How much authenticity is too much?

[LaughingJack (DayZ) 767]

So i stumbled upon this topic on reddit, on which rocket commented and I just wanted to know what you think about that my fellow guinea pigs in this experiment called DayZ...

 

 

 

 

 

Which lead later on to this, which was, for me, the more interesting part:

 

 

 

 

...so, what are your thoughts? :)

[terminal_boy 860]

First the 10/22 is complete immersion breaker for me as I have more chance of finding myself stuck 7" up Miley Cyrus than there would be of finding a 10/22 in Chernarus.

 

Lodged bullets sounds like it's all going to get a bit Far Cry 2 where your character can just dig bullets out with pliers that should have caused enormous damage and permanent injury.

[rekcneb 4]

Thats just about specific balancing. How much would the bullet affect you while in your body, how difficult would it be to remove it etc.

[Rudette 435]

I like the stabby-wound idea!  As it is now, knives are pretty lackluster.. And you, using Joker as an avatar, surely understand my need to get up close and feel all the little...emotions.

The bullet thing? Well that remains to be seen, more details might be needed to make a clear-cut call.. Could give rise to a more dedicated medic playstyle ---or the need for one--- in team/clan play. People that do well at learning all the little nuances of the medical items in game could carve out a viable niche for themselves, just like a real doctor might be coveted in zombie apoc fiction.

 

Edited February 11, 2014 by Rudette

[Jack Dant 158]

Look ma! rocket replied to me on reddit!

 

Now that's out of the way... as I mentioned on reddit, I would love some way to model the internal damage of bullets. Something that makes even a not inmediately lethal shot a huge pain in the ass. Internal bleeding comes to mind, where you lose blood slowly for a while, and have to either hope it heals or tranfuse.

 

First the 10/22 is complete immersion breaker for me as I have more chance of finding myself stuck 7" up Miley Cyrus than there would be of finding a 10/22 in Chernarus.

Globalization, globalization, globalization. You can easily buy a 10/22 or any number of american made .22 semiautos in Europe. I don't see why it would be impossible to find one in Chernarus.

 

Unless you go out for drinks for Miley every week, and you meant unlikely instead of impossible. If so, tell her to stop making an ass of herself.

[Grimey Rick 3417]

In my humble opinion, we need to start stepping up the realism in combat. The last patch that added items absorbing damage from incoming ballistics was a step in the opposite direction. I am not an expert on munitions, but I'm fairly certain that a 51mm bullet from a Mosin-Nagant is going to pierce through your can of beans, vest and shirt on its way to piercing through your chest. I could be wrong, and if I am, please correct me, but having to shoot someone three to four times is borderline ridiculous. I would far rather they kept the old system of almost instant death when shot by almost any gun. That seems more realistic to me. We're survivors who're probably scared out of our wits and are [assumingly] not trained in the use of weapons and general ranged combat. We're regular people.

 

Adding to that, the current implementation of melee weapons is fairly bizarre. Why do I have to slash a zombie twenty times with the machete before he dies? I have to hit him three or four times in the head before he drops. This goes for the crowbar, baseball bat and adjustable wrench. These are all items that would perpetually cause your head to explode upon impact. What gives? I'd like to be able to run around with something besides the fireman's axe without worrying about sacrificing the effectiveness of my character.

 

Thoughts?

Edited February 11, 2014 by Grimey Rick

[LeChat 131]

Personally I feel that if they're going to add something as bullets stuck in wounds they need to add mechanics for those type of wounds or rather mechanics to treat those types of wounds.

But yes, taking it further towards realism would be good - although with that said I think they need to distribute the realism to all parts. A highly realistic weapons system and a mediocre healing system is just bad. Effects from injuries should really linger on for a long time imo. The systems need  to evolve and progress hand in hand. Same goes for all other parts as well. You can't just make portion X of the game realistic and ignore the rest. If they're going to make realistic combat, building and crafting must be realistic as well - while it is easier to make combat more realistic because combat and damage has a number of variables and just adding a few of those makes the game more realistic than other FPS in comparison to for instance building. But I'd like to see the fact that you need foundation to build a sturdy building, or dig holes for your posts if you're building a fence and such. As long as they can pull it off, go hog wild - but maintain realism across all spectrums in a balanced fashion.

[Rudette 435]

There is a huge disparity in power level betwixt melee weapons.

I enjoy my axe murdering sprees, but really, my dream is stealthy precision knife kills and gruesome frontal stabby assaults. I'd like to see the heavier blunt weapons more prone to breaking bones, the lighter ones like baseball bats and shovels at least have nominal shock damage to knock people unconscious with farther reach than our fists. Something to set them apart, make them worth carrying. There will probably be melee weapons that outclass each other, but not so broadly. We need to choose a melee weapon based on how it feels in combat. What it offers, rather than just raw values.

Right now, all we have is raw values though. Fireaxe, fists, or GTFO.

I think the current armor system is bugged. I might be wrong, surely it's not intentional?

Edited February 11, 2014 by Rudette

[terminal_boy 860]

Look ma! rocket replied to me on reddit!

 

Now that's out of the way... as I mentioned on reddit, I would love some way to model the internal damage of bullets. Something that makes even a not inmediately lethal shot a huge pain in the ass. Internal bleeding comes to mind, where you lose blood slowly for a while, and have to either hope it heals or tranfuse.

 

Globalization, globalization, globalization. You can easily buy a 10/22 or any number of american made .22 semiautos in Europe. I don't see why it would be impossible to find one in Chernarus.

 

Unless you go out for drinks for Miley every week, and you meant unlikely instead of impossible. If so, tell her to stop making an ass of herself.

 

The import costs would make a 10/22 very expensive compared to the "local" CZ or Baikal equivalent. Price, reliability and availability of ammunition and spares will be the key factors that any Eastern/Central European farmer or hunter considers when buy a .22LR rifle.

 

I wouldn't need to tell Miley to behave if I saw her, as she'd be living in my basement from then on...

[Grimey Rick 3417]

There is a huge disparity in power level betwixt melee weapons.

I enjoy my axe murdering sprees, but really, my dream is stealthy precision knife kills and gruesome frontal stabby assaults. I'd like to see the heavier blunt weapons more prone to breaking bones, the lighter ones like baseball bats and shovels at least have nominal shock damage to knock people unconscious with farther reach than our fists. Something to set them apart, make them worth carrying. There will probably be melee weapons that outclass each other, but not so broadly. We need to choose a melee weapon based on how it feels in combat. What it offers, rather than just raw values.

Right now, all we have is raw values though. Fireaxe, fists, or GTFO.

I think the current armor system is bugged. I might be wrong, surely it's not intentional?

 

I really, really, really hope it's not working as intended in its current form. I was shot six times by an SKS-toting marksman tonight, and I didn't die. I didn't even bleed. My shirt, vest, pants and everything contained therein were systematically obliterated, but... but... I didn't even bleed! I should've been dead. Period.

[soulfirez 901]

In my humble opinion, we need to start stepping up the realism in combat. The last patch that added items absorbing damage from incoming ballistics was a step in the opposite direction. I am not an expert on munitions, but I'm fairly certain that a 51mm bullet from a Mosin-Nagant is going to pierce through your can of beans, vest and shirt on its way to piercing through your chest. I could be wrong, and if I am, please correct me, but having to shoot someone three to four times is borderline ridiculous. I would far rather they kept the old system of almost instant death when shot by almost any gun. That seems more realistic to me. We're survivors who're probably scared out of our wits and are [assumingly] not trained in the use of weapons and general ranged combat. We're regular people.

 

Adding to that, the current implementation of melee weapons is fairly bizarre. Why do I have to slash a zombie twenty times with the machete before he dies? I have to hit him three or four times in the head before he drops. This goes for the crowbar, baseball bat and adjustable wrench. These are all items that would perpetually cause your head to explode upon impact. What gives? I'd like to be able to run around with something besides the fireman's axe without worrying about sacrificing the effectiveness of my character.

 

Thoughts?

Ah i live on a farm and i tried out a 308 on a bible ( i had a mosin shot at close range 5m max  the bullet was stopped by the bible in game). the results i got werent scientific by any means but what happened to the bible wouldnt have me brave enough to put one on my chest and get my wife to shoot it not even a 50 m shot lol....(have been shot wearing a vest before hurt like hell but it stopped it but then it was made to...)

 

308 comparable to mosin sorry i dont own an expensive 80 year old rifle...

Edited February 11, 2014 by SoulFirez

[glemmar 88]

What ever makes the medical mechanics and surviving wounds more difficult is always a step forward.

[Daemonkid 493]

Need more combat realism, because that will go hand in hand with a good medical system.

I want, no I NEED a good medical system. With suturing, pain management, all the good stuff.

Dying should be a long drawn out affair. I want to claw my way from a near death experience back to a reasonable level of health.

I want to fight for my life damnit!

[drsheepbringer 10]

I like the remove bullet idea and stitches, but as for stabbing...we need a reason why. One comes automatically in mind is an empty gun and you stab someone, but pretty much everyone is wielding a melee weapon also.

 

Perhaps...only a single "big weapon". No more axes and rifles. Just one...pistols can still be used and such, but this would turn the weapons into melee as well. A reason.

[Rudette 435]

I really, really, really hope it's not working as intended in its current form. I was shot six times by an SKS-toting marksman tonight, and I didn't die. I didn't even bleed. My shirt, vest, pants and everything contained therein were systematically obliterated, but... but... I didn't even bleed! I should've been dead. Period.

o.o That is pretty out there.

[Rudette 435]

Ah i live on a farm and i tried out a 308 on a bible ( i had a mosin shot at close range 5m max  the bullet was stopped by the bible in game). the results i got werent scientific by any means but what happened to the bible wouldnt have me brave enough to put one on my chest and get my wife to shoot it not even a 50 m shot lol....(have been shot wearing a vest before hurt like hell but it stopped it but then it was made to...)

 

308 comparable to mosin sorry i dont own an expensive 80 year old rifle...

Mosins are actually pretty cheap! >.> 100-200ish bucks depending on where you get it!

[mgc 92]

Damage that doesnt harm the zombies brain should imo not be able to kill it. This is why an axe works miracles but a kitchen knife should not.

 

I liked the adrenaline idea but 3 mins is imo way over the top. Maybe 5 or 10 secs before your hand unsteadies from shock. Could be enough to save your life.

[Jack Dant 158]

Dying should be a long drawn out affair. I want to claw my way from a near death experience back to a reasonable level of health.

I want to fight for my life damnit!

Exactly. Getting shot or stabbed is no joke IRL, and would be much worse in a situation without working healthcare. Certainly not as easy as bandaging and eating a lot.

[Damnyourdeadman 1045]

Isn't it a bit too much? I mean sure,we could recrate more serious wounds like having a status effect "deep wound bleeding" or something relevant,which will require the player to stich himself up. (needle+neting string needle needs to be sterile and preferably we neting string should be sterile,and manufactured for medical purposes or else may cause infection) But having the player remove the bullet/projectile in my humble opinion is not taking things to another level.

[LaughingJack (DayZ) 767]

Since the Devs are writing there and not here (and I can totally udnerstand that - if retarded posts would kill, this forum would be a damn silent place) I read the Dayz sub...

 

And the 10/22...well...we'll see how many of them will be left when DayZ hits beta...and how many Steyr Augs (I'm from Austria. Our guns. And btw. awesome guns. But far too expensive normally... ;)) but that wasn't the point of the thread, neither Miley Cyrus (but if you see her, tell her she should stop that creepy, tongue-thing and let her hair grow again and....well...wear something that is not less faishonable than the average lady gaga outfit.) OK, stop, no more ranting....

 

 

I like the idea of more realism, but I can just point to LeChats post *points up*, he said what I was thinking on this topic as well. Oh an Ricks post as well about the...let's call it...experimental (we hope so) damage system...

[Tizzle 90]

I don't want to trip over my own feet and fall down while I'm walking from Kozlavko to Zelegorsk, if that answers your question

[Grimey Rick 3417]

I don't want to trip over my own feet and fall down while I'm walking from Kozlavko to Zelegorsk, if that answers your question

 

I was torn on this issue.

 

I tripped the other day running up the stairs to the top of the air traffic control tower. My initial reaction? "WHAT IN THE COMPLETE ACTUAL F*** JUST HAPPENED?! SERIOUSLY?! TOO FAR, DAYZ, TOO FAR." However, later, after putting some thought into it, I decided that I actually like the idea. We're running around with a lot of gear on our backs; combine that with clunky weaponry, tools and miscellaneous other items, and you're going to have random trips and falls. I think this is an issue that will really force you to decide what kind of game you're looking for.

[oregonized 673]

The game is supposed to be a simulator so the more realistic stuff added in the game, the better the game will be.

[Dempsey (DayZ) 4]

What concerns me, is that it's going to get to the point where our characters are a moving collection of injuries, infection, hunger , performance/damage modifier..etc etc. To the point where they are useless and a drain of time. At this point re-spawning with a new character will hold more appeal than continuing with the knackered existing one.. Where's the fun in that.

[blacklabel79 949]

I can only speculate that the reduced damage intake is due to stuff absorbing Impact. I guess this will be tweaked. And IMOH it Needs tweaking back to prepatch Levels with a slight modifyer if you get hit through the backpack.