Do Not Use The RIS Handgaurd It Destroys The M4's Accuracy

[leefriendfield 438]

I always thought the RIS hangaurd was the best until I saw this video.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r_TFfCbiy4U

[oregonized 673]

MAGPUL FTW!

[-Gews- 7443]

Clarification:

Don't use RIS instead of Magpul.

RIS has the same accuracy as the standard handguard but you can attach stuff to it.

None < CQB < OEM < RIS < Magpul.

Edited February 15, 2014 by Gews

[Corto 34]

I noticed that just by comparing the swinging I got with each type of hand guard. I thought it was placebo, and since I don't want to give up my flashlight attached to the RIS, I didn't change it to the MP hand guard at the end. Now this confirms what I was suspecting. I'll make the switch as soon as I get a pristine an MP hand guard.

Edited February 15, 2014 by Corto

[oregonized 673]

I noticed that just by comparing the swinging I got with each type of hand guard. I thought it was placebo, and since I don't want to give up my flashlight attached to the RIS, I didn't change it to the MP hand guard at the end. Now this confirms what I was suspecting. I'll make the switch as soon as I get a pristine MP hand guard.

I would suggest using an FNX for your flashlight needs.

[Combine (DayZ) 247]

Question regarding the FNX flashlight as you mention it: I can put a ruined battery inside a badly damaged pistol flashlight and turn it on technically. But no cone appears.

Is the attachment itself not working as intended / buggy?

Is it dependent on the battery quality (Ruined - I can turn it on and off, but no cone)

Is it dependent on the attachment quality (badly damaged)

[soulfirez 901]

It depends on both the state of the flashlight and the battery try using only worn or better and um lick the battery before putting it in no charge = no light...

 

Although damaged should still work for flashlight but not sure it does with battery though nothing i put a damaged battery in seems to work ......

Edited February 15, 2014 by SoulFirez

[oregonized 673]

The ruined battery is definitely not going to work.  You should be fine with a damaged battery though.

[libertine 351]

M4 is deadly accurate once you've got the magpul stuff and bipod on it.

[Etherimp 1323]

M4 Handguard RIS
attachment_handguard_m4ris 1x1 Dispersion: -0.0440968

 

M4 Handguard MP
attachment_handguard_m4mp 1x1 Dispersion: -0.0489964

 

 

 

M4 Buttstock CQB
attachment_buttstock_m4cqb 2x1 Dispersion: -0.0391971, Dexterity: 1

 

M9A1 Bayonet
attachment_bayonet_m9a1 1x2 Dispersion: 0.0001

 

 

Source: http://dayzdb.com/items?type=27-attachment

Edited February 15, 2014 by Etherimp

[Corto 34]

So, having the bayonet as a merely aesthetic accessory is not a good idea. Damn, it looks so Crimson Guard from Cobra with the bayonet on.

[res 373]

Oh, don't give that beaty some ugly RIS handguard or some little CQB stock, give this baby what she wants  :D

 

 

 

[Wheunis 228]

M4 Handguard RIS

attachment_handguard_m4ris 1x1 Dispersion: -0.0440968

 

M4 Handguard MP

attachment_handguard_m4mp 1x1 Dispersion: -0.0489964

 

 

 

M4 Buttstock CQB

attachment_buttstock_m4cqb 2x1 Dispersion: -0.0391971, Dexterity: 1

 

M9A1 Bayonet

attachment_bayonet_m9a1 1x2 Dispersion: 0.0001

 

 

Source: http://dayzdb.com/items?type=27-attachment

 

While I do know where they got these values, and I know you're just reporting data:

 

Those are incomplete values/data from those items.

Firstly, the M4 base weapon has a single shot dispersion of 0.1000 as reported by DB.

They go further to add that Autofire dispersion is 0.1013.

 

This is all incomplete, but does allow for a clearer picture if you know where to look.

First thing to know is that there are MANY "dispersion values" for any weapon.

First is it's rested, starting dispersion value. This is achieved from a character in CROUCH position, not tired from movement, simply aiming down the sights.

Second is it's incremental dispersion value. This is basically what we call recoil. This is the amount that your dispersion will increase by, per shot fired.

Third, and tied into second value, is the dispersion decay - ie: the amount of dispersion per second that is decayed (back to starting value) after a shot is fired.

 

Alongside those you have other factors that also come into play, such as character prone, character standing, character tired, character broken arm, etc.

But for now, we will assume these are all out of the scope for just now.

 

So...

 

M4 base dispersion is 0.1000.

MP Butstock is @ -0.0490.

MP Handguard @ -0.0490.

 

That leaves dispersion at 0.002.

 

Just for giggles, we attach a Silencer, which apparently modifies dispersion @ -0.0001.

 

So now were at 0.0019 for the M4. This is only in crouch. We havent added bipod+prone yet!

(For the record, that is -0.0500)

 

 

For comparison, the Mosin has a starting dispersion value of 0.0025, with only the recently added compensator affecting that (at a value of -0.05).

 

 

So... just from that, a MP'd M4 has better accuracy than a Mosin? Without even the bipod?!

This seems to argue that a bipod+prone MP'd M4 will have a dispersion above dead-pinpoint?!

 

No... simply... never...

 

 

There are at least 4 other dispersion values at play.

But, as a simple statement regarding M4 parts:

 

Yes, MP parts are SIGNIFICANTLY more accurate than any others available.

But PLEASE do not quote the DB numbers as gospel, as it sends out a generally wrong message about weapon accuracy in general.

 

[KFieLd 2]

I have to say, I'm new to all of the stats when discussing weapon modifiers, but I for one... not a huge fan of things as simple as a hand-guard effecting accuracy of a weapon. Now, I could understand if barrel attachments altered accuracy, and sights, or bipods...a handguard effecting accuracy doesn't make much sense. If it was a vertical foregrip or something that was the modifier, than I could understand. But if I took my M4 which was already dialed in, and swapped around the handguard, it'd still shoot exactly the same UNLESS I either changed the sight, the barrel or attachment(like a suppressor, which would lower bullet velocity since I'd have to use sub-sonic ammo), or the type of ammo/powder load of that ammo itself. It's a piece of plastic, and has nothing to do with the accuracy of the gun assuming the key components haven't been changed, like the barrel or receiver, or sight. Etc. I'm sure you guys understand what I'm saying. I do LOVE the direction they're taking, but I hope they change this up going forward, and add MORE modifiers/attachments that SHOULD and WOULD alter the base accuracy of the weapon. 

Edited February 15, 2014 by KFieLd

[Etherimp 1323]

While I do know where they got these values, and I know you're just reporting data:

 

Those are incomplete values/data from those items.

Firstly, the M4 base weapon has a single shot dispersion of 0.1000 as reported by DB.

They go further to add that Autofire dispersion is 0.1013.

 

This is all incomplete, but does allow for a clearer picture if you know where to look.

First thing to know is that there are MANY "dispersion values" for any weapon.

First is it's rested, starting dispersion value. This is achieved from a character in CROUCH position, not tired from movement, simply aiming down the sights.

Second is it's incremental dispersion value. This is basically what we call recoil. This is the amount that your dispersion will increase by, per shot fired.

Third, and tied into second value, is the dispersion decay - ie: the amount of dispersion per second that is decayed (back to starting value) after a shot is fired.

 

Alongside those you have other factors that also come into play, such as character prone, character standing, character tired, character broken arm, etc.

But for now, we will assume these are all out of the scope for just now.

 

So...

 

M4 base dispersion is 0.1000.

MP Butstock is @ -0.0490.

MP Handguard @ -0.0490.

 

That leaves dispersion at 0.002.

 

Just for giggles, we attach a Silencer, which apparently modifies dispersion @ -0.0001.

 

So now were at 0.0019 for the M4. This is only in crouch. We havent added bipod+prone yet!

(For the record, that is -0.0500)

 

 

For comparison, the Mosin has a starting dispersion value of 0.0025, with only the recently added compensator affecting that (at a value of -0.05).

 

 

So... just from that, a MP'd M4 has better accuracy than a Mosin? Without even the bipod?!

This seems to argue that a bipod+prone MP'd M4 will have a dispersion above dead-pinpoint?!

 

No... simply... never...

 

 

There are at least 4 other dispersion values at play.

But, as a simple statement regarding M4 parts:

 

Yes, MP parts are SIGNIFICANTLY more accurate than any others available.

But PLEASE do not quote the DB numbers as gospel, as it sends out a generally wrong message about weapon accuracy in general.

 

 

As much as I appreciate the knowledge/science, tbh it has nothing to do with what was posted in this thread:

 

RIS or Magpul?

Answer: Magpul.. BUT, RIS is not MUCH worse.

[MrNobody82 26]

have no problem to hit with ris best kill way around 500m direct headshot (prone bipod and acog). yesterday i killed 3 guys in closed combat on the construction side. i dont know why so many ppl have a problem with m4 accuracy?

[dirby12 33]

wow i really didnt knew that, thank you for sharing dude =)

[wartzilla 182]

This is known from the DB values, even though it's completely illogical.

 

Devs, please fix this. Adding a different plastic handguard does not increase an AR's accuracy.

 

Nor does adding a non-freefloat rail system either, really, but if any of these were to improve accuracy it would be the rail system.

[Wheunis 228]

As much as I appreciate the knowledge/science, tbh it has nothing to do with what was posted in this thread:

 

RIS or Magpul?

Answer: Magpul.. BUT, RIS is not MUCH worse.

 

That's the kind of thing I have been testing for a long time.

The ACTUAL difference in dispersion at 300 meters between OE(regular) and MP is a 600% increase for the Buttstock, and around 200% for handguard.

 

Yes, i wrote that right and you read it correctly.

The ACTUAL ingame difference in dispersion between standard and MP is 6x and 2x for buttstock and handguard respectively.

 

 

For clarification:

Testing was done with all pristine parts, including bullets, simply to rule out their possible impacts.

Testing was done with shots fired at a specific identifiable spot on a wall, from 300m away (found a very nice spot in north of map for this - took 2 hours to get it exactly right at 300m).

Testing data compiled from 100 shots per pose (standing, crouch, and prone).

Testing done with stock M4 parts and then swapped parts 1 at a time to narrow that particular part's performance.

Conclusions made from overall spread of shots mapped, and volume of total area calculated.

 

(trust me when i say I have spent MULTIPLE boxes of ammo in testing - not always easy to find a server empty to do 2-3 hour tests on it - not to mention how much runaround it took to get all the ammo lol)

[Leto (DayZ) 72]

I would like to see more realism regarding weapons in DayZ.

 

Using magpul parts should not make an M4 more accurate. That's ridiculous.

[fitzee 248]

Hi.

 

The MP hand guard is obviously better, but if you like playing in the night don't let it stop you from using the ris with flashlight attached.

 

To put it into perspective, I had an M4 fully stock oe parts, finally got a mp handguard, which I ended up losing to a glitch. So for a short while I ran around with stock M4 with no handguard at all. In that condition, I was still one shotting zeds, and also killed another player.

 

Regards.

[Wheunis 228]

I would like to see more realism regarding weapons in DayZ.

 

Using magpul parts should not make an M4 more accurate. That's ridiculous.

 

I'm completely ok with it having that result.

What I am generally not ok with is the SIZE of said results atm.

 

The resulting increase/decrease between the different parts have too large an impact on the gun's performance right now.

I would be very much in favor of an MP part outperforming the standard parts by 20% or so. 10% over the "midrange" parts.

 

But 600% and 200%... that's taking it a bit far...

[zaphodity (DayZ) 41]

Very true. I always take it off when I get an M4.