Why DayZ is no survival game

[DaveyTheElder 1]

I do not think that this is the direction that Day Z is heading, Alpha or otherwise. Skill Trees are enormously complicated and I doubt that they could be grafted on-top of the existing mechanics. I really don't think anyone at Bohemia has an appetite for this either. It seems clear that the over-arching design aesthetic for Day Z is one of minimalism as an means toward "immersion." Bohemia and Dean Hall are always trying to remove the game, from the game. They don't have health bars, they have text updates on how you feel. Whether Skill trees could be done with this same minimalist aesthetic is up for debate, but in the past, skill trees and skill progression have been part of a very different maximalist design aesthetic that Day Z seems to be a reaction against. 

 

That said, I think you bring up a very interesting point about the effect that Skill trees and player-progression would have in the Day Z mechanics. I had never thought of this before. On the other hand, I had never thought of the lack of attachment to the life of my character to be a problem before. When you say, 

 "

You are Jack, you heard DayZ is a survival game. You start playing it. You find some gear, food and everything you need to survive. You run around in unpopulated areas so you don't get killed. You do that for 5 hours. Boring. Why are you doing it? There is no point is surviving. You decide to go to the coast and experience something exciting.

YOU ARE DEAD.

You respawn.

"

I think you bring up a good point. It is boring to run around the woods and avoid danger, but this problem is not solved by the introduction of skill trees. When I get rich in Day Z, I feel a very strong pull to avoid danger, to hide, play safe, trust no one, and keep all my great gear. The trouble is, this way of playing the game is super boring. Conflict and danger are more interesting than safety and peace. Without getting into WHY this is, or how this could be made better, I just want to point out that the introduction of character progression and skill trees would, as you say, increase the incentive to "play it safe," and "survive," but would not do anything to increase the fun of playing in this manner.

To make survival more fun, so much about DAYZ must be different, that what we are talking about is not how Day Z should be different, but about an entirely different game.

[bunkers 5]

I'm worried the game will turn into just another deathmatch as the loudest players always will shout out for MOAR guns, MOAR military weapons, MOAR automatic weapons. People want granade launchers and machine guns and what not. 

 

Remember deathmatching is probably the most popular game concept there is. Thus, alot of players will be shouting in the forums to make DayZ a deathmatch too.

 

Don't let them.

Edited February 5, 2014 by Bunkers

[skyline-gtr 130]

It's not me who wants that, it's basicly most of the players (in the observable community) who want that. The skillsystem is just one idea of how to change the situation. But we all know (except of you and some others) that the situation needs to change.

 

The reward of real life survival is staying alive. Simple as that. The only way to simulate this is to add character value.

 

Many people do have, but most of the veterans do not fear because they don't give a f*ck about gear anymore. Sure there is some fear, but not the old times. If you have a value that increases by the effort you put in, even a veteran will piss himself if confronted with death.

 

What do you mean, what is my idea for a skill system?

 

All the many posts about skill systems are still available to view. If you think that most of the people are for it then you are deluded.

You want to add character value because you believe it is the only way to simulate the only real life reward of staying alive. However you previously said that real life survival has 3 rewards "real life and there is a reward, progress and a point".

Your next paragraph is then you reading the minds of the community. Thats great you can do that.

 

So, If you have an idea for a skill system, what is it ?

[Martmital 436]

There is no endgame content at the moment.  Nothing to do but run around the map, try out the new items and survive.  Once we have hunting, crafting, base building and vehicles, we will have a reason to try and stay alive.  Only two things should separate our in game characters and they are player skill and gear.  Those of us that have already stayed alive for a long time don't need any more advantages over those that haven't.

[Heiduk 265]

An example in DayZ would be a medical skill. Groups of bandits would simply kidnap freshspawns and use them to level up their medical skill. It makes it no longer about kidnapping someone for a specific reason, or torturing them for psychological reasons, rather it would create a bunch of kidnappings that would simply be a means to leveling up your skill.

 If the game actually developed in this way it would be an extremely authentic result as this is pretty much always what happens historically whenever law and order breaks down. The strong subjugate the weak and put them to work to improve their own position. Think forced labor rather than leveling up skills, but the behavior would be remarkably similar. Certainly this behavior would be much more authentic than just killing everyone they meet.

 

The example of medical skill is a good example because it shows how kidnapping and forcing medical on someone would be extremely beneficial. But, it's entirely restricted to the bandit playstyle. A hero wouldn't be given the same opportunities.

So what? Life, and DayZ, isn't fair. Besides now the heros have a worthy goal: Rescue the poor medical test subjects.

 

Regardless, the game is already heavily skewed in favor of the bandit (mass-murder) playstyle and the minimal inconvenience that death poses is one of the reasons. In the real world most people don't go around killing everyone they meet. Without a respawn button the few people that do tend to have a fairly short life expectancy and often disappear quickly without passing their genetic material on to the next generation. 

[bad_mojo (DayZ) 1204]

You don't want to tell me that you need gear to survive. Get some cans of beans and soda and you are good to go forever. Weapons are entirely optional and only improve your chances for survival.

It's not that I don't like your opinion, it's just that I think many many people dislike the idea of skills just because it sounds like it would turn the game into an RPG. But this is not true at all, as I am trying to tell you.

 

My point was:

Loot is a basic element of the game. Should we remove it because it's exploitable? No.

Skills would be a basic element of the game (if implemented). Should we no include it because it's exploitable? No.

 

Like I said, take the same example with bloodpacks. A hero will never steal blood from freshspawns. It is entirely restricted to the bandit playstyle. It drasticly unbalances the medical loot in the favor of bandits. Currently the game is NOT neutral when it comes to stuff like this. You know why it's not? Because in real life bandits will ALWAYS have the upperhand. It is LIFE. You will not change it. You won't get a millionaire by being nice. You won't survive an apocalypse by being nice. This is what you can choose. Acting by morality or doing whatever it needs to survive. The guy who takes option two is ALWAYS in advantage.

People already abandon their ehtics and make loot their main objective. Don't you see it?

 

Yeah I see that you're trying to tell us we all need to be bandits because that's life. So building a skill system that favors bandits is okay because it's life. You're telling us how to play and wanting to change the game to suit that play style. I don't agree with you.

 

 

 

Anyway, I had a few hours to think about skills and dayz while I was at work. I've come to the conclusion that I don't like a skill system where you have to work towards unlocking a skill. I find that type of a system wouldn't support what I believe dayz is about, basically for the reasons I explained in my other posts.

 

But, I do like the idea of a variation in the players. I think everyone being able to do everything exactly the same, isn't helping to create a living world. I feel like we should all be different in terms of our skills.

 

I think this variation can be accomplished with a specialization system, but instead of acquiring these skills through repetition of actions like you've suggested, we should design our characters before spawning. We would get a number of skill points to divide among the different skill sets. These would be set for the entire life of your character, never changing, never improving.

 

The important part of a system like this would be good balance between the skill sets. For example, if we got 10 skill points to use, it would require 6 points in one skill to (top out &) become a specialist. So you would only be able to specialize in one skill. It would also allow someone to be a jack of all trades and not specialize in any one skill, but have a bit of each.

 

The skill sets I came up with are as follows...

 

-Weapons

-Medical

-Bushcraft

-Mechanical

-Culinary

-Athletic

-Pilot/operator

-Explosives

 

Specializing in a skill set should give you advanced abilities not available to non-specialists. For example, only a medical specialist would be able to perform blood transfusions. But, once the blood has been taken and crafted into an IV bag, he could then give it to anyone to use.

 

Similarly, a bushcraft specialist could take some sticks and rope and craft a bow drill to start fires. A non-specialist wouldn't be able to craft this item, but would still be able to use one. This way, specialists can offer services(or be kidnapped and used) to non-specialists in exchange for something.

 

I think I'm going to create a thread in the suggestions forum and go into more detail and make some pictures, but that's the basic idea of a skill system I could tolerate. What do you think?

 

Edit: Made the suggestion... http://forums.dayzgame.com/index.php?/topic/171505-character-specializations/

Edited February 6, 2014 by bad_mojo

[Demoth 366]

 If the game actually developed in this way it would be an extremely authentic result as this is pretty much always what happens historically whenever law and order breaks down. The strong subjugate the weak and put them to work to improve their own position. Think forced labor rather than leveling up skills, but the behavior would be remarkably similar. Certainly this behavior would be much more authentic than just killing everyone they meet.

 

So what? Life, and DayZ, isn't fair. Besides now the heros have a worthy goal: Rescue the poor medical test subjects.

 

Regardless, the game is already heavily skewed in favor of the bandit (mass-murder) playstyle and the minimal inconvenience that death poses is one of the reasons. In the real world most people don't go around killing everyone they meet. Without a respawn button the few people that do tend to have a fairly short life expectancy and often disappear quickly without passing their genetic material on to the next generation. 

 

Being kidnapped and used as a medical experiment would be incredibly boring for the person being kidnapped. You'd basically be stuck where ever you were taken and then be subjected to repeated transfusions and withdraws? No, I doubt anyone would opt for that and would simply start punching / sprinting for the hills.

 

After everything is said and done, this is still a game. It doesn't have to cater to the COD kiddies and such, but it still has to be fun. In real life when you are knocked unconcious you might go into a coma. If you had to sit in the "You are unconcious" state until either killed or brought back (and logging out kills you) how fun would it be if you had to wait for 3 months to remain in a coma because some asshole player kept force feeding you? It'd be hella realistic, but not fun in the least.

[drewsta 74]

I think it all depends how you personally perceive the game. "It's not a survival game?" Don't tell Rocket, he would be devastated at this breaking news. In all seriousness we are entitled to our argue our personal points and I'm allowed to disagree. What ever happened to self discipline or self challenge? Hells bells, play this game how ever you want but "Oh crap there is half a map between my buddy and I, think I will just climb this tower and suicide" is NOT survival, that's simply giving up and dying. Also "Go ahead and just kill me" doesn't ring any survival instincts either , you see where I'm going with this. I think it's quite ignorant to say that this is not a survival game just because you are too lazy, bored or driven to stay alive and just kill yourself and respawn. Why not take up that challenge to survive a given situation, "stay alive in that area mate, I'm on my way" or try and outwit or plead for your life in a hostage situation, anything to STAY ALIVE or also known as survival. The in game ability to respawn does not mean you have to or should, unless you are a victim of the game itself such as a glitch you cannot escape from.

 

I am also aware that some players simply don't have the time to dedicate to this game like others and will choose to suicide etc in order to save time and have more fun with their buddies. If that's your thing certainly jump off that roof or just die as soon as practical but you still have a choice to keep that character alive. Stating that this is not a survival game is something I choose to disagree with.

[Wayze 549]

All the many posts about skill systems are still available to view. If you think that most of the people are for it then you are deluded.

You want to add character value because you believe it is the only way to simulate the only real life reward of staying alive. However you previously said that real life survival has 3 rewards "real life and there is a reward, progress and a point".

Your next paragraph is then you reading the minds of the community. Thats great you can do that.

 

So, If you have an idea for a skill system, what is it ?

It's simple game design, this is how a human mind works generally:

I play a game to have fun (fun includes accomplishments, reward, expiriences etc.).

 

How do you have fun in games:

Progress (this is where most of the games have their main selling point, i.e. MMORPGS, F2P Games, Mobile Apps...)

Expirience (having something to laugh/cry/be angry about, i.e. trolling others or ruining someones day by killing them, maybe have fun with some friends or having an intense firefight)

 

How do you have fun in DayZ?

Progress: -collecting gear, building houses

Expirience: -interaction with players

Conclusion:

If gear is collected/base is build, only way to have fun is interacting with players.

Most favorable player interaction -> deathmatch

Why?

-> deathmatch brings the most psychological reward, killing other players who compete in the same world is bringing joy (this is something you cannot denie, it may not be the case for everyone, but for most of the players it is)

 

Solutions?

Adding aspects of progress.

-> only way to do it is adding weapons, vehicles etc.

What does that mean? Players demand cooler weapons, more exciting things

-> results in absolute unauthentic worlddesign (military weapons everywhere, planes, helicopters, etc. just to satisfy the human urge for more and more excitement)

 

Additional problems:

-> the more a player has made a certain progress (for example found the best weapon), he will usually be less attracted to the progress

What does that mean for DayZ?

A player who had the best weapons, vehicles etc a thousand times will not care about them anymore

Why? He knows that in the end he collects the weapons to have expirience (progress for expirience), shortcut:

-> collect minimal gear (minimal progress) to reach maximal joy (maximal expirience), meaning simple deathmatch/trolling people

 

Solution?

Try to make gear rare.

-> progress (collecting good loot) is based on pure luck

What effect has luck to a player?

-> in regards of having to have luck to find something that you will lose eventually a player will always choose expirience over luck

Result:

-> deathmatch (reasons where brought before)

-> players stop playing the game

 

You want evidence for all of this? Look at the game. It has nothing to do with the mod, is has absolutly nothing to do with the game being an alpha. It has to do with the CORE concept of the game.

 

Mate, this is science based on statistics, psychology and game design. If you want the game to not be a deathmatch, you simple will need another kind of progression sooner or later.

[DMentMan 707]

[skyline-gtr 130]

Wayze your whole concept is flawed, it is based on your experience only and how you view the world.

Im sorry but not everyone feels the same way.

[Wayze 549]

Wayze your whole concept is flawed, it is based on your experience only and how you view the world.

Im sorry but not everyone feels the same way.

This is too good. I have actually evidence (DayZ Mod, DayZ SA Alpha) and actually argument with common logic and you just tell me "your concept is flawed, you are wrong, idiot". Sorry, but if you have no arguments against any of my points, it will be just an further attempt to basicly say that you don't care what I write. I am pretty sure you didn't even read it with attention. You seem stubborn, not once I saw you arguing against my "concepts" (which are almost "laws" in game design) with other than "You are wrong and your opinion totally just an opinion and you are wrong and nobody sees it lke you because you are wrong. Btw. you are wrong.".

 

Yes, yes. I know. I am wrong. But why? Maybe you can explain to me what is so flawed about the concept of game design rules and human psychology. This is the point of the forum. Making each other understand. Not saying " You are wrong man!". No offense...

Edited February 6, 2014 by Wayze

[skyline-gtr 130]

We have been discussing this at length for many pages. Please refer to my previous posts as to why I feel the way I do.

Your thread title is flawed, it is based on your opinion only but stated as a fact. Also time after time your "common logic" actually makes jumps.

[Wayze 549]

We have been discussing this at length for many pages. Please refer to my previous posts as to why I feel the way I do.

Your thread title is flawed, it is based on your opinion only but stated as a fact. Also time after time your "common logic" actually makes jumps.

My title is actually a way to provocate people like you to read my text. Did work.

 

No, we have not at all talked about this:

 

It's simple game design, this is how a human mind works generally:

I play a game to have fun (fun includes accomplishments, reward, expiriences etc.).

 

How do you have fun in games:

Progress (this is where most of the games have their main selling point, i.e. MMORPGS, F2P Games, Mobile Apps...)

Expirience (having something to laugh/cry/be angry about, i.e. trolling others or ruining someones day by killing them, maybe have fun with some friends or having an intense firefight)

 

How do you have fun in DayZ?

Progress: -collecting gear, building houses

Expirience: -interaction with players

Conclusion:

If gear is collected/base is build, only way to have fun is interacting with players.

Most favorable player interaction -> deathmatch

Why?

-> deathmatch brings the most psychological reward, killing other players who compete in the same world is bringing joy (this is something you cannot denie, it may not be the case for everyone, but for most of the players it is)

 

Solutions?

Adding aspects of progress.

-> only way to do it is adding weapons, vehicles etc.

What does that mean? Players demand cooler weapons, more exciting things

-> results in absolute unauthentic worlddesign (military weapons everywhere, planes, helicopters, etc. just to satisfy the human urge for more and more excitement)

 

Additional problems:

-> the more a player has made a certain progress (for example found the best weapon), he will usually be less attracted to the progress

What does that mean for DayZ?

A player who had the best weapons, vehicles etc a thousand times will not care about them anymore

Why? He knows that in the end he collects the weapons to have expirience (progress for expirience), shortcut:

-> collect minimal gear (minimal progress) to reach maximal joy (maximal expirience), meaning simple deathmatch/trolling people

 

Solution?

Try to make gear rare.

-> progress (collecting good loot) is based on pure luck

What effect has luck to a player?

-> in regards of having to have luck to find something that you will lose eventually a player will always choose expirience over luck

Result:

-> deathmatch (reasons where brought before)

-> players stop playing the game

 

You want evidence for all of this? Look at the game. It has nothing to do with the mod, is has absolutly nothing to do with the game being an alpha. It has to do with the CORE concept of the game.

 

Mate, this is science based on statistics, psychology and game design. If you want the game to not be a deathmatch, you simple will need another kind of progression sooner or later.

over many pages. Actually, I just brought a new viewpoint to the discussion, which was not reviewed before. So just tell me what is so wrong about all of this? I don't get it and I am suprised that a guy, who probably has never designed or developed a game himself, is telling me that I am totally wrong and that everything is just an opinion. I tried to bring logic to the discussion. Something we can base on which is not just an opinion. You cannot denie human psychology and many years of game design.

My recent point is:

Deathmatching is a result of DayZs fundamental concept. And in the last post I tried to explain it to someone who maybe never once had anything to do with game design. It's really not that hard to understand. But maybe there is indeed a mistake in my logic. Just point it out. Don't tell me I have no idea about anything, here you have the perfect chance to prove it.

Edited February 6, 2014 by Wayze

[skyline-gtr 130]

Your logic is flawed and based on your opinion.

 

"How do you have fun in DayZ?

Progress: -collecting gear, building houses

Expirience: -interaction with players"

 

There is no deathmatching in DayZ, i think you misunderstand the concept.

Deathmatching would assume a start point an end point and in DayZ there is no such thing.

[Wayze 549]

Your logic is flawed and based on your opinion.

 

"How do you have fun in DayZ?

Progress: -collecting gear, building houses

Expirience: -interaction with players"

 

There is no deathmatching in DayZ, i think you misunderstand the concept.

Deathmatching would assume a start point an end point and in DayZ there is no such thing.

Are you kidding me? Seriously? You gotta be trolling me.

 

You know exactly what I meant by deathmatching:

People go around shoot each other for fun.

This is deathmatching. Shooting each other because of fun, not to survive.

 

I think you just try to make me sound like an idiot, but in fact you don't even get the meaning of "deathmatching". And people expect me to take them serious... :lol:

[Judopunch 523]

Are you kidding me? Seriously? You gotta be trolling me.

 

You know exactly what I meant by deathmatching:

People go around shoot each other for fun.

This is deathmatching. Shooting each other because of fun, not to survive.

 

I think you just try to make me sound like an idiot, but in fact you don't even get the meaning of "deathmatching". And people expect me to take them serious... :lol:

Err... No thats assassinating. Death-match has instant re-spawn, a score is kept, and is usually found in twitch firstperson shooters.

[Wayze 549]

Err... No thats assassinating. Death-match has instant re-spawn, a score is kept, and is usually found in twitch firstperson shooters.

I don't think you are around here a long time. You know, people call the situation that players kill each other for fun in DayZ "deathmatching". Is it that hard to realise that words can have more than one meaning? Seriously?

 

And EVEN IF. You know EXACTLY what I meant by deathmatching. The fact that you take words and try to give them another meaning than I have intended, is showing me that you have no arguments at all against any of my "flawed" logic that is "based" on my opinion.

Edited February 6, 2014 by Wayze

[Element47 2481]

It's simple game design, this is how a human mind works generally:

I play a game to have fun (fun includes accomplishments, reward, expiriences etc.).

 

How do you have fun in games:

Progress (this is where most of the games have their main selling point, i.e. MMORPGS, F2P Games, Mobile Apps...)

Expirience (having something to laugh/cry/be angry about, i.e. trolling others or ruining someones day by killing them, maybe have fun with some friends or having an intense firefight)

 

How do you have fun in DayZ?

Progress: -collecting gear, building houses

Expirience: -interaction with players

Conclusion:

If gear is collected/base is build, only way to have fun is interacting with players.

Most favorable player interaction -> deathmatch

Why?

-> deathmatch brings the most psychological reward, killing other players who compete in the same world is bringing joy (this is something you cannot denie, it may not be the case for everyone, but for most of the players it is)

 

Solutions?

Adding aspects of progress.

-> only way to do it is adding weapons, vehicles etc.

What does that mean? Players demand cooler weapons, more exciting things

-> results in absolute unauthentic worlddesign (military weapons everywhere, planes, helicopters, etc. just to satisfy the human urge for more and more excitement)

 

Additional problems:

-> the more a player has made a certain progress (for example found the best weapon), he will usually be less attracted to the progress

What does that mean for DayZ?

A player who had the best weapons, vehicles etc a thousand times will not care about them anymore

Why? He knows that in the end he collects the weapons to have expirience (progress for expirience), shortcut:

-> collect minimal gear (minimal progress) to reach maximal joy (maximal expirience), meaning simple deathmatch/trolling people

 

Solution?

Try to make gear rare.

-> progress (collecting good loot) is based on pure luck

What effect has luck to a player?

-> in regards of having to have luck to find something that you will lose eventually a player will always choose expirience over luck

Result:

-> deathmatch (reasons where brought before)

-> players stop playing the game

 

You want evidence for all of this? Look at the game. It has nothing to do with the mod, is has absolutly nothing to do with the game being an alpha. It has to do with the CORE concept of the game.

 

Mate, this is science based on statistics, psychology and game design. If you want the game to not be a deathmatch, you simple will need another kind of progression sooner or later.

RNG (means luck) based loot is a much stronger motivator than skill progression. this concept is why diablo and wow have sustained millions of players over many years, games in which skill progression is merely a temporary mean to access more advanced RNG loot mechanics. that is the reason why people gamble. this is the reason why las vegas casinos are more attractive than savings banks.

players will always choose RNG above pure skill. they will bitch when they loose against the odds, but they will keep playing, because the thrill of finally winning is a strong drive, and the feeling of accomplishment when finally winning the dice roll is so incredibly rewarding.

Edited February 6, 2014 by e47

[skyline-gtr 130]

Are you kidding me? Seriously? You gotta be trolling me.

 

You know exactly what I meant by deathmatching:

People go around shoot each other for fun.

This is deathmatching. Shooting each other because of fun, not to survive.

 

I think you just try to make me sound like an idiot, but in fact you don't even get the meaning of "deathmatching". And people expect me to take them serious... :lol:

 

 

Sorry but if you meant something else you should have said something else.

I have explained why there is no deathmatching in DayZ.

The clue is in the word dude, MATCH.

Edited February 6, 2014 by Skyline-GTR

[Wayze 549]

RNG (means luck) based loot is a much stronger motivator than skill progression. this concept is why diablo and wow have sustained millions of players over many years, games in which skill progression is merely a temporary mean to access more advanced RNG loot mechanics. that is the reason why people gamble. this is the reason why las vegas casinos are more attractive than savings banks.

players will always choose RNG above pure skill. they will bitch when they loose against the odds, but they will keep playing, because the thrill of finally winning is a string drive, and the feeling of accomplishment when finally winning the dice roll is so incredibly rewarding.

Yes. But you forgot the aspect of permadeath. With permadeath and constantly losing your progress a player tends to give no f*ck about the loot, after he had it a view times. And it's not like you can find a super strong and super rare (like in EVE online, but even there it's not based on luck) weapon in DayZ, this concept just doesn't work. Diablo is a RPG, not a survival game where the best you can find is maybe a DMR, which you will lose eventually.

 

But usually I agree. RNG is a stronger motivator than skill progression, in games like Diablo. Skills are something you cannot loose, they are something constant. You put certain effort in and you are garantueed to have success which you will not lose. A system which gives you things based on luck is way more attractive in that matter.

 

 

 

Sorry but if you meant something else you should have said something else.

I have explained why there is no deathmatching in DayZ.

The clue is in the word dude, MATCH.

It is a commonly used word in the DayZ community. Don't try to reinvent the f*cking wheel. But as we have this misunderstanding put aside. What is so flawed about my logic?

Edited February 6, 2014 by Wayze

[skyline-gtr 130]

No need to get angry dude. Its not your fault for thinking of the correct use of the word.

[Wayze 549]

No need to get angry dude. Its not your fault for thinking of the correct use of the word.

Alright, let's get back to the actuall topic.

 

What is wrong about this:

 

It's simple game design, this is how a human mind works generally:

I play a game to have fun (fun includes accomplishments, reward, expiriences etc.).

 

How do you have fun in games:

Progress (this is where most of the games have their main selling point, i.e. MMORPGS, F2P Games, Mobile Apps...)

Expirience (having something to laugh/cry/be angry about, i.e. trolling others or ruining someones day by killing them, maybe have fun with some friends or having an intense firefight)

 

How do you have fun in DayZ?

Progress: -collecting gear, building houses

Expirience: -interaction with players

Conclusion:

If gear is collected/base is build, only way to have fun is interacting with players.

Most favorable player interaction -> deathmatch

Why?

-> deathmatch brings the most psychological reward, killing other players who compete in the same world is bringing joy (this is something you cannot denie, it may not be the case for everyone, but for most of the players it is)

 

Solutions?

Adding aspects of progress.

-> only way to do it is adding weapons, vehicles etc.

What does that mean? Players demand cooler weapons, more exciting things

-> results in absolute unauthentic worlddesign (military weapons everywhere, planes, helicopters, etc. just to satisfy the human urge for more and more excitement)

 

Additional problems:

-> the more a player has made a certain progress (for example found the best weapon), he will usually be less attracted to the progress

What does that mean for DayZ?

A player who had the best weapons, vehicles etc a thousand times will not care about them anymore

Why? He knows that in the end he collects the weapons to have expirience (progress for expirience), shortcut:

-> collect minimal gear (minimal progress) to reach maximal joy (maximal expirience), meaning simple deathmatch/trolling people

 

Solution?

Try to make gear rare.

-> progress (collecting good loot) is based on pure luck

What effect has luck to a player?

-> in regards of having to have luck to find something that you will lose eventually a player will always choose expirience over luck

Result:

-> deathmatch (reasons where brought before)

-> players stop playing the game

 

You want evidence for all of this? Look at the game. It has nothing to do with the mod, is has absolutly nothing to do with the game being an alpha. It has to do with the CORE concept of the game.

 

Mate, this is science based on statistics, psychology and game design. If you want the game to not be a deathmatch, you simple will need another kind of progression sooner or later.

Edited February 6, 2014 by Wayze

[Element47 2481]

Yes. But you forgot the aspect of permadeath. With permadeath and constantly losing your progress a player tends to give no f*ck about the loot

 

Permadeath does not invalidate RNG looters. Permadeath just makes it more valuable. there are millions of hardcore characters in D3, and yet statistics show, that over half of the pearmadead characters in D3 made it to the level cap of level 60 in their quest for moar epix. (source). Losing a lvl60 epicly geared character in D3 bears definitely more gravity than losing a geared up toon in DayZ, be it mod or SA.

Edited February 6, 2014 by e47

[skyline-gtr 130]

Wayze, like i said, it makes several assumptions and jumps in logic.