Personal feelings of military weapons (and future weapons) in this game

[Demoth 366]

This is sort of a "dear diary", so feel free to chime in, but this is in no way me making demands or feeling I know better than anyone else. I just was thinking about this.

 

There have been a lot of debates about the amount of weapons in this game, and how they're really not all that hard to acquire. Then Dean is saying how he wants to have FAR less military grade weapons and gear while also making the game more reliant on improvised gear and weapons.

 

I like the idea, somewhat, but I do have a problem with that being the direction for DayZ for a couple of reasons.

 

1. Let's face it, guns are fun. Maybe not turning this into Chernarus Strike: Coastal Offensive (stole that from someone else), but personally I would LOVE to see this game littered with as many or more guns than Arma 3. Don't mistake me, I don't want them common, but I think it would be interesting if you could find anything from old Soviet bloc weapons to modern military small arms with attachments (again, rare) out the ass.

 

2. Unless the entire system gets overhauled, using anything but military hardware is going to be incredibly difficult, but not in the "I'm so skilled" way. This engine is clunky with movements, aiming and whatnot. I've been shooting a long time, as well as move and shoots and obstacle courses, and it's hard to translate that into a game. It either because far too clunky (Arma 2, IMO) or way too floaty and arcady (Call of Duty). My point is, if they make it so finding an M4 because a 1 in a million chance, but bows and arrows and spears are everywhere, with this system, someone with the M4 is going to create an insane imbalance because of twitchy animations that aren't really that smooth.

 

Let me address point 1 again, because I know this is probably what people are going to get hung up on. One thing they could do to help alleviate this from becoming a military sim mess is to make sure that the guns they add are chambered for different rounds while still being accurate to how the guns operate in real life. Perhaps have it so that you have M4's and SCAR-L's that are chambered in 5.56, but then you can put in HK 416's chambered for the 6.5 Grendal, or a Barrett M468 chambered in 6.8 SPC (Or less AR-15 style platforms). Then you could add pistols ranging from 9mm's to the heavy and impractical-for-combat .50 AE.

 

What this does is make it so that even if you do find a weapon that spawns that is super tacti-cool, you're now going to be hard pressed to not only find ammo, but ammo for the gun you even managed to find.

 

"But this is Russia! Why are you finding all this super Western bullshit guns here?!" Well, you can make the majority Russian and Eastern European guns, that's fine. But also, let's think about what Chernarus is; A former Soviet bloc country that was supposedly going through a civil war. This means you will find weapons from the US Marines who were stationed there, possibly their Recon teams, maybe some very rare Navy SEAL teams were sent in for something clandestine with the local rebel forces? (Or CIA SAD operators, or whatever else). Besides, with it being a backwater area wracked by war, what about gun runners? Black market weapons? I mean, it's Russia / near Russia.....

 

Again, I'm not advocating that you walk down the street and trip over several $10,000 fully modded LWRC M6A2's with thermal scopes (In fact, keep thermal shit out of the game for balance sake, dear god DayZ mod....) but variety always keeps things interesting. I mean, currently the reason it's so easy to gear our is the small pool of guns and ammo types, so if you make the spawn rate for guns the same but having 90 different types of guns ranging from hunting guns to man-killers, I'd imagine finding the right ammo, magazines / clips or whatever else would now make it hard for you to use your fancy toy.

 

Let me also briefly touch on point 2 as well. I'm not saying that all the survivors need to be super trained killers who move with tactical precision to clear houses. What I'm saying is that the movements, as has been touched on forever, just feels clunky. Part of the reason a lot of games add in features to help you seamlessly traverse around a map without needing 8 different buttons to accomplish this is because the human body and our motor system is incredibly complex. Just walking takes an incredible amount of balance with muscles constantly firing off in different spots just to keep you from toppling. This also means that when you're trying to do a manuever quickly through a door, let's say, you instinctively know hot to twist, turn push off and get a burst to go through. Unless you're incredibly uncoordinated, you usually don't get hung up on a little edge of the door, run in place, have to back up, strafe to the left a little and then go through.

 

And the animations? Ho-boy. What's odd is for a game with such clunky movements, it amazes me that when you're looking at other people, they're all able to make these incredibly fast hair-pin turns while they zig zag to close the distance on you to punch you. People don't really shift their weight to indicate they're juking, they just are running straight and now suddenly making a 90 degree turn without losing speed (at Olympic level sprinting speed I may add). Again, I'm not sure if this stuff in all placeholder for now, so don't bite my head off if it's all planning on being changed in the future. I'm just saying that the melee combat is no where near Chivalry: Medieval Warfare levels of smooth, so adding in any type of non-firearm ranged weapon I feel will be completely useless when it'll still be easier to hyper-sprint at someone with an M4 and punch them out. I know I said melee and movements are clunky, but currently punching is pretty accurate to where you're aiming and is surprisingly easy to punch someone out with if the game doesn't decide to desync either your or your opponent.

[Deathlove 2283]

Well look at Rust and you will see how things will develop without guns. Unless makeshift weapons are VERY VERY good and balanced anyone that finds anything military will capitalize off the entire game and no one will have a chance. New players will be virtually screwed. A word of the wise to those that dont want to many guns. Be careful what you ask for you might just get it.

Edited February 14, 2014 by Deathlove

[Demoth 366]

Well look at Rust and you will see how things will develop without guns. Unless makeshift weapons are VERY VERY good and balanced anyone that finds anything military will capitalize off the entire game and no one will have a chance. New players will be virtually screwed. A word of the wise to those that dont want to many guns. Be careful what you ask for you might just get it.

 

I just worry that we'll all be running around with bows and arrows and 3 people with military weapons will basically be running the entire server, having a great time while 97 other people are getting exploded.

[Demoth 366]

Also, re-read my post. Holy Jesus typos. Too many for me to even want to bother and go back and fix....

 

I also wanted to add that I understand that 90% of the content of this game hasn't been put in yet, so AGAIN, I'm not blasting the devs about lack of content, unpolished movements and whatnot. Just voicing that the current discussion about "less guns" and "more improvised stuff" is cool in a way, but also worrying if the animation stuff isn't fixed.

[oregonized 673]

I say leave all the guns, just make ammo super rare so every bullet has to count.  It would also be cool to have to make your own ammo with rare ingredients that would be weaker than standard ammo.

[louist 163]

I don't mind the gun or ammo spawn rates as they stand. Like the OP said, increasing the available pool of weapons and calibres, while retaining the current rate they spawn, would make finding ammo for the specific weapon you have harder.

Cutting down ammo spawn rates would lead to hoarding by organized groups, while making it so difficult for a fresh spawn to compete that a single group players could dominate an entire server, which isn't very good for any server.

[stc105 14]

I read somewhere (maybe on the form) that once bows and makeshift weapons are out, gun loot rate will be turned down. I do not know about Eastern Countries, but I know that in my tiny town in no where Illinois, finding guns by loot stores/homes would probably net you a huge stockpile. I am not sure that guns should be rare, and in real life I would chose a rifle over a commercial bow (not even makeshift one) any day.

 

I agree with OP. The devs should get really specific on ammo and have a wide variety of ammo types and gun types. So for example, finding a Desert Eagle would be both rare and awesome, but trying to find the .50 AE ammo would be just as rare.

 

A wide variety of ammo types and differing ammo rarity will naturally stop people from walking around like Rambo. It would also add interesting decisions when looting. It also might make ammo a trading commodity like food or water. Also, why not add civilian variants of weapons with semi-auto fire only. 

 

If the devs reduce guns to a rarity, I will be very disappointed. It would also make little sense to the setting of DayZ.

[Etherious 907]

This is sort of a "dear diary", so feel free to chime in, but this is in no way me making demands or feeling I know better than anyone else. I just was thinking about this.

 

There have been a lot of debates about the amount of weapons in this game, and how they're really not all that hard to acquire. Then Dean is saying how he wants to have FAR less military grade weapons and gear while also making the game more reliant on improvised gear and weapons.

 

I like the idea, somewhat, but I do have a problem with that being the direction for DayZ for a couple of reasons.

 

1. Let's face it, guns are fun. Maybe not turning this into Chernarus Strike: Coastal Offensive (stole that from someone else), but personally I would LOVE to see this game littered with as many or more guns than Arma 3. Don't mistake me, I don't want them common, but I think it would be interesting if you could find anything from old Soviet bloc weapons to modern military small arms with attachments (again, rare) out the ass.

 

2. Unless the entire system gets overhauled, using anything but military hardware is going to be incredibly difficult, but not in the "I'm so skilled" way. This engine is clunky with movements, aiming and whatnot. I've been shooting a long time, as well as move and shoots and obstacle courses, and it's hard to translate that into a game. It either because far too clunky (Arma 2, IMO) or way too floaty and arcady (Call of Duty). My point is, if they make it so finding an M4 because a 1 in a million chance, but bows and arrows and spears are everywhere, with this system, someone with the M4 is going to create an insane imbalance because of twitchy animations that aren't really that smooth.

 

Let me address point 1 again, because I know this is probably what people are going to get hung up on. One thing they could do to help alleviate this from becoming a military sim mess is to make sure that the guns they add are chambered for different rounds while still being accurate to how the guns operate in real life. Perhaps have it so that you have M4's and SCAR-L's that are chambered in 5.56, but then you can put in HK 416's chambered for the 6.5 Grendal, or a Barrett M468 chambered in 6.8 SPC (Or less AR-15 style platforms). Then you could add pistols ranging from 9mm's to the heavy and impractical-for-combat .50 AE.

 

What this does is make it so that even if you do find a weapon that spawns that is super tacti-cool, you're now going to be hard pressed to not only find ammo, but ammo for the gun you even managed to find.

 

"But this is Russia! Why are you finding all this super Western bullshit guns here?!" Well, you can make the majority Russian and Eastern European guns, that's fine. But also, let's think about what Chernarus is; A former Soviet bloc country that was supposedly going through a civil war. This means you will find weapons from the US Marines who were stationed there, possibly their Recon teams, maybe some very rare Navy SEAL teams were sent in for something clandestine with the local rebel forces? (Or CIA SAD operators, or whatever else). Besides, with it being a backwater area wracked by war, what about gun runners? Black market weapons? I mean, it's Russia / near Russia.....

 

Again, I'm not advocating that you walk down the street and trip over several $10,000 fully modded LWRC M6A2's with thermal scopes (In fact, keep thermal shit out of the game for balance sake, dear god DayZ mod....) but variety always keeps things interesting. I mean, currently the reason it's so easy to gear our is the small pool of guns and ammo types, so if you make the spawn rate for guns the same but having 90 different types of guns ranging from hunting guns to man-killers, I'd imagine finding the right ammo, magazines / clips or whatever else would now make it hard for you to use your fancy toy.

 

Let me also briefly touch on point 2 as well. I'm not saying that all the survivors need to be super trained killers who move with tactical precision to clear houses. What I'm saying is that the movements, as has been touched on forever, just feels clunky. Part of the reason a lot of games add in features to help you seamlessly traverse around a map without needing 8 different buttons to accomplish this is because the human body and our motor system is incredibly complex. Just walking takes an incredible amount of balance with muscles constantly firing off in different spots just to keep you from toppling. This also means that when you're trying to do a manuever quickly through a door, let's say, you instinctively know hot to twist, turn push off and get a burst to go through. Unless you're incredibly uncoordinated, you usually don't get hung up on a little edge of the door, run in place, have to back up, strafe to the left a little and then go through.

 

And the animations? Ho-boy. What's odd is for a game with such clunky movements, it amazes me that when you're looking at other people, they're all able to make these incredibly fast hair-pin turns while they zig zag to close the distance on you to punch you. People don't really shift their weight to indicate they're juking, they just are running straight and now suddenly making a 90 degree turn without losing speed (at Olympic level sprinting speed I may add). Again, I'm not sure if this stuff in all placeholder for now, so don't bite my head off if it's all planning on being changed in the future. I'm just saying that the melee combat is no where near Chivalry: Medieval Warfare levels of smooth, so adding in any type of non-firearm ranged weapon I feel will be completely useless when it'll still be easier to hyper-sprint at someone with an M4 and punch them out. I know I said melee and movements are clunky, but currently punching is pretty accurate to where you're aiming and is surprisingly easy to punch someone out with if the game doesn't decide to desync either your or your opponent.

I love you, Demoth. LOL That is a great idea and I 100% support it. :D

[mercules 1290]

I am not sure that guns should be rare, and in real life I would chose a rifle over a commercial bow (not even makeshift one) any day.

I wouldn't, not in a zombie apocalypse. #1 reason, bows are quieter. One arrow to take out one zombie in the way, or a full mag taking out that zombie and the 20-30 I attract with that shot? Not a hard decision.

[Ovomaltine 30]

I say leave all the guns, just make ammo super rare so every bullet has to count.  It would also be cool to have to make your own ammo with rare ingredients that would be weaker than standard ammo.

 

yeah, a little more rareness on ammo would be fine!

i never ever ran out of ammo as soon as i had a weapon. and like 1-2 starting mags for it.

 

making your own ammo with rare ingredients (like mercury tips) wouldnt neccessarily have to be weaker... :)

[oregonized 673]

yeah, a little more rareness on ammo would be fine!

i never ever ran out of ammo as soon as i had a weapon. and like 1-2 starting mags for it.

 

making your own ammo with rare ingredients (like mercury tips) wouldnt neccessarily have to be weaker... :)

Good luck finding mercury.

 

Just imagine making some rock salt shells for your shotgun though!

[stc105 14]

Making ammo would be cool. You could find empty brass cases, and you would have to go to a factory to use the equipment.

[Demoth 366]

I wouldn't, not in a zombie apocalypse. #1 reason, bows are quieter. One arrow to take out one zombie in the way, or a full mag taking out that zombie and the 20-30 I attract with that shot? Not a hard decision.

 

For zombie killing, of course.

 

But I don't think that DayZ will ever be free from roving bands of maniacs no matter how hard Rocket tries to discourage KOS or general banditry.

 

Again, it's fine to have things like bows and makeshift melee weapons, but they have to actually function smoothly or no one will give them the time of day. Despite all the talking of changing this and that, game engines always have their limitations and I'll be VERY surprised if Rocket can somehow turn what they have now and overhaul it so hard that melee and non firearm projectiles become useful.

 

Then again, killing someone with a bow would probably be stupidly hard if they're running around AND firing full auto from the hip (fear of being shot, dirt kicked up in your face, and them being a moving target). I know there are people with insane bow skills who could probably hit me in the eye while I was running from 100 meters away, but as I said above, there is a difference between something being hard because it requires practice, and something being hard because the game feels as though its limitations are actively combating you.

 

I just think it'd be cool running into someone with an MP5 SMG while I was toting a PP-19 Bizon. We could then figure a way to try and barter to split ammo, the PP-19 uses 7.62x25mm Tokarev (yes, it can use 9mm Parabellum but it wouldn't here) while the MP5 uses 9mm. This exchange could also go smoothly because even though each had ammo for the other person's gun, neither actually could find a magazine for said gun.

 

Again, more guns = good I believe. I mean, look how hard it is to find FNX magazines as it is without server hopping or camping specific loot zones for server resets. Now imagine there are 15 different handguns in the games that use magazines that aren't interchangeable.

[Valadain 270]

Making ammo would be cool. You could find empty brass cases, and you would have to go to a factory to use the equipment.

 

If you have brass, you don't need a factory. You'd need that to make brass cases. Reloading isn't all that complicated, just make some gun powders spawns, some lead molds, and rare-spawn presses. You'd also want to let people pick up their own brass after firing.

 

Though honestly, that's a lot of work for little gain. I'd just go with putting in more types of ammo. Make ammo for civilian weapons more common and ammo for military weapons far less common. You can also put some decent environmental obstacles around the military ammo (like hordes of military zombies that are a bit tougher). Once bullets are a bit harder to get for military weapons, full-auto has less appeal (which it should anyway as it is really for suppression fire, not killing people). Ramp up the .223/5.56 damage to what it should be and you'll have everyone on a fairly level playing field.

 

I like the idea of improvised weapons, but aside from a bow (which, by the way, would be tough as shit to improvise) or a crossbow (even tougher), you are mostly going to have melee weapons. Melee weapons don't level the playing field, unless you make them unrealistically powerful (see Far Cry 3, automatic melee death). Which, by the way, is really the only decent way to do melee in an FPS (focus on the approach and animate the result as actually fighting is just a mash-glitch-fest in first person).

 

I think they made a huge mistake by just not putting in binoculars right away. More prolific in-game maps and compasses would also help a ton as people wouldn't feel the need to stick around the death-fest areas and get frustrated. Removing sniper rifles (easy to do by just making the Mosin more authentic by disallowing optics) until there is a properly unrealistic sniping difficulty would also help a lot.

[McGarnagle 94]

The second part of this interview is encouraging on the weapon-variety front, so I'm actually pretty excited about this year for DayZ.

 

I like the idea of reduced weapon drop, and I don't think it will result in one or two people "ruling" a server, but my biggest concern was that they would be lazy and just put one of each weapon archetype (sniper, assualt, shotgun, battle rifle, revolver, semi-auto handgun, etc)

 

After reading through that Q&A, I'm no longer that worried about it. The devs seem to want variety in the game as much as we do, and have a better understanding of what is and is not possible.

[stc105 14]

Thanks for the interview link. I think some of us are worried about this weapon crafting stuff. I mean why not focus development on loot storage (tents, safes, or whatever the dev team comes up with), AI, vehicles, or even base building.

 

I am not sure why crafting weapons is such a big deal. It appears to me, that the devs are saying that the way things are now is temporary until we implement are awesome weapon crafting system, and then we will turn down the gun spawns.

 

No offense to the devs, but if I want to craft weapons, I would go play Minecraft or Rust. The problem with craft-able weapons is that if you don't lower gun spawns, then everyone will just skip over the weapon crafting. The problem with lowering gun spawns is that server hopping will be more prevalent. Heck, I would be tempted to server hop just to be one of the few with a M4 and own your crafted nail bat or crafted bow.

 

I agree the devs want variety, but if they aren't careful DayZ will become a very different game (whether that is good or bad is up to the individual) than what it is now. I really hope DayZ does not become too crafting crazy. I wouldn't mine some crafting, but please do not make this game Rust with zombies.

[Wheunis 228]

On this particular topic... I hope for MUCH LESS military grade gear.

 

But, realistically: I will let Rocket and his men have this one (and some others) at their own design.

 

This is something that I feel they need to FIGURE OUT BY THEMSELVES. It impacts the game too much to leave it in the hands of "opinion".

[Deathlove 2283]

On this particular topic... I hope for MUCH LESS military grade gear.

 

But, realistically: I will let Rocket and his men have this one (and some others) at their own design.

 

This is something that I feel they need to FIGURE OUT BY THEMSELVES. It impacts the game too much to leave it in the hands of "opinion".

I hope theres more to be honest. If its a MILITARY base your in than you should be able to find some really exclusive gear not to mention not everyone would take there military ruck sacks with them. Military packs should be put in the game at some point they are a vital part to the army.

[Ovomaltine 30]

Good luck finding mercury.

 

Just imagine making some rock salt shells for your shotgun though!

 

you can find morphine and epinephrine... why would mercury be any rarer?

[Whyherro123 2283]

I say leave all the guns, just make ammo super rare so every bullet has to count.  It would also be cool to have to make your own ammo with rare ingredients that would be weaker than standard ammo.

Give me a god-damn black powder musket, and I will mess up your day...so long as you are within 75-150 meters : P

In all seriousness, black powder is a substance that, with a little chemistry know-how, can be made in your basement with chemicals found readily in the home, including your own piss, if you so choose. The ease of making the propellant, along with the actual bullets (which can be made of melted down tire weights), makes a black powder firearm one of the most efficient long-term survival firearms. Granted,smoke gets everywhere, you only get one shot, reloading takes a while, and weapon maintenance is abso-fucking-lutely 1001% king, but it is still very useful, both for hunting (ball for big game, shot for small) and for defending yourself. 

 

Plus, I don't know what it is like in Europe, but in almost every state in the US, black powder firearms are next to unregulated, even in States that are not firearm-friendly (counter to stereotypes, not all of the US has a rifle-shaped erection : P)  Case in point, in Massachusetts, where there is a local saying ,"fun is outlawed in Taxachusetts", you just have to be 18 in order to purchase a "primitive firearm", and have an FID in order to buy propellant ( I just make my own)

[Whyherro123 2283]

Thanks for the interview link. I think some of us are worried about this weapon crafting stuff. I mean why not focus development on loot storage (tents, safes, or whatever the dev team comes up with), AI, vehicles, or even base building.

 

I am not sure why crafting weapons is such a big deal. It appears to me, that the devs are saying that the way things are now is temporary until we implement are awesome weapon crafting system, and then we will turn down the gun spawns.

 

No offense to the devs, but if I want to craft weapons, I would go play Minecraft or Rust. The problem with craft-able weapons is that if you don't lower gun spawns, then everyone will just skip over the weapon crafting. The problem with lowering gun spawns is that server hopping will be more prevalent. Heck, I would be tempted to server hop just to be one of the few with a M4 and own your crafted nail bat or crafted bow.

 

I agree the devs want variety, but if they aren't careful DayZ will become a very different game (whether that is good or bad is up to the individual) than what it is now. I really hope DayZ does not become too crafting crazy. I wouldn't mine some crafting, but please do not make this game Rust with zombies.

The devs are planning on adding craftable bows? Ugh. I don't think they quite understand just how difficult it is to make a serviceable bow and arrows. In medieval Britain, it was an art, done by certified practitioners. You don't just take a stick and attach some string, it takes a lot of effort to make a bow...well, a bow and arrows that will last and shoot with accuracy and power.

[Valadain 270]

The devs are planning on adding craftable bows? Ugh. I don't think they quite understand just how difficult it is to make a serviceable bow and arrows. In medieval Britain, it was an art, done by certified practitioners. You don't just take a stick and attach some string, it takes a lot of effort to make a bow...well, a bow and arrows that will last and shoot with accuracy and power.

 

Yeah, it is kind of the opposite of "Authentic". Scavenging is authentic, as is some amount of modifying. Taping magazines together? Yes. Repairing clothing and backpacks with duct tape? Yep. Popping a mirror on a stick to see around corners? Absolutely.

[Whyherro123 2283]

Yeah, it is kind of the opposite of "Authentic". Scavenging is authentic, as is some amount of modifying. Taping magazines together? Yes. Repairing clothing and backpacks with duct tape? Yep. Popping a mirror on a stick to see around corners? Absolutely.

Yeah, part of the reason armies started to switch from bows to firearms was the amount of work required to make an effective war-bow. The other aspect was the training. It takes a lifetime of training for an archer to be effective in combat. It takes a couple of weeks for a musketman to be combat effective, plus he could carry far more ammunition on his person.

Plus, I think people on this forum overestimate just how powerful a bow would be. Yes, a bow can easily kill you, but you have to be strong enough to draw it back first. A musket can kill just as easily ( a .75 lead ball can put a 6 - 8 in hole in your insides), while only requiring you to manually work a ramrod, a task that is trivial. 

Both weapons are rendered ineffective by inclement weather, though a musket would be better, because you can keep your powder dry if you are careful (flintlocks have a pan cover, which can keep out some water, so long as you dont go swimming with the damn thing)

 

Bows have the advantages of silent shooting, light weight, and fast reloading, while muskets have the advantages of pure power, range (believe me or not, you can hit a target 50m away with a musket reliably, so long as you properly brace and use good loads), and ease of use. All in all, I'd rather have a blackpowder musket over a bow.

[Deathlove 2283]

Yeah, part of the reason armies started to switch from bows to firearms was the amount of work required to make an effective war-bow. The other aspect was the training. It takes a lifetime of training for an archer to be effective in combat. It takes a couple of weeks for a musketman to be combat effective, plus he could carry far more ammunition on his person.

Plus, I think people on this forum overestimate just how powerful a bow would be. Yes, a bow can easily kill you, but you have to be strong enough to draw it back first. A musket can kill just as easily ( a .75 lead ball can put a 6 - 8 in hole in your insides), while only requiring you to manually work a ramrod, a task that is trivial. 

Both weapons are rendered ineffective by inclement weather, though a musket would be better, because you can keep your powder dry if you are careful (flintlocks have a pan cover, which can keep out some water, so long as you dont go swimming with the damn thing)

 

Bows have the advantages of silent shooting, light weight, and fast reloading, while muskets have the advantages of pure power, range (believe me or not, you can hit a target 50m away with a musket reliably, so long as you properly brace and use good loads), and ease of use. All in all, I'd rather have a blackpowder musket over a bow.

What would be better craftable than a bow would be actual guns per say like what you can do in Nether and 7 Days To Die. You find the parts from guns/broken guns and create your own stuff via parts. Would seem more logical to be honest. Your fare more likely to come across more gun parts than you are a pristine gun anyways and as you stated would be easier than crafting and using a bow.

[soulfirez 901]

What would be better craftable than a bow would be actual guns per say like what you can do in Nether and 7 Days To Die. You find the parts from guns/broken guns and create your own stuff via parts. Would seem more logical to be honest. Your fare more likely to come across more gun parts than you are a pristine gun anyways and as you stated would be easier than crafting and using a bow.

yeah i can roll with this once we start finding guns that are not pristine the ability to fix them to a working state. Id still use a bow for range until yes i could get my broken or even makeshift gun going ( probably still use bow for hunting animals as arrows are easier than bullets to make. But i am all for any add ons to the game that are realistic/authentic and fit a survival game thats not at heart a straight war game...