some kind of indication for people who kill for no apparent reason

[daisho 74]

Background:

First off: This ain't some kind of rage thread of any kind.

 

I'm pretty new to the game and it -despite the lack of current content- totally sucked me in already, I love the whole concept and as well as the "hardcore" setting what pushes the set of realism possible in a videogame to the max. I just love it.

 

That being said: there need to be some solution to the whole KoS'ing though.

 

As already mentioned I'm pretty new to the game but so far ended up dead on every occasion I've come across another player or a group of other players.

Either they kill me on sight or I get sniped w/o even seeing anyone...or they tell me they're friendly just to backstabb me the moment I turn around.

 

I get the whole survival thing what includes robbing and killing people, but there should be consequences for your actions.

I wouldn't mind to get robbed if I come across some bandits, but what's the point killing the person you robbed afterwards? There should be consequences if you decide to do so.

 

In a real world scenario people would for sure try to get guns fast but on the other hand most people would try and meet other people to team up as everyone would have come from different jobs and would have different abilities which would benefit the group. If someone of that group would go rampage he/ she would get banned and left alone what most likely would leave to that persons death.

At the moment it's like (from what I can tell) people going rampage have a lot of benefits and hardly disadvantages as there is no consequences at all.

 

I've tried to be a friendly soul and when I noticed that the game doesn't work for me like that I then tried to play as a loner in the woods and tried to stay out of trouble, what just got somewhat boring at some point as well as didn't turn out that well as I just got killed whenever I came across actual players.

 

The only person I came across that haven't killed me was a dude who just started playing and needed help because he didn't know how to stop his bleeding. I helped him fix his wounds and we ran around a bit together, having a chit chat what actually was much more fun than running alone...until we came across some bandits who -guess what- shot us on sight (we both were pretty much bambis and just running around with basic clothing and no weapons)

 

I now reached a point and I'm like "fuck it, I'll just KoS too whenever I see another player, no matter what their intentions might be" but

a ) I don't want to act like that

b ) if everyone runs around like that you don't actually need to play a game like DayZ as the mission then would be "kill everything on sight" just like in any other game no matter if multiplayer or single player.

 

As said, I get the concept and if I would find myself in a situation that I need food or anything else and the only way to solve the problem is to rob another player, I'd do so myself but if not really needed, I wouldn't kill that said person.

 

Speaking of a real world scenario:

If you'd happen to find yourself in a situation like the given setting and would come across another human being you could most likely tell if that person is to be trusted or not, of course you always could be wrong but the chances are high that you could judge the situation from their behaviour, facial expression, gestics, age, general way of speaking/ acting/ behaving (and much more, you get the concept). ...Same goes for observing a city and the people in it, you most likely could judge from the behaviour they have and how they interact with each other if they're  a bunch of bandits or just survivours who try to get along and you might team up with a bit...but: we don't have these options in DayZ and this would be hard to get implemented.

 

I guess there's quite some people playing this game who KoS just for the reason to not get KoS'ed themselves and in my honest opionion this game has SO MUCH more to offer than just shooting everyone on sight, even if this has it's legit place in the game, people should be able to do it and it would be boring without this kind of action, but as said: there should be concequences and there should be any options for people to actually being able to judge a certain situation/ player better.

 

updated suggestion:

I now realize that some indicator on the head definitely is the wrong approach, but the idea ´(posted by Alcon) of someone literally having blood on his hands (cloths) after some hostile encounter with another human being (not zombies, given the fact they are dead run around with massive rotten wounds already and most likely wouldn't have any blood left in their body) would be a good start.

Make this blood drenched clothing permanent, but add something like soap and washing boards (also could get used for cleaning bandages if you don't have desinfect spray before applying them so you don't get infections) so people can clean up their stuff if they don't have the chance to change their clothing...

It would people take X slots in their inventory + would have little (!) impact on the equipments quality status and to clean it up they either would have to go to some pond or use their water for it (concequences).

Further, if you find someone who got clothing drenched with blood and/ or is actually carrying around soap and washing board or is cleaning up his clothing in a pond you still can't be sure but odds are high he is a bandit looking for some trouble....or a hero helping someone out or just a "neutral" who had to defend himself.

 

/edit: typos

/edit: suggestion updated

Edited March 4, 2014 by daisho

[Duenan 226]

ANOTHER KOS thread

 

 

srsly...

 

graveyard plz

[Inception. 9443]

There is no solution to the Kill-on-Sight 'issue'. And how exactly would this indicator differentiate between whether or not a user has killed for no apparent reason?

Edited March 2, 2014 by Inception.

[Guest]

.

Edited September 13, 2022 by Guest

[daisho 74]

There is no solution to the Kill-on-Sight 'issue'. And how exactly would this indicator differentiate between whether or not a user has killed for no apparent reason?

 

* killing someone who has a gun in actual aiming mode = no indication as reason to defend yourself is given

* killing someone unarmed or with gun on hold = indication for 1hr and you're free for all

 

giving an indication for like 1 hour ingame time will not make that much of a difference but would at least be some kind of consequence.

 

I personally wanna trust people, maybe trade items with people (maybe I have stuff they need and they have stuff I need)...if you meet someone without this said indication they/ their gameplay still can be not to be trusted but IF they decide to kill you while you are unarmed they for like 1hr would have a much harder time surviving.

 

Especially trading would spice the game up but how would that ever be possible if people keep shooting each other just to not get shot themselves?

[Element47 2480]

pretty much every serial killer was known as a law-abiding member of the society until the discovery of his crimes. in life, there is no obvious indication about a persons motives and intentions. there is no reason we should have one in the game.

 

 

if you dont want to KoS, then dont. its easy.

[zerox024 21]

nope

[PJSleaze 111]

I knew a murderer once. Killed an old lady and then his girlfriend a few days later. Scary dude. But he looked normal. Nothing about him changed physically after he committed his crimes. It took the cops a few days to figure everything out and arrest him. If he'd had a magical marker, they'd have found him right away. The only way you knew something was up was if you talked to him for a while and you realized he thought he was God or something like that. The point is, you have no way of knowing in real life, not without observing or talking to them and realizing something is off. Why should you just "know" on sight that someone is a killer here? It sucks, I'm not a KOSer, but have been killed 3 times now by one. Way it goes. I just have get better at not being seen or assessing others.

[daisho 74]

if you dont want to KoS, then dont. its easy.

 

 

well...I don't play for that long but so far EVERY time I came across another player I got KoS'ed (and this is no exaggeration)...only solution to that is KoS myself so I'm more or less forced to, there is no real other option imho. Maybe it's because I run alone most times, situations might be different if you run as a pack and people would have to deal with a full group instead of just one player but none of my steam-friends actually plays the game and so far I wasn't able to make friends ingame. Maybe it's just been bad luck and/ or the servers I've played on.

 

I'm not even against the whole KoS'ing thing I'm just saying it should have at least little consequences (no gamebreaking ones, just a trigger to force people to make decisions,what imho would spice up the game A LOT more).

 

/edit: typos

Edited March 2, 2014 by daisho

[Atom Quark 437]

Summer of 2012 was it not?

Edited March 2, 2014 by AtomQuark

[Nicko2580 398]

That being said: there need to be some solution to the whole KoS'ing though.

No there doesn't. There doesn't need to be any arbitrary systems that punish/reward certain types of gameplay or behaviour. 

/thread.

[Alcon (DayZ) 2]

I think the whole indicator above their head is ridiculous, but what about blood stains? No exceptions, you kill somebody with a melee weapons then your clothes become blood stained. If you kill someone at range, no blood stain but if you loot the corpse you get blood on you. This would affect everyone. Even if you didn't kill a player, looting their body gets blood on you. This would then indicate if someone has been involved in any killing or fiddled with dead bodies, suggesting that they could be a murderer. If someone is clean then you have to judge whether they are friendly, or just haven't gotten their hands dirty yet, or if they changed clothes.

[daisho 74]

I think the whole indicator above their head is ridiculous, but what about blood stains? No exceptions, you kill somebody with a melee weapons then your clothes become blood stained. If you kill someone at range, no blood stain but if you loot the corpse you get blood on you. This would affect everyone. Even if you didn't kill a player, looting their body gets blood on you. This would then indicate if someone has been involved in any killing or fiddled with dead bodies, suggesting that they could be a murderer. If someone is clean then you have to judge whether they are friendly, or just haven't gotten their hands dirty yet, or if they changed clothes.

 

sounds like a good idea to me. As said: I totally love the harsh envirnment of this game but there should be consequences.

[Nicko2580 398]

I think the whole indicator above their head is ridiculous, but what about blood stains? No exceptions, you kill somebody with a melee weapons then your clothes become blood stained. If you kill someone at range, no blood stain but if you loot the corpse you get blood on you. This would affect everyone. Even if you didn't kill a player, looting their body gets blood on you. This would then indicate if someone has been involved in any killing or fiddled with dead bodies, suggesting that they could be a murderer. If someone is clean then you have to judge whether they are friendly, or just haven't gotten their hands dirty yet, or if they changed clothes.

I would be down with this but only if you also got blood from killing zombies and from hunting. No new information is being imparted. All you know is the player has been in combat at some point recently, whether with a player, zombies or just out hunting deer.

[cj14 189]

I would love an indicator of this kind, but sadly there's is no such way to do this. It is impossible to determine wether is KoS or not...sorry

[ld-airgrafix 403]

Labelling a player would take away from realism. The real way would be to remember their face and name, ofcourse this is impossible in a game that thousands of players play.

In a real life situations, people will kill one another for food and survival. Dayz people are killing for bragging rights, and nothing else.

[Kenny Kyle 138]

the actual content situation brings the KOS. you dont need others to survive. thats why they shoot.

they need your loot or they will protect thier loot. thats the point.

at the time we have a tactical shooter. and not a zombie survival game.

wait for the zombie content! ;)

[sausagekingofchicago 4711]

Just like forest fires, only you can prevent kill on sight.

[ld-airgrafix 403]

the actual content situation brings the KOS. you dont need others to survive. thats why they shoot.

they need your loot or they will protect thier loot. thats the point.

at the time we have a tactical shooter. and not a zombie survival game.

wait for the zombie content! ;)

Actually there is so much loot spawning that there is no need for killing at all, why, because so much bullets going on around.

Simple formula, make zombies more of a threat and lessen amount of bullets and bam I guarantee kos will be reduced by at least 50%

[Kenny Kyle 138]

Actually there is so much loot spawning that there is no need for killing at all, why, because so much bullets going on around.

Simple formula, make zombies more of a threat and lessen amount of bullets and bam I guarantee kos will be reduced by at least 50%

 

safetykill. you are some kind of chaos ;)

only 10% are kills for fun or the hunting kick.

its the "i cant read mind" situation.

very hard in elektro and on airfields.

[daisho 74]

Labelling a player would take away from realism. The real way would be to remember their face and name, ofcourse this is impossible in a game that thousands of players play.

In a real life situations, people will kill one another for food and survival. Dayz people are killing for bragging rights, and nothing else.

 

 

I'm up for any discussion but please don't try and come with "realism" as in a real life situation in a given setting most people would group up instead of running around lonewolfing.

Yes, people would try to survive, but as said their best way possible to survive would be to group up as no real life person has a master in medicine, hunting, military, crafting and engineering and is a pro athlete that on top needs no sleep at all and just warps to a parallel-universe when shit hits the fan or doesn't find any loot on a certain location.

 

I know a lot of you are afraid that any intervention in this matter would take away the thrill. I don't want something gamebreaking to get implemented or everyone running around carebearing riding rainbowspraypainted unicorns but I would like to see people having to deal with concequences.

Because realism is: actions have consequences.

Edited March 3, 2014 by daisho

[AP_Norris 1018]

I never shoot other players that haven't shot/ swung anything at me.

Continue to play friendly as I do and you will get better at hiding, recognising hostile behaviour that you should clear away from, how to come of friendly.

Every time you die you learn something, if you die more often than the people not headstrong enough to stay friendly then you will quickly surpass them in skill level.

You don't get better by not challenging yourself.

I'm not saying I'm a great player, but I'd like to think I'm much better at dayZ than any player that believes he has to KOS to have fun/ survive.

[daisho 74]

See, I'm far from saying that this game should turn into some kind of carebear online, if you ask me, it could become a tad harder even (less ammo, more zombies ...but it's alpha, time will tell how this turns out).

 

My only point is: that running around in endgame gear, being able to provide you with everything on your own and not having to be afraid of any consequences of any kind is nor hard, neither challenging.

 

Also: I'm a social player and I want to be able to interact with people, but despite my actual attitude gamewise I've reached a point that I'm like "fuck it, I shot first just so I don't lose gear to someone else" ...it's not that dramatic atm as you keep losing gear to bugs and glitches all the time, but I'm afraid if there wont be any fix of any kind, DayZ -at least at the beginning- will just turn into another shooter like CoD with people running around trying to act badass.

 

To repeat myself: in a RL situation you wouldn't waste ammo on someone you robbed, you would be forced to interact with people to either trade, get medical help or get some update on what's going on in the area or any other area you might plan heading to and let's be honest, even the most badass human being at some point would want to have any kind of social interaction with other humans, be it, just travelling together for some time or simply joining some group sitting around some fireplace, playing guitar, having some booze and exchange rumors and personal stories (unless you find a volleyball in some abandoned house, give him a name and have nice conversations with him).

 

Speaking of the rumors and people giving updates on area statuses:

maybe some areas could get flooded with zombies at some point but not on a regular pattern and not predictable, people would have to work together to clean the area from the zombies aka talk with each other, organize resistance, cooperate and kill them all, rather than shooting anyone you come across (and who might have critical information for you about you running into your certain death if you keep heading in this very direction)

 

I know a lot will change once more content is implemented but still: given the fact server hopping for looting, battle logging and 3rd party voice communication will (most likely) still exist and people always will find ways to get some kind of "unfair" advantage over other players it imho still would be too easy for those who decide to go rampage. You could harass a whole server (either alone or with a small squad) without any consequences as you just would hop to another "world" if the odds will turn against you...and this - imho -  is not challenging at all, nor has anything to do with realism.

 

updated suggestion:

I now realize that some indicator on the head definitely is the wrong approach, but the idea ´(posted by Alcon) of someone literally having blood on his hands (cloths) after some hostile encounter with another human being (not zombies, given the fact they are dead run around with massive rotten wounds already and most likely wouldn't have any blood left in their body) would be a good start.

Make this blood drenched clothing permanent, but add something like soap and washing boards (also could get used for cleaning bandages if you don't have desinfect spray before applying them so you don't get infections) so people can clean up their stuff if they don't have the chance to change their clothing...

It would people take X slots in their inventory + would have little (!) impact on the equipments quality status and to clean it up they either would have to go to some pond or use their water for it (concequences).

Further, if you find someone who got clothing drenched with blood and/ or is actually carrying around soap and washing board or is cleaning up his clothing in a pond you still can't be sure but odds are high he is a bandit looking for some trouble....or a hero helping someone out or just a "neutral" who had to defend himself.

 

/edit: typos and punctuation

Edited March 3, 2014 by daisho

[Kintaro (DayZ) 11]

 

 

updated suggestion:

 

Make this blood drenched clothing permanent, but add something like soap and washing boards (also could get used for cleaning bandages if you don't have desinfect spray before applying them so you don't get infections) so people can clean up their stuff if they don't have the chance to change their clothing...

It would people take X slots in their inventory + would have little (!) impact on the equipments quality status and to clean it up they either would have to go to some pond or use their water for it (concequences).

Further, if you find someone who got clothing drenched with blood and/ or is actually carrying around soap and washing board or is cleaning up his clothing in a pond you still can't be sure but odds are high he is a bandit looking for some trouble....or a hero helping someone out or just a "neutral" who had to defend himself.

 

/edit: typos and punctuation

 

This blood could also attract /respawn zombies a lot more than if you don't have any blood on you

Edited March 4, 2014 by Kintaro

[Lady Kyrah 1110]

I'm up for any discussion but please don't try and come with "realism" as in a real life situation in a given setting most people would group up instead of running around lonewolfing.

Yes, people would try to survive, but as said their best way possible to survive would be to group up as no real life person has a master in medicine, hunting, military, crafting and engineering and is a pro athlete that on top needs no sleep at all and just warps to a parallel-universe when shit hits the fan or doesn't find any loot on a certain location.

 

I know a lot of you are afraid that any intervention in this matter would take away the thrill. I don't want something gamebreaking to get implemented or everyone running around carebearing riding rainbowspraypainted unicorns but I would like to see people having to deal with concequences.

Because realism is: actions have consequences.

It wouldn't be as simple as you make it sound really, tension in groups would be great and it would take very little to get the group to lynch one of it's own. Families and friends are one thing, but people don't "like" being forced to work together with strangers in general. We built an entire society so everyone know his place and a payment system so we don't have to socialize and suck up more than what is strictly necessary.

 

Without money and a rigid society, think how your life would be if you had to be in your surgeon's "good favors" to have him agree to perform an operation on you. Think of how far you would degrade yourself to have your car repaired.

 

We do not necessarly have something of value to offer to others. And even if we do, others can just force you to offer it without counterpart.