

[Valadain 270]

I don't see why so many people are stoked for more crafting. If anything, our toons finding the time and resources to craft a useable bow is about as unrealistic as it gets. It takes weeks to hand craft a recurve bow, and access to materials that would be hard to find even if there weren't infected running around. It's not just a matter of bending a good stick and running a cord between it.

 

Crafting is just so gamey, and beyond quick improvisations with duct tape, I don't think it has any place in the game, or anti-game as it is. I shudder at the thought of Epoch style base building making it's way into DayZ. Our toons should never be that comfortable.

 

Agreed on crafting. For base building, I wouldn't mind something a bit more based on scavenging than Epoch, but I do think people should be able to claim a place as their own (for however long they can hold it). I'd be fine if this were existing buildings that you can re-inforce and alter.

 

I do like the current lose all your stuff and respawn far away on death. I don't, however, subscribe to the "perma-death" concept, that you have to lose all interactions you've made in the world on previous lives.

[Tomo2000uk 33]

Yea I agree hopefully this will makes its way in and add more risk to dealing with zombies and looting. Would also make treating your wounds quite important and keeping healthy.

Sounds like N1Z1 will be perfect for all your vehicle and weapon collection needs, you'll probably even be able to build your barbie dream house there...

yup whilst you wait another year for loot and 2 years for a tent to put it in.

nothing wrong with a richer gaming experience. go rub your twigs together in the woods.

[Caboose187 (DayZ) 3036]

Are we sure about that? That has been my major concern about storage since they first mentioned it.. the idea that the storage will become an insurance against death for the deathmatch brigade.

 

If the storage stops existing once your character dies, I'm much happier with the idea.

Well there has been no actual explanation on how persistent storage is going to work.  I'm pretty sure the idea behind it is to allow it to persist on a server.  Not persist upon death.  As usual, we don't get a proper explanation of the ideas the devs want to implement. 

[p4triot 207]

Suicide should ruin all your items so you can't do this.  Tough shit for those who want to. 

 

Drop items on the floor. Done. Have it friends do it for you. Done. Let yourself kill from zombies (how is the game gonna know if it has been intentional or no?).

 

Only way I see is having some type of penalization from dying. Like 10 min delay before you can play again (a bit intrusive I think). Also, people should value their character's life more than their gear or anything else. This is done by giving long time characters some value new ones doesnt have.

Also, as I said, healthy should be a privilege, not the norm. So why suicide to get a new char if Im gonna be injured some way or another in no time? In fact, new char should spawn already with some physical condition (non lethal and not permanent), more like dizzines, extremely tired, low in blood, muscular pain with additional trouble: limping, poor vision... Bonus: this would also discourage deatmatch I think, imagine if everytime you respawn you have to spend time healing your character before heading back to battle.

 

Give players reasons to stick with their actual char no matter what.

[hannibaldaplaya 1095]

Nope.  Dying should not allow to go to your special secret spot to get stashed gear.  Your "persistent" storage should only persist on the server as long as you are alive.  You should not get rewarded for not liking where you spawned or when you get killed. 

 

Hm.

 

Here comes an issue-

 

If my persistent storage despawns when I die, no one else can find it. How about making it so you can't open your own persistent storage, or something like that, so others can still stumble upon it and loot your stash?

 

Maybe make it just teleport to some random location on the map.

 

I am a person that is for being able to find dead bodies, stashes, and such all over the map, as you would in real life, but we still need to stop persistent storage from being a safety net incase you die.

[Caboose187 (DayZ) 3036]

Hm.

 

Here comes an issue-

 

If my persistent storage despawns when I die, no one else can find it. How about making it so you can't open your own persistent storage, or something like that, so others can still stumble upon it and loot your stash?

 

Maybe make it just teleport to some random location on the map.

 

I am a person that is for being able to find dead bodies, stashes, and such all over the map, as you would in real life, but we still need to stop persistent storage from being a safety net incase you die.

It becomes locked to your character and you can't open it.  Simple.  Dying should not allow you to keep your items.  Sadly people will work around this by having friends loot their dead corpse but this is where ruined items come in.   ;)

[hannibaldaplaya 1095]

It becomes locked to your character and you can't open it.  Simple.  Dying should not allow you to keep your items.  Sadly people will work around this by having friends loot their dead corpse but this is where ruined items come in.   ;)

Still, if I place a stash in the world, and die, I should not know about it, but it should persist so players can find it and reap the booty that will most definitely be there.

 

I say lock the character out of the stash and teleport it to a random area 200m - 300m away.

[Caboose187 (DayZ) 3036]

Still, if I place a stash in the world, and die, I should not know about it, but it should persist so players can find it and reap the booty that will most definitely be there.

 

I say lock the character out of the stash and teleport it to a random area 200m - 300m away.

That could work too but just locking the container so the original player can't open it works as well but I see that you are hoping you'll be able to find it again..... Sneaky, sneaky  ;)