Can Nothing be done about MetaGaming in Dayz?

[blowurselfup 54]

1. No, this is what we're talking about in this thread, quit being a douche. Yes, people will use 3rd party VOIP no matter what, the idea is to transmit over local chat anything that goes through the mic. Forcing always on. The dev in this thread said something about bandwidth, but it seemed like a fairly flimsy excuse.

 

2. No, this is what we're talking about in this thread, quit being a douche. You're wrong, people will still exploit gamma if it is adjustable in game. Might as well figure out a solution as early in the alpha as possible. Probably an options menu revamp with certain things restricted to title screen, or only taking effect after a fresh spawn.

 

3. No, this is what we're talking about in this thread, quit being a douche. See #2, but replace gamma with FoV

Not being a douche..just being real

 

Inadvertently you made all three of my points more valid. Thanks

 

Next..you are going to tell me that I have to adjust the settings on my monitor and how far it should be from my face

[hefeweizen 254]

Don't get me wrong, I'd like it if everyone played DayZ without the meta-stuff like third person and voip, where people roleplayed and valued the life of the character rather than just the equipment that character had.

I have heard one idea for making people value the life of their character that would actually make a difference. Beard/Hair growth for time survived. I know if I had a majestic flowing hobo mane that took 48 hours of in game time to max out, I would be a lot more careful. Even if people AFK'd to get all mountain man'd up, they'd still value that life all the more.

 

Also, I dunno, maybe you could change tires, fix engines, bandage faster, find berries quicker, treat wounds more effectively or melee harder the more you did 'em. Anything that doesn't require direct input from the player (e.g. aiming, stealth, finding equipment, communication) outside of selecting it as an action could become slightly faster with repeated use. That in turn, could bring a rise of specializations, medics, mechanics, woodsmen, zombie killing berzerker viking axemen. That sorta thing.

[hefeweizen 254]

Not being a douche..just being real

From my experience, "being real" is just something douche bags say when they want to try to justify whatever sh**ty and tactless thing they just did/said.

It's like saying "No offence but..." its cute that you think qualifying the sh**ty things you say will change how people perceive them, but that doesn't get you off the hook for being an assh***.

[Scotch Bingeington 18]

There is nothing they can do about Voice comms, and I think the gamma/brightness will be a giant pain in the ass seeing as how it's how people perceive the virtual world around their character as a whole, and I'm not sure the FOV option is necessary, but I could do without it.

[Valadain 270]

I don't see any value to the VOIP always on argument. It wouldn't work for the community as a whole (not all of us get to game alone, in a sound controlled environment). So that would mean a "server option", which as we've seen with hard-core, means high-volume complaining because not enough people want to play that way.

 

There is really nothing you can do about meta-gaming in general. 

[joe_mcentire 2073]

Either way, the best thing you can do is to set incentives. How can you achieve that people want to use direct chat and also don't want to use 3rd party comms

[qww 287]

when looking down sights fov should be the same for everyone, only non scoped fov should be adjustable

 

either that, or separate sliders for these two view modes, 

 

thats what i think is the solution for fov.

Edited April 15, 2014 by qww

[Valadain 270]

Either way, the best thing you can do is to set incentives. How can you achieve that people want to use direct chat and also don't want to use 3rd party comms

 

I agree, but people would hate what that entails. You would basically need to make the radios work just as well as any external voip, including having the ability to have a private channel that spans the whole map. It would also mean spawning with a radio. If it is high quality, easy to use, and offers pretty well the benefits of a third party voip, people would be more inclined to use it, even with the fact that you talk in direct as well.

 

If you have to hunt for a radio, share channels, and have a limited range... Yeah, nobody is going to bother except for fun.

[joe_mcentire 2073]

just had a glorious idea. ;)

Encrypt Mic-in while dayz is maximized, with only the game being able to decrypt withits ingame chat ...

Or how about

Register every mic input and at least play a generic "muffled sound" when not direct chat is used.

[joe_mcentire 2073]

If you have to hunt for a radio, share channels, and have a limited range... Yeah, nobody is going to bother except for fun.

Abundance of radios and cell phones would be a possibility. Well at least a radio could be used as transmitter pretty easily...

So if we'd assume modern cell phones have also radio functionality and it would be easy to "hack"them..many ifs and woulds...

Edited April 15, 2014 by joe_mcentire

[sabaka (DayZ) 70]

1- I (and everyone I play with) uses skype on our phones sitting in front of our keyboards in order to have separate and separately mutable mics (and uninterrupted communications regardless of latency spikes etc.) and so all speculation about preventing background voip programs from running is utter nonsense.

 

2- I posted this elsewhere but I'm reposting it here:

Teamspeak (or skype or whatever) is clearly cheating. As stated it allows you to communicate without being in close proximity to someone. Additionally texting or messaging your friends to ask them if they want to play with you is cheating. Running places is a huge focus of this game. If you want to play with your real life friends you need to run to their house (in real life), let them know you're going to get on when you get back, then run home. Otherwise you alert them that you're going to be online, and possibly tell them where your character is in game and on what server, without letting their roommates or spouses or other people in their house hear you and what you're doing. This gives you a tactical advantage. 

[Valadain 270]

just had a glorious idea. ;)

Encrypt Mic-in while dayz is maximized, with only the game being able to decrypt withits ingame chat ...

Or how about

Register every mic input and at least play a generic "muffled sound" when not direct chat is used.

 

People would just stop using in-game chat entirely, set it to another line and forget it. Or stop playing the game entirely.

[Inception. 9443]

Be nice.

[kypkalorian 2]

I guess if they are giving all players X-ray vision it's fine. Hell, perhaps it's more like "bending" light when you are completely concealed yet can see something you really shouldn't be able to.

 

DAYZ the last light bender!

[xX_fr0st-w0lf_Xx (DayZ) 343]

Please correct if I'm wrong, people here want to remove the possibility of playing dayz with 3rd party mics

[IamDinner 28]

Please correct if I'm wrong, people here want to remove the possibility of playing dayz with 3rd party mics

 

Yes that is what a portion of players seem to want. I actually have no idea how large the no alternate voip party is in this community. I have seen threads about it though since I have been lurking around here.

 

I think personally it would be nice to at least have the option on private server once that all comes down and the game is in retail. It could be helpful for those looking to play out scenario based RP if they want. If one really wants a survival simulation that is something more than just gaming then I would say no outside voip is far more realistic in that case. I am not really for or against in the long run though I am use to it from most games I play(ed).

[P0rkchop 31]

If I couldn't talk to my friends on Steam while playing... I probably wouldn't play. 

[gibonez 3633]

If I couldn't talk to my friends on Steam while playing... I probably wouldn't play. 

You would.

 

You would just end up sending alot of instant messages until you could meet in game,.

[doctorrayray 76]

In my own experience, my friends and I use TS just to talk about nonsense. Only like 1% is coordinating. So, I think finding a way to block 3rd party chat would be a waste of time. 

[real meatshield 424]

This thread has turned into the anti-TS thread, in the same vein as the 4th wall mod thread is anti-3PP.

 

Two things that are never going to change- 3PP servers, and 3rd party VOIP- yet the anti's just cant leave it alone.

[ibherb 38]

I have heard one idea for making people value the life of their character that would actually make a difference. Beard/Hair growth for time survived. I know if I had a majestic flowing hobo mane that took 48 hours of in game time to max out, I would be a lot more careful. Even if people AFK'd to get all mountain man'd up, they'd still value that life all the more.

 

Also, I dunno, maybe you could change tires, fix engines, bandage faster, find berries quicker, treat wounds more effectively or melee harder the more you did 'em. Anything that doesn't require direct input from the player (e.g. aiming, stealth, finding equipment, communication) outside of selecting it as an action could become slightly faster with repeated use. That in turn, could bring a rise of specializations, medics, mechanics, woodsmen, zombie killing berzerker viking axemen. That sorta thing.

We would certainly need a way to cut the beards and hair  :)

 

 I actually start each new character with nothing, drop the trousers, shirt, and shoes on spawn (wish there was the option to spawn without items).

 I play a survivalist, I go to berry bushes for food if cans unavailable. Sometimes its touch and go at first, but increasing a skill while doing it would be nice. I try to sneak to some wells , but get chased off by Zeds sometimes, which I wont engage until I've found bandages or made rags, and have an axe. I avoid contact with Zeds and people if I can. I like to use the B95, as main for hunting (looking forward to when it is put in) and an fnx for sidearm if possible (mostly because it has suppressor, and hope it will work someday). I also avoid getting soaked if possible, I'll spend time in a building or under a tress and travel only when rain stops, or if I'm in danger of dieing from intruder, starvation , or thirst.

 

Anyway, just like the idea of the longer my character lives, the better he'd be at doing some things like better rate of finding berries from doing it a lot.

The actual fighting skills should remain with the player and his mouse/keyboard though.

[AzrailCross 48]

This thread has turned into the anti-TS thread, in the same vein as the 4th wall mod thread is anti-3PP.

 

Two things that are never going to change- 3PP servers, and 3rd party VOIP- yet the anti's just cant leave it alone.

 

While I agree on the VOIP since there really isn't any end result, most they COULD do is attempt to disable playing while they are in the background doesn't stop it from happening on the person's next computer, smart phone, blah blah.. I'd thumb them up for the effort, but it is in the end pointless; it'd send a message they don't want it happening but it'd still happen despite any  amount of efforts put in and isn't the worst thing in the world. I more back the idea (in regards of effectiveness) of having cellphones and radios more readily in game and have them being a more appealing option via being immersive and easily found/used to get in contact with strangers, friends, and even foes for hostage situations in a quick streamlined way that third party providers really can't offer.. but who knows!

 

On the topic of 3PP and the supposed 'anti's' -- there is no reason to take away 3PP .. but it has it's obvious advantage that promotes using it over 1PP and all such advantages need to be fixed so both are on equal playing fields; allowing you to play as what you prefer to rather than playing in one or the other because of quirky ingame mechanics. 4th Wall happens to take away that advantage without providing any faults if it's simply done correctly which we can expect it can and will be since a single *modder* pulled it off; it's alpha, it's time to get it in early and tested throughly, there is no ground to stand on against it. None. I use both, I see the advantage, I use it while it exists, and I end up avoiding 1PP even when I'd prefer to be using it, because of the obvious tactical perk of not actually sticking my neck out to see around the corner or from the rooftop.

 

The only reason to not support evening the playing field is loving the advantage of viewing areas without risking poking your head out to actually see what's around, it's plain and simple.

Edited April 16, 2014 by AzrailCross

[real meatshield 424]

On the topic of 3PP and the supposed 'anti's' -- there is no reason to take away 3PP .. but it has it's obvious advantage that promotes using it over 1PP and all such advantages need to be fixed so both are on equal playing fields; allowing you to play as what you prefer to rather than playing in one or the other because of quirky ingame mechanics. 4th Wall happens to take away that advantage without providing any faults if it's simply done correctly which we can expect it can and will be since a single *modder* pulled it off; it's alpha, it's time to get it in early and tested throughly, there is no ground to stand on against it.

No, just no. The ONLY advantage is if someone playing in 1PP mode decides to join a 3PP server- and that is a choice made by the player themselves. There is NOTHING inherent in the game that puts that player at a disadvantage- it is his choice, and his choice alone, to join the 3PP server knowing full well the majority of players on that server are playing from a perspective that disadvantages him. There is no advantage granted to someone playing in 3PP over ANYONE else playing 3PP- it is a completely level playing field.

 

4th wall aims to cripple 3PP players with the goal of making it "fair" to 1PP players on the same server. There is no fairness at all in restricting the gameplay of someone playing in 3rd person, on a 3rd person server, by removing the inherent ability to see everything in third person. 1PP players simply have no business playing on 3PP servers if they are unwilling to accept the difficulty they are going to encounter when coming up against a player using 3rd person. The mod balances nothing and breaks everything about 3PP- peeking over walls and around corners and seeing nothing is a broken 3rd person perspective, period.

[AzrailCross 48]

No, just no. The ONLY advantage is if someone playing in 1PP mode decides to join a 3PP server- and that is a choice made by the player themselves. There is NOTHING inherent in the game that puts that player at a disadvantage- it is his choice, and his choice alone, to join the 3PP server knowing full well the majority of players on that server are playing from a perspective that disadvantages him. There is no advantage granted to someone playing in 3PP over ANYONE else playing 3PP- it is a completely level playing field.

 

4th wall aims to cripple 3PP players with the goal of making it "fair" to 1PP players on the same server. There is no fairness at all in restricting the gameplay of someone playing in 3rd person, on a 3rd person server, by removing the inherent ability to see everything in third person. 1PP players simply have no business playing on 3PP servers if they are unwilling to accept the difficulty they are going to encounter when coming up against a player using 3rd person. The mod balances nothing and breaks everything about 3PP- peeking over walls and around corners and seeing nothing is a broken 3rd person perspective, period.

 

This is all under the serious delusion there IS a 3PP server. Hardcore is NOT 'just' a 1PP server, it's ment to in the future be HARDCORE; harder to survive, not because of 1PP; but for many other reasons that have been mentioned by dev's over many threads and even the dev blogs and videos they haven't implemented yet but intend to by release. Where's your ground to stand on when that's in, you like 1PP so now you can either choose 3PP advantaged 'normal' servers or take all the harder additions of Hardcore ontop of 1PP? 

 

Normal is NOT "3pp" servers, it's NORMAL. Allowing both, and both are intended to be on equal playing grounds. Of which your whole idea falls apart anyway, when you factor in the 4th wall 'concept' in DayZ Standalone does NOT cripple 3PP, it puts it on equality with 1PP: and does not create a situation where one person in 3PP has an advantage over the next person in 3PP or the other person in 1PP. 

 

By the way, the MOD, is created by ONE person, the dev team at Bohemia can create a far more professional, functional, and tested means of doing this, and as I said it should gray/blackout the areas you can't see so it's not questionable whats in your line of sight: that much is obvious. It's Alpha, they sure as hell can try at this stage, there is again - NO - ground to stand on.

Edited April 16, 2014 by AzrailCross

[Daemonkid 493]

Why does 3PP have to always be a crutch, in the eyes of the hardcore elitists? Maybe we, the scrub noobs playing 3PP, happen to like to see our environment from a different perspective? Maybe we don't want to play a pseudo-RPG from a 1PP perspective? Maybe we just happen to like the way we play in 3rd person, on 3rd person servers, that have absolutely NO EFFECT WHATSOEVER on how those who wish to play in first person servers, enjoy their own experience?

Why is it that the incessant bitching and moaning about 3PP by 1PP players, has no counterpart from 3PP players over 1PP servers?

 

I have been playing first person shooters since DOOM and RTCW. Probably 90% of my gaming life has been in FPSes. I do not consider this game to be an FPS despite the fact it offers 1PP. Do I care that there are people who want to play it in 1PP? Hell no. Doesn't affect my gameplay one bit, which is why I fail to grasp how those of us who choose to play 3PP seem to generate such animosity from the 1PP crowd.

 

3PP needs absolutely no adjustment at all- the only adjustment needed is that of the attitudes of 1PP players who think they are above the rest of us. Trust me kids, your shit still stinks like shit. You ain't any better, you just choose to play a different way. Get over yourselves.

'Cept I play both modes and 3PP DOES NEED FIXING. You 3PP purist's are just bad. 3PP is nice and all but you can't honestly tell me it's not fucking broken as all hell. You honestly can't. A good way to fix 3PP mode is to make it over the shoulder. Not the invisible omni-potent wall hack that it is now. Seeing over 7 foot high wall because of the camera? "hurrr duurrrr clever use of game mechanics! You'll scream and shout. But the 3PP view is broken, broken broken.