Making guns a much more in-depth factor

[SFRGaming 718]

NOTICE: Upon searching for this topic, there were a few posts about this but no main topics, so I decided to make one.

 

As of right now, the only gun that has many different parts would be the M4A1. This makes having the SKS, Mosin, Blaze, or double-barrel shotgun far too easy.

 

My proposal is we take weapons and break them down into respectable parts. 
 

DISCLAIMER: Do not mistake in thinking I want weapons to spawn in different parts, just make the weapons more in depth. You will still find a M4A1 with every part, but you may have a few bad parts that need to be replaced to insure reliability and function.

 

This idea is to keep "New Spawns" from running to a base, grabbing a weapon, and instantly start KoSing every living person that comes by. The way this works is you have the current M4A1 that has a main body, Forearm, Buttstock, Rear Sight, and Magazine. While retaining those parts, break the main body down into (regarding this is a M4A1) Upper Receiver, Lower Receiver, Barrel, Gas system, and Bolt, along with the current Forearm, Buttstock, Rear Sight, and Magazine. These parts, if damaged or worse, can affect the gun in select different areas. These ares that are affected will be listed by the part below. Note that I could go into much more detail but this covers the whole of the many complex systems.

 

Examples for the parts:

 

LOWER RECEIVER- If damaged, affects trigger response and possibly gun maneuverability. 

 

UPPER RECEIVER- Affects Rounds Per Minute, Case Ejection, and Feeding. Failure to Eject the Casing can lead to gun jams.

 

GAS SYSTEM- Affects how the gun cycles the next round into the chamber, which can greatly affect full-auto capability. 

 

BOLT- Affects Recoil, Feed, and Case Ejection. Failure to Eject the Casing can lead to gun jams.

 

BARREL- Affects the round's accuracy, distance, speed, etc.. Has a huge affect on the weapons ability to maintain a tight grouping. Can cause the weapon to explode if damaged.

 

This can also be used for the Mosin and SKS.

 

Although, the SKS would consist of: Body, Receiver, Bolt, Barrel, and Gas System. The Mosin would consist of: Body, Receiver, Barrel, Bolt. The current shotgun: Barrel assembly and Body.

 

Some say this may be a bit much but all these factors can change the tide of a battle in extreme conditions. Why you ask? Say IRL your gas system fails. You'll have to manually load and fire each round in a single-shot fashion. Barrel is warped/twisted? VERY inaccurate shots if not an internal combustion leading to the gun being destroyed and possible injury to your player. Receiver dirty or damaged? Intensive jamming and feed issues. Receiver destroyed? Cannot load or fire rounds. And remember these are the most collective forms of the many complex groups in a gun. All play huge factors in functionality.

 

This can also lead the way into extensive customization of the weapon such as:

Remanufactured Receivers

Match/Heavy Barrels

Chromed/Light-Weight Bolts

Much, much more

 

Leave a comment on what you think and be sure to vote Yes if you want to see this in game. If I have made any mistakes (I'm only human) feel free to notify me in the comments.

 

- {SFR} Col. Shadow

Edited March 12, 2014 by Shadow134

[enforcer1975 1111]

If you want to do in parts you should also have to carry a gunsmithing workshop around incl. all the machines ( lathe, milling, drill, welding ) needed, a simple toolbox shouldn't suffice with all the complicated "stuff".

Edited March 11, 2014 by Enforcer

[cywehner1234 582]

I think its in depth enough. You can remove all the parts now at still have it be operational. It's pretty shitty though lol. This is too far.

[SFRGaming 718]

If you want to do in parts you should also have to carry a gunsmithing workshop around incl. all the machines ( lathe, milling, drill, welding ) needed, a simple toolbox shouldn't suffice with all the complicated "stuff".

I know, but we need to balance this out so it's not ultra realism. Since Dean has destructable weapon parts. I could see this only necessary. But I think having a multi-tool would be fine for the game. Making this require a whole gun smithing shop, would just introduce ultra-realism. And just for the record, you don't need a whole gun smithing shop to do this. The gas system may require somethign special but the barrel, Upper/Lower receiver, Bolt, etc can all be disassembled and reassembled in the field.

 

 

I think its in depth enough. You can remove all the parts now at still have it be operational. It's pretty shitty though lol. This is too far.

 

I think it's needed because they are systems that can fail and play as a huge turning point for you in the game. Like Dean said before, this game is not for everyone. There need to be MANY hardships in DayZ. At the moment, it is way too easy.

Edited March 11, 2014 by Shadow134

[Martmital 436]

I know, but we need to balance this out so it's not ultra realism. Since Dean has destructable weapon parts. I could see this only necessary. But I think having a multi-tool would be fine for the game. Making this require a whole gun smithing shop, would just introduce ultra-realism.

 

it was sarcasm bro...

[SFRGaming 718]

it was sarcasm bro...

I'd rather people comment with serious inquiries, rather than senseless sarcasm.

[cywehner1234 582]

I'd rather people comment with serious inquiries, rather than senseless sarcasm.

But what's the point? Parts arent just going to be missing from weapons. And do they spawn seperately? Are they removed? What's to prevent massive trolling on all weapons? 

[enforcer1975 1111]

And one thing to keep it authentic non domestic gun parts should be from hard to rather almost impossible to find.

[TaiLeDFoX 29]

Every 2nd chop has an m4, they are way too easy to get. I think that the m4, mosin and f&x are customisable enough, time could rather be spent on the new guns or other important aspects such as the cooking system. At the end of the day the game isn't a "who has the coolest gun deathmatch", it's about survival.

[darksteeljorge 96]

kinnda too much

[irishroy 1347]

Hm.

I think, weapons should be found in 1 piece and in a good condition like pristine or worn.

 

But parts, like you discribed, should become damaged differently, like the barrel more than the receiver, maybe.

 

 

The Blaze 95 could consist of 2-3 parts, stock, barrel and under-barrel-thingy.

 

 

 

 

However.

I know:

too much realism can destroy the fun. and the system you discribed will make the gun-cleaning-sets pretty useless.

 

So, even though I like this idea, i gotta admit:

Too much realism.

Edited March 11, 2014 by irishroy

[Zjasuu 337]

Don't really care about this really, I think if people want a (excuse my language) fuckload of weapon customization and tuning there are games that allow this. I'm playing this game for the survival elements, not so much for the militarism. I'm not trying to be an asshole but seriously, there are some good games with a lot of weapon customization, here's one that's F2P:

 

http://www.loadout.com/

[SFRGaming 718]

But what's the point? Parts arent just going to be missing from weapons. And do they spawn seperately? Are they removed? What's to prevent massive trolling on all weapons? 

If you would have actually read the idea, I stated that the gun would be as a whole but possibly with damaged parts.

[akafugitive 244]

I would also like to see more components making up the firearms, the displayed condition of the firearm would be determined by lowest condition of primary external components.

  That way just like a vehicle you would need all the parts(and functioning), firearms may not spawn fully functional, or be straight forward on what internal components are missing, unless you know what you are looking for/at. This would cause you to seek out components or similar firearms to harvest component from, much like looking for tires, engine parts, etc after finding a vehicle. This creates another area of knowledge being key, knowing that a firing pin is needed to make a firearm work will serve as an advantage to those who come across a firearm missing one. Firearms can also be left behind disabled by removing key components such as the firing pin.

 

  Primary external components should act as containers(eg: receivers behave like flashlights with a non-displayed container system), and use the crafting system to create the associated firearm. Both the main components to the firearm would be required to create the firearm itself. Internal components will not be visible unless the weapon is stripped apart, can be done by right clicking on the weapon. Multiple weapon configurations would be allowed on certain platforms allowing for more customisations, military weapons would be more versatile but require more maintenance then simpler ones, for example:

Double barrel shotgun
1. Izh43  barrel/sawed-off barrel[4x1/2x1 inventory slots] (damage increases deviation)
2. Izh43 stock assembly/sawed-off stock assembly[4x1/2x1 inventory slots] (damage causes internal components to degrade faster)
   -.12g firing pin (damage prevents weapon from firing)
   -Dual trigger assembly (damage prevents weapon from firing)

 

Can Create:

Izh43[1x8] (Izh43 barrel + Izh43 stock assembly)

Izh43 Sawed-Off[1x4] (Izh43 sawed-off barrel + Izh43 sawed-off stock assembly)

Izh43 Sawed-Off barrel only[1x6]  (Izh43 sawed-off barrel + Izh43 stock assembly)

Izh43 Sawed-Off stock only[1x6] (Izh43 barrel + sawed-off Izh43 stock assembly)

 

Semi-auto handguns
1. 1911/CZ 75/ FNX/etc. slide[1x2 inventory slot] (damage causes internal components to degrade faster)
  -.45 un-threaded/.45 threaded/9mm un-threaded/9mm threaded barrel (damage increases deviation)
  -.45/9mm spring (damage increases chance to require a manual cycle after being discharged)

2. 1911/CZ 75/ FNX/etc. frame[1x2 inventory slot] (damage causes internal components to degrade faster)

  -.45/9mm firing pin (damage prevents weapon from firing)
  -pistol trigger assembly (damage prevents weapon from firing)

 

Can Create:

1911[2x2] (1911 slide + 1911 frame)

CZ 75[2x2] (CZ 75 slide + CZ 75 frame)

FNX[2x2] (FNX slide + FNX frame)

 

Attachments:

Pistol Flashlight (weapon specific)

.45 Suppressor (requires .45 threaded barrel to mount)

9mm Suppressor (requires 9mm threaded barrel to mount)

Holo sights (weapon specific)

Armalites
1. 14.5"/16"/20"/24" upper assembly[4x1/5x1/6x1/7x1 inventory slots] (damage causes internal components to degrade faster)

  -AR Gas tube (damage increases chance to require a manual cycle after being discharged)

  -AR bolt (damage increases jamming)
  -5.56 firing pin (damage prevents weapon from firing)
2. Semi/burst/auto lower reciever[3x1] (damage causes internal components to degrade faster)
  -AR trigger assembly (damage prevents weapon from firing)

 

Can Create:

AR 14.5"[2x5] (14.5" upper assembly + Semi lower receiver)

M4 Commando[2x5] (14.5" upper assembly + Burst lower receiver)

M4A1 Commando[2x5] (14.5" upper assembly + Auto lower receiver)

AR 16"[2x6] (16" upper assembly + Semi lower receiver)

M4[2x6] (16" upper assembly + Burst lower receiver)

M4A1[2x6] (16" upper assembly + Auto lower receiver)

AR 20"[2x7] (20" upper assembly + Semi lower receiver)

M16A4[2x7] (20" upper assembly + Burst lower receiver)

M16A3[2x7] (20" upper assembly + Auto lower receiver)

AR 24"[2x8] (24" upper assembly + Semi lower receiver)

M16A4 SPR[2x8] (24" upper assembly + Burst lower receiver)

M16A3 SPR[2x8] (24" upper assembly + Auto  lower receiver)

 

Attachments:

M4 Handguard/Magpul Handguard/RIS (requires 14.5" or 16" barrel length)

M16 Handguard/Magpul Handguard/RIS (requires 20" or 24" barrel length)

Weapon Flashlight (requires M4/M16 RIS, side mounted)

Vertical Grip (requires M4/M16 RIS, bottom mounted)

Surefire Grip (requires M4/M16 RIS, bottom mounted vert grip with built in flashlight)

AN/PEQ laser sight (requires M4/M16 RIS, top mounted)

Fixed/6-point/Magpul/CQB stock

Flash hider/SPR Muzzle break

5.56 QD Suppressor (requires flash hider)

5.56 SPR QD suppressor (requires SPR Muzzle break)

Carry handle

Flip up sight

Red dot sights

Holographic sights

Acog

High mount rifle scope

 

Firearm Maintenence

Change the firearm cleaning kit into a container like the first aid kit. Weapons will need to be stripped down and each part cleaned individually to maintain its performance. Firing pins would degrade faster then anything else. Keeping your firearms maintained will take time, care and knowledge of how they work. 

 

-Allow maintenance kits to hold any internal parts as spares

-Add "Cleaning rod" (used to restore condition of barrels)

-Add "Gun oil" (used to restore condition on trigger assemblies, bolts, firing pins, etc., has % value till empty)

-Add "File" (used to restore condition on slides, receivers, stock assemblies, etc.)

Edited March 11, 2014 by akafugitive

[Walking Wounded 199]

I am less bothered about new spawns killing me than I am about groups of banits who hord key locations and are immune to anything but another group hunting them. This idea does not level the field in any way.

[Duenan 226]

To a certain degree its a good idea but if it gets too in depth it becomes a burden. In reality a gun is going to outlive its user if even hardly taken care of. With weapons like the mosin, sks, ak-47 and 74 the amount of actual problems a person would run into would be slim to nil. Russian weapons were made to work. Its why the AK is so damn reliable. Other weapons like the mosin and sks have such a simple mechanism and built to certain tolerances that short of a tank running over them, they'll go bang every time just as they're supposed to.

 

Remember most of those weapons were designed to fire highly corrosive ammo and not hardly have to be cleaned at all.

 

I think you'd have more of a problem with the M4 than you would with the soviet bloc weapons making those guns more desireable

[akafugitive 244]

Don't really care about this really, I think if people want a (excuse my language) fuckload of weapon customization and tuning there are games that allow this. I'm playing this game for the survival elements, not so much for the militarism. I'm not trying to be an asshole but seriously, there are some good games with a lot of weapon customization, here's one that's F2P:

 

http://www.loadout.com/

 

To counter your argument I think a more in-depth system for the weapons in needed because this is a survival game.

 

Maintaining a firearm needs to be at the same level as maintaining your health, hunger/hydration, temperature, and vehicles. Otherwise firearms(a critical part of survival) will stand above all the other survival elements, this will reduce the challenge of survival across the board and destroy the atmosphere.

 

If all that was required to get a vehicle working was fuel they would be less exciting to have and you would be less cautious when using them, because it would be easy to replace for the most part. If firearms were at that level(specially high grade ones), Melee would have more value, lower end firearms would have more value and maintaining high-grade firearms would mean not being so trigger happy

Edited March 11, 2014 by akafugitive

[rickenbacker 190]

I like the idea of a more in-depth weapon system, but then I'm a bit of a gun nut.

 

My only complaint is that your "body" should probably be called the "stock". "frame" on handguns. 

[OrLoK 16186]

 

Id like more receiver like mechanics.

 

L

[SFRGaming 718]

I have been sitting on this suggestion for quite a while now, and the only reason I suggested it now is because before I thought it was too in depth and ultra realistic. But, I went back and watched one of Dean's livestreams and someone asked him about vehicle components and he stated he wanted it to be very in depth as far as car battery, spark plugs, etc. VERY small items rather than say, the engine as a whole. After hearing that, I thought to myself, if he's going to do it with cars, why not guns?

[akafugitive 244]

I have been sitting on this suggestion for quite a while now, and the only reason I suggested it now is because before I thought it was too in depth and ultra realistic. But, I went back and watched one of Dean's livestreams and someone asked him about vehicle components and he stated he wanted it to be very in depth as far as car battery, spark plugs, etc. VERY small items rather than say, the engine as a whole. After hearing that, I thought to myself, if he's going to do it with cars, why not guns?

 you and me both, you posting it inspired me to post mine

[Udysseus 2]

I would love to see this in place. Maybe if a gun gets shot in a certain part or is poorly maintained, you might have to find replacement parts. Also, this could add some variation to weapons such as give a shotgun a rifled barrel or a smooth barrel and give the M4 a M16 variant that the players could make if they had the correct parts on them. I still think guns should spawn as a whole weapon but also players could find parts and pieces to repair or make a firearm  if they had the right tools and maybe they might need a manual for each weapon to do this such a M4 booklet since not everyone knows how to put together a firearm from part.

[Duenan 226]

I think just like Deans idea with cars. Guns should spawn in varying states of usuability.

 

If this is the apocalypse then most of the milsurp weapons could have been exposed to varying levels of stress. You could have a M4 with a warped barrel or something that needs to be replaced. You can have effects for firing cheap corrosive ammo in guns that are more finicky. Where as you can end up with mechanical failure , damaged mags that fail to load or messed up springs. Failure to feed issues.

 

The trick is to due it without making it too burdensome.

 

I can see if they do end up making something like this. Everybody will use simpler weapons like the AKs milsurp soviet stuff and revolvers and dbl barrel shotguns and they have simpler mechanisms

[SFRGaming 718]

I think just like Deans idea with cars. Guns should spawn in varying states of usuability.

 

If this is the apocalypse then most of the milsurp weapons could have been exposed to varying levels of stress. You could have a M4 with a warped barrel or something that needs to be replaced. You can have effects for firing cheap corrosive ammo in guns that are more finicky. Where as you can end up with mechanical failure , damaged mags that fail to load or messed up springs. Failure to feed issues.

 

The trick is to due it without making it too burdensome.

 

I can see if they do end up making something like this. Everybody will use simpler weapons like the AKs milsurp soviet stuff and revolvers and dbl barrel shotguns and they have simpler mechanisms

Which is something that can be good. It's a fairly well played trade-off. You can use simple civi guns that don't require as much maintenance. OR you can use a military grade rifle and, while having potentially more damage and more versatility, it will require much more maintenance regarding the extra bells and whistles it has.

 

And I think having the weapons in several removable parts will allow us to field strip and clean the weapon. It'll be much better than the current system we have now (ex. Drag cleaning kit over to gun, click Clean Gun, gun has been cleaned. Time elapsed: 3.4 seconds )

Edited March 12, 2014 by Shadow134

[enforcer1975 1111]

...give a shotgun a rifled barrel or a smooth barrel...

 

That would be a slug gun...but would you really trade in the versatility of a shotgun for the ability to shoot slugs further?

 

You can use simple civi guns that don't require as much maintenance.

 

Why does a civi gun need less maintenance? If i had a M9 and an army guy had the exact same M9 wouldn't i need to clean mine the same way he does if we fire the same amount of rounds? Only because it's meant for civilian use doesn't make cleaner. There is a gun that runs even if you put ice cream in it or fry some bacon on the barrel... :lol: