Premium loot -- A balanced proposal to "gearing up"

[skyline-gtr 130]

You cant do anything in game without playing it....

[skyline-gtr 130]

I see another issue with this system.

 

It would allow for a group of people to horde keys.

If one of the group dies, they now have access to the "premium loot" very quickly and easily.

 

Which completely goes against your idea of stopping gear up quickly.

[Nurrvillian 23]

You are a genius mate i truly believe that this would make the game much more playable however it would still depend on the personal role-play of the player as to whether or not they kill you damaging loot now doesn't stop KOS so having lock picks probably wont stop that either but other than that this idea is flawless and i hope more people comment to push this higher and get it seen  

[skyline-gtr 130]

You are a genius mate i truly believe that this would make the game much more playable however it would still depend on the personal role-play of the player as to whether or not they kill you damaging loot now doesn't stop KOS so having lock picks probably wont stop that either but other than that this idea is flawless and i hope more people comment to push this higher and get it seen  

 

Did you read my last post?

I point out an obvious flaw...

 

 

haha seriously, how much did he pay you ???

[carcinovich 156]

You cant do anything in game without playing it....

Yeah... And your point? Are you dense? The issue is about gearing up in a couple of hours because you know exactly where all the premium loot spawns, and then server-hop to gear up quickly. That's not playing the game, and that is what I meant.

I would add "And you know it," but I'm really starting to wonder now.

 

I see another issue with this system.

 

It would allow for a group of people to horde keys.

If one of the group dies, they now have access to the "premium loot" very quickly and easily.

 

Which completely goes against your idea of stopping gear up quickly.

What is this, I don't even...

Here...

• Currently (the problem), high-end loot can be acquired very quickly by server-hopping around areas where this high-end loot spawns.

   

• With gated content, high-end loot can only be spawned into the game through random drops. This is a slower process, as running around and collecting these drops takes serious time and energy. This cannot be exploited by server-hopping.

Gated content is all about slowing down the rate by which premium items are introduced into the world. Whatever happens afterwards is incidental. Killing people WILL ALWAYS BE a legitimate tactic for acquiring loot -- but it doesn't actually spawn loot in the first place, which means that it has zero impact on the total amount of items being introduced into the world. You are talking about merely transferring it from one person to another.

If you kill another player and take his stuff, that's a legitimate way to gear up quickly. Going to the airfield and server-hopping around IS NOT.

 

 

Did you read my last post?

I point out an obvious flaw...

 

 

haha seriously, how much did he pay you ???

You know, you should really stop while you're ahead. I think you're embarrassing yourself.

I honestly think you're being a contrarian just out of spite. Maybe even to save face, who knows. It's annoying. Please stop.

[skyline-gtr 130]

Perhaps you misunderstood.

 

Your idea is to prevent looting up quickly.

 

Now with your keys/lockpicks, your group of friends can horde these and give you some on death, allowing a quick gear up scenario.

[jubeidok 495]

As for realism arguments, you could also add random zombie drops of premium-gear in addition to what I had already suggested. That, or allow for a *very* small possibility that any given loot spawn could spawn premium-gear. The "gated" effect is essentially the same.

I thought this idea was more realistic because it allows for some of this gear to be found in sensible locations. But I honestly would be okay with *any* solution that allows for properly gated premium content. 

I too would like to see something like this. You're scoping out a town, spot a military zombie wandering about that forces you to do a double take. Low and behold, you saw what you think you saw, a high powered assault rifle still slung over it's shoulder. 

 

To me that would be a pretty cool find and even cooler if I was only armed with a screw driver at the time, the town infested with zeds.

[hypermoon 75]

Perhaps you misunderstood.

 

Your idea is to prevent looting up quickly.

 

Now with your keys/lockpicks, your group of friends can horde these and give you some on death, allowing a quick gear up scenario.

How do you hoard extremely rare items? I read this whole thread. I don't know why you are trying to defend the idea that the game is fine as it is. Even the dev team know that there is an issue with loot being too easily accessible. It's GOING to be made rarer in the future, there is no reason to debate that, it's absolutely going to happen. This is simply a discussion of HOW it's going to happen.

 

Everything OP said about KOS and the game becoming obscenely boring after you are geared out are true. And for some reason alot of people's arguments are "well you just don't know how to play the game", or "you just aren't being creative enough to enjoy the game". No the issue is the games lack of content. The developers even admit that, but for some reason people on this forum think the game is just find and dandy as it is which blows my mind.

[skyline-gtr 130]

TripX7, While your opinion may feel like facts to you. It is certainly not. Many people see things differently.

[carcinovich 156]

Perhaps you misunderstood.

 

Your idea is to prevent looting up quickly.

 

Now with your keys/lockpicks, your group of friends can horde these and give you some on death, allowing a quick gear up scenario.

1) Hoarding keys/lockpicks to any significant degree would take up inventory. Once you're fully geared-up, lockpicks have already used most of their utility, and hoarding them makes little sense (especially if they are not stackable).

2) Getting shot means that you'd probably have most, if not all, of whatever it is you're hoarding ruined.

3) Even once you reconnect with your buddies, then you'd have to actually travel to the location that has locked caches.

4) Any hoarded keys/lockpicks would still have been gained through legitimate means (instead of exploiting them into existence using server-hopping). They were actually earned. They took considerable time and effort to gain. So if your friends want to share what they have with you, well, that is their own prerogative.

Hoarding has it's aforementioned downsides.

I'm not trying to stop "any" form of gearing up quickly. You can still kill people, trade for the good stuff, share loot between your buddies, etc. Instead, I'm trying to gate how fast content can be acquired over time -- so that it's not possible to exploit the current system and gain as much premium loot as you want by hopping around on empty/nearly-empty servers. There's a difference.

Edited February 10, 2014 by carcinovich

[Nurrvillian 23]

Did you read my last post?

I point out an obvious flaw...

 

 

haha seriously, how much did he pay you ???

You can't hoard key because they basically just become damaged for the simplest of reasons because they are small and flimsy having them packed in a bag with lots of other large loot they would come under general wear and tea therefore not allowing to hold a multitude of keys without breaking them and also I don't need to be payed to give my input when I think something is a genius idea I will just ell people other than picking on their creativity and ingenuity just because you couldn't think of a system to stop players server hopping for loot don't just point out blank flaws try giving a resolution to the problem

[GodOfGrain 191]

Like.

 

But I think there should be a certain variety in such tools and differnt door-strengths:

 

Crowbar for normal doors, some crates ... in some civilian / industrial houses

Lockpicks for heavier doors and crates ... in warehouses, some civilian houses ... hospitals

Cutting torch (tool) + gas cylinder / military loot

Explosives / military loot

 

Side effect: Could be used as currency!

[carcinovich 156]

Like.

 

But I think there should be a certain variety in such tools and differnt door-strengths:

 

Crowbar for normal doors, some crates ... in some civilian / industrial houses

Lockpicks for heavier doors and crates ... in warehouses, some civilian houses ... hospitals

Cutting torch (tool) + gas cylinder / military loot

Explosives / military loot

 

Side effect: Could be used as currency!

Now you're thinking. Have beans.

Edited February 10, 2014 by carcinovich

[MagneticToast 102]

I'd rather the high grade weapons and just all items just spawn randomly, all over the country side/towns. A certain amount per every few days or something. Maybe 2 M4's on the whole map. One could be lying in a field, one could be in a deer stand. next time they spawn it would be completely different. Encourages you to actually search everything to survive.

[Meenos 47]

nice idea :) but yeah its pretty hard to move arround in the game when you dont have any weapon what so ever. because so many are trying to kill you. 

ive only met 2 heroes in this game so far. and in regular cities people camp and kill you. or they group and kill you, the solo surviver has a hard time if he does not gear up properly, so yeah i go to the airport and il get a m4 and a handgun and 90-130 ammo. that way i can actually defend myself :P 

[Valadain 270]

I'm generally against artificial time-sinks. They just aren't necessary. I'm not against having larger caches that are harder to get to, primarily to reward group play (which right now is somewhat hindered by sparse loot creating a situation where it is better to split up and loot more places).

 

I don't have a problem with automatic rifles being more common behind such obstacles, but not entirely absent elsewhere. Honestly, automatic weapon does not equal best. Strategy and aim will beat automatic fire nearly every time (luck being the exception).

 

Lock picks would generally annoy me implemented in this fashion as I know too much about locks and picking locks. I could tell you numerous methods to improvise your way through a lock, having no manufactured picks.

[Duenan 226]

10000000% agree

 

guns arent lying around on military bases for anyone to grab

 

they should be locked up in armories and it should be tough to get to them but once you do....o man

 

btw this would not stop the KOS fields of the airport.

 

People just would camp the airport waiting to rob the first person that heads to the armory even if they have to use a 10/22 to do it

[Ramzzzeee 17]

I had thought about locked doors (and lock picks) before, but not for the reason you mentioned it (though it is a good reason).

I would definitely like to see locked doors/containers which "potentially" have good loot. It'd also be cool if some locked/barricaded rooms were infested with the "infected"

[AUTRanger 23]

Skyline-GTR:

People like you love to be against something and beat someone in a disscussion on the internet. But 95% of your argumentation against the op is just invalid - but thats ok because not everyone can have the same intelligence quotient. So u ll not stop arguing but pls carcinovich dont waste your time with him your idea is great - its awesome in all aspects and i dont see why devs shoul not implement it ... it would improve gameplay so much

Edited March 6, 2014 by AUTRanger

[mgc 92]

There's a serious problem with DayZ, and you know of what I speak: the pilgrimage to the airport. You go there, get "geared up," and -- TADA! --- you're at the end-game. Oh no, Airfield already looted? Time to server hop onto a mostly-empty server. Once you get your M4, then it's only a matter of pimping out your gun with shiny attachments.

At this point, the game begins to lose its charm. Out of boredom, and on the top of the food chain, it's only natural that many people will either stop playing -- or go around and KOS anybody they find. Once you have a bag of beans and an M4, the game ceases to be a challenge, and tends to devolve into straight-up PvP.

We need to slow down gearing up so that it's not solved by a single trip to the airport-mecca. Reducing the spawn-rates of weapons/ammo only, while it sounds good in theory, only rewards the most persistent server hoppers. So what gives?

So here's the idea:

• All "premium" loot is now gated.
• By gated, I mean that very high-end loot is only introduced through a predictable, random rate that cannot be exploited by server-hopping shenanigans. 

How could content be gated?

• Locked caches.
• The really high-end weapon, supply and ammo caches can only be found behind secured armory doors at military locations, lock-boxes in hospitals, stowed away in gun-safes across the countryside, etc.

So how is gated content released into the wild?

• In order to break into locked caches, you need a lockpick. Basically, a key to gated content that is consumed after use.
• Lockpicks, bless them, are randomly scattered across the countryside, and can only be found in non-predictable locations. You cannot farm them!
• This mechanism allows for the unlocking of gated content in a fair, realistic and consistent manner by those who actually play the game over an extended period of time (!!) NOT by server-hopping around loot-rich areas!

You can find lockpicks by looting random buildings (or killing zombies), and by doing so, you're one stop closer to being awesome. Armed with a lockpick, you now have a chance to break into that secured location to grab some of that sweet, sweet loot. Yes please!

 

Remember that you can still get very high-end gear through trade, altruism, banditry and -- yes -- even murder. This just affects the original source of high-end loot. It also goes to say that many lockpicks may be destroyed on the way to their final destination through neglect, PVE, or PVP.

 

Benefits of gated content through consumable keys:

• Deters server-hopping -- to get premium loot at premium locations, you actually have to, you know, explore places and play the game for a bit. You can't just go to one place that spawns the *best* stuff and hop around on nearly-empty servers after restart. You have to actually spend some time playing the game, and -- with a little bit of luck and looting -- find some random drops, then collect your reward.

   

• Gives the game developers the ability to easily manipulate the rate at which high-end content is introduced.

   

• Maintains the realism (and fun!) of obtaining specialized gear from specialized locations. You *could* just have completely randomized spawns, and gate the content that way, but that ends up being very unrealistic (military-grade weapons spawning on kitchen tables doesn't quite appeal to me).

   

• Slows down the "gearing up" process considerably.

   

• Still maintains a degree of luck.

   

• Rewards the killing of zombies.

   

• Rewards going into places that typically spawn "meh" loot. You never know which place may have a lockpick! Find one and it's payday! Gives you a reason to actually go into those cabins that never spawn loot (Rocket, if you're reading this, cabins don't spawn loot. It feels to me like you're not aware of this at all).

   

• Gives people a reason to visit certain locations in the game. Want boss medical supplies? Locked cabinet in the hospital. Want fantastic police-themed gear? Locked room in the police station. Military weapons more your style? Armory at the military locations. Prefer premium hunting gear? Locked gun-safes in certain buildings. And so on and so forth.

   

BONUS! You can also have a percentage-based chance to succeed, based on the condition of the lockpicks. Tying the condition of lockpicks to the chance of success may entice banditry over KOS, as murder could ruin the lockpicks. Read this and weep:

• Ruined: 0% chance to succeed
• Badly damaged: 25% chance to succeed
• Damaged: 50% chance to succeed
• Worn:  75% chance to succeed
• Pristine: 100% chance to succeed

Comments and criticism all welcome, your reward being a can of beans. TAKE IT.

 

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Edit: Lockpicks should, obviously, be destroyed with use. Thank you Zhrike for pointing this out.

Edit: Instead of having locked rooms, there should be safes in unlocked rooms. This would prevent people from exploiting the system by server-hopping into a locked room. Thank you Dekartz for pointing this out.

 

Edit: Yes, these are randomly scattered -- no particular place spawns them. They could potentially be spread out by making them random zombie drops, or if it's feasible, random across every potential spawning point.

End game:

Gearing up has nothing to do with the endgame once several key features will be implemented / buffed. Base / vehicle construction and hordes of Z can / will be the main driving factor.

 

Boredom:

Your problem is with the stage of development. Be more patient.

 

Slow gearing:

We dont need solutions to temporary problems.

 

Server hoppers:

What is needed is randomized loot spawn;

Type / Grade / Location and Time should all be variables.

That way nobody knows what will be when or where.

 

Problem solved.

[DTeeee 0]

I like this idea, however i can see that bandits could easily sit round the corner from these loot places waiting for people to unlock them, pick up their gear, and then kill you for it.

 

Pros & Cons really but i good idea to be expanded on.

[AUTRanger 23]

Server hoppers:

What is needed is randomized loot spawn;

Type / Grade / Location and Time should all be variables.

That way nobody knows what will be when or where.

Problem solved.

Full randomized lootspawn is not going to be ingame (thank god) as already disscussed in many other topics (use search function)

[AUTRanger 23]

I like this idea, however i can see that bandits could easily sit round the corner from these loot places waiting for people to unlock them, pick up their gear, and then kill you for it.

Pros & Cons really but i good idea to be expanded on.

Thats gameplay, not a problem

[akafugitive 244]

I like this idea. I think it would go well with my zombies idea. Make the high yield areas a bitch to survive in or atleast taxing on your resources, only worth braving if you have found lock picks.

Zombies thread: http://forums.dayzgame.com/index.php?/topic/171109-gameplay-mechanics-pt2-the-infected/

[Really Old Man 53]

Along with these locked containers (which is an awesome idea and reminds me of Fallout 3), another way to prevent these quick gear ups would be to truly randomize the spawns. I think that having player spawns completely randomized around the map would make gearing up slightly less harder to do. Instead of having all the spawns focused on the east or south coasts, have them focused all over the map.