The Anti-Game - Why DayZ will stay a crappy game

[res 373]

I think a lot of the problem is people see DayZ as a "game".

 

But really, DayZ isn't a game, it's what I like to call an "experience sandbox".

 

DayZ is entirely about the experiences you have within the sandbox, and the method it uses to create that sandbox (survival, zombies, etc) can illicit strong emotions from people, both good and bad.

 

Please.

 

DayZ is a game. Like any other game on the market where you kill, do what the game allows you to do, and turn off your computer with no consequences for you or anyone.

[Martmital 436]

Couldn't give a shit if the game is 'fundamentally flawed', I've had my £20 worth out of it already.  You pay more than that at the cinema so you can ignore the missus for 2 hours...  I've ignored her for over 170 hours so far.  Money well spent.

[antonioajc 500]

This thread will be buried, I guarantee it. Meanwhile:

[tommes 331]

And if there would be no vulnerable point you'd answered to more than the figure of speech I used...

I skipped most of what you wrote because it's irrelevant.

How about you read posting #1 again and find some reason why DayZ will not suck and share that epiphany instead of creating this ironyception of opinion? Other than that I'm not interested in interaction with you.

[res 373]

This thread will be buried, I guarantee it. Meanwhile:

 

Can only be closed by OP's request.

 

The strongest part of the flaming and insults has been already said, I don't see the reason why you all keep saying that.

Edited March 3, 2014 by skin_head_army

[LaughingJack (DayZ) 767]

Edit: Cleared of insults.

 

 

I skipped most of what you wrote because it's irrelevant.

...what a sentence. Do you even think before you write? How can you skip something, because it's irrelevant? How would you know? That's just paradox.

 

 

How about you read posting #1 again and find some reason why DayZ will not suck

 

I wrote the answer to this, I don't know, 5 times, here. Stop skipping parts of posts because they may hurt you and read them.

 

But I'll be so nice, since you already skipped this part probably as well, and write it again:

It's fine for me, that dayZ is no fun to you anymore.

It's fine for me, that it may never be fun to you anymore.

It's fine for me, that, like you put it so eloquently, "will suck" forever for you, because for you the core mechanic is flawed.

There is NO reason that I could give you to show you that you are wrong, because you clearly like the wrong things in this game (as you said before: basically only the firefights), so it may never be the right game for you, only, maybe, when private hives+private servers come, where the map is reduced to Cherno and everyone starts with a M4.

Additionally it is an OPINION: "DayZ is no fun to me anymore". That's perfectly fine to me as well. Why should I bother or try to convince you otherwise? I'm not some kind of moron that feels the need, that everyone has the same opinion as I do. I hope you, like everybody else, find something that is fun to you/him/her.

Once more, even if I trolled at this thread: I respect your opinion. But please respect that other ones may have their own that may differ from yours, and will always differ from yours.

 

 

instead of creating this ironyception of opinion

While it was ironic it was also the truth. These two things do not exclude one another. But maybe you didn't understand it. That's also fine.

 

 

 

With that being said, I'm out of this thread. If you actually read this time what I wrote, and have additional questions, feel free to PM me.

Edited March 3, 2014 by LaughingJack

[Jex 1104]

Yeah I haven't been having fun with it for almost 2 years now. The game is fine it's how you play it that makes it fun. Here's a hint... think of different objectives to set for yourself and play with a friend or 2. Also, take time to enjoy the map! It looks amazing :)

[JackinatorLP 21]

He IS right.

 

And I've played it for 137 hours.

 

I like DayZ more than the average gamer who plays it. 

 

The group I was playing with left to play freaking RUST, because DayZ was way too boring.

 

After playing alone for..15, maybe 20 hours, that's it for me.

 

I know everything about the game, I miss that feeling I got the first hours of not knowing where I even was.

 

The map is little. Yes, I said LITTLE. Once vehicles are implemented it'll take nothing to go from one side to another of the map, I've used vehicles in Chernarus+.

 

I hope one day I will come back, join a group and see I really better game. But I know that won't be true.

 

Humans know how to kill from the moment they are born. Teaming up is something that society and LAW teaches you.

 

There is no law in DayZ, and the devs are not willing to implement it.

You know a lot of things. You know how DayZ will look like in its final release state. You also know the devs problemsvery well. Why hasn't Rocket seen before that it makes actually no sense to develop the game further? Hurry, and tell him asap, so he doesn't waste his time entirely for nothing.

 

Why did you buy the Game? Didn't your wisdom allow to get informed about the game and what to expect from it? ;)

[JackinatorLP 21]

I'm pretty tired of people posting subjective opinions as if they are facts.  OP you are the worst culprit. 

I like how you summarize one of the worst and annoying problems on the forums. have my beanz!

[nuggit 246]

Too many points to reply to... This just isn't the game for you OP no need to spray personal opinions and bad experiences as facts.

 

Bad Investment, right? My $30 has never seen so much in return. 

 

 

:emptycan:  :emptycan:  :emptycan:  :emptycan:

[iBane 381]

The premise of the OP is flawed and therefore this thread is irrelevant.  

 

The premise of the OP works like this:

 

1) Games are supposed to be fun

2) Fun is achieved by "success," which the OP defines as "accomplishing your goals" 

3) But because DayZ is hard and has a "very slim rate of success" it is not fun and cannot ever be fun

 

This seems logical and is if you accept the starting point rooted in the OP's definition of fun and the OP's assumptions about DayZ's ability to convey or allow for fun.  However, the definition of fun is "something that provides enjoyment or amusement."  There is no mention in this definition of anything related to achieving goals.  Fun is a completely dependent term.  Fun is entirely dependent on the participants and what gives them amusement or enjoyment.  

 

Secondly, DayZ has no explicit goals or objectives.  Therefore it's nonsensical to say the game's goals are unreasonable or that because the game's built-in objectives are too hard it isn't and cannot be fun.  

 

Even if we decide that, in reality, DayZ has one implicit goal, which is survival, what survival means is totally dependent on the participating players and their choices.  For some survival means to live in game for 200 hours and explore the entire map without getting killed.  For others survival means lasting long enough to get kitted out and then running to a big city to engage in typically short, but exciting PVP encounters.  These are both forms of survival, but are comprised of very different activities and goals.  If a player isn't having fun or success trying to accomplish the goals they themselves set, it's not really DayZ's fault.  

 

In the end DayZ is a survival sandbox.  If you're not having fun you've chosen the wrong play style or objectives.  Make better choices, adjust your tactics, find enjoyment in failed attempts, or move on and play something else.  The ability to have fun playing DayZ is much more dependent on us than the game.  Yes, we must overlook some "alpha shortcomings", but thousands of people are able to overlook these shortcomings and have fun.  If you cannot, this says more about you and how you're choosing to play than everybody else. 
 

**The OP admits all of this accidentally (proving my point for me) when he/she defines success as " achieving your goals."  Unwittingly the OP stumbled on to the flaw in his/her argument.  We the players set the goals, not the game.  

Edited March 3, 2014 by iBane

[MartinD (DayZ) 86]

The premise of the OP is flawed and therefore this thread is irrelevant.  

 

The premise of the OP works like this:

 

1) Games are supposed to be fun

2) Fun is achieved by "success," which the OP defines as "accomplishing your goals" 

3) But because DayZ is hard and has a "very slim rate of success" it is not fun and cannot ever be fun

 

This seems logical and is if you accept the starting point rooted in the OP's definition of fun and the OP's assumptions about DayZ's ability to convey or allow for fun.  However, the definition of fun is "something that provides enjoyment or amusement."  There is no mention in this definition of anything related to achieving goals.  Fun is a completely dependent term.  Fun is entirely dependent on the participants and what gives them amusement or enjoyment.  

 

Secondly, DayZ has no explicit goals or objectives.  Therefore it's nonsensical to say the game's goals are unreasonable or that because the game's built-in objectives are too hard it isn't and cannot be fun.  

 

Even if we decide that, in reality, DayZ has one implicit goal, which is survival, what survival means is totally dependent on the participating players and their choices.  For some survival means to live in game for 200 hours and explore the entire map without getting killed.  For others survival means lasting long enough to get kitted out and then running to a big city to engage in typically short, but exciting PVP encounters.  These are both forms of survival, but are comprised of very different activities and goals.  If a player isn't having fun or success trying to accomplish the goals they themselves set, it's not really DayZ's fault.  

 

In the end DayZ is a survival sandbox.  If you're not having fun you've chosen the wrong play style or objectives.  Make better choices, adjust your tactics, find enjoyment in failed attempts, or move on and play something else.  The ability to have fun playing DayZ is much more dependent on us than the game.  Yes, we must overlook some "alpha shortcomings", but thousands of people are able to overlook these shortcomings and have fun.  If you cannot, this says more about you and how you're choosing to play than everybody else. 

 

**The OP admits all of this accidentally (proving my point for me) when he/she defines success as " achieving your goals."  Unwittingly the OP stumbled on to the flaw in his/her argument.  We the players set the goals, not the game.  

I have to agree with you 100%. My goal is survival, If I'm alive regardless of how near death then I am having fun. Everyone plays the game their own way and for their own enjoyment.

[tommes 331]

How can you skip something, because it's irrelevant? How would you know? That's just paradox.

I've read into it and realized right at the beginning that reading on isn't worthwhile. Just like I realized that playing DayZ is a huge waste of time. Some people just need a little longer to come to conclusions.

 

I respect your opinion. But please respect that other ones may have their own that may differ from yours, and will always differ from yours.

I didn't touch anybody's opinion. How could I anyway? I was merely stating that DayZ is too much crossover of genres it can't be good in any compartment and won't be as a whole. You might enjoy the wide variety of menial tasks keeping you busy until there's a firefight, but I don't see a point to them. And I see no possible solution for a long long time. Zeds are shit if they aren't dumb but many and don't move like jerking spastics. Don't see that coming in the next 2 years. Maybe later. Then gameplay could shift more to the PvE side...if they find a solution to the core flaw of players being dicks because players are dicks because it's the only way they for them can have fun. One possible solution would be to drive away all the shooter guys. I'm off and I suggested to other shooter guys to follow my example because DayZ is not a good shooter game anyway. And it's a terrible coop game because of all the triggermaniacs. The concepts just don't mix well. That's a core flaw. It can't be fixed, only maybe avoided by enforcing according rules.

[m.cab 83]

OP is 100% right. Thats why people stopped playing the (vanilla-) mod after 300+ hours.

 

You reach a point where you have seen every item and every blade of grass in chernarus. That was the point where the complexity of the huge map and the game mechanics ended and people started switching over to mods like epoch and other stuff to get some "endgame" (in this case base building).

 

Thats why i feel sorry for you guys who play the alpha so many hours. You are taking away the immersion yourself. Once the game is complete you will already have experienced 80% of it but in a shitty state.

[dystopeon 46]

My 2 cents here. I think Boho just wanted a game that would bring the 'non hardcore' into the ARMA series. With DayZ they sold lots of ARMA2 but failed to get anyone interested in their milsim concept. Then as the money poured in, they became typically conservative and stopped Dean from making ANY radical changes (e.g. remove 3rd person) that would make the game too 'hardcore' and scare off potential ARMA sales. In doing so, they failed to win ARMA users and failed their own community. Its lose-lose, and with Dean not being compensated accordingly and with no go ahead from Boho for any change - seperation is the only choice. Money ruins things, especially great concepts. SA (and ARMA) is still very wishy-washy and tries to be all things to everyone - essentially 2 games. I mean, this company can't even make a solid viewing-perspective decision for their games, even when the choice is obvious. It should never have gone ahead with 3rd person for the SA in the first place. It speaks of the Boho's poor leadership, which continually butted heads with Dean. The game will go nowhere, much like the ingame experience.

[m.cab 83]

[...]

We the players set the goals, not the game.  

 

That is only true to a certain point. At some point you reach the boundaries of the game, its mechanics and its diversity. It all comes down to its complexity and variety and that is the Sandbox you are playing in and you are able to set your "goals" in. Once you have seen every grain of sand in your Sandbox it becomes boring to play in it.

 

Take "Pong" for example. A black and white screen. Two white clubs and a white dot. How many hours will you be able to play it until it becomes boring? Or better said, how many hours will you be able to set yourself goals without becoming boring?

[blissfulkunt 196]

The premise of the OP is flawed and therefore this thread is irrelevant.  

 

The premise of the OP works like this:

 

1) Games are supposed to be fun

2) Fun is achieved by "success," which the OP defines as "accomplishing your goals" 

3) But because DayZ is hard and has a "very slim rate of success" it is not fun and cannot ever be fun

 

This seems logical and is if you accept the starting point rooted in the OP's definition of fun and the OP's assumptions about DayZ's ability to convey or allow for fun.  However, the definition of fun is "something that provides enjoyment or amusement."  There is no mention in this definition of anything related to achieving goals.  Fun is a completely dependent term.  Fun is entirely dependent on the participants and what gives them amusement or enjoyment.  

 

Secondly, DayZ has no explicit goals or objectives.  Therefore it's nonsensical to say the game's goals are unreasonable or that because the game's built-in objectives are too hard it isn't and cannot be fun.  

 

Even if we decide that, in reality, DayZ has one implicit goal, which is survival, what survival means is totally dependent on the participating players and their choices.  For some survival means to live in game for 200 hours and explore the entire map without getting killed.  For others survival means lasting long enough to get kitted out and then running to a big city to engage in typically short, but exciting PVP encounters.  These are both forms of survival, but are comprised of very different activities and goals.  If a player isn't having fun or success trying to accomplish the goals they themselves set, it's not really DayZ's fault.  

 

In the end DayZ is a survival sandbox.  If you're not having fun you've chosen the wrong play style or objectives.  Make better choices, adjust your tactics, find enjoyment in failed attempts, or move on and play something else.  The ability to have fun playing DayZ is much more dependent on us than the game.  Yes, we must overlook some "alpha shortcomings", but thousands of people are able to overlook these shortcomings and have fun.  If you cannot, this says more about you and how you're choosing to play than everybody else. 

 

**The OP admits all of this accidentally (proving my point for me) when he/she defines success as " achieving your goals."  Unwittingly the OP stumbled on to the flaw in his/her argument.  We the players set the goals, not the game.  

So true.

 

That is only true to a certain point. At some point you reach the boundaries of the game, its mechanics and its diversity. It all comes down to its complexity and variety and that is the Sandbox you are playing in and you are able to set your "goals" in. Once you have seen every grain of sand in your Sandbox it becomes boring to play in it.

 

Take "Pong" for example. A black and white screen. Two white clubs and a white dot. How many hours will you be able to play it until it becomes boring? Or better said, how many hours will you be able to set yourself goals without becoming boring?

What in the fuck?

[iBane 381]

That is only true to a certain point. At some point you reach the boundaries of the game, its mechanics and its diversity. It all comes down to its complexity and variety and that is the Sandbox you are playing in and you are able to set your "goals" in. Once you have seen every grain of sand in your Sandbox it becomes boring to play in it.

 

Take "Pong" for example. A black and white screen. Two white clubs and a white dot. How many hours will you be able to play it until it becomes boring? Or better said, how many hours will you be able to set yourself goals without becoming boring?

 

That's fine and to a certain degree true, but this isn't the argument the OP made at all.  My response was specifically related to his/her argument.  

That being said yes, of course the game has boundaries of what is possible and what isn't...some the result of intentional programming, some the result of the game engine, etc.  Every game has limitations and a lifecycle.  These realities do not presuppose the game isn't worth playing and is a complete waste of time, which is basically what the OP claimed.  

Edited March 3, 2014 by iBane

[tommes 331]

Yeah I haven't been having fun with it for almost 2 years now. The game is fine it's how you play it that makes it fun. Here's a hint... think of different objectives to set for yourself and play with a friend or 2. Also, take time to enjoy the map! It looks amazing :)

Well, what are you going to do with your friends? Kit yourself and then find someone to shoot. Or you get found by other guys and you have to shoot them for some reason. Sure you can avoid contact easily...but to what point? Makes no sense in a multiplayer game. Either way you end up hostile encounters with like 99% of the playerbase outside your self assembled community. Everything else is just something to keep you distracted until you reach that point again.

So for every single thing you can do in DayZ there's a better alternative. Even...or especially for watching landscape. Go the fuck outside, dude!

[blissfulkunt 196]

Well, what are you going to do with your friends? Kit yourself and then find someone to shoot. Or you get found by other guys and you have to shoot them for some reason. Sure you can avoid contact easily...but to what point? Makes no sense in a multiplayer game. Either way you end up hostile encounters with like 99% of the playerbase outside your self assembled community. Everything else is just something to keep you distracted until you reach that point again.

So for every single thing you can do in DayZ there's a better alternative. Even...or especially for watching landscape. Go the fuck outside, dude!

How about thats exactly what you should be doing?

 

Going the fuck outside and get off the forums.

[tornsage 2]

I'm new to Dayz and having a blast. Your reasons for this game being "flawed" hit on games that offer "goals" and other so-called advantages that you are better suited to...like world of warcraft or it's 1000 clones where if you "goal-play" for 1000's of hours to get the biggest sword only to have the game re-written and you lose ALL THAT STUFF ORIENTED TO YOUR GOALS AND START ALL OVER AGAIN.

 

TO me, being able to lose it all at any time is the BEST PART OF THE GAME!

 

I have never been as stimulated or excited as I have been by just 10 hours in this game and I'm still a total noob.

 

Games are loved and games are hated and it's all subjective.

 

Good luck.

[tommes 331]

Take "Pong" for example. A black and white screen. Two white clubs and a white dot. How many hours will you be able to play it until it becomes boring? Or better said, how many hours will you be able to set yourself goals without becoming boring?

If the core loop of the game would be fun you wouldn't have to make up stuff to enjoy it. Example: Chess. You don't need a story to have fun playing it. Or back in the day Counterstrike. Played that for years and it never got really boring even though gameplay is very limited. You only need more and more of stuff if the core loop ain't fun. Look up the term "core loop"! It's a big thing in game design.

The core loop of DayZ is flawed, because it takes too long for too little reward. At least for many players who then in return create the KoS problematic which then breaks the first loop (gearing up) of others. So players piss of other players by the very core mechanics of the game. That's the flaw.

People still believe there's a way out of that by adding more to the first loop...but it will only prolong that at best while others will make it their mission to break that loop into small pieces just as they did back then, do now and will do as long as they enjoy shooting others.

[Demoth 366]

This game fails in it's core objectives; realistic survival, post-apocalyptic player interaction since it's multiplayer, and immersion.

And players IGNORE this while putting cheap and dumb excuses like "It's alpha".

Realistic survival? Let me put a bullet through your arm and let's see if you're still able to wield that M4 after only bandaging yourself.

Realistic post-apocalyptic player interaction? What Slyguy65 said. You're safely sitting your ass in a comfortable chair behind a screen.

Immersion? Oh yeah, so much immersion when you speak to the body of a grown man and a little 13 year old kid speaks through his body.

Alpha isn't going to fix that ^.

What fails is your desire to care about your character.

When I'm not playing Cherno sniper YOLO-swag don't-give-a-shit thrill seeker, I play cautiously. I get nervous, I don't run punch people with guns, and if I can't run I try to negotiate for my life (if held up).

If you need to game to magically force you to care about your in game toon, you're lacking imagination. If the fact other people are playing like maniacs willing to die is ruining your immersion, you lack imagination.

This is a sandbox. Play in it and make your own story. If you can't handle that then go back to whatever on-rails MMO or FPS you get more enjoyment out of.

[tommes 331]

I'm new to Dayz and having a blast. Your reasons for this game being "flawed" hit on games that offer "goals" and other so-called advantages that you are better suited to...like world of warcraft or it's 1000 clones where if you "goal-play" for 1000's of hours to get the biggest sword only to have the game re-written and you lose ALL THAT STUFF ORIENTED TO YOUR GOALS AND START ALL OVER AGAIN.

 

TO me, being able to lose it all at any time is the BEST PART OF THE GAME!

 

I have never been as stimulated or excited as I have been by just 10 hours in this game and I'm still a total noob.

 

Games are loved and games are hated and it's all subjective.

 

Good luck.

Yeah, DayZ has it's charme in the beginning. Enjoy it as long as it lasts.

[tommes 331]

What fails is your desire to care about your character.

When I'm not playing Cherno sniper YOLO-swag don't-give-a-shit thrill seeker, I play cautiously. I get nervous, I don't run punch people with guns, and if I can't run I try to negotiate for my life (if held up).

If you need to game to magically force you to care about your in game toon, you're lacking imagination. If the fact other people are playing like maniacs willing to die is ruining your immersion, you lack imagination.

This is a sandbox. Play in it and make your own story. If you can't handle that then go back to whatever on-rails MMO or FPS you get more enjoyment out of.

Sounds like you need some LSD to be able to enjoy that game.