Is there anything being planned that incentivizes not shooting on sight?

[libertine 351]

I'm not one of these players, but I can FULLY advocate the mindset.

 

You are dead wrong on that point. The one where other games give better pvp.

 

CoD and BF and all it's kin DOES NOT give me the oppurtunity to completely ruin your day and invalidate everything you have "worked" so hard to get with just a single click or two...

 

and THAT is why DayZ pvp, and specifically KoS or CoD playstyle is so appealing to that specific type of audience.

You want to hurt people in real life? Maybe you should be banned from the game and forums for admitting that.

 

This is why we need bandit armbands or something. Little special people like you running around without a care in the world because your life experiences are so fucking tiny you have no way to empathize with others. This covers pretty much all young people and a lot of young people i've noticed play this game.

 

PVP isn't going anywhere and this being an early alpha release will make for tons of poeple already somewhat bored with the main content of the game when it is commercially released. It will probably get worse over time. But the PVP isn't the problem imo, its the lack of any meaning given to it, making it totally unrealistic or not believable.

Edited February 17, 2014 by Thane

[Jack Dant 158]

Ok, firstly, absolutely this encourages squads of bandits, it encourages squads of everyone. That's fine and that IS EXACTLY what I want to do. That's starting the blocks of society right there. A lot of the KOS crowd that seem to get by on griefing are not part of a group and are just wandering around solo killing anyone else rather than interacting. IF you have a group of guys who runs around deciding to try and kill everyone, fine, that's more plausible and indeed probably not significantly different from a large part of early human history.

Ok, then. We'll get that without the need for mental health mechanics. Vehicles and base building will almost certainly require teamwork. Increased zombie counts may encourage it too, depending on how they are implemented (hint: making every zed on the map converge on a gunshot encourages stealth, and lone wolves are stealthier).

 

I'd be very surprised if any of that ended the Elektro deathmatch, but that's just one place in the map.

[r3volution (DayZ) 19]

Ok, then. We'll get that without the need for mental health mechanics. Vehicles and base building will almost certainly require teamwork. Increased zombie counts may encourage it too, depending on how they are implemented (hint: making every zed on the map converge on a gunshot encourages stealth, and lone wolves are stealthier).

 

I'd be very surprised if any of that ended the Elektro deathmatch, but that's just one place in the map.

 

Vehicles and base building alone could accomplish some of the same effect. However that's the carrot. Psychological health system is the stick. Bear in mind that even the 'stick' won't actually STOP someone from wandering around killing everyone they encounter, nor is it meant to. I don't want to regulate behaviour in a game which is about choice. But if you're going to have freedom to choose what you do, you should also have the freedom to suffer the consequences of your choices. Given that this is embodied in the game in every other sense, hunger, thirst, injury etc, the lack of a psychological health system leaves it unbalanced.

 

So no, this won't stop the cities being a deathtrap, it won't stop bands of bandits roaming around. Nor will it stop some people from killing everything they see. But it will ensure that this takes place in a more plausible manner.

[DeatHTaX 1217]

So no, this won't stop the cities being a deathtrap, it won't stop bands of bandits roaming around. Nor will it stop some people from killing everything they see. But it will ensure that this takes place in a more plausible manner.

 

 

...so what's the point of implementing this system if it doesn't affect those things at all lol

[libertine 351]

I think you're a bit upset because I'm the kind of guy who kills you for whatever reason I want, and you can't handle that. 

 

And school bullies? kid this is a game lol. I'm sorry, but if you're day is RUINED from something someone does in a video game, that's just sad.

 

I'm a bandit/KoSr/whatever you wanna call it, and I in no way claim to be hardcore at all lol. I just do what I want and have fun while doing it. It is a sandbox game after all, and you can't do a damn thing about it :)

Rocket CAN do something about it. I suspect hackers DO do something about it to as i suspect half their justification for doing what they do is having their day ruined just like you mentioned.

 

Video games have come a long way since Pacman. They can be virtual reality experiences for those who choose to put themselves in the game that way. D&D players prove everyday you don't even need a screen to immerse yourself in another reality.

 

But it is just a game right? So why don't you post your physical address and photo I.D.? Do you really find it that hard to believe that peoples days are ruined after spending the amount of time people spend developing them? It is sad, but this is a sad world and people like Wheunis are contributing. You must still be living in the comfort of childhood i guess?

 

This would all be different if the game gave armbands out for murdering other players who aren't yet bandits. Then players being KOSed and having their day ruined can at least know they will be able to get back at another bandit PVP soon.

[Slugfoot1 16]

It's spelled sight not site. School's these days... :lol:

"School's these days..." what, exactly?

...Or is that a misplaced apostrophe I see? ^_^

[fundan@gmx.de 82]

(...)

This would all be different if the game gave armbands out for murdering other players who aren't yet bandits. Then players being KOSed and having their day ruined can at least know they will be able to get back at another bandit PVP soon.

 

Which one do you prefer? Star of David? Swastika? 3 black points?

[libertine 351]

Which one do you prefer? Star of David? Swastika? 3 black points?

On the armband? I prefer a medical cross, because that fits in with my realistic idea that makes sense out of the PVP. That gives negative humanity to people that murder others constantly. They become people promised sanctuary by the remaining military/gov structure if they in turn "cleanse" the lands of the remaining civilian population, which they firmly believe in the only chance of stopping the virus and saving humanity. The military has given the "bandits" armbands to identify themselves to each other so they don't kill one another and the medical cross is to lure survivors in and put them at ease making them easier to kill. This also takes the association with "evil" away from being a bandit since you are someone who believes they are saving humanity.

 

Makes fucking sense, instead of the dumbass pantsless Vietnam we have now.

[Carraig 23]

More zombies and make them near impossible to kill without a headshot. Why would someone risk killing another player without good reason and getting jumped by a load zed's that are only killable by head injury?

 

Maybe less guns/ammo en more melee types attack?

[libertine 351]

Hurt people IRL?

You have the worst kind of reading comprehension, EVER.

IRL i wouldnt even bother greeting a stranger, much less harm them. As for ingame, the result will ALWAYS be the same ---> Somebody's face in the dirt.

You said you like playing DayZ because its the only game where you can really ruin peoples day. Did you know people commit suicide for having their day ruined? Did you know there are 200,000 individual attempt in the US alone with 38,000 being successful. EACH YEAR?

 

It a big world out there isn't it young feller...  *pats Wheunis on head*

Edited February 17, 2014 by Thane

[whothehellishe 81]

Once they fix the zombies and the sounds i doupt anyone will open fire without a silencer before really thinking about it...only people with a deathwish or with shit loads of ammo.

[diznoid 12]

If "getting a straight answer" means announcing mechanics that directly punish people who shoot other players, then no.  People are KOSing right now because there isn't really anything else to do yet. What you need to realize is that when the environment becomes filled with things that make it an actual challenge to survive (like zombies, harsh weather, disease, etc), players will be drawn out of the "get geared up, kill other people gearing up" grind naturally; we will have to spend our time overcoming these new challenges instead.

Edited February 17, 2014 by diznoid

[Zannah 0]

fear the living fight the dead

Tougher zombies spawning away from spawning areas would be a good idea.

[Wheunis 228]

You said you like playing DayZ because its the only game where you can really ruin peoples day. Did you know people commit suicide for having their day ruined? Did you know there are 200,000 individual attempt in the US alone with 38,000 being successful. EACH YEAR?

 

It a big world out there isn't it young feller...  *pats Wheunis on head*

 

I don't care what some wanker does after I put his character in the dirt.

If someone's day really is ruined by getting killed in a videogame... then they are beyond useless anyway, and no amount of help will change that.

 

And those stats you throw at me... all that does is make me laugh.

81% of them are too useless to even succeed at killing themselves? Sounds like attention-seeking to me...

[Inception. 9443]

Locked temporarily for review. 
 

The attitude(s) for which some users express themselves towards others is unacceptable; fail to change your attitude and you will find yourself with a punishment, like some users have already.

Unlocked.

Edited February 17, 2014 by Inception.

[McGarnagle 94]

My job in this game is to evoke the most powerful emotions from a player as is humanly possible in a GAME.

Any emotion of any kind I evoke in ANYONE i ever deal with ingame, is a win.

 

I don't give a good god ---- how anyone plays their game, but people like this make me sad for the human race.

 

"Ooh, I drink your tears." Whatever, you friggin' dork. You certainly don't scare me, and don't build any more tension in my game than any other player, but if telling yourself this stuff makes you feel cool and special, have at it. People that break into houses certainly help sales at gun stores, but you wouldn't see the burglar trying to convince the owner that it's helpful as he's robbing him. Well, maybe if you were the burglar...

 

 

As to the OP: Obviously, deranged abuse victims aside, as they add more content to the game, the rate of KoS will drop as players will be spending more time building bases, making friends and alliances, and otherwise exploring the world of Chernarus. Boredom and overreaction are the leading causes of death in Chernarus, not try hards like this guy. Most people I've talked to outside of the airfields have been totally friendly. I certainly wouldn't trust any of them, but you don't have to trust someone to not murder them or be murdered by them.

 

Granted, I don't take any crap and have been known to waste a person for only replying with a middle-finger, but I would say it's more like a third of players will attempt some kind of betrayal, given the opportunity, and usually it's not a very skilled attempt.

 

I never want to say "I'm not having this problem ergo it must not exist," but it's kind of instinctive for me to assume that people claiming ridiculous statistics like 90% OF EVERYONE KoS ROKET PLZ are simply doing something, or more likely several things, horribly wrong.

 

Balota, on the other hand, is a sucker's bet and will remain so until vehicles and server-side storage become reliable, which should move most of the better equipped PvP seekers and clans out into the rest of the map. If you don't like being shot, GO NORTH. If that gets boring, and it almost certainly will eventually, go and RISK GETTING SHOT. At this stage of development, that really is all there is to it.

 

TL;DR quoted person is a tool. To the OP: 1.0 build will not have this problem to the point that (non-idiotic) bandits really will build tension. ALPHA! :p

[Ramalamadingdong 2]

Sorry if this has already been said but i haven't read the whole thread as I stopped when childish name calling started.

 

Here's how I would attempt to 'fix' the KOS problem. I put it in 'marks' as I don’t think it really needs major fixing, in any end of the world apocalypse scenario people would kill other people however they would not do it scar free and that’s what I think should be added. Mental scars.

 

Anyone who kills people on sight is a psycho in the real world, no way to argue that, something has tipped them over the edge and they go round killing folks, killing people is very traumatic.

 

So add things to simulate that the character you are playing is a psycho, these should be things that confuse the person playing the character and should stay in line with the themes of the game ala Night of the living dead/ Walking dead/ Evil dead. Those being paranoia/suspicions/fearfulness/disloyalty.

 

This should manifest in a selection of ways in game from the first time you kill someone and then increase in effect the more players they have killed.

• Players see and hear things only on their screen. We have already have this in the form of the zombie bunny bug but I would want it powered up. Players should hear gunshots and other player generated sounds that don’t exist but should also see the avatars of other players they have killed, frequently. Have them run past them, or up to them in that classic edge of your vision movie style. The player should literally see the faces of the people he has killed in the past.

 

• In the real world when people develop a mental disorder they very often develop an addiction to something as a way to handle their new mental state. Any player that kills a player has a chance to develop an addiction as a way of coping with the trauma of killing someone. Maybe something looted from the dead body or just something random, but if the player does not have that item on them in pristine-worn condition (if an item) or in their system (if a food or drug) then they character will shake and twitch making aiming much harder (kind of like the heavy breathing/ tired state is now).  As an added bonus this then gives the player something to actually hunt down and loot rather than having ‘nothing’ to do.

 

• I am not sure how to work this one so it doesn’t seem forced, but paranoia and betrayal would be great. Im thinking those situations in movies where the leadre of a bunch of bandits/bad guys shoots his companion or a follower for no other reason than he in his mental state suddenly didn’t trust them. Something like if anyone passes in front of a killers reticule he may fire. It would then make it hard for groups of psychos to function together because of their mass paranoia. Although I don’t really like this implementation as it seems a little forced and totally removing control from a player isn’t really good but I just wanted to get the idea across.

 

• Im sure other people can come up with other thematic downsides to killing people.

There we go, people can still KOS, but now are ‘penalized’ in a very realistic way in game for doing so.

Edited February 17, 2014 by Ramalamadingdong

[r3volution (DayZ) 19]

Rama, totally agree, I posted a very similar idea a couple pages back. Nice to see that there's other people thinking along the same lines. If there's just about every other health system in the game why not mental health?

[Martmital 436]

Rama, totally agree, I posted a very similar idea a couple pages back. Nice to see that there's other people thinking along the same lines. If there's just about every other health system in the game why not mental health?

 

Because it's the most difficult one to simulate naturally.  PTSD is a very serious thing and blights many people around the world.  It's not particularly something that needs to be modelled in a game. The game ain't 'realism', it's pure escapism.  Some things are better left out. Mental health issues are one of em.

[pillock 850]

Increasing zombie count and their reaction to hearing gunshots will do wonders.

 

I would love it if the PvP firefight action got seriously interrupted by rampaging hoards of the undead arriving in the middle of it because they were aggroed by the noise!

[Ramalamadingdong 2]

Because it's the most difficult one to simulate naturally.  PTSD is a very serious thing and blights many people around the world.  It's not particularly something that needs to be modelled in a game. The game ain't 'realism', it's pure escapism.  Some things are better left out. Mental health issues are one of em.

 

Urm starvation and malnutrition are serious issue's that kill 100,000 a week, and that's in the game, so i don't think that's a good enough reason.

 

Yes its true the game is escapism but i see no reason why that has any bearing on adding mental health to the game. It doesn't have to be a mental health simulator, just like eating food isn't a nutrition simulator. Just be enough that playing in a way that would effect your mental health make sure you are effected by it (does have to be limited to killing but could include solitude for example).

Edited February 17, 2014 by Ramalamadingdong

[Vicco 123]

Get used to something.  This game has basically the same elements as the mod, including the map.

Add cars, people will kill for cars and run other people down with cars.

Add "bases" and people will attack the bases.

If zeds are made to come to gunshots, people will fight with axes.

It's a PvP game, not a PvE game.

The only way to play is to team up.  Unless you want to be bored.

That's Rocket's "vision."

Team up.

[irl-calibre 744]

Sorry if this has already been said but i haven't read the whole thread as I stopped when childish name calling started.

 

Here's how I would attempt to 'fix' the KOS problem. I put it in 'marks' as I don’t think it really needs major fixing, in any end of the world apocalypse scenario people would kill other people however they would not do it scar free and that’s what I think should be added. Mental scars.

 

Anyone who kills people on sight is a psycho in the real world, no way to argue that, something has tipped them over the edge and they go round killing folks, killing people is very traumatic.

 

So add things to simulate that the character you are playing is a psycho, these should be things that confuse the person playing the character and should stay in line with the themes of the game ala Night of the living dead/ Walking dead/ Evil dead. Those being paranoia/suspicions/fearfulness/disloyalty.

 

This should manifest in a selection of ways in game from the first time you kill someone and then increase in effect the more players they have killed.

• Players see and hear things only on their screen. We have already have this in the form of the zombie bunny bug but I would want it powered up. Players should hear gunshots and other player generated sounds that don’t exist but should also see the avatars of other players they have killed, frequently. Have them run past them, or up to them in that classic edge of your vision movie style. The player should literally see the faces of the people he has killed in the past.

 

• In the real world when people develop a mental disorder they very often develop an addiction to something as a way to handle their new mental state. Any player that kills a player has a chance to develop an addiction as a way of coping with the trauma of killing someone. Maybe something looted from the dead body or just something random, but if the player does not have that item on them in pristine-worn condition (if an item) or in their system (if a food or drug) then they character will shake and twitch making aiming much harder (kind of like the heavy breathing/ tired state is now).  As an added bonus this then gives the player something to actually hunt down and loot rather than having ‘nothing’ to do.

 

• I am not sure how to work this one so it doesn’t seem forced, but paranoia and betrayal would be great. Im thinking those situations in movies where the leadre of a bunch of bandits/bad guys shoots his companion or a follower for no other reason than he in his mental state suddenly didn’t trust them. Something like if anyone passes in front of a killers reticule he may fire. It would then make it hard for groups of psychos to function together because of their mass paranoia. Although I don’t really like this implementation as it seems a little forced and totally removing control from a player isn’t really good but I just wanted to get the idea across.

 

• Im sure other people can come up with other thematic downsides to killing people.

There we go, people can still KOS, but now are ‘penalized’ in a very realistic way in game for doing so.

 

aye, sez you, there are many reasons why people may shoot on sight in the "Real" world other than them being psycho's, in the game world as in the "real" world i'd say fear would be a massive motivating factor, military operating a shoot to kill policy, etc etc.. my favourite part of dayz is people trying to rationalise the chaos of the zombie apocalypse in the forums.  the "game" is you are cast as a protagonist in a story, your "story". Where there are protagonists you will find antagonists - it's a necessity of narrative, stop trying to punish people for being a necessary part of the narrative, without bandits there wouldn't be heroes and visa versa.  This is how dayZ is, people have to learn to deal with it. the end .. like when your character dies.  The only people who need to be punished are glitchers, & hackers / scripter's, hoppers, loggers..

Edited February 17, 2014 by Calibre

[Ramalamadingdong 2]

aye, sez you, there are many reasons why people may shoot on sight in the "Real" world other than them being psycho's, in the game world as in the "real" world i'd say fear would be a massive motivating factor, military operating a shoot to kill policy, etc etc.. my favourite part of dayz is people trying to rationalise the chaos of the zombie apocalypse in the forums.  the "game" is you are cast as a protagonist in a story, your "story". Where there are protagonists you will find antagonists - it's a necessity of narrative, stop trying to punish people for being a necessary part of the narrative, without bandits there wouldn't be heroes and visa versa.  This is how dayZ is, people have to learn to deal with it. the end .. like when your character dies.  The only people who need to be punished are glitchers, & hackers / scripter's, hoppers, loggers..

 

People who shoot people in real life who where not suffering a mental disorder at the time are still effected by it.

 

People who accidently hit and kill people in car accidents suffer trauma, soliders killing other people in a war zone suffer mental trauma. Humans are a social creature harming or killing another causes trauma unless you are a complete sociopath.

 

Ive at no point said people shouldn't bandit, but there characters should be effected mentally, there should be a down side to go around murdering people, even if you had to do it to survive.

 

Its not a punishment, if your character doesn't eat or drink, you die. If you go around killing people your character mental health should also suffer. If this game was a controlled psychological experiment then i might agree with your line of thinking but since its a game and we know people will log in solely to spoil other peoples enjoyment there HAS to be a downside to playing a mentalist, and from my point of view those things i mentioned would only make it more fun. 'What was that gunshot?!?!?' ' Is that a real person or am i seeing things?!?!' *fire a few shots even though its a hallucination* it totally fits with the whole zombie apocalypse narrative

Edited February 17, 2014 by Ramalamadingdong

[iBane 381]

Your fellow humans will always be your greatest enemy...always.