Graphic deaths

[todd10k 87]

This is a serious topic for serious debate.

 

tl;dr player kills should effect the player on a psychological level, to the point where the killing is so reprehensible that it becomes unbearable. Below is one way this could be accomplished. 

 

I don't believe this to be the holy grail that will stop people KoSing on sight, but i believe that this, combined with other "disincentives" would add another level to it.

 

KoS exists in this game for many, many different factors. I believe one of them is how "clean" killing is in this game. When you shoot someone, a small stream of blood comes out and the player drops to the ground, either unconscious or dead. There is no screaming, no shouting, no screams of agony, no desperate pleas for mercy, no instinct to protect the head with wild flailing, no death rattle, no gore, no pool of blood, no dead silence (Only the fucking wind constantly blowing. Another suggestion: sort out the weather.). nothing that makes the death you have just inflicted last beyond when you hide the body after dropping the loot. Half the reason why KoS is so prevalent is because when you shoot someone, you're shooting pixels on the screen, moving around. We need to make Murder more human, and less humane. ( Yes i'm grinning too at that statement, but hear me out )

 

Killing is something that is gruesome, messy, it sticks with you. You've just ended another human beings life, you see their faces in the night, you re-live it over and over, it's something that changes you, you're a different person than the one that entered the fray.

We need to create psychological effects in the mind of the player, not the character. The character is a tool designed to convey the presence of the player into the gameworld. Suggestions for things like insanity for players that kill constantly are steps in the right direction, but i believe that DayZs greatest strength lies in it's ability to invoke the players flight or fight response. Whenever i get shot at and missed, i feel ALIVE. My heart is pumping, my muscles tense, my breathing heavy. I'm ready for you, sniper on the hill. And i'm coming for you. THAT is the quintessential DayZ experience. That is the human experience. When the shooting is over, the body of your opponent limps, face down in the dirt, a lifeless, non human shell full of goodies. It's nothing more than any chest or drop in WoW. But what if that loot drop was talking to you, begging you not to shoot it anymore? What if characters involuntarily rolled around in agony on the ground as their bodies are wracked with pain from the multiple lacerations to their flesh. What if, when you're looting them, they're staring into your eyes pleading with you not to pull the trigger. What if when you're looting them, you get blood on your hands. It won't wash off. It's all over you, you had to kneel down in the pool of it to get that new shiny m4a1. What about the pieces of gore and blood now mixed in with that sack of potatoes you looted from the last player you shot?

 

Player deaths should produce gore over surfaces behind the player when shot. Downed players should not immediately go unconscious. Downed players should be able to move around, continue speaking, to beg for their life. If the player has been in a firefight for over X amount of seconds ( determined by balance testing ), their character should be having an adrenaline rush. A character who is shot while experiencing this adrenaline rush would not immediately go unconscious when shot. Once the effects of the adrenaline wear off, the player would then go unconscious. Players would be able to bandage to prevent further blood loss, unless broken arms prevent it ( Unless balance testing proves this to be detrimental to play. The idea here is to improve the experience of death for the player, on both sides of the business end of your mosin). Players should be able to remain conscious, lying on their back while heavily injured, unless they have a critical injury like a headshot or a shot directly to the heart, etc. This gives the player the time they might need to beg for their life. Players who survive such encounters would feel most fortunate indeed. Player characters should scream when mortally wounded, cries to god for help, blood curdling agonising screams, grown men crying for their mothers, death rattles, rolling around spraying blood all over the place, entrails and organs protruding from open wounds. 

 

Think horror movie type stuff. The more unsettling the better. Player kills should affect the player administering the killing on a psychological level. Enough to the point that the player will hesitate to shoot based solely on the fact that they do not wish to witness such barbarism up close and personal, never mind the fact that they are the ones administering such evil upon another player. 

 

I hope you guys can keep an open mind about this idea. Obviously i haven't thought of everything and the idea has a long way to go before it could become something usable in game. I know to some this may seem a step too far and might make the game seem too jarring, even sadistic. That is not my intention. As it stands, i think nothing of dispatching another player because they're just not human to me.

 

Thank you for reading.

Edited April 3, 2014 by DNolan

[Inception. 9443]

Just as long as it doesn't get banned in Australia as a result of gruesome deaths.

[BeefBacon 1185]

I skimmed over this, but I like the gist of it. When people get shot I don't imagine they immediately go limp and die - presumably they're alive for quite some time in considerable pain. It'd be cool to have this simulated as it really fits into the game. Nothing ridiculously disgusting, just something that isn't as comical as a literal fountain of blood.

 

Again, I didn't really read the whole thing (tl;dr at the top of the post, what a rebel) but I like that you didn't try to shimmy in some kind of sanity meter.

 

"If you shoot too many people then your player gets all sad and has to find antidepressants, otherwise blah blah blah" was the post I was expecting.

 

Anyway, beans and so on.

[Dchil 829]

Just as long as it doesn't get banned in Australia as a result of gruesome deaths.

Does it matter for us? we already have it. Though it does limit those waiting for beta and beyond.

 

Though i would like to see some gore in the game, i don't think the engine is set up that way.

[nl 986]

Some sick minds would probably kill JUST to see the gore...

I understand what you are getting at and agree in many ways that death atm is often too sudden.

A little more drama would add to the game for both killed and killer.

I think probably the psychological effect you are seeking will soon wear off as it is human nature that the mind dulls after seeing enough traumatic things, let alone in virtual reality.

[todd10k 87]

"If you shoot too many people then your player gets all sad and has to find antidepressants, otherwise blah blah blah"

 

You do have to go find anti depressants, but it's you yourself getting up away from your computer to go to the cabinet for the 6th valium of the day. ;)

 

 

Anyway, beans and so on.

 

Cheers :)

 

 

Some sick minds would probably kill JUST to see the gore...

I understand what you are getting at and agree in many ways that death atm is often too sudden.

A little more drama would add to the game for both killed and killer.

I think probably the psychological effect you are seeking will soon wear off as it is human nature that the mind dulls after seeing enough traumatic things, let alone in virtual reality.

 

Possibly. DayZ induced PTSD, anyone?

Edited April 3, 2014 by DNolan

[nl 986]

 

 

Possibly. DayZ induced PTSD, anyone?

 

 

 

Yes if killing too many players would for instance reduce aiming capability (effect wearing off over time) or the amount of food and drink your stomach can hold, or speed of regenerating health/blood it may be a mechanic to make players think twice about frivolous killing.

Edited April 3, 2014 by SAK

[Pvt_Larry (DayZ) 98]

This game can get so psychological sometimes, it warrants a real study.  I don't know if this is a real deterrent, because to some people it would always be "just a game" and there's some real gore hounds out there. Still an interesting concept and certainly a step in the right direction (so long as it doesn't get banned).

[applejaxc 2500]

Does it matter for us? we already have it. Though it does limit those waiting for beta and beyond.

 

Yes, it does. It would get revoked from .au without refund.

 

There's some cool blood gurgling sound affects/bursting capillaries/bone breaking in the Speed of Sound (and v2) mod for ArmA 2 and 3... it also makes the weapon sounds not suck.

 

But no, I don't think this is necessary. It's a video game. The people that find murdering fellow survivors in KoS reprehensible already don't do it. The people who don't care will continue to not care.

[wisper 61]

Fyi, people shot, drop like a sack of patatos and stay limp most of the time... once though this guy was shot by 5.56 and we had to find the wound to convince him that it was not a cramb.

[notaqua 7]

I love this.
 

Instead of making forced stats/rules where KOS players and bandits stats are changed the more they kill innocents, this actually leaves it up to the player behind the screen.

 

If you're the kind of person who just LAUGHS and absolutely enjoys seeing these pixel rendered gruesome deaths, and laughs when they beg for their lives, it won't affect you at all and you can keep KOSing as much as you want. While at the same time if you legitimately feel bad when the player can still speak through his mic and beg you to bandage him up, please just take all his ammo and his M4, just don't kill him, etc.... then maybe you'll change your ways and be a good guy.

 

 

 

 

Yes if killing too many players would for instance reduce aiming capability (effect wearing off over time) or the amount of food and drink your stomach can hold, or speed of regenerating health/blood it may be a mechanic to make players think twice about frivolous killing.

 

No, no no. This is the exact opposite of the OPs point.

 

This is exactly what would make me demand my money back if they implemented this.

[nl 986]

No, no no. This is the exact opposite of the OPs point.

 

This is exactly what would make me demand my money back if they implemented this.

Well I was thinking along the lines of what mechanics are already implemented in the game to achieve some sort of "psychological"  effect of killing players other than implementing just some gore and drama. In the end OP is trying to achieve a form of adverse effect on the player to prevent random killing without penalty?

Edited April 3, 2014 by SAK

[nettles 396]

i don't think the engine is set up that way.

 

Actually, the game wasn't set up for physics either, but they supposedly have it "functionally complete."  I really like this idea, because yeah, if you take a bullet, you're not going to quietly keel over unless it's a clean killshot.  Maybe if we have like a little quick-time where we can press different buttons to crawl, or apply pressure to a wound, or draw a pistol, or cry out for help or to warn others in a near-incapacitated state.

[notaqua 7]

Well I was thinking along the lines of what mechanics are already implemented in the game to achieve some sort of "psychological"  effect of killing players other than implementing just some gore and drama. In the end OP is trying to achieve a form of adverse effect on the player to prevent random killing without penalty?

Yes, without an in-game penalty.

 

If we're going for realism, the more you kill, the more hardened you'd become to killing, not the other way around. The soldiers who have killed the most people with their M4s and AKs, don't have bad aim because of their guilt. They have the best aim because of the practice, and no guilt becuase of the desensitizing effects of repeated murder.

 

An in-game penalty to KOS would destroy the best part of DayZ IMO.

[Dchil 829]

Yes, it does. It would get revoked from .au without refund.

 

There's some cool blood gurgling sound affects/bursting capillaries/bone breaking in the Speed of Sound (and v2) mod for ArmA 2 and 3... it also makes the weapon sounds not suck.

 

But no, I don't think this is necessary. It's a video game. The people that find murdering fellow survivors in KoS reprehensible already don't do it. The people who don't care will continue to not care.

I have to admit that i didn't know that that happens.

 

Actually, the game wasn't set up for physics either, but they supposedly have it "functionally complete."  I really like this idea, because yeah, if you take a bullet, you're not going to quietly keel over unless it's a clean killshot.  Maybe if we have like a little quick-time where we can press different buttons to crawl, or apply pressure to a wound, or draw a pistol, or cry out for help or to warn others in a near-incapacitated state.

They are breaking new ground for the engine. However Quicktime events shouldn't be one of them.

[nl 986]

Yes, without an in-game penalty.

 

If we're going for realism, the more you kill, the more hardened you'd become to killing, not the other way around. The soldiers who have killed the most people with their M4s and AKs, don't have bad aim because of their guilt. They have the best aim because of the practice, and no guilt becuase of the desensitizing effects of repeated murder.

 

An in-game penalty to KOS would destroy the best part of DayZ IMO.

That's a fair point and I stated as much really in my first reaction in this topic. I'm just brainstorming here.

[todd10k 87]

So how would one push this idea forward for inspection by the devs then? It seems most people seem to like the idea, so who needs to review this?

[Skyelur 57]

This is an awesome idea, I do believe they should be VULNERABLE on the ground still. But this is a great idea

[Jeer 16]

So how would one push this idea forward for inspection by the devs then? It seems most people seem to like the idea, so who needs to review this?

 

Post it here: http://reddit.com/r/dayz/comments/1zr4nz/new_standalone_suggestions_thread/ and when this post gets updatet (monthly i think) your suggestion will be added to the wiki and the devs will also see them.

Or you just post it again on reddit, and if its popular enough to come on the front page the devs will maybe see it.

[JKS-Alex 79]

"If you shoot too many people then your player gets all sad and has to find antidepressants

This is a really good idea but instead after too many kills you need to them after youar FIRST KILL, it's indisputable that killing a man is something that poeple can't do so easly without psicological consequence. Story tell us that in hard time like wars or in a sort of apocalypse poeple kill after kill can become immune to guilt of a murder but you need much time to live with your new moral code if youare becoming a killer, so imo a good system will be:

1st kill: 6 gameplay hours of guilt staus antidepressant can reduce of half

2nd and 3d kills: 3 hours of guilt status same for antidepressant

4th to 6th kills: 1 hours of guilt status same for antidepressant

After that any further kill has o more effects cause you are "finally" a true cold killer, this will force players to think twice before killing people just for fun (obviuosly all the hours of guilt effect are cumulative in case someone will go to hunt 6 bambies to remove fast the effect) and will force killers to take care of theyr life cause if they die they must pass again for the guilt penality

As last thing IMO a good penality can be an unsteady aim for the duration of the guilt status

Edit: oh and as someone said a vomit effect if you go over 6 hours of guilt status (red status)

Edited April 6, 2014 by JKS-Alex

[JiJi (DayZ) 223]

The psychological effect that lead someone to consider a bunch of pixels as someone else is empathy.
To induce empathy require communication : Human voice + dialog.

* Most players consider frag as rewarding. Big game hunting, no chat with prey.
- Nothing else thrilling to do (lack of content).
- PvP more challenging than PvE (zombie weak AI/hazardousness).
- Because of fear ("better to kill than been killed").

* No communication way available or encouraging.
- Software such TeamSpeak,Mumble keep users secluded among them.
- Walkie Talkie are useless for that purpose (need fundamental changes).

- Hand signals do not serve that purpose (e.i. "come here" , "go away" , would have been better choice).

Edited April 6, 2014 by JiJi

[todd10k 87]

Yes, this is why i stressed the point about not simply going unconscious when getting shot, as you will be disabled but still able to communicate.

[fing24 36]

I had the sort of experience you are trying to implement.  I got shot, but not killed.  I came out of unconsciousness to find some of my kit looted.  I could see the person who had shot me  so I moved around to let them know I was still alive, shot again. I'm still alive and come out of unconsciousness and I move around again. Last shot was the fatal one.  I here over my headset laughing and the comment "don't mess with us".  As much as a like your Idea you are still pixels on the screen and even with pixel gore people will still kill for fun no mater what.

 

As for the people that say there are should be no penalty for killing I think there should, but lets make it when you die that's it game over no respawn. That's real life.  Then lets see how much kos would go on then?  you take a gamble every time you shoot some one. You might be the one that ends up dead not your intended victim. But seriously it is a game and may be to make kos not as prevalent, have a penalty for a time for killing a fellow pixel avatar. It would make you think a little bit more before pulling the trigger so quickly.  You still can, you just get some effects for a period of time then that is gone and it's off to the next killing. It just might stop people going on a killing spree as you will have to let the effect go as you are at a slight disadvantage. But don't worry I don't think the devs will do that so let the kos remain as an integral part of the game OOOOHAHAHAHAH KILLL KILL KILL.

[JKS-Alex 79]

The psychological effect that lead someone to consider a bunch of pixels as someone else is empathy.

To induce empathy require communication : Human voice + dialog.

 

bullshit, i've been shooted different times by people with i've talked a lot and also from people i've helped (and sometimes cowardly from behind) 

You can't transform a bunch of pixel in something more, cause for you still remain what you are: a bunch of pixel.

you didn't die on you chair when i kill you and btw i think that without an emotional involvement poeple will kill each other without any regret.

So the only thing people can understand as guilt it's a tangible form of debuff that's the only thing that can give us some realism in gameplay

[todd10k 87]

bullshit, i've been shooted different times by people with i've talked a lot and also from people i've helped (and sometimes cowardly from behind) 

You can't transform a bunch of pixel in something more, cause for you still remain what you are: a bunch of pixel.

you didn't die on you chair when i kill you and btw i think that without an emotional involvement poeple will kill each other without any regret.

So the only thing people can understand as guilt it's a tangible form of debuff that's the only thing that can give us some realism in gameplay

 

Agreed, but up to a point. What makes us human is the unique, the imperfect, the emotion, the spark of life, and of course, the inevitable end. This thread is only talking about one of these points.

 

As i said, it's not the holy grail of KoS, but it's a step in the right direction.