Premium loot -- A balanced proposal to "gearing up"

[Martmital 436]

Generally speaking, my problem is that gearing up is too exploitable, which in turn leads to gearing up too quickly, which in turn causes the game to become too easy for some, which in turn leads to boredom, which in turn leads to many people to turn to KOS to satiate said boredom (or to tire of the game entirely), which in turn negatively affects the gaming experience for other people who are not playing the KOS game.

 

 

 

So to cure the negative experience of one set of players you wish to nuke the experience of a different set? 

[carcinovich 156]

What exactly was I exaggerating about ?

*Sigh* Saying I'm crying about something, when I'm being critical towards it, is a gross misrepresentation and an exaggeration. If you don't want people to be defensive, don't imply that they're whining -- when in fact they're only offering criticism towards the status quo.

Look, I like you, Skyline-GTR, and I'm not offended. I'm more mature than that ;)  I'm willing to let bygones be bygones. Fair?

Edited February 7, 2014 by carcinovich

[carcinovich 156]

So to cure the negative experience of one set of players you wish to nuke the experience of a different set? 

Not at all. The KOS playstyle always will, and should, exist in DayZ. Not "nuke" the KOS, but to keep it from getting out of hand. It's pretty obvious that the developers seek to *restrain* KOS behavior so that it's not the only experience thrust upon them.

Slowing down progression towards being fully geared up allows for more breathing room for everything else. There's a reason everybody doesn't start with an M4. In my opinion, getting there in an hour through server-hopping shenanigans vastly cheapens the experience for everyone involved.

Edited February 7, 2014 by carcinovich

[SFRGaming 718]

This is a very good concept, but can only be added when all servers get there own database. This is because with majority of the servers on the same database, this allows people to server hop between tons of servers. So all THEY have to do is Lockpick the door to the armory on one server and logout/log in while in the armory, therefore bypassing having to unlock the door every time they join a new server.

[carcinovich 156]

This is a very good concept, but can only be added when all servers get there own database. This is because with majority of the servers on the same database, this allows people to server hop between tons of servers. So all THEY have to do is Lockpick the door to the armory on one server and logout/log in while in the armory, therefore bypassing having to unlock the door every time they join a new server.

Hi! I edited the original post earlier today, because someone mentioned that previously. This is what I wrote:

"Instead of having locked rooms, there should be safes in unlocked rooms. This would prevent people from exploiting the system by server-hopping into a locked room. Thank you Dekartz for pointing this out."

[Martmital 436]

Not at all. The KOS playstyle always will, and should, exist in DayZ. Not "nuke" the KOS, but to keep it from getting out of hand. It's pretty obvious that the developers seek to *restrain* KOS behavior so that it's not the only experience thrust upon them.

Slowing down progression towards being fully geared up allows for more breathing room for everything else. There's a reason everybody doesn't start with an M4. In my opinion, getting there in an hour through server-hopping shenanigans vastly cheapens the experience for everyone involved.

 

Cheapens the experience for the player doing it in my opinion more so than anyone else.  I like the idea of having locked areas, but wouldn't want to see all end game gear under 'lock and key'.  .  

[carcinovich 156]

Cheapens the experience for the player doing it in my opinion more so than anyone else.  I like the idea of having locked areas, but wouldn't want to see all end game gear under 'lock and key'.  .  

I understand, and at first neither did I... But I honestly cannot think of an alternative solution that wouldn't be exploited by server-hopping onto empty or nearly empty servers  :(

 

By playing the game, end-game content is slowly unlocked. Literally :)

Edited February 7, 2014 by carcinovich

[Martmital 436]

I'm just gonna wait until they have done more work on loot respawn till I take a definitive stand on ways to combat server hopping.  

[skyline-gtr 130]

Are you suggesting that you were not exaggerating in your OP at some points ?

[Lidskjalf 132]

Generally speaking, my problem is that gearing up is too exploitable, which in turn leads to gearing up too quickly, which in turn causes the game to become too easy for some, which in turn leads to boredom, which in turn leads to many people to turn to KOS to satiate said boredom (or to tire of the game entirely), which in turn negatively affects the gaming experience for other people who are not playing the KOS game.

And I don't believe that people should be able to just bee-line it for the airports and militarize up in hours (as opposed to days), thus turning this game into Call of Duty in no-time-flat. Maybe that's just my opinion?

 

I completely agree with you Carcinovich.  The lowering of weapon spawns -- if you have played since day of launch -- you can see how the recent patches really never made a difference in stopping server-hopping nor bee-lining to the airfields/tents for "all teh gud lootz".  If anything it made it more daunting for people who want that gear to exploit server hopping and farm all the servers on their favorite's list, and as you said, leaves the legitimate players dried out of gear.

 

Lotta locksmiths in the land of Chernarus?

 

It's just far more simple to make it so that any loot can spawn anywhere. That alone is enough to force people into really exploring the map and getting people out of their loot-run patterns. Because that's the real issue, you know exactly what you can or can't find in a certain area after only playing the game for a short time. When you run into the piano building, if you don't see ammo or a gun on the shelf by the stairs, you instantly know there is no point in searching the rest of the building cause you wont find it anywhere else. I just feel that we the players, are late to the game. Chernarus lost. People died here and there and everywhere, turned, got up and left their goody bags behind.

 

On the flip side, I'm all for locked doors and containers that require you to find a way in, but you shouldn't already know what is waiting for you inside.

 

I agree very strongly with this comment, because the issue at hand is really the loot distribution and randomization throughout the entire map.  Every building, small or large should have a small slight chance that it will spawn rifles, pistols, ammo, etc.  Right now you can go into certain buildings, as JubeiDOK stated: "When you run into the piano building, if you don't see ammo or a gun on the shelf by the stairs, you instantly know there is no point in searching the rest of the building cause you wont find it anywhere else."   and find absolutely nothing.  Spawns need to be straightened out, big time.

 

That right there is a problem with loot.  There definitely should be more locations for possible loot spawns, and complete randomization (to proper authenticity) would bring the element of "scavenging" back somewhat.  Like having items spawning on top of the fire-hall roof top areas, I thought that was great when that patch was implemented in the mod.  It's definitely going to be the little things that are going to make or break DayZ.

Edited March 8, 2014 by Lidskjalf

[Element47 2480]

i absolutely agree that gearing up is too fast, too easy at current stage. but it has to be, as people need to be outfitted to mass-test the various mechanics and identify issues in a timeframe as short as possible. by this, obviously, the gameplay gets skewed, so i think its not entirely correct to judge it based upon current situation. i am convinced, that current loot spawn rate, its distribution, rarity of specific items and their impact on the overall gameplay are in no way indicative of the finished gameplay.

 

that said, I think gated content is a valid approach, and a good suggestion, that should definitely be considered - and your suggestion of safes and lockpicks/keys is great in my opinion.

 

 

but there is still so much to come.

dean stated once, that he wants guns to be rare. if a player finds his first gun finally, it needs to feel like an achievement. i really hope he mmanages to achieve that.

 

also, there will be key elements beyond personal equipment added to the game at a later stage. Dean stated in the last reddit AMA, that maintaining an advanced vehicle like a heli or maintaining a power station will be a complex and daunting task. add to that, that food aquisition will shift from collecting tins to hunting and harvesting, thus changing the map dynamic in favor of uninhabitated areas, and the planned exposure system inspired by the Frostfall mod, which might give another dimension to actually surviving in the open

 

so to sum it up, i think we havent seen much of what is going to constitue end-game yet - or more broadly phrased, what would be the pursuable goals in the game. but locked containers with high-quality loot should not be difficult to implement while at the same time adding true value to the gameplay, so you have my vote for that :)

 

 

oh, and one final, personal note:

When you run into the piano building, if you don't see ammo or a gun on the shelf by the stairs, you instantly know there is no point in searching the rest of the building cause you wont find it anywhere else.

i go to the piano buildings for books alone, so there is always a point to searching it. ;)

[liquidcactus 719]

very good idea.. something else to add to it could be a zombie in the area is holding a key.. 1 key and 1 only.. or perhaps 2 ? because apparently theres going to be alot of zombies when they are ready. Anyway.. obviously a military zombie or if we could have police stations with locked weapons cabinets a police officer zombie is holding a key and you want to keep a sharp eye for this specific zombie when you are in a town.

 

Good ideas from good people.. good on us.

[simplicity 22]

very good idea.. something else to add to it could be a zombie in the area is holding a key.. 1 key and 1 only.. or perhaps 2 ? because apparently theres going to be alot of zombies when they are ready. Anyway.. obviously a military zombie or if we could have police stations with locked weapons cabinets a police officer zombie is holding a key and you want to keep a sharp eye for this specific zombie when you are in a town.

 

Good ideas from good people.. good on us.

Idk, but wasting your time looking for a special zombie with a key, which may be dead already anyway (eg., someone sniped it from the distance and didn't bother to loot), doesn't sound smart.

Why bother looking for a zombie with a key when you have axe, saw or gun in your inventory? DayZ is all about survival, so no quests "Find zombie with a key in Balota", "Find 4 digit vault code" please. DayZ is not a World of Warcraft or AION.

[Element47 2480]

Idk, but wasting your time looking for a special zombie with a key, which may be dead already anyway (eg., someone sniped it from the distance and didn't bother to loot), doesn't sound smart.

Why bother looking for a zombie with a key when you have axe, saw or gun in your inventory? DayZ is all about survival, so no quests "Find zombie with a key in Balota", "Find 4 digit vault code" please. DayZ is not a World of Warcraft or AION.

 

its not different than "looking for a special house with object XY", or "Search for 3x object X, 8x object Y and 12x object Z to repair Vehicle A". Long-term goals are planned in anyway. Such gameplay mechanics are by no means exclusive to fantasy MMORPGs.

[overdosed (DayZ) 77]

I can see this working only as an interesting "edngame" addition to the normal ways of obtaining gear. As the game progresses loot will be considerably reduced all over the board and gearing up will become harder and harder, but youll still be able to find some stuff spread around the map in their respective matching locations. Guns you find around the map should be generally in poor condition with only luck on your side helping you to find something thats not broken. And heres where the locked places come in - the chance of finding a gun there is much higher, the chance of that gun being in good condition is also much higher, and lastly the chance of said gun being "top tier" is also higher. Same goes with ammo quantity and condition. 

 

Again its a good idea but it should be implemented as an addition to other ways of obtaining gear. 

[simplicity 22]

its not different than "looking for a special house with object XY", or "Search for 3x object X, 8x object Y and 12x object Z to repair Vehicle A". Long-term goals are planned in anyway. Such gameplay mechanics are by no means exclusive to fantasy MMORPGs.

It's obvious that you will search garages and wrecked cars for spare parts, couldn't be less obvious that guns would be easier found in military objects, prisons, police stations and hunting shops. It still remains a mystery for me why would you need some treasure chests in game.

 

With respawn implemented, game could be easily renamed to "Treasure Hunter". Running around for hours to get some lockpicks and then server hopping to find an unopened treasure chest. My in-game character is 5 days old, has Mosin with PU scope, orange backpack, red hoodie, fireaxe and biker helmet painted in black. Haven't been to NW Airport yet, but already found and left two pristine ballistic helmets, couple M4s.

My point is, if you limit your gameplay only to obtaining military gear, you're playing wrong game. You can run around with your shining ultra rare M4, but there always may be someone who wants it more. I still remember the guy with a beret and fancy pimped up M4 with all kinds of attachment, who got a bullet to his back from an unscoped mosin. (I wanted his fancy M4 so badly :D )

Edited February 7, 2014 by Simplicity

[darkmaniak 0]

guns in military bunkers only, fill them with zombies, watch 20 people (cooperation game issue solved) with axes killing 100 zombies to reach the weapons safe while healing the injured friends......

 

 

watch 19 players with axes chasing the guy who looted the only gun in the safe  :lol:

Edited February 8, 2014 by darkmaniak

[carcinovich 156]

I edited the OP rather extensively to clarify a few things, and explain gating content in more detail (and why I believe it's necessary).

[jubeidok 495]

 

 

oh, and one final, personal note:

i go to the piano buildings for books alone, so there is always a point to searching it. ;)

 

I don't know what you think you're proving with that statement other than you go to a specific building to find a specific item. Which is in turn, the point being made.

Edited February 8, 2014 by JubeiDOK

[ReddogTn 3]

good idea,

 

However, handguns/residential guns should still appear in residential areas. This should only affect military grade guns.

Agree! As well make the spot for the loot meaning the lock spot you are talking about random. So as 1 guy talking about people waiting to stab you in the back will have a hard time finding it.. But I love the idea.. all in all. Agree 100% gear up game over so pvp only thing left. Which makes everbody dicks.And server hoping is a problem as well. That would help. Not solve both issue's but help. Love to see that in the game. U got my beans.

[Zezoku 3]

This is a decent idea, although a bit unrealistic for a few reasons. A real lock can be picked with a variety of objects such as bobby pins, a piece of wire, etc. in addition to a conventional lockpick, so having this magical lockpick that randomly spawns be the only way to open a lock does not make much sense, not to mention the fact that you can skip picking the lock entirely by breaking the lock off with various tools, busting the door down, breaking in through the window, and so on. The idea that the lockpick is a one time use item is also completely unrealistic because a real lockpick could potentially be used multiple times without breaking, especially in skilled hands.

Like others have said, having these locked containers be the only place to acquire "premium" gear is also completely unrealistic. The reason being again, in real life, there are plenty of people who would have their weapons/ammo/etc. out and ready to defend themselves because of the, you know, zombie apocalypse that's going down, or just because they didn't bother to lock it up in the first place; the former being true for the military as well. It would be more realistic to have some unopened lockboxes/vaults, which can be picked or broken open, of course. Don't forget that some people sleep with a gun under their pillow, some people keep a rifle nearby, whatever. People even collect lockpicks, so finding multiple of them in one location would be perfectly realistic.

[basinox 300]

^ adding to this. It would be realistic to find some crates in both warehouses and barracks with random loot inside (food, soda, ammo, weapons. That kinda stuff.)

[carcinovich 156]

As for realism arguments, you could also add random zombie drops of premium-gear in addition to what I had already suggested. That, or allow for a *very* small possibility that any given loot spawn could spawn premium-gear. The "gated" effect is essentially the same.

I thought this idea was more realistic because it allows for some of this gear to be found in sensible locations. But I honestly would be okay with *any* solution that allows for properly gated premium content. 

[skyline-gtr 130]

You could farm keys then server hop near the safe???

[carcinovich 156]

You could farm keys then server hop near the safe???

You can't "farm" keys without playing the game and getting them in the first place.

 

The cashing out process is incidental as the mechanism for releasing the gated content has already been activated.