Playstyle consequences

[finnpalm 312]

I've been thinking for a while now about the different consequences of the different available playstyles in the game. Here is what I've come up with so far, but I'd really like to hear your input on this. Please understand however that "I did this once and that happened" is not the kind of consequence I'm talking about (that's a consequence of action). What I want to talk about is the "I play like this all the time and almost all of the time this results in that" experiences (consequence of playstyle), so let's try to keep this somewhat pseudo scientific, please. ;) Oh, and do understand that anything we come up with here is subject to change as the game development goes on and the game changes so this is only relevant to the current build of the game.

 

Let's start with being friendly:

 

When I play "friendly" I avoid people. Why is that? Because I'm aware that the majority as of now shoots on sight, which means my chances of survival are slim if I approach them, even unarmed and hands above my head. So basically if I see someone with a gun I'm getting the hell out of there. Even if I am armed as well. If I see someone with only a melee weapon or unarmed I will just keep my distance, and if they get too close I back off to keep that distance. When I don't see people I'm still extremely paranoid, and peek around every corner. I run short distances at a time and stop, hide and scan the surroundings before I move forward, basically avoiding people preemptively. And I kind of like it like that. The paranoia. It's one of the things about zombie movies I really enjoy, since I'm normally not into horror movies with their prevalent jump scares, and zombie movies that mostly build on uneasiness and paranoia is an exception to that.

 

Consequence: I get to interact with very few people. The few times I get to interact at all (not counting shouting "don't shoot" over the VOIP and running away) it's usually very brief, exchanging a few sentences and maybe trade an item or two, and then split ways. Because of the paranoia I really can't trust a person even though they're friendly initially.

 

Now let's look at killing on sight or "KoS" as it's usually abbreviated:

 

This is a playstyle I have yet to try all out, so basically I'll instead analyze my experiences from getting shot at on sight (note that I do not include people stalking me for a long time before opening fire into this. You may argue that I can't know if that's the case or not, but as I know under what circumstances I have been shot at, I can say with certainty that the people attacking me have not been following me for a long time. They either happen to see me and decide to shoot, or they have been waiting for someone to show up that they can shoot at). This playstyle can be adapted for several reasons. Of the more relevant to this discussion, I'd like to point to a few. The above mentioned paranoia often makes people open fire reflexively and afterwards saying "Sorry, you scared me" and then turn out to be friendly people. When I'm ambushed on the other hand, the people shooting at me are clearly out to just kill. Not interested in getting any loot from it since they ruin it with their shots. In the latter case the people ambushing me seldom interact at all. Only once so far have I been spoken to, by someone who opened fire at me, and what he said was "Hey dude" or something like that, and then shot me dead. Apart from that time no-one that have shot at me (no matter if they've managed to kill me or not) have said a word. It doesn't seem to matter if I speak to them either. I never get any replies and even if I did I'd still be on my way out of there, or dead.

 

Consequence: No interaction.

 

Next I'd like to look at banditry, but as I have yet to experience getting properly robbed without being executed, or being captured and tortured, I can't really go into detail on this one.

 

Consequence: n/a.

 

Summary:

 

I'd like to add that when playing friendly I often fight the urge to start shooting other players. This urge is clearly a product of them shooting at me, and it's not that I feel like shooting indiscriminately. It's that I want revenge, payback or to get even. This does not apply when I get killed, which would obviously make me a griefer, and I prefer to keep my character lives separate in my mind. Anyway, my observation when it comes to this is that killing on sight spawns more killing on sight, because that's currently the most safe way to stay safe. The likelihood that someone you see will kill you if they see you is so high that you're often in the right if shooting them preemptively.

 

My second observation, and arguably most important, is that interaction between players in this game is going down the drain. Since the majority is hostile people stop interacting, even when they have nothing to lose, and instead play with their friends over teamspeak or the likes. This creates a "we or them" mentality separating players, as opposed to a "we or them" mentality separating players and zombies, with the "psychotic murderer" players being the exception.

 

---------------------------------------

 

Anyway, I'd appreciate if you would discuss this and preferably add some notes about banditry to fill out the list above. My guess is that playing as a proper bandit (not murdering people) is among the more difficult playstyles to pull off since holding someone up most likely results in them trying to run away, and after you cuff someone and take their stuff, if you release them most likely ends up with them attacking you since they will "have nothing to lose".

 

Oh, and please do not derail this into a "KoS sucks" thread. Try to stay objective. Thank you.

Edited March 14, 2014 by Strawman

[enforcer1975 1111]

My second observation, and arguably most important, is that interaction between players in this game is going down the drain.

 

You are absolutely wrong in this case...we have plenty of interaction......by exchanging bullets... :rolleyes:

Edited March 14, 2014 by Enforcer

[Irish. 4886]

Player interaction is everything from running away... ignoring the guy.. shooting him in the face.. and saying, "Hey, buddy want an HJ?" 

 

It all is interaction. And from what I personally have seen, the interaction in Dayz is just like its always been. Some good. Some bad. 

 

 

Now, as far as my style goes. Its all of the above. I do hero, I do KOS, I do bandit, I do medic, and I do friendly. But I find it most fun to stalk and hunt others. I dont ambush as a tactic, that shit is super boring and lacks extensive skills to accomplish. I like challenges. I hunt in high PVP zones only. My favorite is to find a group of players looting barracks or mil bases.. I then proceed to pick them off one by one, constantly moving making them think my numbers are greater than theirs..

 

Because to hunt armed men, is the greatest challenge I have ever been a part of and Ive been hooked ever since my very first experience with it.. :)

[finnpalm 312]

You are absolutely wrong in this case...we have plenty of interaction......by exchanging bullets... :rolleyes:

 

 

Player interaction is everything from running away... ignoring the guy.. shooting him in the face.. and saying, "Hey, buddy want an HJ?" 

 

It all is interaction. And from what I personally have seen, the interaction in Dayz is just like its always been. Some good. Some bad. 

 

 

Now, as far as my style goes. Its all of the above. I do hero, I do KOS, I do bandit, I do medic, and I do friendly. But I find it most fun to stalk and hunt others. I dont ambush as a tactic, that shit is super boring and lacks extensive skills to accomplish. I like challenges. I hunt in high PVP zones only. My favorite is to find a group of players looting barracks or mil bases.. I then proceed to pick them off one by one, constantly moving making them think my numbers are greater than theirs..

 

Because to hunt armed men, is the greatest challenge I have ever been a part of and Ive been hooked ever since my very first experience with it.. :)

 

Ok, if you consider shooting someone interaction, fine. That's a very limited form of interaction however, and if that's the only kind of interaction that exists in the game my point still stands. Preferably would of course be to have a wide variety of interaction.

[Korsbaek 1778]

Player interaction is shooting him in the face

 

 

Ehm... Not quite...

[Griz2 77]

I die a lot. Usually because I take the risk of interacting with others. It's frustrating to team up with someone and help them out only to be shot in the back by them later. I try to follow the old rule of treat others as you would be treated. No, it's not the best way to survive but if survival was all I cared about I'd go sit in a forest up North somewhere. It is, however, the best way to make interesting friends and have some great experiences. If you kill everyone you come across or even avoid them completely then you lose that and you might as well play some offline fps game.

 

Now for the people who say "I kill everyone on sight because most of them will do it to me". You are A PART of the problem, not APART from the problem. You are contributing to the same thing you are complaining about. Perhaps you think that you cannot make a difference, being only one person, but think of every positive experience that you have, that leaves at least one other person with the same experience. Maybe some of them will go on to seek out the same experiences with others. If you want to have better experiences with others then lead by example. Of course there are plenty of angry children out there who just want to see the world burn, but don't let them ruin your game for you. Just take a risk but use a little caution.

 

Also I'm all for PvP, but mowing down fresh spawns and shooting someone in the back from 500m away when they aren't even aware that you're there is hardly PvP. If they don't have a reasonable chance to fight back, it's not PvP, it's just murder and very unimaginative trolling.

[Gekkonidae 270]

If you want to have better experiences with others then lead by example. 

 

Yep, and this is the risk you take. Sure. 95% of people will shoot at you first or on-sight. If you want there to be friendlier people out there, you yourself have to stick it out and risk it in order for that situation to ever become anywhere near a normal occurrence for players. 

 

Being friendly is many times a thankless job. Mainly because while your intentions mean well, but sometimes you never get a chance to explain yourself before taking some lead to the dome. Where if you had the chance to explain yourself, the assailant likely would have not decided to gank you. 

 

Unfortunately, that's the truth. I've taken the hero path lately to experiment with it. I find it a lot more challenging than being a bandit, but the interactions seem to be a bit more broad and enjoyable, if you're into interacting with people. So, to me, that's the trade off. If you would like a potentially more enjoyable and fulfilling interactions with other players, then you have to risk your life by playing that way, and offering your generosity to others. If that isn't your thing, and you want to stalk people and kill them, then you can play that way, too. However, I find the former role a lot harder to maintain. To me, personally, I like the reward of another player to have your back when you're friendly. It always ends up being a unique experience. Not to say that being a bandit or a killer doesn't have its unique rewards either, because it does. I just happen to like the experiences I get more by risking it and being friendly. It's all about how you enjoy playing really. I do wish there were a little bit more friendlier people out there at the moment, but I've realized you have to set the example yourself if you want to see the numbers change.

[over9000nukez 199]

Hero can be a bit unrewarding, after like 2 people meet you, you give them food, the next person you meet they usually knock you out/ shoot you. Only reward is interaction, which i feel is a "meh" reward, because it only lasts for like 5 minutes. then as i said before you get knocked out.

[mugur 123]

actually i do interact. a lot.

it is sad truth that most of the time interaction ends with me being killed or at least shot at

several times. but is not always like that. lately i am making friends (although i am

always traveling alone). irish is one of them.

 

in short words this game can offer you whatever kind of interaction you want.

just be realistic and don't expect to end up every time like you want it. most of the times will

be totally opposite... 

 

 

and i have one simple idea (feel free to trash it to death)

is that most of the koS (unintentional i mean) are because all the damn players on this game

are running with their primary drawn! WTF...? i never walk with a weapon and not even with the axe unless 

the zeds are getting their love towards me...

 

but that is just my idea...

Edited March 14, 2014 by mugur

[Wyrmgol 26]

Ok, if you consider shooting someone interaction, fine. That's a very limited form of interaction however, and if that's the only kind of interaction that exists in the game my point still stands. Preferably would of course be to have a wide variety of interaction.

Most people participate in many ranges of play to differing degrees at differing times due to differing circumstances.

I doubt there are many people that just shoot everyone all the time with no exceptions.  Just like there aren't many people who are 100% friendly all the time with no exceptions.

 

I'd wager that most people fall in the middle and participate in both.

[finnpalm 312]

Maybe it's just my playstyle that is contradictory. I want to stay alive as long as possible, so I sort of stay away from people, but I want to interact with people at the same time. Maybe I just need to make up my mind.  :lol:

 

I'll give it a go to risk it every time I see someone from now on. The game is in alpha anyway, so I might just as well get killed a couple of times now, rather than later. ;)

 

Thanks for all the input guys. I think I'll try changing my playstyle around a bit and see where that takes me.

 

I would like this discussion to go on a little longer though, so how about you tell me what the consequences of your playstyles have been? Are you generally managing to stay alive through encounters where you interact verbally with others?

[twizzm 34]

I love murderers and bandits. The rush I get just seeing someone else makes the game for me. Never know what will happen. Unfortunately I'm not going to spend 20 minutes running, so it's going to be you who dies.

DayZ community is no different then the sashayed who play rRust and cry all day about being raided and KOS. It's like people want to build a lame endless wood base with no risk at all. Play minecraft then.

[execpro22 128]

 

 

My second observation, and arguably most important, is that interaction between players in this game is going down the drain. Since the majority is hostile people stop interacting, even when they have nothing to lose, and instead play with their friends over teamspeak or the likes. This creates a "we or them" mentality separating players, as opposed to a "we or them" mentality separating players and zombies, with the "psychotic murderer" players being the exception.

 

 

Your definition of interaction  and mine are completely different. I feel I get more "interaction" from players during a shoot out than I would just from having a conversation with them....

 

 

What exactly makes you think that it  has to be played as a "we or them" scenario against zombies instead of people? Why can't it be both?

 

 

 

 

 My guess is that playing as a proper bandit (not murdering people) is among the more difficult playstyles to pull off since holding someone up most likely results in them trying to run away, and after you cuff someone and take their stuff, if you release them most likely ends up with them attacking you since they will "have nothing to lose".

 

Oh, and please do not derail this into a "KoS sucks" thread. Try to stay objective. Thank you.

 

 

 

Proper bandit? Are you saying there is a "proper" way to play the playstyle?

 

 

The one major fallacy with your logic in this thread is that you are under the delusion that this game needs to be played a certain way to be fun...

 

 

There are NO rules or "proper" ways to play this game.

 

A person KOS people can have just as much "interaction" in this game from KOS as from being a friendly... Some of the most interactive and tense moments I have had in this game have come from choosing to KOS....

[finnpalm 312]

Your definition of interaction  and mine are completely different. I feel I get more "interaction" from players during a shoot out than I would just from having a conversation with them....

 

 

What exactly makes you think that it  has to be played as a "we or them" scenario against zombies instead of people? Why can't it be both?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Proper bandit? Are you saying there is a "proper" way to play the playstyle?

 

 

The one major fallacy with your logic in this thread is that you are under the delusion that this game needs to be played a certain way to be fun...

 

 

There are NO rules or "proper" ways to play this game.

 

A person KOS people can have just as much "interaction" in this game from KOS as from being a friendly... Some of the most interactive and tense moments I have had in this game have come from choosing to KOS....

 

You're reading me wrong. I'll try to explain my point of view clearer.

 

I never said it can't be played as both "us vs zombies" and "us vs us". I'm trying to point out that it's a bit slanted at the moment, which brings me to your other point.

 

You're assuming I think there is a "right" way to play the game. Read through my post again. Do I ever say that? Is that my point of the thread? Or was I interested in discussing the consequences of different styles of play? The latter obviously.

 

With "proper bandit" I mean a person who actually robs someone. That's banditry. If your definition of "bandit" is anyone who shoots people, then you have a looser definition, which is obviously fine. But what I'm talking about when I talk about bandits are those who do hold-ups, and either rob people and let them go, or rob them and then kill them. Sure, you can argue that shooting someone first and then taking their stuff constitutes banditry, and you can be right about that. But that's not my definition. The second observation I did in my first post about interaction should give you a clue to that.

 

I don't really care how you choose to play, other than I would love to hear what consequences you have experienced in-game due to your choice.

 

Please don't be defensive, and please don't assume too much about my point of view and whatnot. It's easier to ask. Because if you just make up points that you deem me having and then argue against them, you're making a strawman argument. ;)

Edited March 15, 2014 by Strawman

[Bearserk 57]

I must admit that getting shot out by a sniper you didn't know was there is pretty boring.

If you are on skype / teamspeak with a friend and you snipe someone who never knew what hit him it's a lot of fun.

 

On the other hand, I've met a few players who weren't insta aggrod which I've chatted with. It usually boils down to "I won't shoot. Let's team up. Nah" and we both go our seperate ways. More times than not I shot them anyway for loot. (I try to keep them alive so they don't have to run back, however)

 

I really wish to experience those massive encounters you see in streams and videos, where two or more large teams both take base and engage eachother trying to protect bambis / their location / their teammates. I've had one minor team firefight so far and it's pumping you full of adrenaline. It's amazing.

[irl-calibre 744]

I think you're confusing cowardly with friendly tbh.. carry on.

[Munson_fry (DayZ) 312]

i almost never die because of other Players

the only thing that killed me so far is my own stupdty

( ok the first 10 hours Dont count )

Sounds self secure but 95% of my prey die Not give a shit about their l i f e

Otherwhise the would have act smart

[Munson_fry (DayZ) 312]

i almost never die because of other Players

the only thing that killed me so far is my own stupdty

( ok the first 10 hours Dont count )

Sounds self secure but 95% of my prey die Not give a shit about their l i f e

Otherwhise the would have act smart

[So Sexy 259]

KOS consequences - no waste of time with so called "player interaction ", free stuff.

[strayshadow 81]

Direct Chat 4TW!

 

 I don't care for gear, I gear up depending on what I feel like doing and this can give me hideously impractical load-outs. If I die I respawn and after a few minutes of gameplay I'm geared again =D

 

 If I see someone first I'll make my merry way over to them, trying to keep them totally ignorant of my existence until I'm within direct chat range. Once there I try and have them in my view so I can monitor their reaction to me and call out to them. You can tell by their reaction as to their intentions and then as they don't know where you are you are in a position to come out and meet them, drift back into the undergrowth or if they're now on a rampage for your mortal remains, kill them.

 

 No bullshit, 90% of the players I have encountered in this way have been friendly, even in situations in which the other guy had the upper hand and both of us are fully geared you can calm the other guy down and both can leave alive. There are plenty of videos on youtube and stories on here of exactly these encounters.

[finnpalm 312]

Direct Chat 4TW!

 

 I don't care for gear, I gear up depending on what I feel like doing and this can give me hideously impractical load-outs. If I die I respawn and after a few minutes of gameplay I'm geared again =D

 

 If I see someone first I'll make my merry way over to them, trying to keep them totally ignorant of my existence until I'm within direct chat range. Once there I try and have them in my view so I can monitor their reaction to me and call out to them. You can tell by their reaction as to their intentions and then as they don't know where you are you are in a position to come out and meet them, drift back into the undergrowth or if they're now on a rampage for your mortal remains, kill them.

 

 No bullshit, 90% of the players I have encountered in this way have been friendly, even in situations in which the other guy had the upper hand and both of us are fully geared you can calm the other guy down and both can leave alive. There are plenty of videos on youtube and stories on here of exactly these encounters.

 

I've seen those videos too, but I almost never meet another player that is alone. :(

[Spidey (DayZ) 78]

Well, to me, all the interaction I get in game, is pretty sh*tty and not existent. As I'm mostly friendly and stealthy, killing bandits if I see any, and trying to save the good guys. 

 

I also have my dark side, of course, here's an example - yesterday I went to the NE airfield, I was unarmed. Met a guy, he didn't shoot me, and we talked for a bit. Then I asked if he does have any weapons for me by any chance. He gave me a loaded revolver. I just said "Im sorry, mate  and filled his right eye with a bullet. Took all of his stuff and left, and I'm proud of that kill just because it got myself geared up very quickly and only one guy had to die for that. But after that, I never KoS'd or anything, if I didn't have to. Ended up myself beign killed by a random sniper from 500+ meters when I just heard a shot and was immediately unconscious, and then dead.

 

 

But this will get better, after the zombies are better. There will be a LOT of them, hopefully, so shooting will mean you'll attract a horde, and reveal your position. Thus, making yourself a sitting duck waiting for it's execution. That is going to be the ultimate counter to banditry and KoS. Stealth and the alarmed zombies. And maybe some unpenetrable vests 'n stuff.I don't believe that you instantly just fall down unconscious after a bullet to the leg or arm or something. Thats bullshit, that will need to be more realistic as well. 

[execpro22 128]

You're reading me wrong. I'll try to explain my point of view clearer.

 

I never said it can't be played as both "us vs zombies" and "us vs us". I'm trying to point out that it's a bit slanted at the moment, which brings me to your other point.

 

You're assuming I think there is a "right" way to play the game. Read through my post again. Do I ever say that? Is that my point of the thread? Or was I interested in discussing the consequences of different styles of play? The latter obviously.

 

With "proper bandit" I mean a person who actually robs someone. That's banditry. If your definition of "bandit" is anyone who shoots people, then you have a looser definition, which is obviously fine. But what I'm talking about when I talk about bandits are those who do hold-ups, and either rob people and let them go, or rob them and then kill them. Sure, you can argue that shooting someone first and then taking their stuff constitutes banditry, and you can be right about that. But that's not my definition. The second observation I did in my first post about interaction should give you a clue to that.

 

I don't really care how you choose to play, other than I would love to hear what consequences you have experienced in-game due to your choice.

 

Please don't be defensive, and please don't assume too much about my point of view and whatnot. It's easier to ask. Because if you just make up points that you deem me having and then argue against them, you're making a strawman argument. ;)

 

 

Ok I got it. The only thing I was arguing about was your use of "proper" which you have explained.

 

And yes I do have a looser definition..at least thats what she said...

 

 

Consequences I would say Is that contrary to popular belief bandits have alot shorter lifespans as we are putting our selves in danger more often than a friendly and I get into alot more firefights.

 

I would say a Bandits life span is probably only a couple of days at best...

[finnpalm 312]

Ok I got it. The only thing I was arguing about was your use of "proper" which you have explained.

 

And yes I do have a looser definition..at least thats what she said...

 

 

Consequences I would say Is that contrary to popular belief bandits have alot shorter lifespans as we are putting our selves in danger more often than a friendly and I get into alot more firefights.

 

I would say a Bandits life span is probably only a couple of days at best...

 

And do you ever rob people in-game, in the way I think of banditry? Or do you shoot first, and maybe take their stuff later?

 

See, I'm testing out currently how to go about playing as a bandit (gotta try different things to know what you like, right?) and although I haven't been at it for long, I'm having a hard time figuring out how you get into a firefight unless you approach a person or persons openly, out of cover. Either if you try to rob someone you would want to get up from one of their dead angles and tell them to not move. Alternatively if you play as such that you shoot first and then maybe loot them, you would want to stay at a distance. Either way, I don't see how a bandit (my definition) gets into firefights.

 

Now, if having a KoS-like playstyle I can totally see how one would get into a lot of dangerous situations. Since you'll probably take more chances to attack someone than a bandit (again my definition) would. If you're after loot, you'll choose between the people you meet and might not bother trying to rob a fresh spawn, while if you're in it for the kill thrills you'll pick a fight with more people.

[Window Licker 504]

Direct Chat 4TW!

 

 I don't care for gear, I gear up depending on what I feel like doing and this can give me hideously impractical load-outs. If I die I respawn and after a few minutes of gameplay I'm geared again =D

 

 If I see someone first I'll make my merry way over to them, trying to keep them totally ignorant of my existence until I'm within direct chat range. Once there I try and have them in my view so I can monitor their reaction to me and call out to them. You can tell by their reaction as to their intentions and then as they don't know where you are you are in a position to come out and meet them, drift back into the undergrowth or if they're now on a rampage for your mortal remains, kill them.

 

 No bullshit, 90% of the players I have encountered in this way have been friendly, even in situations in which the other guy had the upper hand and both of us are fully geared you can calm the other guy down and both can leave alive. There are plenty of videos on youtube and stories on here of exactly these encounters.

First off prop's to Irish, hunting geared players and shooting them down, I look forward to getting shot by you soon!!

 

Mr Merry, I completely agree, it's surprising how a potentially hostile situation can be resolved by talking with the other person, I've had a guy (unarmed) try to threaten me into dropping my gun from hiding, thing was I saw him go in there.  He did it all over text chat, don't trust those typers people!!  Where I've had rather tense conversations at an airfield that resulted in us parting ways peacefully.

Edited March 17, 2014 by Window Licker