DayZ should always be about survival...

[hefeweizen 254]

We can't play DayZ 24 / 7 so concessions to realism are allowed and imo in this case necessary. If this was real life, I'd have my base guarded 24 /7. Wouldn't you?

So, you want a little stash out in the open, completely off limits other players when you aren't around that will no doubt house a massive cache of weapons because nobody was able to nail down the two - three hours a day that you happen to play? The rest of the server won't be playing 24/7 either, and they want to bust your base on their time not wait around for a chance that you might be playing so that the magic force fields will lift.

Nothing about this screams good game play, what if someone only logs in twice a week? But their immortal fortress gets to sit right in the middle of town, where everyone can see it, but nobody can attempt to take it because magic? What about people who only log in once a month? How littered with crap do you want the servers to be, anyway?

No, what you're asking for here is a permanent indestructible base in the middle of everyone else's persistent world. Sorry, but a key aspect of DayZ is that the world keeps playing when you aren't around.

[mgc 92]

So, you want a little stash out in the open, completely off limits other players when you aren't around that will no doubt house a massive cache of weapons because nobody was able to nail down the two - three hours a day that you happen to play? The rest of the server won't be playing 24/7 either, and they want to bust your base on their time not wait around for a chance that you might be playing so that the magic force fields will lift.

Nothing about this screams good game play, what if someone only logs in twice a week? But their immortal fortress gets to sit right in the middle of town, where everyone can see it, but nobody can attempt to take it because magic? What about people who only log in once a month? How littered with crap do you want the servers to be, anyway?

No, what you're asking for here is a permanent indestructible base in the middle of everyone else's persistent world. Sorry, but a key aspect of DayZ is that the world keeps playing when you aren't around.

If you're that uptight about it, would you also advocate leaving players that log out on the server? You'd want to be able to steal my gear, also when I'm asleep, right? Or maybe even preferably when I'm asleep.

 

An easy fix would be setting a limit to how long you can stay away from DayZ before the magic disappears. Assuming you've at least heard of holidays, I think you'll agree on 2 weeks of 0 activity.

 

""But their immortal fortress gets to sit right in the middle of town""

Good luck building that.

 

""the world keeps playing when you aren't around.""

The world doesn't exist when you're not around. I'd like to keep it that way.

Edited April 5, 2014 by mgc

[gibonez 3633]

If you're that uptight about it, would you also advocate leaving players that log out on the server? You'd want to be able to steal my gear, also when I'm asleep, right? Or maybe even preferably when I'm asleep.

 

An easy fix would be setting a limit to how long you can stay away from DayZ before the magic disappears. Assuming you've at least heard of holidays, I think you'll agree on 2 weeks of 0 activity.

 

Eventually when private hives come into play.

 

And one player per server comes in, hopefully players will sleep and basebuilding and securing yourself with booby traps and fortifications will be important.

 

It is bullshit that you disappear when you log off.

 

 

Rust nails this aspect of being vulnerable when logged off.

[mgc 92]

snip

Rust nails this aspect of being vulnerable when logged off.

I don't want to be vulnerable when logged off because I can't afford to have a game rule my life.

Edited April 5, 2014 by mgc

[hefeweizen 254]

If you're that uptight about it, would you also advocate leaving players that log out on the server? You'd want to be able to steal my gear, also when I'm asleep, right? Or maybe even preferably when I'm asleep.

 

An easy fix would be setting a limit to how long you can stay away from DayZ before the magic disappears. Assuming you've at least heard of holidays, I think you'll agree on 2 weeks of 0 activity.

 

""But their immortal fortress gets to sit right in the middle of town""

Good luck building that.

 

""the world keeps playing when you aren't around.""

The world doesn't exist when you're not around. I'd like to keep it that way.

But the world does keep playing when you're not around. Vehicles can be taken, tents can be raided, spots you camp can be looted. This is how DayZ is, it is a major selling point to many many people and to completely ignore that precedent now would be suicidal of the devs. Hell, many people play this game specifically to hunt down hidden caches, you'd be completely killing that aspect of the game. Hell, why even hide your cache well if it is magic and can't be broken into. So I guess that aspect of the game goes out the window too. Seriously though, the devs are never going to add anything let alone something as powerful as bases that just can't be interacted with by anyone, except with the owners permission (which is essentially what you're asking for if you make this tied to your character being logged in).

They might add locks that require lock picks or explosives. They might make it generally very complex to bust someones base. But I can guarantee you that they will never ever in a million years add anything you can't carry on your survivor that will be safe from other players when you log out.

[LeChat 131]

Eventually when private hives come into play.

 

And one player per server comes in, hopefully players will sleep and basebuilding and securing yourself with booby traps and fortifications will be important.

 

It is bullshit that you disappear when you log off.

 

 

Rust nails this aspect of being vulnerable when logged off.

 

They're having open fires on a wooden floor, in a wooden house/shack...

You were linking a video about sleeping bags serving as spawn points when you die - nothing else is really mentioned. Did you link the wrong video or? Cause I was hoping to see some good solution for sleeping, but nowhere in the video does it mention sleeping or being vulnerable/safe when logging off.

[mgc 92]

But the world does keep playing when you're not around. Vehicles can be taken, tents can be raided, spots you camp can be looted. This is how DayZ is, it is a major selling point to many many people and to completely ignore that precedent now would be suicidal of the devs. Hell, many people play this game specifically to hunt down hidden caches, you'd be completely killing that aspect of the game. Hell, why even hide your cache well if it is magic and can't be broken into. So I guess that aspect of the game goes out the window too. Seriously though, the devs are never going to add anything let alone something as powerful as bases that just can't be interacted with by anyone, except with the owners permission (which is essentially what you're asking for if you make this tied to your character being logged in).

They might add locks that require lock picks or explosives. They might make it generally very complex to bust someones base. But I can guarantee you that they will never ever in a million years add anything you can't carry on your survivor that will be safe from other players when you log out.

""But the world does keep playing when you're not around.""

Currently the world can not affect you 30 seconds after logging off.

 

""Vehicles can be taken, tents can be raided, spots you camp can be looted. This is how DayZ is""

That's what the mods are / have become.

 

""many people play this game specifically to hunt down hidden caches""

It would still be wise to hide your base well. There will be plenty opportunity for those players.

 

""why even hide your cache well if it is magic and can't be broken into.""

Because it can be broken into when you're online and up to 5 minutes after you log.

 

""bases that just can't be interacted with by anyone""

That's not what I proposed. Better read, is better.

 

""They might add locks that require lock picks or explosives. They might make it generally very complex to bust someones base.""

Can't be done unless you have a timer for using tools on a base. No way you can protect an undefended base for more than a couple of minutes. Let alone 2 weeks.

 

""they will never ever in a million years add anything you can't carry on your survivor that will be safe from other players when you log out.""

Why stop there? You call that dedication to realism? You know you want to be naked in the dark every time you log on. lol

[gibonez 3633]

I don't want to be vulnerable when logged off because I can't afford to have a game rule my life.

 

It works fine in rust.

 

It would work fine in Dayz once you build a base.

 

Raiding a house or a base requires insane resources often times its not worth it.

 

The have your player instantly disappear mechanic is idiotic.

 

Not only that this would eliminate combat logging completely.

[gibonez 3633]

They're having open fires on a wooden floor, in a wooden house/shack...

You were linking a video about sleeping bags serving as spawn points when you die - nothing else is really mentioned. Did you link the wrong video or? Cause I was hoping to see some good solution for sleeping, but nowhere in the video does it mention sleeping or being vulnerable/safe when logging off.

 

http://youtu.be/1aNTiT3y874?t=3m28s

 

That shows what happens when you log off in rust. You simply go to sleep until you replay the game.

 

You stay safe by building a base and fortifying it with doors and metal doors or walls.

Players in order to break into your base need high explosives something very very very rare in rust.

Guy sleeping in the video musta been a new player just sleeping in the open with a bright campfire.

[mgc 92]

It works fine in rust.

 

It would work fine in Dayz once you build a base.

 

Raiding a house or a base requires insane resources often times its not worth it.

 

The have your player instantly disappear mechanic is idiotic.

 

Not only that this would eliminate combat logging completely.

""The have your player instantly disappear mechanic is idiotic.""

So is sleeping for 23 hours a day.

 

""Raiding a house or a base requires insane resources often times its not worth it.""

All you need is a sledgehammer (professionals use vehicles these days), pliers, a crowbar and maybe a blowtorch. No need to be unrealistic in that department.

[hefeweizen 254]

""But the world does keep playing when you're not around.""

Currently the world can not affect you 30 seconds after logging off.

Oh my god, stop being so obtuse. You either know damn well what I'm talking about, or you're really dense. I apologize if you're just really dense, I shouldn't be so frustrated with you if that is the case. The world exists while your character is away, other players are free to come and go as they please.

 

""Vehicles can be taken, tents can be raided, spots you camp can be looted. This is how DayZ is""

That's what the mods are / have become.

The standalone became a reality because the mod was so popular. Suffice it to say, the standalone will not be changing key features like all persistent world objects being interactable for all people playing in the world. There will also be loot, guns, hunting, cooking, vehicles and zombies as those are also key features of the DayZ mod. To assume any of those things will be changing is naive at best and willfully ignorant to the reality of the game your purchased at worst.

 

""many people play this game specifically to hunt down hidden caches""

It would still be wise to hide your base well. There will be plenty opportunity for those players.

Why? You can defend your base when you're on, and when you're not it would be in god mode. No reason not to put your base on a military base, nobody would check bases all the time anyway as most would have a magic force field up 21 hours a day.

 

""why even hide your cache well if it is magic and can't be broken into.""

Because it can be broken into when you're online and up to 5 minutes after you log.

See above. Godmode base 21 hours a day, nobody is going to check a base every time they pass it on the off chance the player is online so the the shields will be down.

 

""bases that just can't be interacted with by anyone""

That's not what I proposed. Better read, is better.

"without the players permission." You forgot that part. Out of context quote, is out of context. What you're saying is "I want a base, that unless I consciously give someone the opportunity (logging in) to bust into it, it'll be safe forever. Sorry, that isn't DayZ. Perhaps you want EQ2, or some other MMO with player housing.

 

""They might add locks that require lock picks or explosives. They might make it generally very complex to bust someones base.""

Can't be done unless you have a timer for using tools on a base. No way you can protect an undefended base for more than a couple of minutes. Let alone 2 weeks. 

Or you make the tools to bust into bases rare. Hell, make 'em really really rare. But completely take away the option of busting a players base for the 21 hours? Nope.

 

""they will never ever in a million years add anything you can't carry on your survivor that will be safe from other players when you log out.""

Why stop there? You call that dedication to realism? You know you want to be naked in the dark every time you log on. lol

I didn't say a word about realism. I told you what DayZ is, and what it isn't.

 

Anyway, the whole conversation is moot. As there is no way it anything close to what you want will ever happen, I'm looking around for the right video without any luck, but Rocket has said as much when base building is brought up. But I'll bump this tomorrow so everyone else can confirm how terribly unpopular this idea would be with the DayZ community.

G'Night.

Edited April 5, 2014 by Hefeweizen

[gibonez 3633]

""The have your player instantly disappear mechanic is idiotic.""

So is sleeping for 23 hours a day.

 

""Raiding a house or a base requires insane resources often times its not worth it.""

All you need is a sledgehammer (professionals use vehicles these days), pliers, a crowbar and maybe a blowtorch. No need to be unrealistic in that department.

 

 

Still a better solution than whats in place now.

 

Just disappearing out of thin air makes for terrible gameplay its the reason why combat logging and kos is so prevalent.

 

Being vulnerable at all times will force people to exit in a safe area or fortify a location and team up with players to keep each other safe.

 

The rust sleep mechanic builds communities of people who help each other out .

[mgc 92]

 

""But the world does keep playing when you're not around.""

Currently the world can not affect you 30 seconds after logging off.

Oh my god, stop being so obtuse. You either know damn well what I'm talking about, or you're really dense. I apologize if you're just really dense, I shouldn't be so frustrated with you if that is the case. The world exists while your character is away, other players are free to come and go as they please.

 

""Vehicles can be taken, tents can be raided, spots you camp can be looted. This is how DayZ is""

That's what the mods are / have become.

The standalone became a reality because the mod was so popular. Suffice it to say, the standalone will not be changing key features like all persistent world objects being interactable for all people playing in the world. There will also be loot, guns, hunting, cooking, vehicles and zombies as those are also key features of the DayZ mod. To assume any of those things will be changing is naive at best and willfully ignorant to the reality of the game your purchased at worst.

 

""many people play this game specifically to hunt down hidden caches""

It would still be wise to hide your base well. There will be plenty opportunity for those players.

Why? You can defend your base when you're on, and when you're not it would be in god mode. No reason not to put your base on a military base, nobody would check bases all the time anyway as most would have a magic force field up 21 hours a day.

 

""why even hide your cache well if it is magic and can't be broken into.""

Because it can be broken into when you're online and up to 5 minutes after you log.

See above. Godmode base 21 hours a day, nobody is going to check a base every time they pass it on the off chance the player is online so the the shields will be down.

 

""bases that just can't be interacted with by anyone""

That's not what I proposed. Better read, is better.

"without the players permission." You forgot that part. Out of context quote, is out of context. What you're saying is "I want a base, that unless I consciously give someone the opportunity (logging in) to bust into it, it'll be safe forever. Sorry, that isn't DayZ. Perhaps you want EQ2, or some other MMO with player housing.

 

""They might add locks that require lock picks or explosives. They might make it generally very complex to bust someones base.""

Can't be done unless you have a timer for using tools on a base. No way you can protect an undefended base for more than a couple of minutes. Let alone 2 weeks. 

Or you make the tools to bust into bases rare. Hell, make 'em really really rare. But completely take away the option of busting a players base for the 21 hours? Nope.

 

""they will never ever in a million years add anything you can't carry on your survivor that will be safe from other players when you log out.""

Why stop there? You call that dedication to realism? You know you want to be naked in the dark every time you log on. lol

I didn't say a word about realism. I told you what DayZ is, and what it isn't.

 

""The world exists while your character is away, other players are free to come and go as they please.""

Yes, and I'm saying the same should apply to bases so the world can't affect you when you're not playing the game. As far as consequences for your character / base go, the world might as well not exist when you're doing something other than play DayZ.

 

""key features like all persistent world objects being interactable for all people playing in the world ""

Apart from character owned objects, you mean.

 

""Why? You can defend your base when you're on""

I don't see anything wrong with that. Sounds very realistic to me.

 

""nobody would check bases all the time""

Why not? It's currently all I'm doing. Usually there's nothing of interest.

 

"""without the players permission.""" ""(logging in)""

Fair enough. Yes, that's what I want.

 

""take away the option of busting a players base for the 21 hours""

That base being undefended for 21 hours a day is the unrealistic part. You want to take over an enemy base? Bleed for it.

 

""I told you what DayZ is, and what it isn't.""

While were on this mountain, you may want to dictate some commandments? I've got a chisel right here...

[Mukaparska 55]

Many of you have said "occupying bases is part of survival" etc. , but that's exactly what I'm against (except maybe barricading houses, but I don't know how that would affect the game's mechanics). Of course in real life at some part, humans would unite and create a safe community to live, with small economy and such, that's the best way to SURVIVE and that's how our modern civilization started to form thousands of years ago.  But the thing is, that this game is not about that. This game is about survival in a "no man's land", where everyone might be an enemy and you're constantly "dependent" on loot and supplies. This is not Minecraft where you are "surviving" at first, but then you build a house and become self-sufficient and zombies and other "dangers" are only a minor nuisance. The main point of this game should not change. This should not become an ARMA RP on post-apocalyptic setting. I've also read original DayZ mod would've lost it's main point and is basically a gang war game on post-apocalyptic world these days.
 

Yeah, pretty much. I want a game that develops over time, using the playerbase as a springboard. In real life, I wouldn't want to have to constantly move around from destroyed town to destroyed town, braving starvation, the elements, and the beasts in human form, both living and dead, for a can of beans and some ammo. I would want to eventually move into a stronghold, where I can work for a productive end, and sleep at night without fear of being eaten. I am willing to bet that for 99% of the human population, the whole "woo hoo no laws total freedom!" bit would get real old, real fast. Especially once they realize that they now have to work for EVERYTHING they want.

 

Granted, I don't think the engine could support towns, with agriculture, industry, and the trappings of civilization, but I digress.

TLDR: keeping the game locked to a theme of loot-n-shoot is foolish, both from a real-life perspective, and from a developmental standpoint. You can only loot the same buildings so many times before you get bored. But, have something to work for, something to LIVE for, and the game will become that much more better.

 

Really? What is the point of all this if it becomes like normal ARMA RP? Isn't DayZ SUPPOSED to be loot-n-shoot?

 

But I don't want to survive... I want to live and thrive, rebuild my home town defend it and try and get things back go a form of normal. Like what I would do in a real situation like this.

That and I want to have a city or area secured where zombies can't spawn as like a safe haven. For new spawns, and the veterans alike to meet up share supllies, get away from the fact that they had to kill their own infected family, group up, create a city that is only successful because of people working together to do more than survive.
But instead you suggest that we have to keep looking over our backs, for zombies and players alike, constantly move and look for basic necessities almost constantly and never try and create a sense of social or community interaction outside of your group of 5-6 guys killing everyone they see afraid to go near other survivors.

 

Yes, because as far as I know, surviving is the main point of this game? If you don't want to "survive", play some other game. If I want to shoot people in a game, I don't suggest that they add firearms to Gran Turismo so it would become an FPS shooter. I simply play something else then. 

Edited April 6, 2014 by Inception.
Approved and merged.

[mgc 92]

Still a better solution than whats in place now.

 

Just disappearing out of thin air makes for terrible gameplay its the reason why combat logging and kos is so prevalent.

 

Being vulnerable at all times will force people to exit in a safe area or fortify a location and team up with players to keep each other safe.

 

The rust sleep mechanic builds communities of people who help each other out .

""the reason why combat logging and kos is so prevalent.""

It's because the average player age is 12. Kos has nothing to do with discontinuing the game.

 

""exit in a safe area""

No such thing should exist while playing DayZ

 

""team up with players to keep each other safe.""

That will happen anyway. You screw the lone wolves if you force it.

[gibonez 3633]

""the reason why combat logging and kos is so prevalent.""

It's because the average player age is 12. Kos has nothing to do with discontinuing the game.

 

""exit in a safe area""

No such thing should exist while playing DayZ

 

""team up with players to keep each other safe.""

That will happen anyway. You screw the lone wolves if you force it.

 

1, KOS is prevalent because life means little in dayz, having your character posses resources on him that he is trying to get back to base will make him avoid conflict.

 

2. "safe" areas would be in the woods hidden from people, fortified locations that you barricated , player bases or communities that a group of friends use to look after each other.

 

3. You cannot cater to any group in dayz, the disadvantages that lone wolves would have if sleeping would be introduced would be no different than real life, safety in numbers has always been a thing.

Lone wolves actually stand to benefit from this, smaller profile = less enemies targeting them they can have a remote base that does not have a large profile and live in peace.

[hefeweizen 254]

""The world exists while your character is away, other players are free to come and go as they please.""

Yes, and I'm saying the same should apply to bases so the world can't affect you when you're not playing the game. As far as consequences for your character / base go, the world might as well not exist when you're doing something other than play DayZ.

 

""key features like all persistent world objects being interactable for all people playing in the world ""

Apart from character owned objects, you mean.

No, I mean all interactable objects that are persistent to server in the world are interactable for all players. No object becomes static just because the last person who operated/constructed it it logs out. Nor will they ever.

 

""Why? You can defend your base when you're on""

I don't see anything wrong with that. Sounds very realistic to me.

and because your base is either defended or god mode it is essentially safe forever.

""nobody would check bases all the time""

Why not? It's currently all I'm doing. Usually there's nothing of interest.

Maybe you have aspergers or something, and it causes you to act weirdly and do things that don't make sense to others. But I know that the rest of the world would stop checking the magic carebear unicorn force field bases that are invincible 21 hours a day after the sixth or seventh time.

 

"""without the players permission.""" ""(logging in)""

Fair enough. Yes, that's what I want.

DayZ isn't a game that allows you the benefit of deciding every time you or your stuff is in danger. That is kind of the point.

 

""take away the option of busting a players base for the 21 hours""

That base being undefended for 21 hours a day is the unrealistic part. You want to take over an enemy base? Bleed for it.

You fell asleep/were out looking for supplies/really high and your base was overrun. Whats unrealistic?

 

""I told you what DayZ is, and what it isn't.""

While were on this mountain, you may want to dictate some commandments? I've got a chisel right here...

What do you want? Me to powder your bum and tell you that "If you hold your breath and wish real hard, your stupid idea might come true."? No, the reality is that the way you want bases to function isn't going to happen. Ever. Immortal carebear hidey hole bases are not going to be part of DayZ. Hell, have you ever read these forums or played DayZ? Do you think the community would even entertain your idea? Seriously? Please, I beg you to start a topic based around this idea and see what kind of response you get. I guarantee the overwhelming response to it will be entirely negative.

[mgc 92]

Only cowards would want this level of persistence. You just want to raid bases the easy way. Dare taking a risk scouting for activity. If you want to wait in the bush until I leave for supplies, that's cool. Nothing against that. It will be my responsibility to ensure you won't get that opportunity.

 

""and because your base is either defended or god mode it is essentially safe forever.""

Base assault should be hard but not impossible.

 

""the rest of the world would stop checking the magic carebear unicorn force field bases that are invincible 21 hours a day after the sixth or seventh time.""

Guess how often I check barracks for loot. Even if nothing of interest has spawned there for 10 times in a row. Always.

 

""the overwhelming response to it will be entirely negative.""

Did I mention the cause of kos and combat logging?

Should I care what the overwhelming response will be?

Have a biblical flood for all I care.

 

Sleeping for 23 hours a day is not realistic.

[gorvi 189]

Accelerated time servers could use a sleep function.  Anything compressed below 8 hours for a full 24 hours.  Elsewise, sleep is naturally provided by the player.

 

I think safe zones will be large communities.  It will be up to the player to fortify their base. Building just outside of a major city or airstrip being a bad idea unless you have a large group of people who play at different times.

 

Survival should be very tough.  I want the game to take great inspiration from deans brush with nature.

 

Also, survivor man.

 

This is a good episode.  Also, climate is similar to Chernarus.

 

http://youtu.be/CNxoSW0w6kA

[gibonez 3633]

Only cowards would want this level of persistence.

 

WTF ?

 

Shouldn't it be the opposite. You know the persistence applies to everyone. They would be just as susceptible to it as you would.

[mgc 92]

If you want to take my base, you should do it from under my nose. Not when my character is comatosed because there's nobody home to animate it. It's cheap and unrealistic.

[gibonez 3633]

If you want to take my base, you should do it from under my nose. Not when my character is comatosed because there's nobody home to animate it. It's cheap and unrealistic.

 

How is it cheap and unrealistic.

 

Do people not sleep in your world ?

 

Either buddy up or guess what you would be easy pickings.

 

Simply vanishing from the world with all of your best belongings on you is what is cheap. Game lacks any danger and persistence thats a problem.

[mgc 92]

How is it cheap and unrealistic.

 

Do people not sleep in your world ?

 

Either buddy up or guess what you would be easy pickings.

 

Simply vanishing from the world with all of your best belongings on you is what is cheap. Game lacks any danger and persistence thats a problem.

When I sleep in the real world, I can wake up. And I don't sleep for 23 hours a day.

You want danger? Come attack my base with me in it.

[eleventhavenue 204]

What? No...

If I build something, and then log out, will the items magically disappear?

That is the non-cheap and unrealistic alternative?

 

Everything magically disappears??

 

How about this: If you want to be able to defend your base, you need people manning it. If not, you will not be able to defend your base.

I'm not sure how people imagine base building, but some people seem to imagine it as some kind of Field Fortification with a huge pile of supplies, weapons and vehicles that have been hoarded for two weeks...

[Nocturnal (DayZ) 85]

I'm not sure DayZ is or has ever been about survival.

 

I'm not saying I wouldn't like it to be about survival or that's not what the devs want to make it, but the Standalone and all the versions of the mod of DayZ I've played have always been more PVP than survival. It is what it is. The environment has always been too easy and it's always been too easy to gear up. It's up to the developers to change this.

 

More hunger, more disease, more zombies and less weapons is what's needed. The majority of the player-base wouldn't like this though - just look at the popular versions of the mod and the abundance of servers with thousands of vehicles and epic starting loot.

 

The situation is unfortunate (imo), but it is true.