Is there anything being planned that incentivizes not shooting on sight?

[Whyherro123 2283]

Really? You sick son of a bitch. Stop ego-masturbating and grow some goddamned empathy.

 

Why should I care about someone I dont know? if they cant stand being killed in a video game that it causes them to snap and kill themselves then it was only a matter of time be for they had one bad day and blew there brains out anyway.

Because most people have empathy towards their fellow human beings? I don't know, that seems like a good enough reason to me.

[Rudette 435]

Because most people have empathy towards their fellow human beings? I don't know, that seems like a good enough reason to me.

Please, don't be simple.

False. Most people are out for themselves. Empathy is the equivalent of face saving and posturing, the mask we put on that allows us to masquerade amongst the learned morals and standards of the tribe we are born into.  The internet should be proof enough of that, give people anonymity and they run rampant with it! Humans are monsters.

No silly systems please. Just provide more content and more multiplicative risks to manage. Ramp up the difficulty. Make the game challenging. Social dynamics will change accordingly.

Really though, this thread needs to die. Can I provide any sort of lovely distraction that will lead to that?

 

[over9000nukez 199]

There can be no discussion on this topic because it is an impossibility to implement. I dont care what game you are playing, where it is possible in *ANY* fashion to kill another player- there will always be players whose sole goal is to kill the other players. Period, the end. No amount of negative consequences directed at the killer, for killing another player, is going to prevent it from happening. I, for one, will kill you, even if it means that killing you results in my own immediate death. 

I. DONT. CARE.

 

If you want to run around the game and be all carebear hero save-the-world-from-bandits, I. DONT. CARE. I am going to hunt you down and kill you. And if I am lucky, I will catch you in the act of being all carebear, and kill you AND your "patient".

 

This is how I play. This is how I want to play. This is why I spent my money. This game is completely open for anyone to play any way they like. And for those of us who want to kill, there is *NOTHING* you will be able to do to stop us. NOTHING.

 

Are you daft? My upbringing has nothing at all to do with my personal outlook on the world. I have been around for a hell of a lot longer than most of the kids here, and have developed an outlook on life in general through decades of living it. 

 

Yeah, you wanna kill yourself? Go for it. Just had a dear friend do it last year as a matter of fact. Did it bother me? You bet it did. Does it still? Not so much. If some random fuckwit in a video game goes all emo and kills himself because I killed him in a video game, is it going to bother me? Not in the fucking least.

 

And yes, if I want to spend my time hunting you down and "ruining" your past several hours of gameplay, who are you to tell me that what I am doing is wrong? What gives you the right to detract from my own game experience, by telling me that what I do is not allowed, while AT THE SAME TIME encouraging a gameplay experience that YOU prefer which detracts from my own? Explain to me how that works? Explain to me how your experience in game is to be valued higher than my own, by promoting a method in which my gameplay is to be hampered by some in-game mechanic that simplifies your own? Why are you entitled to gameplay that is more in line with your own vision of the game when mine is to be frowned upon just because you don't like it?

 

I think maybe YOU are the one that has had something wrong with their upbringing with this air of entitlement you bring.

good reply, a lot of people don't do that.

 

I only had 3 comments to judge you by, and they say human judge you in the first few seconds, but anyhow.

 

its a sandbox game, you have free rain on what you do, a lot of people just run up to people and try to have a good time (running up and down the south and gathering some sort of hobo tribe (i did this a few days ago infact, it was pretty fun) but imagine you get really attached to some group, and some mofo runs up and mows you all down, all, say, 20 of you, that would touch a nerve, it did to me, and then they went off to say "they were heros stopping a group of evil cultist hobo's, and we said we were friendly, and said just go on yoru way and rebuild.

 

HOW??

 

you just devastated our group, and we're back to the few of us, and it caused chaos. some people think that's fun, ruining about 20 people's happy hour going down the southern streets of chernerus. Given this decision, would you push a newborn in front of a train to save 5  people in their 70s? its a tough decision, just like this, there's the problem with equivalent exchange, so say you kill about 10 good people by yourself, and you manage to do it unscratched, do you think your honestly worth 10 GOOD people HELPING others? or are you worth more running around and killing people no matter the circumstance, and I can give you a challenge, go to a town, somewhat in the south, doesn't have to be on the coast, and get about 5 player interactions, give them food and stuff, youd be surprised how rewarding it is to give. I was down the road of banditry once, and i only KoS when someone had a gun, now i don't KoS at all, no matter of weapon, backpack full of goodies, or what. Hell, if you want, kill a dude that's geared, and throw all the shit in the middle of some town, and let the fresh spawns get a nibble of your reward.your still doing an overall good to the world 1: however many people you help ratio.

[or'dinii 28]

I always enjoy posting this;

 

Online gaming = anonymity

Anonymity = A % of participants show their true colors, also known as 'douchebaggery' (with intent).

 

Naaahh, Homo Sapiens is NOT fully evolved -.-

[alleycat 135]

The problem with PVP frustration is this:

 

It can take a lot of time to get the best gear, a lot of time and running involved. And you can lose all of that instantly. Most players are aware of that. But the game is sort of misleading in a sense that implies it is a survival sim where banditry and carebearing are viable in equal measure (EVE for example has that, because it also has safeguards that add consequence to both ways of playing). But that is not the case in DAYZ, shooting on sight carries most advantages while hesitating to do it almost only carries disadvantages. And new players will hit this frustration wall a few times before they go "screw this Ill shoot on sight just to be safe".

 

Can we leave out the real world accusations of who is  sociopathic/empathic because how you play in this game is not something you can use to reflect on a person in real life. The game rules (which are 0% non existing) do not have any safeguards against extreme shoot on sight behaviour. Expecting to get a friendly encounter is as probable as expecting someone on the other team in CSS not shooting you on sight

[rapier17 48]

I can give you a challenge, go to a town, somewhat in the south, doesn't have to be on the coast, and get about 5 player interactions, give them food and stuff, youd be surprised how rewarding it is to give.

I spent over an hour doing this on Sunday. Had a Hunters Pack with 6 pristine cans of food in. I met three new spawns and opened up a pristine tin with my tin opener and left it on the road each time before continuing my patrol (was taking a leisurely Sunday stroll in the sun). I enjoyed it. Until a newspawn kept trying to fist fight me, so I shot him in self-defence (I had my M4 out when he attacked me and I panicked and opened fire) - he returned and attacked me again so I told him several times to clear off. When he wouldn't, I drew my .45 and nailed him - I'm happy to help people out but when someone is harassing me like that I will put an end to it. Then someone took a shot at me so I legged it - must have seen me nail the guy and thought I was killing off newspawns. Rather put a damper on my time. Still I'll probably head inland, grab more tins of food and return to the south to hand out more food.

Edited February 17, 2014 by rapier17

[Martmital 436]

You can tie a KoSers arm behind his back and blindfold him with as many game mechanics as you like.  He's still gonna shoot at you.  If any thing a sanity/humanity meter would impede more 'honest' players than it would help.

[HazZarD87 166]

The amount of QQ over ppl that wanna force carebear play on everyone else is staggering... A lack of empathy for killing someone in a VIDEOGAME? Oh give me a break xD

[over9000nukez 199]

I spent over an hour doing this on Sunday. Had a Hunters Pack with 6 pristine cans of food in. I met three new spawns and opened up a pristine tin with my tin opener and left it on the road each time before continuing my patrol (was taking a leisurely Sunday stroll in the sun). I enjoyed it. Until a newspawn kept trying to fist fight me, so I shot him in self-defence (I had my M4 out when he attacked me and I panicked and opened fire) - he returned and attacked me again so I told him several times to clear off. When he wouldn't, I drew my .45 and nailed him - I'm happy to help people out but when someone is harassing me like that I will put an end to it. Then someone took a shot at me so I legged it - must have seen me nail the guy and thought I was killing off newspawns. Rather put a damper on my time. Still I'll probably head inland, grab more tins of food and return to the south to hand out more food.

ya after you play hero for a while you learn the ways of being a hero, you usually give people food, talk for like a minute, then say I gotta go, and if I see you follow me I might have to shoot you, then run back off into the woods, pop out somewhere else when you see a new spawn, give food, forest hideout again.

 

you could also leae little "carepackages" in protector cases and watch from a hill what the little newspawn does with it.

 

I also agree with your shooting the puncher, I do that too :p those are clearly those little KoSers wanting quick gear , then go off and KoS.

[over9000nukez 199]

The amount of QQ over ppl that wanna force carebear play on everyone else is staggering... A lack of empathy for killing someone in a VIDEOGAME? Oh give me a break xD

lack of empathy for killing someone in a videogame.

 

you could create a scenario where your in a museum full of awesome statues, and art that took people hours to make, say 5-10 hours to create, then you go in with a sludge hammer, and start smashing artwork, that's wrong with that? just rebuild it! and if you cry about it you should've been expecting it EVENTUALLY it would break.

[real meatshield 424]

good reply, a lot of people don't do that.

 

I only had 3 comments to judge you by, and they say human judge you in the first few seconds, but anyhow.

 

<snip>

First of all, thank you for seeing the intelligence in my reply. Most wont.

Secondly, judging me based on 3 comments is probably not a good thing- remember, this *is* the internet, and we all tend to postulate a great deal more in anonymity than we do in real life. You can never be sure what I am like in the real world, where I interact with real people, on a daily basis. I could, quite possibly, be a cop, or a priest, or a doctor, or a chef, or a lawyer, or a carpenter, or a businessman... the list is endless. One never really knows...

Now... that said, I am playing as a virtual character in a virtual world. I use my gaming as a means of escapism from the drudgery of adulthood. I want to live vicariously through my virtual avatar, and live in a fashion which I am not likely to be able to do in reality. Does the fact I want to wantonly kill random people in a video game mean that I am a sociopath in real life? Should my virtual avatar be stigmatized in the virtual world solely over the role I virtually play? This isn't KOTOR, where going to the dark side changed your appearance. This is an attempt at virtualizing the remnants of humanity, in one man's envisioning of a post-apocalyptic societal breakdown.

 

Where one person derives a virtual thrill from playing the "hero" role, there are equal numbers of players whose thrill comes from being the archetypical "bad guy". That's me. I play nice guy during the day in real life more than enough, and I want my escape. When I first started playing DayZ (never played the mod), I actually attempted to be the 'nice guy' and paid the price for it. 

 

 

Did I approach the situation badly? Yep, sure did. I know this now. Did it change my personal outlook on how this game is played by a lot of people? Damn right. Opened my eyes to the dark side of DayZ.

 

AND I EMBRACED IT.

 

This is how I see a post-apocalyptic society panning out. Walking Dead is a great show, but there will be more Governors than there will be Ricks. More Shanes and less Herschels. The only people I intend to help are those on my own crew.

[HazZarD87 166]

lack of empathy for killing someone in a videogame.

 

you could create a scenario where your in a museum full of awesome statues, and art that took people hours to make, say 5-10 hours to create, then you go in with a sludge hammer, and start smashing artwork, that's wrong with that? just rebuild it! and if you cry about it you should've been expecting it EVENTUALLY it would break.

If you actually mean that I'll go roll on the flour laughing my eyes out for a bit before I call the white coats for ya.

[or'dinii 28]

The amount of QQ over ppl that wanna force carebear play on everyone else is staggering... A lack of empathy for killing someone in a VIDEOGAME? Oh give me a break xD

 

I think the case is more like the intention for DayZ to be a survival game, while the only thing difficult to survive is other players. There are no real threat in-game besides humans controlling another player character...

 

Let's rename the game to ManZ for the time being ;)

[Martmital 436]

ya after you play hero for a while you learn the ways of being a hero, you usually give people food, talk for like a minute, then say I gotta go, and if I see you follow me I might have to shoot you, then run back off into the woods, pop out somewhere else when you see a new spawn, give food, forest hideout again.

 

you could also leae little "carepackages" in protector cases and watch from a hill what the little newspawn does with it.

 

I also agree with your shooting the puncher, I do that too :P those are clearly those little KoSers wanting quick gear , then go off and KoS.

 

 

Handing me some beans and talking shit to me for a minute does not a hero make, nor does leaving me some loot somewhere to find.  That's kinda the whole point of the game, all your doing is making it easier for me.  Put yourself in danger by coming to save my ass through a hail of bullets, with little to no regard for your own safety and only then will you be a hero, my son...

[over9000nukez 199]

First of all, thank you for seeing the intelligence in my reply. Most wont.

Secondly, judging me based on 3 comments is probably not a good thing- remember, this *is* the internet, and we all tend to postulate a great deal more in anonymity than we do in real life. You can never be sure what I am like in the real world, where I interact with real people, on a daily basis. I could, quite possibly, be a cop, or a priest, or a doctor, or a chef, or a lawyer, or a carpenter, or a businessman... the list is endless. One never really knows...

Now... that said, I am playing as a virtual character in a virtual world. I use my gaming as a means of escapism from the drudgery of adulthood. I want to live vicariously through my virtual avatar, and live in a fashion which I am not likely to be able to do in reality. Does the fact I want to wantonly kill random people in a video game mean that I am a sociopath in real life? Should my virtual avatar be stigmatized in the virtual world solely over the role I virtually play? This isn't KOTOR, where going to the dark side changed your appearance. This is an attempt at virtualizing the remnants of humanity, in one man's envisioning of a post-apocalyptic societal breakdown.

 

Where one person derives a virtual thrill from playing the "hero" role, there are equal numbers of players whose thrill comes from being the archetypical "bad guy". That's me. I play nice guy during the day in real life more than enough, and I want my escape. When I first started playing DayZ (never played the mod), I actually attempted to be the 'nice guy' and paid the price for it. 

 

 

Did I approach the situation badly? Yep, sure did. I know this now. Did it change my personal outlook on how this game is played by a lot of people? Damn right. Opened my eyes to the dark side of DayZ.

 

AND I EMBRACED IT.

 

This is how I see a post-apocalyptic society panning out. Walking Dead is a great show, but there will be more Governors than there will be Ricks. More Shanes and less Herschels. The only people I intend to help are those on my own crew.

I do play hero, but I love the evilness in how you said I EMBRACED IT! XD too good

 

it took me about 2-3 hero play through deaths to learn how you play hero correctly, you help, talk for a minute, then GTFO, and I know you probably know, you need some sniper cover while you doing this :p, probably a crew, a few ground people, a few eyes watching from above.

 

especially kamishovo, like in that vid, ive been in so many death matches in there its not funny.

[GoldenKade 73]

Sorry if this has already been said but i haven't read the whole thread as I stopped when childish name calling started.

 

Here's how I would attempt to 'fix' the KOS problem. I put it in 'marks' as I don’t think it really needs major fixing, in any end of the world apocalypse scenario people would kill other people however they would not do it scar free and that’s what I think should be added. Mental scars.

 

Anyone who kills people on sight is a psycho in the real world, no way to argue that, something has tipped them over the edge and they go round killing folks, killing people is very traumatic.

 

So add things to simulate that the character you are playing is a psycho, these should be things that confuse the person playing the character and should stay in line with the themes of the game ala Night of the living dead/ Walking dead/ Evil dead. Those being paranoia/suspicions/fearfulness/disloyalty.

 

This should manifest in a selection of ways in game from the first time you kill someone and then increase in effect the more players they have killed.

• Players see and hear things only on their screen. We have already have this in the form of the zombie bunny bug but I would want it powered up. Players should hear gunshots and other player generated sounds that don’t exist but should also see the avatars of other players they have killed, frequently. Have them run past them, or up to them in that classic edge of your vision movie style. The player should literally see the faces of the people he has killed in the past.

 

• In the real world when people develop a mental disorder they very often develop an addiction to something as a way to handle their new mental state. Any player that kills a player has a chance to develop an addiction as a way of coping with the trauma of killing someone. Maybe something looted from the dead body or just something random, but if the player does not have that item on them in pristine-worn condition (if an item) or in their system (if a food or drug) then they character will shake and twitch making aiming much harder (kind of like the heavy breathing/ tired state is now).  As an added bonus this then gives the player something to actually hunt down and loot rather than having ‘nothing’ to do.

 

• I am not sure how to work this one so it doesn’t seem forced, but paranoia and betrayal would be great. Im thinking those situations in movies where the leadre of a bunch of bandits/bad guys shoots his companion or a follower for no other reason than he in his mental state suddenly didn’t trust them. Something like if anyone passes in front of a killers reticule he may fire. It would then make it hard for groups of psychos to function together because of their mass paranoia. Although I don’t really like this implementation as it seems a little forced and totally removing control from a player isn’t really good but I just wanted to get the idea across.

 

• Im sure other people can come up with other thematic downsides to killing people.

There we go, people can still KOS, but now are ‘penalized’ in a very realistic way in game for doing so.

No, I'd rather non-KOS players to be incentivized instead of KOS players penalized.

[Martmital 436]

 

 

 

 

You deserved that...

[over9000nukez 199]

Handing me some beans and talking shit to me for a minute does not a hero make, nor does leaving me some loot somewhere to find.  That's kinda the whole point of the game, all your doing is making it easier for me.  Put yourself in danger by coming to save my ass through a hail of bullets, with little to no regard for your own safety and only then will you be a hero, my son...

well talking shit to you for a minute is usually a warning like "i heard gunshots in electro, I dunno if you want to go that way or not, might wanna head straight to an airfield with all the food I gave you, could easily make the journey"

 

an if giving stuff to people doesn't make you a hero is it killing bandits? ive done that plenty of times. clearing sniper hill, taking out people who are causing chaos in electro or something, take their weapons unload them,and leave food/backpack and all for a new spawn to get a quick pack up north,

[real meatshield 424]

^^You are right, I did.

[pillock 850]

It will never be possible to play a 'hero' unless they tie characters to a server.

 

Bandits need to be locked in, so you can track them, hunt them down, administer justice (not necessarily involving execution). If they can simply jump off into the ether of the server list, never to be seen again, anyone playing 'hero' is on a hiding to nothing.

 

I really don't think DayZ can ever be anything but a PvP tactical combat game unless your character is trapped in a single server to face the consequences of its actions - and by 'actions', I'm talking about the more menial survivalist actions and player player-interaction, as well as the combat, robbery and killing: none of it has consequences if you can jump into a different server. 

Edited February 17, 2014 by Pillock

[or'dinii 28]

Handing me some beans and talking shit to me for a minute does not a hero make, nor does leaving me some loot somewhere to find.  That's kinda the whole point of the game, all your doing is making it easier for me.  Put yourself in danger by coming to save my ass through a hail of bullets, with little to no regard for your own safety and only then will you be a hero, my son...

Does surviving zombies on broken gear, lousy food and contaminated water sound like the environment where you need to rescue someone through a hail of bullets? Who, if so, would be the shooters? The other survivors doing the only logical thing they can think of, getting rid of the only people with which you share an enemy? Or maybe you would need rescuing from a pack of AK-47 equipped zombies with a trained eye...

 

I have a hard time seeing why, in a zombie situation, I should be more concerned with being killed by a fellow human than being eaten by a turned one.

 

2 cents.

[Nocturnal (DayZ) 85]

Like many others, I played the mod extensively.

 

Vanilla, DayZero, Origins, Epoch etc. Played a lot of different versions - every one with varying amounts of content and varying degrees of meta 'anti bandit' mechanics.

 

And guess what? The majority of players kill on sight - for numerous reasons - in every single version of the mod. Alternative content helped occupy players with other things so there was seemingly less PVP, but it was still always the same demographic of players. This has always been DayZ.

 

If you're new to DayZ Standalone and you complain about KoS, you should have done your homework better. If you played the mod and still complain about KoS, you need a new game.

Edited February 17, 2014 by Nocturnal

[Furtherado 100]

lack of empathy for killing someone in a videogame.

 

you could create a scenario where your in a museum full of awesome statues, and art that took people hours to make, say 5-10 hours to create, then you go in with a sludge hammer, and start smashing artwork, that's wrong with that? just rebuild it! and if you cry about it you should've been expecting it EVENTUALLY it would break.

 

It`s not the same thing at all, in a videogame all you are doing is interacting with virtual pixels and gamecode, if you can`t see the difference between shooting someone in a videogame, no matter how hard they worked for their gear, and destroying ancient statues, you need to take a little break from gaming. 

[real meatshield 424]

 

I have a hard time seeing why, in a zombie situation, I should be more concerned with being killed by a fellow human than being eaten by a turned one.

 

 

Because the opponent who can THINK is a far deadlier adversary than the mindless one bent only on eating you.

[over9000nukez 199]

Furtherado, on 17 Feb 2014 - 2:15 PM, said:

It`s not the same thing at all, in a videogame all you are doing is interacting with virtual pixels and gamecode, if you can`t see the difference between shooting someone in a videogame, no matter how hard they worked for their gear, and destroying ancient statues, you need to take a little break from gaming. 

pst, I never said they were ancient.

 

and theres almost 0 difference between 5 hours working on a painting something, and having it torn to shreds, and 5 hours enjoying a video game and someone forcing to restart

Edited February 17, 2014 by over9000nukez