Casuals and DayZ

[eleventhavenue 204]

Because whenever you say anything about KOS which doesn't follow a certain view, you are most certainly ´´butthurt´´ and ´´crybaby´´

Because obviously the only reason someone would dislike helicopters in DayZ would be that they aid in finding bases

Because everyone who does not want AS50's are obviously ´´casual´´ and want to make the game ´´easymode´´, because sniper rifles are ´´skillfull´´

 

And obviously if someone disagrees with my exact view of how the game should be made, I will tell them that they can make their own game, because that sounds like a constructive way of solving things.

If that doesn't work I will start calling people random insults.

[weedmasta 784]

The more time I spend reading these forums the more and more I find that the ideas being represented are from casuals that prefer to turn this into a co-op vs AI game. 

• Cries about KOS
• Wanting helicopters out of the game for fear of finding their bases
• Wanting less guns in the game (particularly military-grade sniper rifles)

 

These seem to be the main three and more-or-less the objection is based on (although the complainers will never actually admit) the fact that their game experience is too difficult. 

 

So in attempt to prevent the influx of casual gamers rallying to ruin what could be a great game I'm offering some pointers:

 

 

Suggestion for KOS criers - evaluate your surroundings, learn the map and know positions in which you're likely to be sniped from and act accordingly. Avoid high-traffic routes. Deal with every player with caution, scout out their equipment and behaviour patterns before you make a judgement and run up to them with direct on asking if they will be your buddy. 

 

Suggestion for those crying about Helis - you're most vulnerable when in open fields anyway, heli or not. Avoid them and you'll be fine. Campfires inside buildings = profit. The maps are HUGE even when you have a heli. pick your base position with helis in mind - don't make a base between starry and NWAF.

 

Ok so your first point is casual players but not the other two. I could almost say you are a casual player yourself just based on those 2 but you don't seem to be judging by the rest of your post. I don't want helicopters either to be honest and it has nothing to do with someone finding my base, which I care even less about. Nor do I want 50 .cal sniper rifles. 

 

TL;DR I don't want easy mode.

[Leo Balzac 190]

If there's a vast array of military hardware in the final version of DayZ, I hope they're scarce as hell. I would classify myself a casual player (meaning I don't dream about playing DayZ at night, don't play more than 2 hours a day and certainly don't begrudge others their chosen playstyle) but if you think littering the landscape with all kinds of military hardware is going to make this game more 'difficult' or 'authentic' then you're dreaming. Weapons that are high-powered (I.E. full auto/military style since many hunting rifles are high powered) should be a real prize to find and posses and makes the possessor really want to stay alive since it's so difficult to find.

[DarkwaveDomina 1099]

Wanting less guns in the game (particularly military-grade sniper rifles)

I actually agree with your post, but not this point. I think it's casuals who want lots of sniper rifles because it was the easiest way to kill people in the mod.

[Caboose187 (DayZ) 3036]

I actually agree with your post, but not this point. I think it's casuals who want lots of sniper rifles because it was the easiest way to kill people in the mod.

Snipes with NVG!!! You forgot about the NVG, you have failed us!!!!!!!

[Zalvager 51]

For a post-apocalyptic game people want helicopters ... really? I forgot: Everybody in the wasteland is helicopter pilot. Of course ALL characters know how to fly a helicopter.

 

Okay, I'll drop the sarcasm. If they were to add choppers, they should focus on making the controls 100% realistic. If you can't fly one IRL, you're likely to fail in the game as well. I don't want bambis or random bandits to fly around in helis. It would kill the game. 

 

Keep it post-apocalyptic. Somehow, the majority of Chernarus died out, including top-trained soldiers. So if they're gonna add helis, the vast majority should be wrecks 

Edited March 5, 2014 by Zalvager

[Guest]

In all seriousness though, how many of the people that want to see helicopters in the game, actually know how to fly one?

I'm going to guess very few to none...

No clue how easy/hard was the handling of helis in arma or the mod, but back in the dayz (almost 13 years) in operation flashpoint it was a pain in the ass flyin one of those choppers.

i'd like to c a chopper wich needs a huge ammount of time get it ready to fly, is a pain to maintenace and needs lotta skill (100+ gaminghours) to fly properly without crashing instant.

if we do it simulatorstyle, do it everywhere - anti-game ftw

[Nocturnal (DayZ) 85]

Less guns = less casual surely.

 

The game plays more like Battlefield than a hardcore survival simulator at the moment.

[OrLoK 16185]

Hello there

 

I vastly dislike the  lazy stereotyping of people.

 

All sorts of different folk want differing things. Lets NOT go down the "go back to COD" route.

 

Also, are there not already numerous threads on both these issues?

 

Rgds

 

LoK

[daisho 74]

The problem is to find a good way to discuss things so the game turns out to be fun to play for the self-claimed elitists and the casuals alike as both playing styles have their legit place in the game and especially this game has the chance to make it fitting for everyone.

 

Calling whoever is just trying to talk about KoS'ing or not sharing your opinion a crybaby just makes it impossible to discuss stuff in a way, that both sides could be satisfied with the result.

 

DayZ is despite the current lack of content a great game and could have a bright future for both elitists and casuals.

 

I've posted this in another thread already:

 

I'm playing FPS since the early days of Counter Strike and as much as I can enjoy a round of CoD and Battlefield I really don't like the instant-spawn-rambo-run-and-gun gameplay anymore with all these perks that make stuff even faster....

 

I totally love this game as it's so much different from the common shooters on the market and especially elitists need to adapt the slow paced gameplay that is about so much more than just killstreaks and a high kdr and I don't want DayZ to turn into anything like that.

As much as KoS has it's legit place in the game, this game has to offer SO much more and bringing more weapons, choppers and stuff like that into the game would just be the wrong approach imho.

Call me a "crybaby" for all I care but if you wanna run and gun and show off a high kdr, there's better games to play for you.

[Demoth 366]

As an avid KOSer, I also think helis would not be the best choice, nor do I think we need a BF4-styled arsenal to have to choose from. But if it happens, it happens. I can be happy either way. I'm certainly not going to say that including them or not including them is going to "ruin the game". What ruins it, is the incessant whining by those casuals.

I played vanilla WoW back in the day, and quit after wrath, because I couldn't take the ezmode anymore. There was no longer any accounting for skill; it was all dev-inspired ezmode for the masses,get em leveled capped as soon as possible so they can get their ghetto epics. Dont want to see this one dumbed down like that one was. Keep it hard, keep it painful.

You lost me at implying vanilla WoW wasn't casual EZ mode.

If you had mentioned Ultime Online, Lineage II or Final Fantasy XI, it might have given you credibility as king nerd hardcore.

[mssing 34]

Even veterans don't want to see a AS50. Like in the mod, there will no way to have nice fights at the NWAF anymore ;>

so ..there are dayz alpha veterans ^^

[McGarnagle 94]

Hello there

 

I vastly dislike the  lazy stereotyping of people.

 

All sorts of different folk want differing things. Lets NOT go down the "go back to COD" route.

 

Also, are there not already numerous threads on both these issues?

 

Rgds

 

LoK

 

 

How many of threads were actual discussions that weren't hijacked into arguments about KoS? Keeping down redundant posts is fine, and forums just wouldn't work without moderators to keep them clean, but at a certain point, people want to "discuss" things in this "discussion" forum.

 

I appreciate the policing of the ad hominems. That part I definitely agree with, even if I partake in it myself.

[OrLoK 16185]

How many of threads were actual discussions that weren't hijacked into arguments about KoS? Keeping down redundant posts is fine, and forums just wouldn't work without moderators to keep them clean, but at a certain point, people want to "discuss" things in this "discussion" forum.

 

I appreciate the policing of the ad hominems. That part I definitely agree with, even if I partake in it myself.

Hullo there

 

I left the thread open, as I too, want folk to discuss stuff, but  we have had threads on these subjects before, so its nice to remind folk there is that search button.

 

I *slap* with one hand and *stroke* with the other, such is my way.

 

Rgds

 

LoK

[oregonized 673]

The more time I spend reading these forums the more and more I find that the ideas being represented are from casuals that prefer to turn this into a co-op vs AI game. 

• Cries about KOS
• Wanting helicopters out of the game for fear of finding their bases
• Wanting less guns in the game (particularly military-grade sniper rifles)

 

These seem to be the main three and more-or-less the objection is based on (although the complainers will never actually admit) the fact that their game experience is too difficult. 

 

So in attempt to prevent the influx of casual gamers rallying to ruin what could be a great game I'm offering some pointers:

 

 

Suggestion for KOS criers - evaluate your surroundings, learn the map and know positions in which you're likely to be sniped from and act accordingly. Avoid high-traffic routes. Deal with every player with caution, scout out their equipment and behaviour patterns before you make a judgement and run up to them with direct on asking if they will be your buddy. 

 

Suggestion for those crying about Helis - you're most vulnerable when in open fields anyway, heli or not. Avoid them and you'll be fine. Campfires inside buildings = profit. The maps are HUGE even when you have a heli. pick your base position with helis in mind - don't make a base between starry and NWAF.

Everything you posted is your opinion and here is mine.

 

• People who complain about the KOS players are usually new players who don't understand the game yet and being a new player doesn't make you a casual.  The other people who complain about KOS are the ones who understand that the game shouldn't be all about server hopping until you are a geared out beast and preying on fresh spawns at the coast.

 

• Not wanting helicopters has little to do with finding bases and such but more about trivializing everything by allowing travel across the entire map in 2 minutes and making the map feel a lot smaller than it actually is.

 

• Those who want less military grade firearms just want more realism because in a zombie apocalypse situation I highly doubt you would be finding all sorts of firearms and ammunition that were still in usable condition.

[WizardofPug 6]

I am a casual player and very new to this kind of game in general. I don't mind kos at all. I've been killed many many times, have yet to confirm a kill of my own, and don't mind it one bit. I would love helis in the game. I'll never commit enough game time to take part in one, but I would love to hear it coming and feel the fear creep up in me. Sprint for the trees! I don't care about anymore sniper rifles though. There are enough guns now to kill me up close or from the side of a mountain.

[weedmasta 784]

Hullo there

 

I left the thread open, as I too, want folk to discuss stuff, but  we have had threads on these subjects before, so its nice to remind folk there is that search button.

 

I *slap* with one hand and *stroke* with the other, such is my way.

 

Rgds

 

LoK

 

What do we have to do for these free slaps and strokes  :wub: 

[shagohad 124]

why would you want to remove Helicopters?

 

I just don't understand why people want to take away from some of the great and simple aspects of the mod. 

 

The only issue with the helicopter was a balance one, the balancing being

 

1. too easy to fuel

2. small arms innefective

3. armed with reloading LMG's (fundamentally broken)

4. parts easy to farm

 

All of those issues could be easily fixed. Or you could remove helicopters and lose that feeling of stress when you hear the distant thrum of an approaching helicopter, the tense rush to repair one and the ensuing ambushes. The ambushes around refueling points, the coastal pick ups and scouting. 

 

Honestly use your imagination, don't ask for the removal of a great piece of dynamic game-play just so you can have your ridiculous tent base with no cover on top of a hill in the North somewhere. 

[eleventhavenue 204]

Well to be fair, we're not asking for the removal of something, just the non-addition of something.

And what's the problem of a ´´ridicilous´´ tent base on the top of a hill in the north? I would say that a lack of helicopters even make it harder to make ridicilous bases, because all bases will have to be accessible by foot.

With helis I could make a base with no cover on an inaccessible hill in the North somewhere, which is worse.

[Erikp3 53]

Helis make the game snowball far too hard for the people who have them, that's the problem. Unless they're easy to shoot down, its enables people who alreadt have everything to zip to any point on the map and grab gear to hoard / replace.

DayZ needs to maintain a balance between time committment rewards vs. skill rewards.

Having a large group with near infinite resources that can fast react to any spot on the map in 30 seconds will end up causing a power monopoly that will be fun for people in that group and no one else.

There were groups in the mod that apparently took everything once they had the helicopter and left everyone with the option of being SOL or switching servers.

I personally love the idea of a hostile faction possibly having a ton of power over me. The world is not balanced why the hell does the game constantly need to be? It would be really neat to run out and try to find a gun with the express intent of shooting at a helicopter. Then having to hide while a bunch of armed guys chased me down. It sounds like an unfair power balance could create some really intense gameplay and I personally think people want the game to be too damn easy. This game should be very punishing everytime you do anything stupid. Just walking on the main roads is dangerous and it should stay that way. High powered weapons should be rare but should still be there. I don't want to walk around without any fear. I play this game for the adrenaline each time you talk to a person while really immersed. If everything were so damn easy that I wasn't ever scared there wouldn't be a point. This game would just turn into a walking around and house building game, not a survival horror simulation. This isn't minecraft. It's Day Z.

Edited March 6, 2014 by Erikp3

[SaviorSixx 26]

I think what eventually will happen, and this hasn't been confirmed in any way, is that:

1) current map will get bigger, I.e. The northern areas.

2) more maps will be released.

First point because when vehicles are released the map will definitely feel smaller no matter what.

Second point I believe will fix some of what people don't want to see in the current map. Current map is largely rural and would ridiculous to find lots of military grade equipment and vehicles, however a different map, say city environment for example, would make more sense.

2sense

[hannibaldaplaya 1095]

Helicopters gave huge advantages to groups in the mod. It allowed massive loot hoarding, which was rather unnecessary on the group's part. It turned the game into a massive loot hoarding simulator when a group got a helicopter- The only thing left to do was fly around, explore, shoot other people, raid people's bases, and accumulate a ton of shit. This is similar to the current project in the Project Zomboid multiplayer;

 

When you give players the ability to take tons of shit, they will take tons of shit. Helicopters allow players to find that shit, and take that shit- even if they don't need it. Project Zomboid doesn't have loot respawns at all (you think DayZ is bad?) and stuff only respawns when the server is wiped and restarted, clean. This causes a rather tricky predicament.

 

On one hand, its realistic, on the other, players who learned about the server before others get a huge advantage, as they can hit the main places, stockpile all the food, and have an axe and a shotgun within 10 minutes. Other players will have trouble finding a plastic bag and a frying pan, because they joined later down the line. Right now, DayZ slightly has this problem, but the massive amount of servers and restarts allows loot to be rather plentiful if you find an untouched town.

 

Helicopters will expand this issue. Vehicles will be hoarded, food will be hoarded, guns will be hoarded, everything will be hoarded. Though the loot respawn will help, clearing out areas will be so much easier for groups and hiding stuff will be so much harder for normal players.

[Valadain 270]

I'm old. So I've been around for the casual/hardcore debate long enough to watch it generally evolve. Originally, the debate was over time-involvement, not game difficulty. The difference was between those who were willing to join a team of 30 or 40 other people and spend nights and weekends for months to get rewards, versus those who wanted to be able to log in and log out on a more casual schedule, but still have content to play.

 

Under this argument, DayZ is actually a casual game. You don't need to time-sink your life into it to get content out of it. Challenge was not at issue. Where challenge was concerned, the word "care bear" was used.

 

So, I'm a casual gamer. I play when I can and don't schedule my life around the game. DayZ is very friendly for this type of play. I do, however, love a challenge.

 

To the OP, I would love to have helicopters. I would also like them to be as realistic as possible to fly. I wouldn't be upset if you dang near needed to truly know how to fly a helicopter to pilot it. That would be fun to me. I like the signs in Russian. I like that I had to get a basic grasp of Cyrillic to navigate around. I wouldn't mind (though I know it isn't really in scope or possible) if repairing a car required actual car repair knowledge or if cleaning a gun required actually disassembling it.

 

In short. Bring on the guns and equipment, but also bring on the challenge. Bring on the difficulty. Make me learn new things.

[Demoth 366]

What do we have to do for these free slaps and strokes :wub:

I was thinking the same thing. Orlok's post sounded incredibly filthy!

[Sirwarriant12 94]

im more in favor of less military items, mosins and hunting rifles ect should be way more common than military grade weapons( i dont consider a mosin military grade when matched up with current era military weapons) and i sure as hell dont want people running around with thermals. Most people i come across are decked out in military fatigues and gear, when in reality it would be more people in civilian wear. Also i don't want heli's due to the fact that big groups and bandits will use them to control everything and or harass everyone. Vehicles i'm fine with, just not heli's.

Edited March 6, 2014 by Sirwarriant12